kola oloye:

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3[b] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [/b]

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs,
and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

WERE IS THE WORD SUN AND STAR WRITTEN ON THOSE CREATION.

4 Him:

Samba, you brought the accusation . . . it is up to you to prove it.

Let's investigate this claim. We will go through six major translations of the bible, and look at what's actually written in Leviticus Chapter 11.

First, the New International Version (NIV).

20 All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you.
21 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.
22 Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.
23 But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest.


Next, the New American Standard Bible (NASB).

20 "All the winged insects* that walk on all fours are detestable to you.
21 "Yet these you may eat among all the winged insects which walk on all fours: those which have above their feet jointed legs with which to jump on the earth.
22 "These of them you may eat: the locust in its kinds, and the devastating locust in its kinds, and the cricket in its kinds, and the grasshopper in its kinds.
23 "But all other winged insects which are four-footed are detestable to you.

* Footnote with the literal translation as "Swarming things with wings".


Next, the Young's Literal Translation (YLT) Bible:

20 Every teeming creature which is flying, which is going on four -- an abomination it [is] to you.
21 Only -- this ye do eat of any teeming thing which is flying, which is going on four, which hath legs above its feet, to move with them on the earth;
22 these of them ye do eat: the locust after its kind, and the bald locust after its kind, and the beetle after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind;
23 and every teeming thing which is flying, which hath four feet -- an abomination it [is] to you.


And NEXT, the Revised Standard Version (RSV)

20 All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you.
21 Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those which have legs above their feet, with which to leap on the earth.
22 Of them you may eat: the locust according to its kind, the bald locust according to its kind, the cricket according to its kind, and the grasshopper according to its kind.
23 But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination to you.


And next is the Darby Version:

20 Every winged crawling thing that goeth upon all four shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these shall ye eat of every winged crawling thing that goeth upon all four: those which have legs above their feet with which to leap upon the earth.
22 These shall ye eat of them: the arbeh after its kind, and the solam after its kind, and the hargol after its kind, and the hargab after its kind.
23 But every winged crawling thing that hath four feet shall be an abomination unto you.


And finally, the King James Version (KJV):

20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.


Some apologists insist that the King James Version's "fowls" implies that they are speaking about birds. But anyone can clearly see, by looking at it "in context", reading the surrounding verses, that this is not the case. But EVEN IF they are right and the bible is talking about birds, there still aren't any birds with 4 legs.

No claim can henceforth be made that the bible is "inerrant", or without mistakes. But the more one reads the bible, the more it is clear that this error is only one of countless others.

Reading the quoran should not be cause doubt, fear nor much concern. actually a dispassionate reading of the
book would serve more to strenghten your convictions as a christian as the quoran is, to a greater extent, a confirmation of the truth(s) evident in he Bible. It is Quite Safe.

samba123:


WERE IS THE WORD SUN AND STAR WRITTEN ON THOSE CREATION.

Genesis 1 vs 16
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day,
and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The greater light to rule the day is the sun.The lesser light to rule the night is the moon.
As you can see from the text, star was also mentioned.

There is nothing wrong with reading the Quran. However you have to read it without a biased mind. The truth of the matter is there is no where in the Quran that quotes anything bad about Jesus and Mary.
Lets try not to deviate from the poster's question? There is no point biting at anybody's religion. You have your religion, i have mine. You practice your religion and i'll practice mine. Funny that is from the Quran?

Well I wouldn't refer to it as the great book but its an "interesting" book. I wish others take the time to read it.

Cayon:

Well I wouldn't refer to it as the great book but its an "interesting" book. I wish others take the time to read it.

Yeah, but not only interesting but very(2X) unique. It focuses on subjects concerning human nature. God knows the human psycology. That's why the critics of the Ko'ran are stuck dumb because of the answers it gives. No matter what a disbeliever thinks of concerning the book, he is just confused!

Now, do you believe it is Muhamm'ed that just sat down, studied the Bible and then wrote the Ko'ran?
To find it more interesting, you can even listen to the Ko'ran with English spoken with a Western English accent(American) following the famous Musl'im convert translator's work: Muhamm'ed Murkmadu Pickthall. He is the best translator though Yusuf Ali is usually accepted to be the most accepted because a Non-Mu'slim can understand.

If you're interested in getting te 31-CD translation spoken by Azhar Asalam or have a question concerning the Ko'ran, email me:[email]femisalawudeen@yahoo.co.uk[/email].

I assume you want to know the truth and not that you wish to critise the book's nobility.

Yes, ! Its good for you and all for us to read the any books of religion and faith, good knowledge , find more things, feeling more things , it will very good for us.

niman

@samba123,

samba123:

But EVEN IF they are right and the bible is talking about birds, there still aren't any birds with 4 legs.

I don't think the verses you were quoting said anything about any birds with 4 legs - unless you deliberately wanted to force that idea in order to make your point sound intelligent when it is obviously unfounded.

Just an asides, in other to make categorical statements that are half intelligent, a simple thing would have been for you to make a careful search. Sample these -

samba123:

No claim can henceforth be made that the bible is "inerrant", or without mistakes. But the more one reads the bible, the more it is clear that this error is only one of countless others.

In the same way, you cannot hold that the Qu''ran is "inerrant". What is typical of you gentlemen is make a very unfounded assumption that the TRANSLATIONS of the Bible therefore renders the Bible itself as a book with errors.

Translations are many - for both the Bible and the Qu''ran; and these translations are all saying different things.

The KJV, NIV, Amp, NASB, etc are all translations and versions which may render certain verses in different ways. Does that in itself mean that the Bible is faulted on those various translations?

In the same way, there are very many translations of the Qur''an -
   Hilali-Khan
   Shakir
   Picthall
   NJ Dawood
   Arberry
   SherAli
   YusufAli
. . . etc - and they are all saying very different things in so many verses. Can we also apply the same rule you used for the Bible and then claim that the errors in those Qur''ans render the Qur''an itself as a book of errors?

Why do many mus.lims make this childish mistake of assuming that "TRANSLATION" errors must be taken as the "errors of the Bible"? And why are they also scared to apply that same rule to their own TRANSLATED 'Qur''an'?

samba123, do not assume these silly games. Recently, someone showed me a video where one mus.lim apologist attempted to use that gimmick. Before he got half way, the audience was already laughing at him! His Christian discussant/debater produced a huge list drawn up from more than 46 popular English translations of the Qur''an and asked him a simple question - "Shall I read you the same errors in your Qur''an?" I was amazed that the mus.lim gentleman was silent all through. I am still seeking that clip, when I find it, I'll send it to you.

Please do not make such silly games. TRANSLATIONS do not render the Bible itself as false. That would be saying even worse in your own case for the Qur''an.

More like u implyin . . . .  is it safe for a Mus-lim to read the Bible . . . .  "What does Safe Mean?"

They ask you (O The Great Prophet) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: ‘In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit’” [al-Baqarah 2:219]

So basically God is saying If sin is present and it is great, then it is forbidden. Undoubtedly this alcohol is harmful to the mind and body, and Allaah has forbidden everything that harms the body and mind, and saps the strength. Everything that is harmful to a person is not permitted

between, is drinking wine a sin?

here is a Bible scripture on alchohol

Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

@Cayon: Do you read english? Is it not clear that in alcohol there are many sins/great sins (eg, an afrodesiac for sexual pervertion and ludeness, including (the expression of talking like a drunk?). Is this not very clear.

But in the Bible, some say that drinking a little is for the malady of the stomach. The catholic uses for sacrement or whatever. Didn't Jesus present some at the last supper? Didn't Jesus manufacture some at a wedding and let the booze flow, even much more for those who are already drunk even before this?

Please don't cheapen the Q.ur'a.n by equating it with the Bible! Puleeeeease, New Yorker.

@Syrup:

Please do not make such silly games. TRANSLATIONS do not render the Bible itself as false. That would be saying even worse in your own case for the Qur''an.

Its surprising that you could mistake English translation of the Q.ur'a.n as the Qu.r'an. It is not possible because as you know, Yusuf Is.lam (formerly Rocker Cat Stevens), does not read the Qu.r'an in English, when he makes his Is.lam.ic prayers. The Q.ur'a.n is only in the language that one can read it in, during prayers. Only in Arabic! Get it.

And if I were in England, when the above quote of varied English translation of the Q.ur'an was alluded to, i would have educated the British public about what Q.ur'a.n is and what is not Q.ur'an.

Let me tell you, Ethiopia which has experienced as earlier than Madina, they do not read Q.ur'an in Hamhari language. How then, England/ or the whole of English can even think they know anything about what makes Qu.r'a.n, in language.

@ alobowale:

Bible scholars have claimed that the wine of the Old and New Testaments was simply grape juice.

Good Hebrew wine (strong drink) was made from dates which was extremely strong.  They also used dates to make vinegar, hence the bible scripture about wine/vinegar

In those days there were two kind of wines, One that was made out of pure grape juice (the one that Jesus drank) and the Hebrew wine that was made from dates/vinegar (the one that Jesus refused at the cross).

1 Corinthians 11:23-26 clearly teaches that real wine should be used in communion and I think that's why some churches use Ribena for communion.  Now don't get me wrong, there are some churches out there that use fermented wine (strong drink)

So from my personal opinion, al-Baqarah 2:219 reminds me of Numbers 6:3.  That is - Stay away from alchohol.

Re your question:
Didn't Jesus manufacture some at a wedding and[b] let the booze flow, even much more for those who are already drunk even before this[/b]?

Please don't cheapen the Bible with your silly interpretation! Puleeeeease, New Yorker,eeerrrr City guy

Peace

@Cayon: You live in the city. Whichever Borough, it does not matter. You should be able to find a Mosque where you can find out if Mu.sl.im are permissable to drink or not. You will find that it is not permissable to drink any alcoholic drink, strong or weak.

And I wonder how the christians drink so much like Bumble bees, unless you find some permissability in the Bible for it. Further, to begin selling me about the concortions that the Israelites produced as nonalcoholic is ridiculous. Go to Eastern Parkway, Borough Park, where you will find Jews. Go to their sedahs. You come back and tell me if they do not get drunk. The christians also do it, as well. Your excuse should be restructured/repackaged.

I think you overstood me.  I am not doubting that Jews, M.uslims and "Christians" get drunk. 

Matthew 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

A true Christian should NOT drink alchohol and the same goes towards M.uslims.

I think the Quoran is contradicting.  What is your interpretation of these vs

"And do not kill yourselves” [al-Nisaa’ 4:29]
“and do not throw yourselves into destruction” [al-Baqarah 2:195]

And why should I go to a Mosque, when I can learn from you.  What say you

Peace

olabowale:

@Cayon: You live in the city. Whichever Borough, it does not matter. You should be able to find a Mosque where you can find out if Mu.sl.im are permissable to drink or not. You will find that it is not permissable to drink any alcoholic drink, strong or weak.

And I wonder how the christians drink so much like Bumble bees, unless you find some permissability in the Bible for it. Further, to begin selling me about the concortions that the Israelites produced as nonalcoholic is ridiculous. Go to Eastern Parkway, Borough Park, where you will find Jews. Go to their sedahs. You come back and tell me if they do not get drunk. The christians also do it, as well. Your excuse should be restructured/repackaged.

@Cayon: If Al.lah wills, you will learn. I pray that whatever you learn will be a guidance for you. I pray that when guidance comes, your heart and soul will accept it. i pray that you will not reject guidance. Amin.

I still stand that reading the Qu'ran will strengthen your belief as a Christian

@Cayon

They ask you (O The Great Prophet) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: ‘In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit’” [al-Baqarah 2:219]

So basically God is saying If sin is present and it is great, then it is forbidden. Undoubtedly this alcohol is harmful to the mind and body, and Allaah has forbidden everything that harms the body and mind, and saps the strength. Everything that is harmful to a person is not permitted

between, is drinking wine a sin?

here is a Bible scripture on alchohol

Numbers 6:3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

What kind of half bake information is this? Why not grab the Qur'an and read for understanding rather than picking just a verse in which you lack understanding?

Qur'an 2 v 219:  "They question thee about alcoholic drink and games of chance; say: In both there is great sin and certain profits for man, yet the sin of them is greater than their usefulness."

Qur'an 4 v43:  "O ye who believe! Draw not near unto service of worship when ye are drunk, till ye know that which ye utter . . ."

Finally Qur'an 5 v 90-94): "O' you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, Al-A nsab, and Al-Azlam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Satan's handiwork So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful. Satan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God and from prayers. So will you not then abstain? And obey God and the Messenger, and beware (of even coming near to drinking, or gambling, or Al-Ansab, or Al-Azlam, etc.) and be afraid of God. Then if you turn away, you should know that it is Our Messenger's duty to convey (the Message) in the clearest way.

It will not pass unnoticed that in this last verse, the Qur'an includes alcoholic drinks and idolatry in the same category.

The Holy Prophet (saw) also prohibited taking of alcohol.The Prophet (saw) said in Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3371:"Alcohol is the mother of all evils and it is the most shameful of evils."

In Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3392:"Anything which intoxicates in a large quantity, is prohibited even in a small quantity."

Not only those who drink alcohol are cursed but also those who deal with them directly or indirectly are cursed by God.

According to Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380.It was reported by Anas (may God be pleased with him), that Prophet The Great Prophet (pbuh) said:

"God's curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else."

Cayon, in the verse you quoted, the permissibility and non-permissibility of wine and gambling is not clarified. Soon after understanding the tone of discountenance in the verse, the highly ranked companions of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam abstained from them. On the other hand, Great Ones in general were still involved in them and the Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had not said anything that indicated their prohibition, until God revealed the following verse:

Qur'an 5 v 90: "O ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, (Dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, Are an Abomination – Of Satan's handiwork; eschew such (abomination), That ye may prosper."

In this verse, the total prohibition of alcoholic drinks and gambling has been clearly revealed.

Also, the companion of the prophet obeyed the prohibition after the revelation of the last verse and the Holy Prophet sent out a caller to  proclaim:

"Behold, alcoholic drinks (intoxicants) have been made haraam."

Intoxicants and Arabs

Intoxicants were very popular among the Arabs. They were manufactured and imbedded almost in every home and to drink had, so to speak, become a mark of advancement in culture. As soon as the announcement was made, the people who were greatly addicted to it and who regarded it a virtue and sign of social and cultural eminence and who would spend lavishly in the state of drunkenness from which the poor and needy profited. These very same people now in a short span of time were ready to forsake and sever any ties they may have had in regards to alcohol which had, for years played a major role in their lives. Those who held goblets in their hands immediately threw them on the ground. Many others who were in the act of drinking, spat the contents out. Sounds of pitchers and jars being smashed up were soon audible from neighbouring houses. Wine was running to such an extent that the streets of Madinah were overflowing.

Hazrat Anas radiyallahu anhu, an eminent companion of the Prophet (SAW) narrates that some friends including Abu Ubayda ibn Jarrah, Abu Dujahna, Mu'az ibn Jabal and Sahl ibn Bayzah radiyallahu anhum had gathered at the house of Abu Talha. Alcohol was flowing and I was acting as the cup-bearer when suddenly the cry of the announcer reached our ears. None of us considered it necessary to go out and investigate the matter. Instead, the containers and jars were smashed to the ground and the wine thrown onto the streets of Madinah. After performing wudhu and ghusl we proceeded towards the Masjid where upon our arrival we found the blessed Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam reciting the aforesaid verse.

Hazrat Buraidah radiyallahu anhu also narrates a similar account wherein a group of Sahaabah were busy consuming liquor when the announcement was made. The words no sooner reached their ears that the cups were thrown to the ground. Others who were about to swallow the alcohol immediately spat it out, numerous barrels were also destroyed in the process.


May God lead you to the truth.

@Cayon: New York(er), listen to him. He just throw down something heavy. Thats knowledge. Not only knowledge, he has great belief.

@Babs787: May God Almighty count all of these for you. Add them in the scale of Judgement for you, when every good deed is greatly valuable. Amin.

@ syrup

don't think the verses you were quoting said anything about any birds with 4 legs - unless you deliberately wanted to force that idea in order to make your point sound intelligent when it is obviously unfounded.

Just an asides, in other to make categorical statements that are half intelligent, a simple thing would have been for you to make a careful search. Sample these –

Thank for showing those pictures of four legs birds. Can we generalize that fowls are four legs?

Syrup…that only one of a million of birds you can found whose abnormality/defect is a rare case in every individual.
What about Insect do you have a picture of 4 legs? Can you show us?

In the same way, you cannot hold that the Qu''ran is "inerrant".

On what basis can you give us your assumption to say that? If you just take from translation of the Arabic verses it better to step aside. Its annoying to persuade other to believe what you’re saying proof us your allegation.
Just show as those verses, which are in error manifestation in the Qur’an?

Is’lam has a unique absolute unity in term of prayer and belief.
You know the Islamic prayer is not similar in any type that a translation can be use in prayer anything can be varying in term of language/dialect.

lol @ "safe."
It's ok if you want. depends on your conviction
I used to read it when I was young (around 11 yrs) just out of curiousity some of the stories are similar to the bible's own but they will get you confused as the scenarios and some  minor (but important) details are different. I used to read my friends koran for fun and make fun of him. lol
It is also written in arabic although some have english translation on the side. lol.

"God's curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else."

Cayon, in the verse you quoted, the permissibility and non-permissibility of wine and gambling is not clarified. Soon after understanding the tone of discountenance in the verse, the highly ranked companions of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam abstained from them. On the other hand, Great Ones in general were still involved in them and the Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had not said anything that indicated their prohibition, until God revealed the following verse:

Qur'an 5 v 90: "O ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, (Dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, Are an Abomination – Of Satan's handiwork; eschew such (abomination), That ye may prosper."

In this verse, the total prohibition of alcoholic drinks and gambling has been clearly revealed.

Also, the companion of the prophet obeyed the prohibition after the revelation of the last verse and the Holy Prophet sent out a caller to proclaim:

"Behold, alcoholic drinks (intoxicants) have been made haraam."

So God is changing his mind? What?

@Lady

So God is changing his mind? What?

Are you referring to the bible cos I have verses on that on that in your book?

i think its safe, just depends on the individual

it o.k 4 a christian 2 read d qur'an,but not d Arabic text only d translation

@WesleyanA: « #53 on: Yesterday at 04:27:25 AM »

lol @ "safe."
It's ok if you want. depends on your conviction
I used to read it when I was young (around 11 years) just out of curiousity some of the stories are similar to the bible's own but they will get you confused as the scenarios and some minor (but important) details are different. I used to read my friends koran for fun and make fun of him. lol
It is also written in arabic although some have english translation on the side. lol.

I wonder how an 11 year old "disbeliever", a Kufar can have a certain conclusion about the "Qur'aan", a perfect book that its first verse, is a completely Prayer; Surah Fatiha? Compare it to any prayer in any other book. Surah Fatiha identifies, those who are believers, why and how and what they are classified as such. If also identifies categories of disbelievers; Jews, Christians and others who are not Mumin, (Mumin is a stage of belief that Muslim aspires to reach).

And to WesleyanA, go back and read the Qur'aan, again. Those minor but important details, as so many that it will tell you that Qur'aan stands separate and apart and above the corrupted Book that you carry in your purse, sometimes into the "TOILET!" The many minor but important details are truth which your Book does not have. Hence your Book is less than 100% informative, even it has not gone through the metamorphosis of the generational but never ending corruptions.

So when you read the Qur'aan for fun, you were reading the truth for fun, without taking it in. So in your making fun of your friend, whose Qur'aan you read, your fun or lol is very precipitious, since you have not thought of your own follies! Read Surah Yusuf to learn about how the society knew the truth of the event between Yusuf and his wife's master. If the society did not know the truth, there might have been somebody thinking that he was trying to sleep with his master's wife.

Read about how Yususf extracated himself from the house, because the master's wife will not take no for an answer. Read about how the master knew that Yusuf was not the initiator of the sexual tension. Women can initiate it, too. Read about how the Master's wife was trying to justify herself over the event, with the high society women of her time. None of these the Bible has.

Read Surah Taha about how Musa first learnt about his mission to Fir'awn! He didn't just go in front of a king and ignore courtsy, and just yell "let my people go!" That would have created such a disaster from the get go. Musa wanted the evil Fir'awn and his people to be saved, too. Read how soft Musa was when he came, the very first time to Fir'awn. He was appealing to the heart of Fir'awn. Maybe it will be soft and be guided.

YOU DONT HAVE ANY OF THOSE IN YOUR BIBLE. IF YOU DO PLEASE TELL ME WHICH VERSION? AND YOU DONT HAVE YOUR BIBLE IN THE LANGUAGE IN WHICH IT WAS REVEALED! MY PROOF; JESUS WAS REPORTED TO SAY 'ELOI, ELOI SAMA TABA KTA MI!' (I KNOW THE TEXT OF THE SEMITIC LANGUAGE IS PROBABLY WRONG, BUT SURE THIS IS NOT GREEK)! Woman, where is the original Bible of Jesus? I know you don't have it. I just want to lol at you. What you have is corruptions.



@~Lady~: Yesterday at 05:53:38 AM »

Quote
"God's curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else."

Cayon, in the verse you quoted, the permissibility and non-permissibility of wine and gambling is not clarified. Soon after understanding the tone of discountenance in the verse, the highly ranked companions of the Holy Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam abstained from them. On the other hand, Great Ones in general were still involved in them and the Prophet sallallahu alaihe wasallam had not said anything that indicated their prohibition, until God revealed the following verse:

Qur'an 5 v 90: "O ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, (Dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, Are an Abomination – Of Satan's handiwork; eschew such (abomination), That ye may prosper."

In this verse, the total prohibition of alcoholic drinks and gambling has been clearly revealed.

Also, the companion of the prophet obeyed the prohibition after the revelation of the last verse and the Holy Prophet sent out a caller to proclaim:

"Behold, alcoholic drinks (intoxicants) have been made haraam."

So God is changing his mind? What?

Could be not say that the Jewish God changed His mind, according to the Christians, when it comes to His "new" personality/personalities, now that He is a transferred God to the Christians? ~Lady~, 3 gods, okay 3 persons in 1 God is not exactly 1 God Who is not Changing that you think the Jews call Yahweh/Jehovah. But we hear your god, Jesus, one part god, remaining two other parts, called THE GOD ELOI/ sounds like Allah to me, in time of distress.


I think you need to start seeing things as they truly are. 20 years ago, if I had referred to you as little girl, I would be correct. Right? If I referred to you as a teenaged girl, then, 20 years ago, people will correct me that you are not even 10 years, yet. How then could i call you a teenaged girl. Big difference.

But 7 years ago, if I called you a teenaged girl, I would be correct. Right? But if I called you a toddler, or so, people will definitely correct me. They may tell me to take off the curtain in front of me do that I can see, but just judge by your voice only. Definitely, if I call you a teenager, today, you will tell me that you are a woman, for sure. Look at your ID. Your ID "~Lady~" is not actually screaming "am a little girl, but rather am a woman!"

Now. If you look at the way Qur'aan rid people who used to consume alcohol, it is in line with process of life maturity. From evilness of drunkenness, as drunkards to abstainance from it, altogether. They didnt go "cold turkey!" That was not the intent of Allah. He wanted them to leave drinking freewill, without compulsion. Just like belief. It is freewill, too. Just like prayers, and charity, and fasting and hajj and good deeds.

You know USA practiced prohibition for a while. But they were unsuccessful in it. Today, manufacturers are the sponsors of most major events. Their presence is felt, every which way till sunday. If Islam dominates, the pseudo-christian country, according to your claim which I disagree with on the official religion of USA, I assure you alcohol consumption and its resultant evils will drastically be reduced.

Why the evils of alcohol is not yet eliminated from the pseudo-muslim society, because there is no true muslim society, yet, since there is no kalifah, is because the muslims are foolishly copying the non-muslims, includings the obvious vices.

@netotse: « #56 on: Today at 04:11:11 AM »

i think its safe, just depends on the individual

Read it and digest it, with thorough digestion and analysis. Then you may be rightly guided.
I read the Bible. And I could read it, still.



@yoci (f): « #57 on: Today at 12:52:27 PM »

it o.k 4 a christian 2 read d qur'an,but not d Arabic text only d translation

Arabic text, because you do not know how to read it. But when you read the english "what it means," please have an open mind. You Creator may just be talking to you. Dont miss the opportunity to listen and receive guidance.

Chrisitans in genral are scared to tread the quran cos it wud shake their belief!!!!

@javalove, i read it all the time and it makes me a stronger Christian, i was born a muslim, made to recite it in arabic but the moment i began to understand what it meant i was outraged, then i picked up the bible and could easily know its the truth.


CHRISTIANS KEEP READING THE QURAN AS ITS GOOD FOR EVANGELIZING, THEY DON'T TELL YOU WHAT ISLAM REALLY IS, THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T WANT IT IN ALL LANGUAGES, A MAN WAS ARRESTED IN AFGANISTAN FOR TRANSLATING THE QURAN INTO THEIR LOCAL DIELECT.WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF ?

All the islamic secrets they are afraid of letting you know are therein the hadiths and koran, thanks to modernisation,,,,,,,,read them and your faith is established on a solid rock,,,,,,,,Thank Jesus for Christianity.

If God leads u to the right path u will never go astray and if he leads u astray u will never get the right path.

Its not about reading the holy Koran but getting good understanding about it, u can never understand a book with a biased mind no matter how hard u try.



GOD IN HIS INFINITE MERCY WILL NEVER LEAD ME ASTRAY(AMEN)
I DONT KNOW OF U OOOOOOOOOOO If u want God to lead u to the Right path u can read with unbiased mind.