.

First, yes, there are some atheists that, admittedly, don't want a god to exist. Consider Thomas Nagal:

"It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"sthat I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."
So, yes, there are atheists that don't want there to be a god. Any god.

However, it does not follow from this statement that they want to go to a place of eternal punishment. What atheists like Nagel don't want to exist is theentirescenario: Heaven, Hell, God, the entire package. That does not, itself, lead to any preferences should all of that actually exist. If you tell me that someone is behind me, waiting to stab me in the back, and I don't believe you, that doesn't mean Iwantto be stabbed in the back.


Second, it still possible for me towanta god to exist yet still not believe in one. Since I acknowledge that reality doesn't conform to my wishes, I realize that what I want isn't always the case. This seems like a very basic and fundamental thing to believe, but it seems that some Christians don't. They believe that reality is whatever they want it to be; whatever they believe is the case, they also want to be the case. It seems odd, personally. Regardless, there are plenty of things Iwantto be the case that I don't believearethe case

I can honestly say with my hand on my heart that i don't believe in any God not that i don't want to believe in any God. As far as am concerned since there was no before life there will no afterlife.

Heh heh, the atheist in your op is strange. Like you note, I doubt most of us atheists operate that way. His reasoning is more the way I see religious operating.

Anyways, some would say you have it backwards. For instance;

tobechi20: .

They believe that reality is whatever they want it to be; whatever they believe is the case, they also want to be the case. It seems odd, personally. Regardless, there are plenty of things Iwantto be the case that I don't believearethe case

Isn't this what faith based religions are built on?

faith
/fāTH/
-Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
-Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.


Absolute belief regardless of the evidence? It's inherently irrational, hence the never ending battles between skeptics and religious.

Random...

I see a lot of people contorting the word 'faith', using it somewhat disingenuously.

Let's say I show you black, you then insist it's white. I ask you how did you determine that? You say; "GOD!!". Note, your belief in god is built around blind faith, ie faith that is not backed up by evidence. Very different from saying 'I have faith in the sun shining tomorrow'. There's plenty good evidence supporting the notion of the sun shining tomorrow. Indeed, regardless of what I believe in, the sun will shine tomorrow. Billions around the world will verify, objective scientific instruments will acknowledge the event, etc etc.

Very not so with gods, supernatural, etc. Regardless of what the evidence is, you still have FAITH. That is what religion is. So some would say these people you speak of in your quote above are simply being religious. In fact, they would say you are the one doing it wrong.

manmustwac: I can honestly say with my hand on my heart that i don't believe in any God not that i don't want to believe in any God. As far as am concerned since there was no before life there will no afterlife.

Hmmn. Playing the materialist huh ! Now tell me what happens to that brain of yours when you die ?

True. Indeed there was this topic on Dawkins' old site where atheists were talking about God's existence. Some insisted nothing could convince them otherwise, and if I recall rightly, one said (s)he didn't want a God. Indeed, I say hell is dreary but not of undue concern to skeptics. I agree with some of his points, and the materialism inherent in his position I understand - but don't agree with.

Now let's infer an intelligence based on facts that any sane person will agree with.

• undirected matter is limited in what it can
make (montmorollite crystals, diamonds, snows
etc)

• intelligence (as especially seen in humans)
makes systems which simulates life (the way
all living things are made from encoded DNA or
RNA is some viruses) and they hardly say this,

• intelligence (thoughts, feelings, beliefs,
chimeras etc) is necessarily expressed through
material means.

Of course, any one (using intelligence) can
argue for or against these, either for the sake of, or because of a bias but these 3 propositions are
factual. I concluded, therefore that the materialist position confutes itself because it (by
definition) denies the existence of what makes it
possible while using it intelligence to propose how life and indeed the universe arose. From those 3 facts it can be reasonably inferred that intelligence is a crucial factor to life arising from matter.

Yet there is a 4th proposition and its inference. Matter on its own lacks intelligence and consciousness, and hence we infer, it lacks the ability to solely effect systems exhibiting intelligence.

Going by the inanities of a certain despicable mr whargarbl I wouldn't be shocked if someone glossed over the 3 (even the four) facts proposed and harped on the statement that intelligence requires materials to manifest. In any case for me, God's existence is a given. It is a I'm as rocksure of that in my new stance as I was when a Christian.

"Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived."
- Baruch Spinoza

Uyi Iredia:

Hmmn. Playing the materialist huh ! Now tell me what happens to that brain of yours when you die ?

The brain like the rest will eventually rot & decay. We came from dust & we will return to dust. Its not rocket science.

manmustwac: The brain like the rest will eventually rot & decay. We came from dust & we will return to dust. Its not rocket science.

we come from dust and we return to dust....is that bibblical or scientific?the last time i checked ,it was biblical

Uyi Iredia:
Going by the inanities of a certain despicable mr whargarbl I wouldn't be shocked if someone glossed over the 3 (even the four) facts proposed and harped on the statement that intelligence requires materials to manifest. In any case for me, God's existence is a given.

Whatever happened to your heralded ignore list?

Uyi Iredia:
It is a I'm as rocksure of that in my new stance as I was when a Christian.

And when you were an xtian, you were a hundred percent correct as well.


Kayi. Folly. At least your use of the word 'despicable' was funny.

manmustwac: The brain like the rest will eventually rot & decay. We came from dust & we will return to dust. Its not rocket science.

We came from sperms and eggs. In any case, lemme get straight to the point. I believe in an afterlife in the sense that 'nothingness' (your dead body with you no longer being conscious) or 'somethingness' (an ethereal state in which there's a heightened consciousness) are afterlife options. For God's existence, you may have seen where I've articulated my reasons for believing. At death, your neurological processes still function for a few minutes before total lapse of electrical activity in the brain, now there are situations in which this has occurred and people recovered. One is from an atheist in this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb1N9WQd4KU

debate between religionists and atheists. I really doubt miracles will convince some atheists about God's being since if it becomes regular enough it will be taken for granted.

Uyi Iredia: True. Indeed there was this topic on Dawkins' old site where atheists were talking about God's existence. Some insisted nothing could convince them otherwise, and if I recall rightly, one said (s)he didn't want a God. Indeed, I say hell is dreary but not of undue concern to skeptics. I agree with some of his points, and the materialism inherent in his position I understand - but don't agree with.

Now let's infer an intelligence based on facts that any sane person will agree with.

• undirected matter is limited in what it can
make (montmorollite crystals, diamonds, snows
etc)

• intelligence (as especially seen in humans)
makes systems which simulates life (the way
all living things are made from encoded DNA or
RNA is some viruses) and they hardly say this,

• intelligence (thoughts, feelings, beliefs,
chimeras etc) is necessarily expressed through
material means.

Of course, any one (using intelligence) can
argue for or against these, either for the sake of, or because of a bias but these 3 propositions are
factual. I concluded, therefore that the materialist position confutes itself because it (by
definition) denies the existence of what makes it
possible while using it intelligence to propose how life and indeed the universe arose. From those 3 facts it can be reasonably inferred that intelligence is a crucial factor to life arising from matter.

Yet there is a 4th proposition and its inference. Matter on its own lacks intelligence and consciousness, and hence we infer, it lacks the ability to solely effect systems exhibiting intelligence.

Going by the inanities of a certain despicable mr whargarbl I wouldn't be shocked if someone glossed over the 3 (even the four) facts proposed and harped on the statement that intelligence requires materials to manifest. In any case for me, God's existence is a given. It is a I'm as rocksure of that in my new stance as I was when a Christian.

"Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived."
- Baruch Spinoza

This very idea that god is necessary for existence, is it not just wishful thinking?.
We want god to exist so that existence can make sense to our very limited senses, so we mentally construct one.

Is it any wonder that god is omni everything? God would not be god unless it was omni everything, everywhere and no where, material and spiritual. Bestower of freewill as well as dictator of commandments, very loving and also very wrathful, designs a mind to think but punishes you in eternal hell if you express doubts about ridiculous stone-aged superstitions.

Why not start from a position of no god, search together and see where and when we might find a god that we can all see and agree upon?