BetaThings:
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LagosShia:
it is very funny that someone above is calling Saudi Arabia a "theocracy".monarchy and theocracy are two different things,and monarchy have no basis and no place in Islam ,be you as Sunni as Salaheddine or as Shia as Ayatollah Khomeini.

vedaxcool:

quote of the thread!

deols:

It is unfortunate that almost every dominant group tramples on the others. Very unfortunate.

Two wrongs dont evrer make a right though. Imagine that the sunnis lead by example and show the true Islam by their actions, it would then be easy to tag shiites as the trouble makers.

But now, it appears everyone is trouble-making.

Nairatalks: It is sad when some of my fellow muslims are not honest about Saudi Arabia just to win an argument.


Saudi Arabia gives a very wrong impression of Islam and sharia. A great country to look at is Malaysia- Christians are allowed to practice their religion and build churches in Malaysia. However, it must be noted that the permits to build churches in Malaysia are not easy to obtain.

Saudi Arabia shows a very intolerant attitude to christians with the banning of their freedom to openly practice their religion and banning other religious items like bibles and co.

This is the same Saudi Arabia that prohibits women from driving and is the only country to do so. If any Nigerian muslim here that has a wife/sister/mother that drives or is a woman that drives supports Saudi Arabia, then there is a real problem.


Please, let us be honest

Nairatalks:
What security does Saudi have? Isn tht where the 9/11 bombers came from?

Isnt that where a lot of our Westernized and Shia muslim brothers claim the Extremist Wahabbi ideology comes from?

BetaThings:

I want to concentrate on Muslim and Christians
Muslims have always led by example in this country. Where has it got us really
There is nothing that Muslims want that Christians don't protest; we don't rail against what Muslims want
I am not debating, just pointing out facts
1. Muslims want Islamic Banking - Christians say No
2. Muslim students want to wear Hijab - Christians say No
3. The Nigerian Stock Exchange (NSE) wanted to list an Islamic Index - Christian protested
4. Female Stockbrokers wore Hijab to their office and then the floor of the NSE - Christian DG (Okereke Onyiuke) and some Christian stockbrokers said No. The brokers could not trade for about 5 months until the NSE council overruled her. If it had lingered, they would have lost their jobs (what is the use of a broker that cannot trade?)

I am trying to remember what Christians want that Muslims objected to
Where has that all "good" example got us?
Even on Nairaland, any good post about Islam that makes it to the fp causes a lot of agitation to Christians
We don't care when they have several of theirs on the fp. They can fill the entire fp with their sermons. It does not matter to us in the least. And I can proudly refer any objective poster to the conduct of both Muslims and Christians on NL

But we are always accused of intolerance.

On Saudi Arabia, I would rather be RIGHTLY accused of intolerance, than in error

To repeat - nothing is wrong with keeping Christians out of Saudi Arabia. Officially it is a country governed by Shariah
Are they not always accusing us of hating them and angling to "cut off their hands and behead them?" What do they want? Do they want to commit suicide?

I can assure you that the Saudis cannot match the Christians. How do you fight people whose major arsenal is propaganda?
Do you recall that thread on hoaxes and fabrications? Those are the tools of the "implacable and experienced propagadinsts"
I am sure that you recall how the Christian moderators wickedly suggested to Seun that there should be a warning about insulting Islam. we know that our Prophet (SAW) and Allah are insulted by Christians and others (which our moderators try to deal with) while we don't insult their own figures. But we get blamed for intolerance

Back to Saudi Arabia
Can we imagine the number of fake Qur'an (BTW it is real - I have a fake Qur'an) that would land in that country within 1 year?
Can we imagine the number of naive and vulnerable muslims (performing Hajj and Umrah) that will be at the mercy of all of that propaganda
I studied CRK in a public secondary school - no IRK was offered. I am yet to see in real life those lofty Christian qualities they told me about in school

I admire your desire for fairplay. But I have learnt the hard lesson that people are not so chivalrous and they NEVER reciprocate - I have defended people on NL who in return sank their teeth on our flesh

Sissie: @betathings so true thats similar to what I tell people.
We had a national Christmas tree and decorations funded by the government and Muslims didn't protest.
In Abuja every Christian holidays the city is decorated with lights and so many Christian decorations, during eid holidays there's no decorations, and no one protested.
The boko haram they all talk about has killed more Muslims than Christians, but the christians make it look like only churches and Christians are killed.
It's terrible.
And what do we Muslims do? we argue about things that are either not relevant or we have no control of.

deols: [s]
Is anyone thinking what I am thinking that nairatalk may not be a Muslim. He could be logicboy, pretending to be a Muslim
[/s]

Nairatalks: More religion is not the answer. More science, more sensible laws, more education and more sensible investments are the key to catching up with the west. I am a religious person myself but religion is not everything. God is! And I believe God is in each and every hardworking man who wants to progess in th world

deols:

The Nigerian situation is a good example.

About the Nigerian Christians, I have seen many of them at school, airports, here on NL etc and they have never succeeded in hiding their intolerance.

That is not my issue actually. I am not debating that. I was just saying, especially in relation with lagosShia's posts that oppressing others for disagreeing with you may not be the best way to it.

There is no reason to argue too much on this actually. That the laws are strict is FACT. it doesnt suit all is another fact.

sojjy: @crackles,don't accuse men of God wrongly.Even if T.B is a fraud,you don't need to judge him as judgement only lies in God hands.I jst pity Yara'adua 4 wat Turai has turned him to.Power drunk turai.

BetaThings:

I saw his posts earlier and discovered that EVERY One of his posts is critical of Islam
He has never said a single word (sorry letter) against any other person apart from muslims
He presents himself as someone who is truthful, accusing virtually everyone of dishonesty
I did not want to derail the thread by focussing on him
Alhamdu Li Llah. They must resort to lies, deception to fight Islam because the truth is too intimidating for them etc

LagosShia:

I really feel sad reading your post-sad because you want me to join hands with you and the likes of those defending the Saudi regime over what conflicts with Islam,under the name of defending Islam.if you are a Muslim,and you mess up,muslims have no obligation to defend your mess-up because non-muslims think that mess-up is supported by your religion.in fact as I am doing it is compulsory for muslims to disassociate themselves from wrong actions.remember what the Holy Quran states:

"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, be he rich or poor, Allah is a Better Protector to both (than you). So follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you may avoid justice, and if you distort your witness or refuse to give it, verily, Allah is Ever Well-Acquainted with what you do". (4:135)

a Saudi regime fueling sectarian killings in Pakistan,iraq and Syria does not represent islam.my name symbolizes one of the two main branches of islam,but the monarchy you are crying for have no basis in islam.may Allah (swt) make us among those who listen and follow the best of it.

BetaThings:

You don't need to remind us of honesty. Do Christians tolerate Muslims even in Nigeria where we are?

BetaThings:
So Oklahoma bombing shows that American does not have security?
Forget what Shias claim. Everyone has an agenda. And everyone tries to safeguard himself. It is human nature
Here in Nigeria were we not told that Yaradua did not hand over to Jonathan because
Jonathan is a Christian from the South?
What reason did they give when Enugu state gov did not hand over to his deputy? - Religion? Tribalism

Please let us argue based on reality and not on the basis of some imaginary principles that the proponents have never implemented and will never practise anyway

AbdH:
I advocate the use of the Islamic Khilafah system to run the affairs of Muslims and I do not believe that the monarchy Saudi operates is right and I will never defend it anywhere. It is good to criticize Saudi whenever they go wrong but I tell you that there is no where Islam is fully implemented not even in countries where there are other sects (e.g Shia) of Islam having the majority. These countries are as guilty as Saudi for that reason because nothing stops them from leading by example.
About Saudi fueling sectarian killings, I have no first hand information about that and I consider all unverifiable news mere speculations until otherwise proven to be true...moreso, I wouldn't consider any news that come from a media that is run by people are wont to be influenced by sentiments because they belong to another sect. I wouldn't want to derail this thread any further for that is what I accused you of in the first place.

On the topic, I go with Betathings.

Nairatalks:


What are you talking about, sir?

Focus on the issue at hand. Saudi Arabia lacks security and it is an intolerant country when it comes to freedom of religion. Christians should practice their faith freely.

And yes, America has poor security compared to its European counterparts. Oklahoma bomber is one bomber but what about the multiple bombers that came from Saudi Arabia?

I gave an example of Malaysia but everyone kept quiet and went back to their political agenda. Seems that we have some extremists among us.

May Allah guide us. I pray that we treat others as fairly. Remember that when you do something bad to someone of another religion, he can do worse to you in his own haraam religion

Nairatalks: Saudi Arabia can learn from Malaysia. Malaysia is a great Islamic country. A peaceful country with Sharia law and an effective method of living in peace with non muslims. A country where you will hardly hear of the royal family's extravagance.

Nairatalks:

Are you stopped from practicing Islam in southern Nigeria which is the Christian stronghold of Nigeria?

Nairatalks:
How shameful that you would even try to compare the situation in Saudi Arabia to Nigeria. Apples and oranges to me.

Nairatalks:
Nigeria has its problems but they are not related to the topic at hand which is Saudi Arabia destruction of freedom of religion.

AbdH:
I advocate the use of the Islamic Khilafah system to run the affairs of Muslims and I do not believe that the monarchy Saudi operates is right and I will never defend it anywhere. It is good to criticize Saudi whenever they go wrong but I tell you that there is no where Islam is fully implemented not even in countries where there are other sects (e.g Shia) of Islam having the majority. These countries are as guilty as Saudi for that reason because nothing stops them from leading by example.
About Saudi fueling sectarian killings, I have no first hand information about that and I consider all unverifiable news mere speculations until otherwise proven to be true...moreso, I wouldn't consider any news that come from a media that is run by people are wont to be influenced by sentiments because they belong to another sect. I wouldn't want to derail this thread any further for that is what I accused you of in the first place.

On the topic, I go with Betathings.

"Whoever sets up another Imam besides 'Ali and delays 'Ali's caliphate is a polytheist."

"Doubt about the Imamate of 'Ali is like doubt about the mission of Muhammad SAWS and one who doubts both should be killed if possible, if he claims to be a Muslim. On the other hand, disbelievers are like the Jews and Christians and should not be killed for these reasons."
These are both from al-Kafi - the greatest Shia book of Ahadeeth

BetaThings:

Please let us not allow this matter become an issue between Shia and Sunnis
It is an incontrovertible fact that Shias are required by their books to KILL anyone who CALLS HIMSELF a Muslim and does not believe that Ali should have become the caliph after the Prophet (SAW)

I don't like injustice and i maintain it is unjust to single out SaudiA.
Let us bring ALL countries to the table for examination
But the focus on SaudiA that informed this thread is actually is borne out of bad faith and it is actually an act of injustice and assault on the freedom of the SaudiA to legislate for their country

Do you see people who rail about injustice open threads to condemn injustice by people whose beliefs they share?

LagosShia:

if you claim you're fasting,it is null and void.you can feel free to break your fast because on the Day of Judgment you can hold me responsible for the act,and I will make my case. there is no need for someone who claims to be a "muslim" and is said to be fasting to be making big lies that Shia are required by their books to kill anyone who is "muslim" (by which you mean Sunnis).we do not say that even though in reality animals like you abuse the gift of life.and for your info,the allegation of killing and terrorism is made against the Shia on imaginative grounds while the Shia are the ones suffering the actual sectarian killing and terrorism of the Wahhabis/Salafis among Sunnis:

"A Timeline Of Sectarian Terrorism Against Shia Muslims"
https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

"Genocide Of Shia Muslims In Pakistan"
https://www.nairaland.com/1120418/genocide-shia-muslims-pakistan

Sissie:
On what authority do you relly on to tell someone is fasting is null and void?
So you are so sure that you won't be busy answering questions on the day of judgement about how you spent your youth, how you treated miskin and the neighbors etc. That you want to add more by defending why someones fast is null and void.
You called him an animal who abuse the gift of life? Really?. How's he an animal and how has betathings as a person abuse the gift of life
Let us all be Muslims and fear Allah.
I don't really care about your Shia, Sunni believes, but
If you disagree with him, and then tender your arguments and show us the hadith that said otherwise.

Sissie: Am not joining you in your argument like I said, I don't care about your Shia, Sunni believes and debate. So there's no need to ask him about lie or no lie.
Yes you do not seek my help to enter Al-jannah. And it's sad you are bent on arguing and being defensive that you didn't see the "message" in what I wrote. But as a Muslim brother to me and as someone who believes in the Muslim being an ummah, I wrote that which is the same thing I would have told any Muslim who wrote what you did irrespective of his sect.
But oh well kudos to you.
May Allah lead us to the right path not to the path of those astray.
And thats a prayer for every Muslim irrespective of your sect.

BetaThings:

That is their idea of secular state - where anything reminding anyone of Islam is suppressed
While Christian activities are promoted by the state. That is their definition of tolerance

Have you noticed how creative they are? They are so ingenious and very brainy when trying to rationalise their ill-treatment of muslims
The OP here is lamenting that Saudi Arabia does not allow foreigners to practise their religion (Christianity) but is perfectly happy that in violation of the Nigerian constitution, a Nigerian is flogged for wearing the hijab because of the pronouncement of a school
Thus even a bus driver, local government, school, company can then make a rule to remove my constitutional right!

The Saudi Arabia of their dream is one that will one day operate a secular constitution that will allow a Saudi school flog Saudi pupil for wearing hijab
On that day they will be explaining away why the hijab should NOT be tolerated but today they want Saudi to tolerate them
Let them allow that mosque in Rivers State university first

BetaThings:

When Zamfara state declared sharia, Christians started a media propaganda about the sanctity of the constitution
when Plateau state declared itself a Christian state, where was the constitution and the vocal christian defenders of its sanctity?

LagosShia:

if you claim you're fasting,it is null and void.you can feel free to break your fast because on the Day of Judgment you can hold me responsible for the act,and I will make my case.there is no need for someone who claims to be a "muslim" and is said to be fasting to be making big lies that Shia are required by their books to kill anyone who is "muslim" (by which you mean Sunnis).we do not say that even though in reality animals like you abuse the gift of life.and for your info,the allegation of killing and terrorism is made against the Shia on imaginative grounds while the Shia are the ones suffering the actual sectarian killing and terrorism of the Wahhabis/Salafis among Sunnis:

"A Timeline Of Sectarian Terrorism Against Shia Muslims"
https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia

"Genocide Of Shia Muslims In Pakistan"
https://www.nairaland.com/1120418/genocide-shia-muslims-pakistan

Sissie: Am not joining you in your argument like I said, I don't care about your Shia, Sunni believes and debate. So there's no need to ask him about lie or no lie.
Yes you do not seek my help to enter Al-jannah. And it's sad you are bent on arguing and being defensive that you didn't see the "message" in what I wrote. But as a Muslim brother to me and as someone who believes in the Muslim being an ummah, I wrote that which is the same thing I would have told any Muslim who wrote what you did irrespective of his sect.
But oh well kudos to you.
May Allah lead us to the right path not to the path of those astray.
And thats a prayer for every Muslim irrespective of your sect.

Muslim living in hell on earth already, I should try and change that. Please advise me on how to go about changing all the Muslims living in hell on earth already, and you how are you going about doing that, by writing long stories, arguing and insulting people on nairaland?

"Whoever sets up another Imam besides 'Ali and delays 'Ali's caliphate is a polytheist." (Al-Kafi vol.10 p.55)

"Doubt about the Imamate of 'Ali is like doubt about the mission of Muhammad SAWS and one who doubts both should be killed if possible, if he claims to be a Muslim. On the other hand, disbelievers are like the Jews and Christians and should not be killed for these reasons." (Al-Kafi vol.6 p.393)