Explanations Wanted!!! - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland
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Explanations Needed On The Proposed Farewell Intercourse Legislation In Egypt. (2) (3) (4)
| Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 7:17pm On Jul 22, 2013 |
Quran 6:115] Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower. [Quran 10:64] Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter - There is no changing the Words of Allah - that is the Supreme Triumph. A reverse of the above Quran 16:101] And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not. [Quran 2:106] Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? Can anyone explain why Allah had to be changing His revelations after he had said nothing can change his words and in fact there is no changing his words? |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by Nobody: 11:02pm On Jul 22, 2013 |
Please note that each of the verses are not related to one another, but each is a part of the story in the context of the verses group it belongs. each is from different surah, so the story that it reflects has to be in the surah you find it, not having exactly the same wording or textual construction. But you can't even change my words after i have said it because it has gone with the wind and the time. But even if you are powerful enough to make me recount it, i may take it back so that whatever the resultant result is changed to how you want it s long as my intention is not realize. you only succeed to make my intention not as i intended. but gathering my words and stuffing them back into my mouth that it will as if i never said them will be impossible. now no one can make Allah change His Word. you cant by reversing His Intention or bring back the past so that it was not said. And when Allah says changing or replacing previous with the present verse or Word, it simply should be illustrated with the weaning of the people from alcohol. the people became muslims with all their baggage. so to get them to drink, they were first taken to a step whereby the drinking period was confined to like late evening after the last prayer and long before the morning prayer at dawn. they were told that they have to pray with clear head, meaning to alcohol effect when they pray as they must be conscious of what they are doing and saying. later, this verse was replaces with total restriction on alcohol that the night time drinking is cancelled out. hopefully, that solves your concern. but the people were also weaned from even any form of association with Allah by turning their mind away from Kaaba to Jerusalem for sometime. so the training of not face Jerusalem completely divorce them from any idol they might have been familiar with still in Kaaba that they used to face. then Allah knew that they were no more attached to idols, the command to return to facing the original direction, Kaaba was given where when they faced it, even before the victory of Makka, they had no attachment and no association whatsoever with any idol there. so in the two examples Allah replace one revelation with another and bring in place of one revelation better one. 1 Like |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 8:52am On Jul 23, 2013 |
I would not blame you for making an attempt but your performance is below expectation. You are very wrong to compare revelations to speeches. Do you know allah's revelations were stored into Muhammad's memory? allah was tampering with his memory to change or remove already revealed messages. Is that what you compare to words spoken into the air? Your knowledge is shallow. Did allah make mistakes to reveal a message and later change/cancel it. He said he replaced them to put better ones. Who gave him the better idea? Who is more knowledgeable than him that gave him the better idea? The truth is allah was changing his words anytime the need for manipulations were arising. And that was because he is a spirit that is not omniscient. He would have been exornerated if he had not boasted that his words cannot change. He wanted to pretend to be the Almight God but has no capability to do so. I only managed to pick some of your points, others are not related to the issue at hand. Indirectly, you are a blessing to the muslim community on nairaland.com because you respond to any thread rightly or wrongly to pretend as if there are answers when others do not know what to say. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 9:37am On Jul 23, 2013 |
^ the topic of your article shouldn't have been 'explanations wanted', but should be 'arguments demanded' . You should rather think people have gotten tired of your baseless inconstructive arguments, such that they've decided not to reply to your posts any longer... But really, the more you try to dig up faults from what is absolutely faultless, the more you technically mislead yourself (just advising). But althrough your posts here, haven't you found one that is commendable of islam from all your conspiracy researches, for you to post? 2 Likes |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 10:02am On Jul 23, 2013 |
golpen: ^ the topic of your article shouldn't have been 'explanations wanted', but should be 'arguments demanded' . Is that your explanation to the contradictory and conflicting quranic verses? |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 10:23am On Jul 23, 2013 |
truthman2012: You don't want an explanation...you want an argument and I'm not in for that. Please read the references on your pickthall. 1 Like |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by cleanvessel(m): 9:11pm On Jul 23, 2013 |
Nobody is attempting this thing again na. The muslims pride themselves in quran being the only revealed words of allah. Why is the book full of contradictions and errors, so much so that allah had to be changing and replacing the revelation? Is that the Omniscient God? Keep thinking!! |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 8:36am On Jul 24, 2013 |
cleanvessel: Nobody is attempting this thing again na. Thanks. But I remember your brother truthman2012 accepting that the ones in the bible are human errors that have crept their ways into GOD's scriptures. Go find a solution to your own dilemma first, before accusing others. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 2:20pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
golpen: While the human errors in the bible are pardonable because man is fallible, the errors in the quran are not because God is not expected to make any one. It goes to prove the quran is not the word of the true God as muslims claim. Satan is not a perfect being. The little differences in men's figures in the Bible have nothing to do with salvation. Solomon said ten horses and David said five for example. How material is that to salvation? As at the time 10 horses became 5, how are we sure 5 had not died or given out as gifts as the statement were not made the same year, they were made many years apart. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by Mintayo(m): 2:41pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
golpen: sorry dude,that is ur own fabrication@d bolded! |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by Mintayo(m): 2:42pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
golpen: sorry dude,that is ur own fabrication@d bolded! |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by Nobody: 6:48pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
@truthman2012; we are in the middle of 2013 already, man. change the old and come in with the new that is almost ending. by truthman2012: 8:52am On Jul 23 since you believe there are some amount of revelation in the Bible, could you tell me what happened at the Burning Bush is; speech or revelation? Is the 10 Commandments revelation or just speech? I now know your problem about the another comforter who was to hear and then speak. In your mind someone with voice is what is meant because being a Holy Spirit disqualifies him. No wonder you also accept that Mary must be mounted so that she can produce baby discounting the Power of Creating that God has, creating from nothing, at least the first creation before you start arguing blindly. Revelation can be from Inspiration, dream, and definitely speech. The birth of Jesus [as] was a revelation to Mary, a woman, not a prophet by "speech" There is a saying, what children learned are like etching in stone and what adult learned are like writing on water. If adding and subtracting from Memory of Muhammad [sa] we get this Quran that trumps the previous 'revelations' Allah is Truly Akbar and has given The Holy prophet [sa] the greatest retentive memory. Look at the Bible, when you read it, God is Yahweh and 1, then God is Jehovah being 3 with a baby God. reading the 4 in parallel reading you see the holy ghost give conflicting accounts and no wonder there is revisions in every generation. Did Allah make mistakes to reveal a message and later change/cancel it. He said he replaced them to put better ones. Who gave him the better idea? Who is more knowledgeable than him that gave him the better idea?let me use you for illustration here. If i were to elevate your understanding skill, i will ask that you learn the John come to school bit of reading first, before I introduce you to NOEC textbook of english language [for those too young to know NOEC means New Oxford English Course]. Allah knows human capability and while humans are learning to design 12 steps treatment, He simply reveals it in stages. The truth is Allah was changing his words anytime the need for manipulations were arising. And that was because he is a spirit that is not omniscient. my brother in humanity, I am not doing anything that other people on nairaland are not doing greater and better. Its summer and i dislike to give you a pass because when it comes to faith, you have to show it. Up till now, you haven't, except parroting about. Alhamdulillah that Allah did not have any regret in creating jinn, humans, etc. Allah did not tell anyone to lie or send a lying spirit to the world to do anything for Him. Allah is not shy. Allah is not killed. Allah does not have a son. Allah does not have anything of human. Allah is not a father of anyone. Thats my Lord God deserving all worships as he prescribes. 2 Likes |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 7:06pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
I don't enjoy your posts at all. You decidely deviate from the subject. A question that requires only a few lines to answer you turn to a whole text book. Your grammatical constructions serious problems. Your long answers full of rigmaroles. Your conclusions irrational. Therefore I will learn to avoid your posts from now. Thank you. 2 Likes |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by Nobody: 7:14pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
@truthman2012; we are in the middle of 2013 already, man. change the old and come in with the new that is almost ending. by truthman2012: 8:52am On Jul 23 since you believe there are some amount of revelation in the Bible, could you tell me what happened at the Burning Bush is; speech or revelation? Is the 10 Commandments revelation or just speech? I now know your problem about the another comforter who was to hear and then speak. In your mind someone with voice is what is meant because being a Holy Spirit disqualifies him. No wonder you also accept that Mary must be mounted so that she can produce baby discounting the Power of Creating that God has, creating from nothing, at least the first creation before you start arguing blindly. Revelation can be from Inspiration, dream, and definitely speech. The birth of Jesus [as] was a revelation to Mary, a woman, not a prophet by "speech" There is a saying, what children learned are like etching in stone and what adult learned are like writing on water. If adding and subtracting from Memory of Muhammad [sa] we get this Quran that trumps the previous 'revelations' Allah is Truly Akbar and has given The Holy prophet [sa] the greatest retentive memory. Look at the Bible, when you read it, God is Yahweh and 1, then God is Jehovah being 3 with a baby God. reading the 4 in parallel reading you see the holy ghost give conflicting accounts and no wonder there is revisions in every generation. Did Allah make mistakes to reveal a message and later change/cancel it. He said he replaced them to put better ones. Who gave him the better idea? Who is more knowledgeable than him that gave him the better idea?let me use you for illustration here. If i were to elevate your understanding skill, i will ask that you learn the John come to school bit of reading first, before I introduce you to NOEC textbook of english language [for those too young to know NOEC means New Oxford English Course]. Allah knows human capability and while humans are learning to design 12 steps treatment, He simply reveals it in stages. The truth is Allah was changing his words anytime the need for manipulations were arising. And that was because he is a spirit that is not omniscient. my brother in humanity, dont make things up about me or heap your own opinion on me. I am alive to tell you that its not true. I am a nobody. Its summer and when it ends i may not be on here but i dislike to give you a pass because when it comes to faith, you have to show it. Up till now, you haven't, except parroting about. Alhamdulillah that Allah did not have any regret in creating jinn, humans, etc. Allah did not tell anyone to lie or send a lying spirit to the world to do anything for Him. Allah is not shy. Allah is not killed. Allah does not have a son. Allah does not have anything of human. Allah is not a father of anyone. Thats my Lord God deserving all worships as he prescribes. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 8:01pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
Mintayo:  ... You didn't mean to make me laugh did you? Maybe you didn't read truthman2012 trying to defend his confirmation on this thread again. Don't dump your eyes off when next you visit NL.The thing is; we muslims can still give you genuine explanations for what you have deliberately misconcepted about the quran, only you have deliberately don't want to understand. But before you argue with us here, maybe you should iron out with @truthman2012 fisrt, on his own view, agreeing that they are human errors and should be pardonable. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 8:15pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
truthman2012: With the plentiful of the human errors you've agreed with me that are contained in the bible, will you call the bible the words of the true GOD?... Definitely perfection cannot blend in any way with imperfection. You will never get any explanation from me because you are not willing to learn. You want endless argument. But with me is the explanations I understand and with you are the faults you've agreed are true. So what's your claim. ...yes I think I forgot was king james' birthday, so they gave him some horses. But then, what about the age of joaichin?  maybe he gave that out to a younger soul too. You better stop fooling yourself with your handicapped excuses. The bible refers to the same incident and the same time, yet we have the differences in the figures and people. Read your bible very well sire.2 Likes |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by udatso: 9:32pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
golpen:I just love the way you handle truthman, mintayo and their likes. May Allah(SWT) reward you abundantly for your jihad...you have given them explanations but they never came here for explanations....so when people argue with jahl and karh, you let them be. Tnx brother...Ramadan kareem 2 Likes |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 9:47pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
golpen: |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 10:18pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
golpen: Please note the following: 1. And God said........... Such are words coming directly from God Himself. 2. Thus saith the Lord....... Such are words from God's prophets as received from God being relayed to the to the people. 3. And David or Jerimiah or Joel said........ Such are words from individuals (prophets or anybody) narrating an event, which might differ from one another. The no. 3 is where the bible critics dwell wrongly. If an individual said something in his personal capacity and it differs from the opinion of another also in his personal capacity, do you blame God for that? Are they not humans? Apart from that most of what you people term contradictions are not but due to ignorance. I think I have taken time to explain some of them you brought up as contractions before. Isn't that true? But the quran that is said to be the revealed words of allah is expected to be errors and contraditions free. We do not expected God to make mistakes or commit blunders. Isn't it? I should acknowledge that your writings are fine and your explanations understandable. But unfortunately, they do not just answer my questions. For example, what have you said to defend the contradictions highlighted in this thread so far? You only said you are not ready for argument but did not stop talking. What is your talking about if not argument. You don't intend to drink palmwine but would not remove your hand from the keg (just a Yoruba proverb). 1 Like |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 11:05pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
udatso: May ALLAH increase you in knowledge and help strengthen your deen too my brother. It is not their fault, its just that they can't help but to come here and blabber about their lustful ignorance. Imagine truthman saying he gave away horses, which accounts for the contradicting figures refering to the same incident. Very ridiculous of him. Anyway, let's enjoy the rest of our ramadan in fruithful ibadah to ALLAH...may HE accept it 4rm us. ramadan mubarakun my brother. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 11:27pm On Jul 24, 2013 |
truthman2012: Like this time, I'm not in for any arguments with you. And that is what you christians lack. Simple understanding. Have I ever argued on this thread like I said? hopefully I think you quote me expecting a reply and Thanks for acknowledging my writings. You have not sire...I'm still fresh enough to remember you agreed they were human errors. The explanation you gave about "women keeping silent in churches" with the verses you tried to bring up to back your wife's license still deeps you in the hot tea of the contradictions of the bible your bible revisers are yet to reconcile. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 9:06am On Jul 25, 2013 |
truthman2012: And seriously I think @mintayo deserves this explanation of yours. And I should appreciate the fact that you are proverbially conscious. Your points 1 and 2 clearly means that God is being reported, and if you agree that human are fallible, then that is called 'oro okeere'- a reported speech which is either exaggerated or relegated. And besides, a worthy scripture revealed by a true GOD should not be contaminated by the fallible and indecent statements of men. GOD is so filthless than that. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 10:35am On Jul 25, 2013 |
golpen: Then let us go back to the issue at hand. If you have anything against the bible, open a thread for discussion. I will not ignore it as you are doing. By implication you have accepted that allah was inconsistent, which is not expected of the TRUE God. You appear to be the most intelligent among the muslims I have been discussing with on NL. Keep it up but for the true God so that your labour will not be in vain. Get your name removed from the list of those destined for hell. Thank you. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by usisky(m): 11:27am On Jul 25, 2013 |
[size=13pt] Peace to the OP and everybody else! @OP, please refer to the following thread in which i had earlier refuted this SATANIC idea of abrogation of verses in the Qur'an: THE CONSPIRACY OF ABROGATION Here is an excerpt from that: Abrogations or Contradictions? The lie invented by the Muslim scholars suggests that some Quranic verses have been abrogated by other verses. On the other hand, the non-Muslim writers claim that these cases, and other cases they put forward, are in fact contradictions inside the Quran. Consequently, they use these cases as evidence to refute the divinity of the Quran. It is noted that the examples used by Muslim scholars as ‘abrogated verses’ are not always the verses used by non-Muslim writers and which they simply refer to as ‘contradictions in the Quran’. Although it can be said that the common aspect shared by the two groups is their poor understanding of the Quran, yet it can also be added that in the case of the non-Muslim writers, and particularly those who do not speak Arabic, we often find many of their claims for contradictions to be a product of their acquisition of corrupted and misleading translations of the Quran. Both of these types of false claims can be dealt with in the light of the Quran. It can be demonstrated that these claims are no more than cases of poor understanding of the book. Abrogation claims of Muslim Scholars "A.L.R. This is a book whose verses have been perfected" [Sura 11, verse 1] "……the words of God are unchangeable" [10:64] Although God asserts that the Quran is perfect and harbours no contradictions, yet sadly these scholars have invented the greatest lie about the Quran, claiming that there are verses in the Quran that abrogate and invalidate other verses. They base their claim on a corrupted interpretation of two verses: FIRST VERSE 2:106 "Whichever Ayah We relinquish or cause to be forgotten We replace it with its equal or with that which is greater, did you not know that God is capable of all things?" [2:106] What the interpreters claim is that this verse confirms that some Quranic verses are invalidated by others. They interpret ‘Ayah’ in this verse to mean a verse in the Quran. However the word Ayah, as used in the Quran, can have one of four different meanings: a) It could mean a miracle from God as in: "And We supported Moses with nine profound Ayah’s (miracles)." [17:101] b) It could also mean an example for people to take heed from as in: "And the folk of Noah, when they disbelieved the messengers, We have drowned them and set an Ayah (example) of them for all people." [25:37] c) The word ‘Ayah’ can also mean a sign as in: "He said, ‘My Lord, give me an ‘Ayah’ (sign).’ He said, ‘Your Ayah is that you will not speak to people for three consecutive nights." [19:10] d) It could mean a verse in the Quran, as in: "This is a book that We have sent down to you that is sacred, perhaps they will reflect on its ‘Ayat’ (verses)."[b/][ 38:29] Now if we consider verse 106 of Sura 2, we can easily spot that the word ‘Ayah’ in this particular verse could not mean a verse in the Quran. It can mean any of the other meanings (miracle, example or sign) but not a verse in the Quran. This is because of the following reasons: 1) The words "cause to be forgotten" could not be applicable if the word[b] ‘Ayah’ in this verse meant a verse in the Quran. How can a verse in the Quran become forgotten? For even if the verse was invalidated by another (as the interpreters falsely claim) it will still be part of the Quran and thus could never be forgotten. 2) The words "We replace it with its equal" would be meaningless if the word[b] ‘Ayah’[/b] in this verse meant a Quranic verse, simply because it would make no sense for God to invalidate one verse then replace it with one that is identical to it! 3) If the word ‘Ayah’ in verse 106 meant a miracle an example or a sign, then all the words of the verse would make perfect sense. The words "cause to be forgotten" can apply to all three meanings and that is what actually happens with the passing of time. The miracles of Moses and Jesus have long been forgotten. We only believe in them because they are mentioned in the Quran. Similarly the words "We replace with its equal or with that which is greater" is in line with the miracles of God. God indeed replaces one miracle with its equal or with one that is greater than it. Consider the following verse : "And We have sent Moses with Our Ayah’s (miracles or signs) to Pharaoh and his elders proclaiming : ‘I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe’. When he brought them our Ayah’s they laughed at him. Every Ayah We showed them was greater than the one that preceded it."[ 43:46-48 ] SECOND VERSE [16:101] "When We substitute one Ayat (revelation) in place of another, and God is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, 'You made this up'. Indeed most of them do not know" The substitution spoken of here is concerned with one of two things: a) The substitution of one Scripture in place of another. b)The substitution of one verse or law within a Scripture with another in a subsequent Scripture a- The first meaning is given evidence to in the following verse: "Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them." 5:48 Here, the words "superseding them." confirm that the previous scripture were substituted with the Quran. b- The second meaning is also given evidence to in the Quran where various issues that were prohibited to the previous people of the book were made lawful in the Quran.......................Continue Reading www.submission.org www.masjidtucson.org www.quranalone.com www.miracleof19.org PEACE!! [/size] 2 Likes |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 12:41pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
@ usisky Thanks for your explanations. I do not agree that revelations of God's words are miracles as muslims claim. God had been revealing His words to mandkind long before the invention of islam, which were not considered as miracles. GOD's REVELATIONS ARE ONLY FOR INSTRUCTIONS AND CORRECTIONS. MIRACLES CANNOT BE REPLACED, ONCE THEY HAPPEN THEY HAPPEN AND BIGGER ONES CAN HAPPEN SUBSEQUENTLY AND THE FIRST ONES WILL STILL BE ON RECORD. Where are the replaced revelations? What are miracles? They are God's healing power and His salvation from sudden dangers. Miracles are visible events in human lives, not abstract as in revelations. The question remains why would allah change his revelations by replacement if there are no mistakes in the earlier ones? It could be for manipulation purposes. If he did not cause the earlier revelations to be forgotten, where are they? Even if they were miracles (though not), where are the miracles as miracles are not abstract? Thank you once again. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 2:17pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
truthman2012: Why do I need to open a thread discussing the bible's dilemma, when you have already agreed with me that there are thousands of faults therein. Do you expect me to waste my time while you give me cock and bull stories of presenting horses as gifts for king james? I'm sure you don't even want me to do that. The thing is; I don't find christianity as a match for islam but still, your religion is for you and mine for me. It is you that should keep your mind off your hatred for the muslims and islam, antagonising a faultless scripture. It will never help you improve. Read your pickthall translation with the footnotes and references, ask your questions with a rational mind and pray (even in your christian way) that, that true GOD you crave shows you the way. I'm sure HE will Thanks for the compliments sire. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 9:01pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
golpen: There is no fault in the bible. I have explained to you but you pretended as if you didn't understand. Remember you have said nothing to defend these particular contradictions. I'm sure you wouldn't have forgotten what happened in my thread "Contradictions In Quran (Part 1)". You also would remember what happened in Part 2 before it was quickly deleted to avoid creating uproar in islam. I wonder why you still can say am antagonizing a faultless scripture, when infact there are volumes of fault in the revelations of allah. Finally if you are not ready to tell me and other readers why allah kept chainging his words after he had boasted that his words cannot change, I put it to you that allah is not the true God, the owner of heaven. Thank you. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 10:22pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
truthman2012: There is no fault in the bible, only human errors. You seem not to understand your own self on this. Not too good for you anyway. I don't need to try to explain to a mind that is not willing to get explanation. Haven't you ever thought of why Jesus christ cursed that fig tree?, it refused to bear fruits!!! What happened on your thread "contradictions in the Quran?" Cannot be judged by you. We have the readers to do their personal conclusions. However, we may have bias views from both sides, but a rational mind would have been able to deduce that you got a well served explanation. I, Just like Jesus christ in the bible, will not sit under the fig tree that has refused to bear fruits. I'll rather leave you with your opinion and stick to mine. Buh wait; don't you think you should take a break from calling a thread that is supposed to b only for muslims? |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by golpen(m): 10:25pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
truthman2012: There is no fault in the bible, only human errors. You seem not to understand your own self on this. Not too good for you anyway. I don't need to try to explain to a mind that is not willing to get explanation. Haven't you ever thought of why Jesus christ cursed that fig tree?, it refused to bear fruits!!! What happened on your thread "contradictions in the Quran?" Cannot be judged by you. We have the readers to do their personal conclusions. However, we may have bias views from both sides, but a rational mind would have been able to deduce that you got a well served explanation. I, Just like Jesus christ in the bible, will not sit under the fig tree that has refused to bear fruits. I'll rather leave you with your opinion and stick to mine. Buh wait; don't you think you should take a break from calling a thread that is supposed to b only for muslims? |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by truthman2012(m): 11:34am On Jul 26, 2013 |
golpen: Why do I have to take a break when there are soo many unanswered questions in islam? Look at this particular thread, which you are dodging and after a few weeks later you will say there were well deserved answers I have got. Tell me what are the answers? Everyone should be concerned about the religious affairs going on around him. If islam never existed in Nigeria, we would not have Boko Haram. We once had Maitasine and many other dangerous islamic sects killing the innocent. Are those not serious problems? Why should anyone sleep when there is fire in the house roof? I wonder why you talked about Jesus cursing a tree. Of what importance is a tree that you have so much mercy for it and have no mercy for millions of human lives wasted by Muhammad? 2 Likes |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by udatso: 3:21pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
Although, I didn't plan to reply you on this but since you are fond of assigning victories to yourself whenever you are ignored when you argue sentimentally, I decided to quickly chip in this so as for people with clear heads to see that the answers you demanded were provided but you ignored them. Now to the point. Muslims believe in the theory of abrogation, i.e. they believe that certain earlier verses of the Qur'an were abrogated by verses revealed later. Does this imply that God made a mistake and later on corrected it? Allah says in the following verse: "None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?"2:106 A reference to this is also made in chapter 16 verse 101 of Surah Nahl. The Arabic word mentioned is ayat which means 'signs' or 'verses' and which can also mean 'revelations'. This verse of the Qur'an can be interpreted in two different ways: a. The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur'an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel. Here Allah (swt) says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur'an. b. If we consider that the Arabic word ayat in the above verse refers to the verses of the Qur'an, and not previous revelations, then it indicates that none of the verses of the Qur'an are abrogated by Allah but substituted with something better or similar. This means that certain verses of the Qur'an, that were revealed earlier were substituted by verses that were revealed later. I agree with both the interpretations. Many Muslims and non-Muslims misunderstand the secondinterpretation to mean that some of the earlier verses of the Qur'an were abrogated and no longer hold true for us today, as they have been replaced by the later verses of the Qur'an or the abrogating verses which is not true... Let us analyze a few such examples.. (A)Produce a recital like the Qur'an / 10 Surahs / 1 Surah: Some pagan Arabs alleged that the Qur'an was forged by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Allah (swt) challenges these Arabs in the following verse of Surah Al-Isra: "Say: If the whole of Mankind and Jinns were together to produce the like of thisQur'an they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support." [Al-Qur'an 17:88] Later the challenge was made easy in the following verse of Surah Al-Hud: "Or they may say, "He forged it." Say, "Bring ye then ten Surahs forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsover ye can, other than Allah, if ye speak the truth!." [Al-Qur'an 11:13] It was made easier in the following verse of Surah Yunus: "Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say: "Bring then a Surah like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can, besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!." [Al-Qur'an 10:38] Finally in Surah Al-Baqarah, Allah (swt) further simplified the challenge: And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot 'then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones' which is prepared for those who reject faith".[Al-Qur'an 2:23-24] Thus Allah (swt) made the challenges progressively easier. The progressively revealed verses of the Qur'an first challenged the pagans to produce a book like the Qur'an, then challenged them to produce ten Surahs (chapters) like those in the Qur'an, then one Surah and finally it challenges them to produce one Surah somewhat similar (mimmislihi) to the Qur'anic Surahs. This does not mean that the later verses that were revealed i.e. of Surah Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24 contradict the earlier three verses. Contradiction implies mentioning two things that cannot be possible simultaneously, or cannot take place simultaneously. The earlier verses of the Qur'an i.e. the abrogated verses are still the word of God and the information contained in it is true to this day. For instance the challenge to produce a recital like the Qur'an stands to this day. Similarly the challenge to produce ten Surahs and one Surah exactly like the Qur'an also holds true and the last challenge of producing one surah somewhat similar to the Qur'an also holds true. It does not contradict the earlier challenges, but this is the easiest of all the challenges posed by the Qur'an. If the last challenge cannot be fulfilled, the question of anyone fulfilling the other three more difficult challenges does not arise. Suppose I speak about a person that he is so dumb, that he would not be able to pass the 10th standard in school. Later I say that he would not be able to pass the 5th standard, and further say that he would not be able to pass even the 1st standard. Finally I say that he is so dull that he would not even be able to pass K.G. i.e. kindergarten. One has to pass kindergarten before one can be admitted to school. What I am stating is that the person is so dull as to be unable to pass even kindergarten. My four statements do not contradict each other, but my last statement i.e. the person would not be able to pass the kindergarten is sufficient to indicate the intelligence of that person. If a person cannot even pass kindergarten, the question of him passing the first standard or 5th or 10th, does not arise. |
| Re: Explanations Wanted!!! by udatso: 3:30pm On Jul 26, 2013 |
(B) Gradual prohibition of intoxicants Another example of such verses is that related to gradual prohibition of intoxicants. The first revelation of the Qur'an to deal with intoxicants was the following verse from Surah Baqarah: "They ask thee concerning wine and gambling say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." [Al-Qur'an 2:219] The next verse to be revealed regarding intoxicants is the following verse from Surah Nisa: "O ye who believe! approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say" [Al-Qur'an 4:43] The last verse to be revealed regarding intoxicants was the following verse from Surah Al-Maidah: "O ye who believe! intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination of Satan's handiwork; eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper." [Al-Qur'an 5:90] The Qur'an was revealed over a period of 22½ years. Many reforms that were brought about in the society were gradual. This was to facilitate the adoption of new laws by the people. An abrupt change in society always leads to rebellion and anarchy. The prohibition of intoxicants was revealed in three stages. The first revelation only mentioned that in the intoxicants there is great sin and some profit but the sin is greater than the profit. The next revelation prohibited praying in an intoxicated state, indicating that one should not consume intoxicants during the day, since a Muslim has to pray five times a day. This verse does state that when one is not praying at night one is allowed to consume intoxicants. It means one may have or one may not have. The Qur'an does not comment on it. If this verse had mentioned that one is allowed to have intoxicants while not praying then there would have been a contradiction. Allah (swt) chose words appropriately. Finally the total prohibition of intoxicants at all times was revealed in Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 90. This clearly indicates that the three verses do not contradict each other. Had they been contradicting, it would not have been possible to follow all the three verses simultaneously. Since a Muslim is expected to follow each and every verse of the Qur'an, only by following the last verse i.e. of Surah Maidah (5:90), he simultaneously agrees and follows the previous two verses. Suppose I say that I do not live in Los Angeles. Later I say that I do not live in California. Finally I say, I do not live in the United States of America. This does not imply that these three statements contradict each other. Each statement gives more information than the previous statement. The third statement includes the information contained in the first two statements. Thus, only by saying that I do not live in the United States of America, it is obvious, that I also do not live in California nor New York. Similarly since consuming alcohol is totally prohibited, it is obvious that praying in an intoxicated state is also prohibited and the information that in intoxicants is "great sin and some profit for men; but the sin is greater than profit" also holds true. (C). Qur’an does not contain any contradictions The theory of abrogation does not imply that there is a contradiction in the Qur'an, since it is possible to follow all the verses of the Qur'an at the same time. If there is a contradiction in the Qur'an, then it cannot be the word of Allah (swt). "Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy (contradictions)." [Al- Qur'an 4:82] 2 Likes |
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