Romans 13:14

But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

italo: Amen! Amen! 1 Corinthians 9:27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

[cf. NIV, Beck: "beat"; NEB: "bruise"; Williams: "beating and bruising"; Barclay: "batter"; NASB: "buffet"; NRSV: "punish"; NKJV: "discipline"; Wuest: "I beat my body black and blue and make it my abject slave"; Amplified: "I buffet my body -- handle it roughly, discipline it by hardships -- and subdue it"; Goodspeed: "I beat and bruise my body and make it my slave"; Moffatt: "I maul and master my body" ]

It was St Paul who said so, not Italo.

italo: Amen! Amen!


Ezekiel 4:1-8 "And you, O son of man, take a brick and lay it before you, and portray upon it a city, even Jerusalem; [2] and put siegeworks against it, and build a siege wall against it, and cast up a mound against it; set camps also against it, and plant battering rams against it round about. [3] And take an iron plate, and place it as an iron wall between you and the city; and set your face toward it, and let it be in a state of siege, and press the siege against it. This is a sign for the house of Israel. [4] "Then lie upon your left side, and I will lay the punishment of the house of Israel upon you; for the number of the days that you lie upon it, you shall bear their punishment. [5] For I assign to you a number of days, three hundred and ninety days, equal to the number of the years of their punishment; so long shall you bear the punishment of the house of Israel. [6] And when you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side, and bear the punishment of the house of Judah; forty days I assign you, a day for each year. [7] And you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem, with your arm bared; and you shall prophesy against the city. [8] And, behold, I will put cords upon you, so that you cannot turn from one side to the other, till you have completed the days of your siege."

It was prophet Ezekiel that said so, not Italo.

italo: Amen! Amen!

Jeremiah 41:5 eighty men arrived from Shechem and Shiloh and Sama'ria, with their beards shaved and their clothes torn, and their bodies gashed, bringing cereal offerings and incense to present at the temple of the LORD.

Jeremiah says so, not Italo.

italo: Amen! Amen!

Ezra 9:1-8 After these things had been done, the officials approached me and said, "The people of Israel and the priests and the Levites have not separated themselves from the peoples of the lands with their abominations, from the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Per'izzites, the Jeb'usites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. [2] For they have taken some of their daughters to be wives for themselves and for their sons; so that the holy race has mixed itself with the peoples of the lands. And in this faithlessness the hand of the officials and chief men has been foremost." [3] When I heard this, I rent my garments and my mantle, and pulled hair from my head and beard, and sat appalled. [4] Then all who trembled at the words of the God of Israel, because of the faithlessness of the returned exiles, gathered round me while I sat appalled until the evening sacrifice. [5] And at the evening sacrifice I rose from my fasting, with my garments and my mantle rent, and fell upon my knees and spread out my hands to the LORD my God, [6] saying: "O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift my face to thee, my God, for our iniquities have risen higher than our heads, and our guilt has mounted up to the heavens. [7] From the days of our fathers to this day we have been in great guilt; and for our iniquities we, our kings, and our priests have been given into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, to plundering, and to utter shame, as at this day. [8] But now for a brief moment favor has been shown by the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant, and to give us a secure hold within his holy place, that our God may brighten our eyes and grant us a little reviving in our bondage. (cf. Jer 48:37)

Ezra says so, not Italo.

italo: Amen! Amen!

Penance and mortification is rooted in scripture.

2 Samuel 12:16-17 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in and lay all night upon the ground. [17] And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them.

2 Samuel says so, not Italo.

italo:

2 Samuel says so, not Italo.

Try something else. David in sign of repentance was asking God to spare the child of his extra affairs and that prayer was not answered by God. God never instructed him or by extension any Christian to pray laying on the floor or using sharp objects on ourselves

By the way, Mortification isn't a praying method.

italo:

Ezra says so, not Italo.

Ezra was mourning, again God didn't instruct him to use spikes on himself or do mortification.

italo:

Jeremiah says so, not Italo.

They were morning and not using mortification to attain spiritual benefit

italo:

It was prophet Ezekiel that said so, not Italo.

Again you lied, this has nothing to do with spiritual subdue or subdue of the flesh. You are good at quoting scriptures without relevance to the subject matter.

italo:

It was St Paul who said so, not Italo.

Another lie, subdue in that sentence was used figuratively and unless for someone who intentionally wish to lack understanding, that verse as nothing to do with mortification. I why don't you take 'run', 'striveth', 'beath' literal?.

1 cor 9 vs 24-26
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

superior1:

Try something else. David in sign of repentance was asking God to spare the child of his extra affairs and that prayer was not answered by God. God never instructed him or by extension any Christian to pray laying on the floor or using sharp objects on ourselves

By the way, Mortification isn't a praying method.

italo: Amen! Amen!

Penance and mortification is rooted in scripture.

2 Samuel 12:16-17 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in and lay all night upon the ground. [17] And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground; but he would not, nor did he eat food with them.

Argue with the Holy Spirit, not me.

italo: Amen! Amen!

Ezra 9:1-8 After these things had been done, the officials approached me and said, "The people of Israel and the priests and the Levites have not separated themselves from the peoples of the lands with their abominations, from the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Per'izzites, the Jeb'usites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. [2] For they have taken some of their daughters to be wives for themselves and for their sons; so that the holy race has mixed itself with the peoples of the lands. And in this faithlessness the hand of the officials and chief men has been foremost." [3] When I heard this, I rent my garments and my mantle, and pulled hair from my head and beard, and sat appalled. [4] Then all who trembled at the words of the God of Israel, because of the faithlessness of the returned exiles, gathered round me while I sat appalled until the evening sacrifice. [5] And at the evening sacrifice I rose from my fasting, with my garments and my mantle rent, and fell upon my knees and spread out my hands to the LORD my God, [6] saying: "O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift my face to thee, my God, for our iniquities have risen higher than our heads, and our guilt has mounted up to the heavens. [7] From the days of our fathers to this day we have been in great guilt; and for our iniquities we, our kings, and our priests have been given into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, to plundering, and to utter shame, as at this day. [8] But now for a brief moment favor has been shown by the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant, and to give us a secure hold within his holy place, that our God may brighten our eyes and grant us a little reviving in our bondage. (cf. Jer 48:37)

superior1:

Ezra was mourning, again God didn't instruct him to use spikes on himself or do mortification.

Argue with the prophet.

italo: Amen! Amen!

Jeremiah 41:5 eighty men arrived from Shechem and Shiloh and Sama'ria, with their beards shaved and their clothes torn, and their bodies gashed, bringing cereal offerings and incense to present at the temple of the LORD.

superior1:

They were morning and not using mortification to attain spiritual benefit

Argue with Jeremiah.

superior1:

Again you lied, this has nothing to do with spiritual subdue or subdue of the flesh. You are good at quoting scriptures without relevance to the subject matter.

italo: Amen! Amen!


Ezekiel 4:1-8 "And you, O son of man, take a brick and lay it before you, and portray upon it a city, even Jerusalem; [2] and put siegeworks against it, and build a siege wall against it, and cast up a mound against it; set camps also against it, and plant battering rams against it round about. [3] And take an iron plate, and place it as an iron wall between you and the city; and set your face toward it, and let it be in a state of siege, and press the siege against it. This is a sign for the house of Israel. [4] "Then lie upon your left side, and I will lay the punishment of the house of Israel upon you; for the number of the days that you lie upon it, you shall bear their punishment. [5] For I assign to you a number of days, three hundred and ninety days, equal to the number of the years of their punishment; so long shall you bear the punishment of the house of Israel. [6] And when you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side, and bear the punishment of the house of Judah; forty days I assign you, a day for each year. [7] And you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem, with your arm bared; and you shall prophesy against the city. [8] And, behold, I will put cords upon you, so that you cannot turn from one side to the other, till you have completed the days of your siege."

Argue with Ezekiel.

"Mortification of the flesh is the institutional expiatory act of a person or group's penance for atonement of sins and path to sanctity. The term is primarily used in religious and spiritual contexts. The practice is found in many cultures, most notably the Roman Catholic Church and their penitential saints. Common forms of mortification includes flagellation, in imitation of Jesus Christ's suffering and death by crucifixion. Other forms are fasting, carrying heavy loads and immersion in water which are found in some Asian cultures"
"One of the methods which Christian asceticism employs in training the soul to virtuous and holy living. The term originated with St. Paul, who traces an instructive analogy between Christ dying to a mortal and rising to animmortal life, and His followers who renounce their past life of sin and rise through grace to a new life of holiness. "If you live after the flesh", says the apostle, "you shall die, but if through the spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live" (Romans 8:13; cf. also Colossians 3:5, and Galatians 5:24). From this original use of the term, we see that mortification, though under one aspect it is a law of death, under another and more fundamental aspect it is a law of life, and does not destroy but elevates nature. What it slays is the disease of the soul, and byslaying this it restores and invigorates the soul's true life."
"In its simplest form, mortification of the flesh can mean merely denying oneself certain pleasures, such as permanently or temporarily abstaining from alcoholic beverages, sexual relations, or any area of life that makes the person's spiritual life more difficult or burdensome. It can also be practiced by choosing a simple or even impoverished lifestyle; this is often one reason many monks of various religions take vows of poverty."

What is your problem with Catholic? @op

From the english children dictionary, Mortification simply means discipline oneself (body, mind, appetite etc), by supressing bad desires or act... while
Penance is a VOLUNTARY self-impound punishment for a sinful act of wrong doin...
@OP smtyms i 1da if its ur hatred 4 d catholic church dat clouds ur reasonin or u fail 2carry out research b4 gettin 2a logical conclusion...***no offence intended***...

It beta u channel ur tym nd efforts on beta tins dan wot u ve bin doin... Peace b wit thou..

Superior1 just can't help it. Trying hard to prove what you don't understand?

@italo You said it well, he should go and argue with the Holy Spirit. St Paul, Prophet Jeremiah and co.

But really in this age and time when people have become very selfish and self gratification is the order of the day, there is need for a little mortification to bring you back to your senses. Self imposed suffering is an avenue for you to learn to appreciate what you have. How much more when you do it because you desire to be closer to God. A common form is fasting. But you can desire to mortify in other means eg walking Instead of taking the bus.

babestell: But really in this age and time when people have become very selfish and self gratification is the order of the day, there is need for a little mortification to bring you back to your senses. Self imposed suffering is an avenue for you to learn to appreciate what you have. How much more when you do it because you desire to be closer to God. A common form is fasting. But you can desire to mortify in other means eg walking Instead of taking the bus.

Galatians 5:16

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

babestell: But really in this age and time when people have become very selfish and self gratification is the order of the day, there is need for a little mortification to bring you back to your senses. Self imposed suffering is an avenue for you to learn to appreciate what you have. How much more when you do it because you desire to be closer to God. A common form is fasting. But you can desire to mortify in other means eg walking Instead of taking the bus.

My nephew in pry 1 read dis beautiful.write up nd understood it immediately, hw much more an adult wit hairs scatterd over his chest nd armpit

superior1:

Galatians 5:16

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Stil defendn wot is obvious??

**Shit on d thread nd leave thru d backdoor**

Abi should I post another verse that shows that penance and mortification are scriptural?

Another verse superior never knew existed?

I only stopped to save him the obvious embarassment. He's still a human being afterall.

Na animals dem they treat without dignity.

But when human beings begin behave like animals........

italo: Abi should I post another verse that shows that penance and mortification are scriptural?

Another verse superior never knew existed?

I only stopped to save him the obvious embarassment. He's still a human being afterall.

Na animals dem they treat without dignity.

But when human beings begin behave like animals........

Keep fooling yourself and in your frustration revert to gutter talk (BTW,you don't have monopoly on that)

Post any scriptural verse that commands Christians to flog themselves so as to remain spiritual and try not to lie doing that.

You think I will glorify you by arguing with you?

Argue with the Holy Spirit.

superior1:




I hope you understand now, take time to study more of your church doctrines perhaps you will see the heresies we have been telling you guys about.

By the way, how many whipping have you given yourself?

those aren't doctrines they are practices. Mortification is preached but the method you use is your own personal practice. Mortify ur flesh as is compartible with ur state of life.

Ubenedictus: those aren't doctrines they are practices. Mortification is preached but the method you use is your own personal practice. Mortify ur flesh as is compartible with ur state of life.

You mean giving yourself blue and black beating isn't one of the Catholic way of mortification? Should I cite an example of a Catholic saint??

And I will cite a BIBLE verse.

superior1:

You mean giving yourself blue and black beating isn't one of the Catholic way of mortification? Should I cite an example of a Catholic saint??

italo already gave the passage where paul say i pomel my flesh, i beat myself.

Superior1, superior1, May all bear me witness that I taught you this prayer more than once "Lord teach me to keep my mouth shut, until I know what I am talking about"

Glory to Jesus Honour to Mary,

All Thanks to God for I'm alive to read this topic

thanks to our saints for practising Mortification and penance and leaving that pious act for us to emulate

thanks to seun For creating this forum of which I've come to learn more and increase my faith

thanks to superior1 for he could'nt help hating catholicsim and has finally indirectly resolved to evangelism of which came wisdom and faithbuilding.

To be frank with thou superior1 this topic of thou aimed at casting aspersions on catholicism have thought me that I'm still a learner in the practice of mortification and penance, i really ought to Do more.

Thanks to your post, I've also come to know that sister Lucy and her little lilies (of blessed memory) practiced mortification and the Most blessed Virgin Mary said heaven is pleased with that.

I sincerely look forward to your next anti-catholic topic as it makes me and others better catholics.

@ italo, sal c, ubenedictus, syncan and co, it behoves us to Give offerings to superior1 for threads like this. ( please email me your bank details @ superior1 )

Finally this thread had made more explicit to me, the reason why God permits Evil. For HE wouldn't permit evil if he has no intention of bringing Good out of it. We need more persecutors like superior1 for out of their sheer aspersions comes the building up of faith and understanding for the people of God. Peace




@ superior1
on a second thought, this Topic ought to be your worst nightmare as things didn't turn out the way you anticipated