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Tuesday Summit: Varsity degree not superior to HND – ASUP President



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Dr. Asomugha Chibuzor
[By Isah Idris]
Dr. Asomugha Chibuzor is the National President, Academic Staff Union of Polytechnics (ASUP). In this interview with Isah Idris, in Abuja, he spoke on the disparities between university and polytechnic education, the dangers in scrapping of NECO, UTME, and the need to strenghten basic primary education in the country and other issues. Excerpts
There has been effort to bridge the gap and the dichotomy between the products of polytechnics, colleges of education and that of universities. What is the latest development on the issue? 
We have actually been invited by the Minister of Education because there has been this agitation over the years. Actually the core of the problem is the relationship between polytechnics and universities and the mindset of the Nigerian public, even our policy makers on the worth of the certificates both systems awards.
You know, there have been some kind of discriminations in the labour market, such that even the Stephen Orosanye himself when he was head of service tried to effect some changes. It is part of what the former President Olusegun Obasanjo tried to do, to give the same status to both polytechnics, colleges of education and universities.
Orosanye when he was the head of civil service didn’t want the discrimination to be. And we are saying that, there has to be a bridging of the dichotomy so that graduates of polytechnics will also have the same esteem, and by this, the society and the polytechnic system would survive. We have discovered that because of this discrimination even in the work places, the diploma is made to appear substandard, so that people don’t want the situation any longer, where degree is rated above HND.
Lecturers get qualified in this system (Polytechnics and Colleges of Education) and they go away to other system where perhaps they get more recognition.  So, that was the idea behind the Dual Mode institution. In the polytechnics, if they are qualified in their areas of strength, they can actually award degrees.
However, I have always insisted that it is a matter of nomenclature and the character and as a matter of fact, it was the certification in both systems. There is nothing that says that, what we call degrees would not be applicable to technical education. There is nothing that says that but we are looking at it differently, people are building empires and egos are rising about this matter. It’s a question of nomenclature, its semantics
In other countries, it is not done that way. PHD is a PHD anywhere. If somebody made a PHD and is teaching in a Polytechnic, does the PHD become inferior because he is in a polytechnic? Certainly, not so, that is just the position. So, we believe in what the Minister of Education is doing, if the other grey areas are worked out properly, we should be able to progress on this front.
 What level have you reached with the Minister and what are the next steps forward?
It is not the question of agreement. Her mindset actually is that in some forms, we should start the process of awarding degrees but what we are pursuing is that there are larger issues to be reconciled, like the structures, like we have talked of the regulatory body. Who would regulate these programmes, are we going to have dual regulation under NUC or under NBTE or under NCCE so, these are some of the issues that have to be worked out.
And then, there are policies. There are laws that have to be amended, because there are so many things to be touched. Then, we are also talking of nomenclature of the teaching staffs in the College of Education and the Polytechnics. Not just the nomenclatures, where you don’t have professors, you don’t have readers in polytechnics and colleges of education. All you have is principal lecturers, chief lecturers, which do not exist anywhere globally. So, what we are saying is that, set the same standard for everybody, but let us have access to degree education as we know it. Let the same standard be set for all sectors in the tertiary institution, as a matter of fact, this level should apply initially as a starting point.
And we are also saying that, technical education if we are really serious should be given a peculiar character in the Nigerian context. And even if it means given it at a level that we call it first degree, let it come at that level also.
How many polytechnics will be affected in the proposed award of degrees status for now?
What they did initially and which we protested against was to choose Yaba College of Technology and Kaduna Polytechnic and they wanted to convert them to universities and we said, this conversion to universities is not the solution. And this is where the Dual Mode idea comes up, as an option to conversion issue.
[HND holders are better managers in  industries, says Chibuzor]
 
Because, if you want to convert, there are so many polytechnics that are qualified in a particular area and that is why we said, you may have a polytechnic that is better than other institutions in just one programme. Even if that programme is in the university, that polytechnic in her area of strength should be able to admit students since JAMB has so many student applicants. Why wouldn’t that Polytechnic admit students in B.TECH in that area and if not, how do you think the lecturers wouldn’t run away again. If actually those polytechnic can admit students in B.TECH degree programme, the students will be proud to be there, the esteem of the polytechnic will rise in the eyes of Nigerian public and the employers. This would be all round.
As the National President of Association of Staff Union of Polytechnic, what is your take on the ongoing discussion to scrap the two external examination bodies, the NECO and UMTE?
I have always said we would not comment on that particularly issue, we want to comment on the whole of Orosanya report. The issues that the Federal Government would want to address in the Orosanya report touch the lives of people, it touches the lives of Nigerians including; parents, students and the lives of pensioners.
In this issue, there are cost implications; there are generational repercussions for jobs that may be lost. What we are saying is that, it is not bad that the government wants improvement but the consideration for improvement must not always be a cut in cost of governance.  And if they want to do this, let there be stakeholders’ conference and consent for any of such matter, so that, government will hear from the people, who are to be affected by the policies. Because people can just sit on their stools and take decisions, you don’t know and you don’t mind how it affects the people and these actions would always results in policy summersault.
You want to scrap NECO but NECO was set up for a purpose. Has that purpose been taken care of? JAMB was set up for a purpose. Has that purpose been taken care of? For instance, if JAMB stops operating UMTE, what the implication means is that, we will return to chronic difficulties in getting admissions. Many students would now have to buy forms and take it to so many universities again and some parents will obviously not be able to afford this expenditure.
So, I think government should be wise enough to call people, stakeholders together, listen to them, take inputs from the streets, from the real people before they can now begin to release white paper and take proper decision. That is our own position.
Has this Dual Mode in the award of degrees in tertiary institutions, considered the issue of resource verifications in those institutions being considered for implementation?
Of course we are not saying you would just come and give every polytechnics degree awarding status, we shall set the standard. So, whatever the standards are, take them to the polytechnics, whatever the standards you want to set should not be beyond what you have set for the universities. Take them to the polytechnics, put them on the table, let the polytechnics bring their programmes, their personnel, their facilities. Anyone that meets it in their own area of discipline is granted opportunity to run degree courses. How would that be different? That is what we are saying.
Recently I took on some teachers of Primary and Junior Secondary Schools in the FCT on continuous increase in failure among Senior Secondary Students in NECO, WAEC and JAMB and majority felt, they are not contented with the ongoing 9-3-4 curriculum. They insisted, there is no room for serious assessment of pupils and students unlike under the 6-3-3-4 curriculum. What is your view as a principal stakeholder in the education sector?
The major problem we have with Nigeria is not just with education sector but what we call policy tochy-toffy. We just summersault policies as we like. A person would just come, a consultant would bring in one suggestion, one proposal and immediately it is implemented without checking what has happened to the last one. Eventually, we will come back to the previous ones. You see, at a time they scrapped Unity Schools of JSS and said there is only SSS but now, they have come back again to JSS in Unity Schools. So, what I think people in government should actually do is, first of all, let there be sincerity at that level of governance and policy making. It is a question of whose interest are we working for? If it is personal interest we are working for, then we will continue to have these kinds of problems.
Let us work for the interest of Nigerians and the interest of Nigerian child, because, the repercussions are there with us every day. You see, building more universities is not the issue, building more polytechnics is not the issue.
The point is from the primary school level that is where the attention of the government must now return to. Who teaches in the primary schools? Where are they produced? What is the quality of environments where our teachers are produced? If you look at the syllabus, the course contents of programmes in the primary schools now, they are ahead of what they used to be. But the point is that, why are the students not better now than they use to be in those days? It’s a big problem.
These same pupils, these same students, you push them to the polytechnic, you push them to colleges of education and universities and you create problems. Now, you create more universities, you create more polytechnics, you push them in, because we want more access to education. What manner of education?
These are the reasons we are insisting on education that would give competence, skills, relevance and the ability to survive in a changing world. And we think that education has to be technically and technologically tainted. That is just our opinion.
Today we can see a situation where common entrance is no more taken seriously in public schools as a way of assessing pupils before proceeding to junior secondary schools. What does it portend?
These are issues you cannot just say, go ahead or don’t go ahead. When there are common entrances, was anybody failing it, if you come to think of it, you know sometimes there are political and sectional considerations, and they will say move and everybody will move but in the long run, it’s terrible.
We have to restructure what we are doing. Everybody must not go to university. It doesn’t happen like that in developed society, everybody must not go to university.           
How would you differentiate the policy of upgrading the polytechnic to university and the Dual Mode institutions?
It should not be an upgrading; we don’t like upgrading because it makes it sound as if we are inferior. Let’s have dual mode degree because we are doing what we supposed to be doing and we need to do more by allowing polytechnics to award degrees in their areas of strength, because of the increasing demand by Nigerians for quality education.
Polytechnic education is for a purpose and if we can stand for that purpose, it is good for Nigerian economy. There is increasing demand for technical and quality education, because we don’t want to have people acquiring education and are not employable, those who cannot defend their certificate and are not employable. On the issue of discrimination between certificate from polytechnics and that of universities like we have said, is psychological. So, it is just in the mind of Nigerians as some feel degree is superior. Initially, because of this perception, degree holders used to be managers and HND holders used to do the real work. This development actually transformed to one of inferior-superior relationship but this perception cannot continue, because this country is progressing so, people are no more using that.
Even in developing countries outside Nigeria, that dichotomy is not applicable. For instance, when you go to Malaysia, you don’t see degree holders running their industries. It is HND holders with technical background that run the industries.
Virtually, in technically advanced economy, they don’t employ degree holders but HND holders to do the work that has to do with running the affairs of industries and corporations. Until we come back to that world of reality, we cannot achieve the right progress and move forward if we continued to insist on theories. All the people cannot be theorists; other people have to be engaged in production, which technological education is
August 19,
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