Bidam: I don't get your point clearly, but if you re talking about alms-giving and givings to the church they are not the same thing.

No, I think you understand.
Which is the greater good, to give to the ones who already have or to the ones who are lacking?

Reyginus: No, I think you understand.
Which is the greater good, to give to the ones who already have or to the ones who are lacking?

He would never answer this question.

Pastor Kun:

You mean I am spoiling business for you and your cohorts, Ole barawo buruku

I won't bother trading insults with you.evryone knows that's your nature.It's no surprise you are where you are in life since you became a christian.You have not learn anything in the faith.God help you.

^^^
Jesus not only insulted your type by calling them white washed sepulchres, he also flogged them for turn the house of God into a business venture like you and your cohorts have been trying to do.

Pastor Kun:

He would never answer this question.

Did you answer any question I asked you?

And quite frankly, the way you sir, and your followers attend/relate to those opposing your views (though Christians too) is worrisome and unChrist-like.

Pastor Kun: We can't accommodate them because the bible instructs us in very clear terms to rebuke false teachers.

Be guided properly sir. Where is God's love in your above?

Meanwhile I await your response to my post, if I don't see it I'd assume you lack substance and this verse isw for you

Titus 1:10-11,13, AMP

10 For there are many disorderly and unruly men who
are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-
deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true]
especially of those of the circumcision party [who have
come over from Judaism].
11 Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally
distressing and subverting whole families by teaching
what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of
getting base advantage and disreputable gain.

13 And this account of them is [really] true. Because it
is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even
severely with them], so that they may be sound in the
faith and free from error,


I just rebuked you, just sound that you may be sound in the faith, and free from error.

Kind regards sir,
Gombs

Bidam: The bolded. You are still learning.Open your heart and let God liberate you not drummaboy and his nairaland crews.

That quote says nothing of seed sowing. Look here, I am not against giving money to the church in hopes that they would be given to the needy. My own is that sowing seed is a selfish act akin to a gambling machine....God isn't a gambling machine. i mean i think these churches find more and more ways to ''help'' us part ways with our hard earned monies. And why not...besides how's the pastor to afford his new benz latest class. However...mr charles can't even afford a 3 square meal. My church partakes in offertory which involves monday to sunday borns....and that's after taking the 3 rounds of offering already. Then they go on to take offering from people who were born on the respective month; too naive and have been subjected to a brilliant persuasive phase and are glad to give....not because they wanna help the poor...no....but because pastor says so. Stop supporting these schemes of money grabbing and jux do his will as he has commanded....nt twist it to make money.

Side note: i do not know any of the posters here or their accumulated reputation...i'm kindda new here. But i'll support what they say cos i can relate to it as being sensible and ''factual'' than OP's 3 facts of seed sowing. I come here to be intellectually challenged by people who have different views on some religious topics. I saw this thread and i thought to check it out after reading the enticing title. Imagine my surprise when i read the poorly contructed ''facts''

Pastor Kun: ^^^
Jesus not only insulted your type by calling them white washed sepulchres, he also flogged them for turn the house of God into a business venture like you and your cohorts have been trying to do.

The pharisees were not Jesus' fellow believers. Put differently,it's like you dealing with a non-christian. But here you're dealing with fellow christians. Jesus never encouraged such behavior within the family. Instead, He said the evidence of our passing from death to life is if we have LOVE for the BRETHREN. love is an action word. Show love to your brethren, even when you disagree with them. I know that once in a while, we 'lose' it and speak angrily to other christians. But that should not be a consistent manner of relating to the brethren. In fact, the Holy Spirit would minister to your spirit when you cross the line, if you care to heed His voice.

Gombs:

Did you answer any question I asked you?

And quite frankly, the way you sir, and your followers attend/relate to those opposing your views (though Christians too) is worrisome and unChrist-like.




Be guided properly sir. Where is God's love in your above?

Meanwhile I await your response to my post, if I don't see it I'd assume you lack substance and this verse isw for you

Titus 1:10-11,13, AMP

10 For there are many disorderly and unruly men who
are idle (vain, empty) and misleading talkers and self-
deceivers and deceivers of others. [This is true]
especially of those of the circumcision party [who have
come over from Judaism].
11 Their mouths must be stopped, for they are mentally
distressing and subverting whole families by teaching
what they ought not to teach, for the purpose of
getting base advantage and disreputable gain.

13 And this account of them is [really] true. Because it
is [true], rebuke them sharply [deal sternly, even
severely with them], so that they may be sound in the
faith and free from error,


I just rebuked you, just sound that you may be sound in the faith, and free from error.

Kind regards sir,
Gombs

The rebuke in the passage you quoted is applicable to people like you and bidam who are into scriptural manipulation for selfish motive and not those of us contending for the faith.

nlMediator:

The pharisees were not Jesus' fellow believers. Put differently,it's like you dealing with a non-christian. But here you're dealing with fellow christians. Jesus never encouraged such behavior within the family. Instead, He said the evidence of our passing from death to life is if we have LOVE for the BRETHREN. love is an action word. Show love to your brethren, even when you disagree with them. I know that once in a while, we 'lose' it and speak angrily to other christians. But that should not be a consistent manner of relating to the brethren. In fact, the Holy Spirit would minister to your spirit when you cross the line, if you care to heed His voice.

The fact that one labels himself a christian does not automatically make him a true follower of christ. The bible warns us to be wary of wolves in sheeps clothing and expose false teachers/teachings. There is no way to do it nicely, you have to call a spade a spade. That said the Pharisees contrary to your assertion up there, were not only Jesus fellow believers they were the religious leaders of the religion Jesus practised only problem is that they were mostly hypocrites just like a lot of our religious leaders today and Jesus rebuked them very sharply. That said, another point to note is that Jesus did not discriminate btw his followers and others. So if I see a fellow christian falling out of line I am not supposed to cover up for him but rather I should rebuke him and call him to order like Paul did to Peter.

Reyginus: No, I think you understand.
Which is the greater good, to give to the ones who already have or to the ones who are lacking?

Mr.. We are very much aware of the fact that there are false prophets around who milk the sheep but that doesn't negate the fact that genuine pastors are not also around.If you are a true child of God and you attend your local assembly,the pastor shouldn't even mention giving before you give for Church projects and the rest.

As long as you exhibit this gentile mindset of urs that you are giving to man..you re missing it.

Giving just like prayers is an act of your worship to God and not to men.

Bidam: Mr.. We are very much aware of the fact that there are false prophets around who milk the sheep but that doesn't negate the fact that genuine pastors are not also around.If you are a true child of God and you attend your local assembly,the pastor shouldn't even mention giving before you give for Church projects and the rest.

As long as you exhibit this gentile mindset of urs that you are giving to man..you re missing it.

Giving just like prayers is an act of your worship to God and not to men.

They knew all these facts. The argument has been on nairaland for some years, i think it is way of promoting the forum. Silence can never be misquoted.

God bless you.
God2man.

Bidam: Mr.. We are very much aware of the fact that there are false prophets around who milk the sheep but that doesn't negate the fact that genuine pastors are not also around.If you are a true child of God and you attend your local assembly,the pastor shouldn't even mention giving before you give for Church projects and the rest.

As long as you exhibit this gentile mindset of urs that you are giving to man..you re missing it.

Giving just like prayers is an act of your worship to God and not to men.

Lol. Dude stop it please. You know this has nothing to do with the question I asked you.
My question still stands. Which of the two is the greater good?

God2man:

They knew all these facts. The argument has been on nairaland for some years, i think it is way of promoting the forum. Silence can never be misquoted.

God bless you.
God2man.

Yeah i believe you are right. I hope to limit my replies accordingly.God bless you too.

Reyginus: Lol. Dude stop it please. You know this has nothing to do with the question I asked you.
My question still stands. Which of the two is the greater good?

I actually did reply you.But it seems the replies are falling and bouncing off you. IF you are truly a genuine christian who loves the Lord, the argument shouldn't have been this long.The Op and other contributors have replied all your queries.

Bidam: I actually did reply you.But it seems the replies are falling and bouncing off you. IF you are truly a genuine christian who loves the Lord, the argument shouldn't have been this long.The Op and other contributors have replied all your queries.

@reyginus
I told you he would never answer the question

Bidam: I actually did reply you.But it seems the replies are falling and bouncing off you. IF you are truly a genuine christian who loves the Lord, the argument shouldn't have been this long.The Op and other contributors have replied all your queries.

To be frank with you I don't like what you are doing. You are deliberately misfiring. This argument as you'd have it, should be simple and direct. From the best of my memory I have done so. But you are not helping the argument.
You are acting as though you will either defend a false practice than show the opponents of the practice why they are wrong.
The simple question is, between the option of giving to the needy and the wealthy, which is the greater good?

Pastor Kun:

@reyginus
I told you he would never answer the question

Seriously, I don't like what he's trying to do. As if defending what some people see to be wrong, based on an available manual, without giving any reason why he's defending it is praiseworthy.

Pastor Kun:

@reyginus
I told you he would never answer the question

Did you answer any of mine?

chukwudi44: Abeg is you are sowing make sure it is done to some orphanage and not one greedy pastor to use in flying private jets.

it's no longer ur concern as to what the pastor will use it 4 as lng as you do what is right.

I will lyk 2 add to what d OP said regardless of ur arguments.
As we've all been told since we were kids that sowing seeds nd payin tithes attracts blessin from God...
Here is a verse to clarify ur arguments...
Malachi 3:10(NIV) says
''Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. ''TEST ME IN THIS, says the Lord Almighty, AND SEE IF I WILL NOT THROW OPEN THE FLOODGATES OF HEAVEN AND POUR OUT SO MUCH BLESSING THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE ROOM ENOUGH FOR IT.....
dis is the surest way of asking for Gods blessing if HE himself said test me.Why don't we jst test Him.
I hope we dont think of what our tithes wud b used and jst fulfil all just.ALAAFIA

Damsman10: I will lyk 2 add to what d OP said regardless of ur arguments.
As we've all been told since we were kids that sowing seeds nd payin tithes attracts blessin from God...
Here is a verse to clarify ur arguments...
Malachi 3:10(NIV) says
''Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. ''TEST ME IN THIS, says the Lord Almighty, AND SEE IF I WILL NOT THROW OPEN THE FLOODGATES OF HEAVEN AND POUR OUT SO MUCH BLESSING THAT YOU WILL NOT HAVE ROOM ENOUGH FOR IT.....
dis is the surest way of asking for Gods blessing if HE himself said test me.Why don't we jst test Him.
I hope we dont think of what our tithes wud b used and jst fulfil all just.ALAAFIA

Oh... no, not again...

I will refer you to these websites

www.tithing101.com (you can download a book here)

http://tekoapublishing.com/books/tithing/index.html (a book make up the website with each chapter on each webpage)

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

and you can download a book on tithing by a young Nigerian, Mofesola, here:

http://mb.mettalloids.com/tithe-and-you-the-book/

Tithing has been overly debated on NL; there is no evidence that this will reduce. We have people who keep asking the kind of question in the OP. Do your research; Study the scriptures; weight the arguments both for and against; check the website and pray. Then make your decision based on what God leads you to do and not what people claim could happen to you in the name of curse or curses.

BTW, after a good study and prayer myself, I no longer tithe to any church but give as God enables me.

The above is the way I will answer every claim for tithing from now on for this forum, especially in this season of liberty to post anything that "blesses" us. Happy Reading!

Pastor Kun:

The fact that one labels himself a christian does not automatically make him a true follower of christ. The bible warns us to be wary of wolves in sheeps clothing and expose false teachers/teachings. There is no way to do it nicely, you have to call a spade a spade. That said the Pharisees contrary to your assertion up there, were not only Jesus fellow believers they were the religious leaders of the religion Jesus practised only problem is that they were mostly hypocrites just like a lot of our religious leaders today and Jesus rebuked them very sharply. That said, another point to note is that Jesus did not discriminate btw his followers and others. So if I see a fellow christian falling out of line I am not supposed to cover up for him but rather I should rebuke him and call him to order like Paul did to Peter.

So very well said.

Check and see how many times the word dispute was used in Acts of the apostles and see how many times the apostles disputed to uphold the faith. Jeremiah said God has a controversy with the nations. Jude 3 says we should contend earnestly for the faith: my friend, it doesn't mean all this love making that is being advocated on this thread. There is a tough love from God; it is what makes Him a consuming fire. Lastly, look at what Paul said of false prophets in 2 corinthinans 10 and 11. He was not pathing them on the back.

There is a place for a literal curse for anyone who teaches anything not in keeping with the gospel of Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:8,9, wether he is a Christian, angel, demon or otherwise.

We are simply doing our job of propagating and preserving the gospel of our Lord.

DrummaBoy:
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/
Tithing has been overly debated on NL; there is no evidence that this will reduce. We have people who keep asking the kind of question in the OP. Do your research; Study the scriptures; weight the arguments both for and against; check the website and pray. Then make your decision based on what God leads you to do and not what people claim could happen to you in the name of curse or curses.

BTW, after a good study and prayer myself, I no longer tithe to any church but give as God enables me.
The above is the way I will answer every claim for tithing from now on for this forum, especially in this season of liberty to post anything that "blesses" us. Happy Reading!

i must say you also have a point... Giving alms when you have and paying tithes will surely lead blessings to you bt i also implore you to try to give tithe as lng as u'r in church.

Pastor Kun:

The fact that one labels himself a christian does not automatically make him a true follower of christ. The bible warns us to be wary of wolves in sheeps clothing and expose false teachers/teachings.

To reinforce ur point ''GOING TO CHURCH DOESN'T MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN ANY MORE THAN GOING TO A GARAGE MAKES YOU AN AUTOMOBILE.

Pastor Kun:

The fact that one labels himself a christian does not automatically make him a true follower of christ. The bible warns us to be wary of wolves in sheeps clothing and expose false teachers/teachings.

To reinforce ur point ''GOING TO CHURCH DOESN'T MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN ANY MORE THAN GOING TO A GARAGE MAKES YOU AN AUTOMOBILE.

Pastor Kun:

The fact that one labels himself a christian does not automatically make him a true follower of christ. The bible warns us to be wary of wolves in sheeps clothing and expose false teachers/teachings. There is no way to do it nicely, you have to call a spade a spade. That said the Pharisees contrary to your assertion up there, were not only Jesus fellow believers they were the religious leaders of the religion Jesus practised only problem is that they were mostly hypocrites just like a lot of our religious leaders today and Jesus rebuked them very sharply. That said, another point to note is that Jesus did not discriminate btw his followers and others. So if I see a fellow christian falling out of line I am not supposed to cover up for him but rather I should rebuke him and call him to order like Paul did to Peter.

Jesus came to introduce a new way of life, a new order, a new message called the message of Grace. This new order we now call Christianity. The Pharisees did not belong to that order. In fact, they (including Saul of Tarsus) fought those trying to belong to that Way. Saying that Jesus and the Parisees shared a common faith is technically accurate but misleading. It's like somebody telling you that Ojukwu fought the civil war against people different from his own. And you respond that at the time Ojukwu was fighting, he was a Nigerian and aso were those on the other side of the war. That does not make sense in the context of the discussion, because Ojukwu did not see himself as Nigerian at that point. Jesus knew He was different. He made clear to His disciples that the Way He was introducing was different. It's interesting to see you defend the law and Judaism (the religion of the Pharisees) as the same as Christianity because you want to continue in your ungodly behavior while what you do almost daily here is to argue that Christianity is different from Judaism (Levitical priesthood, etc). Also, your charge that people are not christians here and that gives you a license to attack them is baseless. If the Holy Spirit is working in you, it'll be clear in your spirit that the forumites you're attacking are fellow christians. Hiding under the label of falsity to give yourself a license to hate (which Jesus called murder) is wrong. Amend your ways.

Gombs:

Did you answer any of mine?

Yes I did even though your question was very shallow and based on twisted scripture.

If you want to ask questions, go straight to the point and stop writing long, twisted, shallow and out of context posts that don't make sense and nobody has time to read.

DrummaBoy:

So very well said.

Check and see how many times the word dispute was used in Acts of the apostles and see how many times the apostles disputed to uphold the faith. Jeremiah said God has a controversy with the nations. Jude 3 says we should contend earnestly for the faith: my friend, it doesn't mean all this love making that is being advocated on this thread. There is a tough love from God; it is what makes Him a consuming fire. Lastly, look at what Paul said of false prophets in 2 corinthinans 10 and 11. He was not pathing them on the back.

There is a place for a literal curse for anyone who teaches anything not in keeping with the gospel of Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:8,9, wether he is a Christian, angel, demon or otherwise.

We are simply doing our job of propagating and preserving the gospel of our Lord.

Can you show us where in Acts people were having the kind of un-Christlike disputes that you engage in and promote here? As young and immature as the church in Acts was, you don't find this level of unchristian conduct that we are seeing here from supposedly mature christians. When Paul confronted Peter for his error, he did nothing with hatred. He did not curse him. There was no lack of love. And they did not become enemies afterwards. Here, you guys are treating fellow christians as enemies. And doing so proudly. By procliaming that they are not even christians in the first place. I just read the Gal. 1:8-9 that you referenced in 4 versions (NIV, NASB, KJV and AMP). First of all, the focus is on a different gospel, not a disagreement on an ISSUE. In fact, the people that are preaching a different gospel are more likely those that deny the deity of Jesus. But you embrace those. More importantly, not one of these versions mentions that you should be the one cursing those who preach a different gospel. Ok, I believe some of the things you write here are wrong and hypocritical. Can I term them a different gospel and curse you now?

Damsman10:
To reinforce ur point ''GOING TO CHURCH DOESN'T MAKE YOU A CHRISTIAN ANY MORE THAN GOING TO A GARAGE MAKES YOU AN AUTOMOBILE.

What makes you think that statement does not apply to you? How do I know you're a christian? The fact that you go to church and claim to be a chrisian does not make you one. You see, two can play that game. But that helps nobody. Why don't you let the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit minister to you about who on this forum is a christian, instead of relying on fanciful platitudes?

nlMediator:

Can you show us where in Acts people were having the kind of un-Christlike disputes that you engage in and promote here? As young and immature as the church in Acts was, you don't find this level of unchristian conduct that we are seeing here from supposedly mature christians. When Paul confronted Peter for his error, he did nothing with hatred. He did not curse him. There was no lack of love. And they did not become enemies afterwards. Here, you guys are treating fellow christians as enemies. And doing so proudly. By procliaming that they are not even christians in the first place. I just read the Gal. 1:8-9 that you referenced in 4 versions (NIV, NASB, KJV and AMP). First of all, the focus is on a different gospel, not a disagreement on an ISSUE. In fact, the people that are preaching a different gospel are more likely those that deny the deity of Jesus. But you embrace those. More importantly, not one of these versions mentions that you should be the one cursing those who preach a different gospel. Ok, I believe some of the things you write here are wrong and hypocritical. Can I term them a different gospel and curse you now?

My brother God bless you.These guys do not prayerfully study an issue,they rather surf the internet to find a material that is full of errors. You will be shocked at which level these guys can go to condemn genuine Christians as you can see in this article here.

http://tithing.christian-things.com/thelaw.html

Even the so called grace convention is riddled with these false teachings.I have learnt now not to engage in unprofitable and useless quarrels with warped and sinful folks.

These men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and whatever they do understand by instinct,like unreasoning animals are the very things that destroys them.

There is an evil spirit in them that rises up and grumbles,finding faults with Christians who tithes and give offerings to God.You will always see them in this forum boasting about themselves and flattering others for their own advantages as you can see here.

Believe you me my post will not go unanswered.They will surely and foolishly respond in droves because they merely follow their natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

Silence is the best answer for a fool.

^^^
John 16v2
New Living Translation

For you will be expelled from the synagogues, and the
time is coming when those who kill you will think they
are doing a holy service for God.

You haven't been silent, you spewed hate, indignation, curse and verbal excreta, you spilled all else but love. (Read my signature for further elaboration).
all the while in this thread and others, its either a grp says something is right and not wrong, and the other group saying the other group's views are wrong. But the whole essence is to edify ourselves from the scriptures. But you n some others ALWAYS seem to not only wanna say the other groups view is wrong, but you go further calling them names eg thieves, fools, con men etc (I could quote you if you wish). Question, would Jesus correct other's view via insults? Silence is golden, for it is better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool........than to open your mouth....and
remove all doubt. Most folks on religiious section are quiet, watching some of you folks run your mouth (or keypads) ever noticed Frosbel? Tho we dnt agree much he NEVER use accusative or foul or hate language. I could call others too who we don't agree much abt stuffz in d bible. Why then are you and some other 'christians' different!? Treating fellow Christians as Jesus who you believe in wouldn't?

You think you are doing service for God, but this is my conclusion of the matter:

If sowing seeds, tithing, etc are wrong and I still indulge in them, I stand to loose nothing in this life or the one to come, but if it's right by God and I indulge in them, I stand to gain everything in this life and that to come. Then imagine if they're actually right (which of course they are) and I don't indulge in them, and worse still I indoctrinated it in the minds of babes in Christ(those who aren't firm in the faith), imagine that wrong doctrine laying a stronghold in their generations to come, and imagine God's wrath for such.

Be guided sir,
Warm regards,
Gombs