Logicboy03:
The shroud of turin is dated to the medievel times after the death of Jesus. There is nothing miraculous about it.

What is the miracle? An 11th century man's image appeared on a piece of cloth? We all know that there is now way that is Jesus on there

Lol... No, it is not dated to the 11th century.

How did the image appear there?

By paint?

The most sophisticated and up to date scientists of the 21st century cannot tell us.

What about the Tilma?

italo:

Lol... No, it is not dated to the 11th century.

How did the image appear there?

By paint?

The most sophisticated and up to date scientists of the 21st century cannot tell us.

What about the Tilma?

After years of discussion, the Holy See permitted radiocarbon dating on portions of a swatch taken from a corner of the shroud. Independent tests in 1988 at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology concluded with 95% confidence that the shroud material dated to 1260–1390 AD.[1] This 13th to 14th century

Logicboy03:

After years of discussion, the Holy See permitted radiocarbon dating on portions of a swatch taken from a corner of the shroud. Independent tests in 1988 at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology concluded with 95% confidence that the shroud material dated to 1260–1390 AD.[1] This 13th to 14th century

Too many irregularities with the conditions. And historical evidence proves otherwise. And scientists cant tell us how the image was made.

How could medieval men have made an image and today's sophisticated technology cant tell if it was paint or otherwise.

And what about the tilma?

italo:

Too many irregularities with the conditions. And historical evidence proves otherwise. And scientists cant tell us how the image was made.

How could medieval men have made an image and today's sophisticated technology cant tell if it was paint or otherwise.

And what about the tilma?

The same way Nigerian villagers know certain herbal remedies for certain sciknesses that modern science has not kept up with.

The burial process could have some special liquid or substance that could have left imprints. There are many scientific hypothesis to this mystery. However it is not a miracle just a fascinating discovery

ℓ̊ love my Church A̶̲̥̅̊η∂ being a Roman Catholic has always gven me edge in knowing more abt God.Pope Emeritus, Benedict is a humble pope, ℓ̊ luv Him A̶̲̥̅̊η∂ also belv in Him.God is in Control.

Logicboy03:
The same way Nigerian villagers know certain herbal remedies for certain sciknesses that modern science has not kept up with.

The burial process could have some special liquid or substance that could have left imprints. There are many scientific hypothesis to this mystery. However it is not a miracle just a fascinating discovery

I like the words you use. "Could," "hypothesis," "mystery." If you dont know how the image came about, how can you say categorically that it is not a miracle?

What liquid could have been used in the burial process that mankind has never heard of and cannot detect in 2013?

What about the Tilma?

cold:
I think you're the ignorant one here. You don't know a damn thing about your faith. First read up on the Catholic Church & slavery,then follow it up with the Spanish inquisition,and then the catholic church and the Sicilian mafia,the catholic church and the dark ages,and also the catholic church & paedophilia. I can go on and on. There's nothing worthy of emulation from you lots. Your reputation reeks to the high heavens. And please don't bring in that Jewish book of fables into the argument or your argument will be taken to pieces

i have read all that, and if you were humble enough to sit in a classroom i'll willinglg give you lectures on them including their context, but i didn't stop there i also read about the lives of so many catholics who by their lives made the world a better place. You see only evil because you are looking for evil.

cold:
I don't need to discuss the good things i have done & still do lest i be accused of hubris. There's no exaggerations of the evils of the catholic church. The vatican has had a hand in every devious dealing in the past 5 centuries. Only a m0ron would pretend not to know. About having the largest charity,how does that take away from the heinous activities of the catholic church? Is that supposed to hush us up?

oh really tell me how the vatican started ww2, the invasion of iraq, dropping nukes, chemical weapons in syria, you said in 5centuries let's see.

Glad to hear that! May God be praised.

Where do these thread derailers come from? Reading through the posts it is easy to forget what it is even about.

Ubenedictus: i have read all that, and if you were humble enough to sit in a classroom i'll willinglg give you lectures on them including their context, but i didn't stop there i also read about the lives of so many catholics who by their lives made the world a better place. You see only evil because you are looking for evil.

By the s the same token, there have countless Jews, Muslims, Buddhist,Hindus, atheists, etc, who have also made the world a better place by their lives.
My point being that religion or sect does nor make anyone a better human being than they would have been, if example, they had belonged to a different religion or sect.
A good catholic is first a good person, good muslim is first a good person, and vise versa for a bad catholic or a bad Muslim.

plaetton:
By the s the same token, there have countless Jews, Muslims, Buddhist,Hindus, atheists, etc, who have also made the world a better place by their lives.
My point being that religion or sect does nor make anyone a better human being than they would have been, if example, they had belonged to a different religion or sect.
A good catholic is first a good person, good muslim is first a good person, and vise versa for a bad catholic or a bad Muslim.

We have countless examples of people who claim that conversion from being Atheist or irreligious to Catholicism made them better human beings. And they give concrete reasons for saying so. I have never heard of An Atheist or irreligious that says that leaving Catholicism made him better...with concrete reasons.

italo:

I like the words you use. "Could," "hypothesis," "mystery." If you dont know how the image came about, how can you say categorically that it is not a miracle?

What liquid could have been used in the burial process that mankind has never heard of and cannot detect in 2013?

What about the Tilma?

See this joker. So mankind is now omniscient? You put your whole trust in scientists to know all liquids? The irony of a catholic science hater!!! Take for instance, local goat meat peppersoup from Delta....depending on the degree of mixture of the ingredients, the soup becomes a laxative. Only people from my mother's village know it. Should the village die out, the knowledge of that liquid dies.

Who told you that scientists have studied all degrees of mixtures of liquids? If you read harry potter or you cooked, you would know that the difference between poison and soup can be the amount of a particular ingredient put


Your argument is flawed. If there is something we dont know, it is a miracle? What nonsense!!!!

How is the shroud a miracle?
-we know that it is not Jesus on the shroud
-we know that people in that era already had some printing techniques

italo:

We have countless examples of people who claim that conversion from being Atheist or irreligious to Catholicism made them better human beings. And they give concrete reasons for saying so. I have never heard of An Atheist or irreligious that says that leaving Catholicism made him better...with concrete reasons.

Logicboy03:
See this joker. So mankind is now omniscient? You put your whole trust in scientists to know all liquids? The irony of a catholic science hater!!! Take for instance, local goat meat peppersoup from Delta....depending on the degree of mixture of the ingredients, the soup becomes a laxative. Only people from my mother's village know it. Should the village die out, the knowledge of that liquid dies.

Who told you that scientists have studied all degrees of mixtures of liquids? If you read harry potter or you cooked, you would know that the difference between poison and soup can be the amount of a particular ingredient put


Your argument is flawed. If there is something we dont know, it is a miracle? What nonsense!!!!

How is the shroud a miracle?
-we know that it is not Jesus on the shroud
-we know that people in that era already had some printing techniques

It is you Atheists that try to make us believe that mankind is omniscient. But if mankind isnt omniscient, then men like you cannot say categorically that God and his miracles dont exist.

Period!

italo:

We have countless examples of people who claim that conversion from being Atheist or irreligious to Catholicism made them better human beings. And they give concrete reasons for saying so. I have never heard of An Atheist or irreligious that says that leaving Catholicism made him better...with concrete reasons.

How can you tell this blatant lie in bold when you have your ex-catholic brother, Logicboy, here with you?

Leaving the catholic church has made me a better person
-I no longer have to lie or be ignorant about the evils of the catholic church eg slavery, crusades etc
-I dont discriminate against gays or other religions
-I dont commit sins and deceive myself that I am in a state of grace after running to the father for confession and pennance
-I dont belong to a church that preaches lies and ignorance against condoms. Saying condoms are evil
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/11/bad-science-pope-anti-condom



Italo, you are a liar.


It is also rare for an atheist to become a christian....it happens but rare

italo:

It is you Atheists that try to make us believe that mankind is omniscient. But if mankind isnt omniscient, then men like you cannot say categorically that God and his miracles dont exist.

Period!

When caught in a lie, throw that lie back on the accuser


Italo, you no get sense. Have you not even seen where atheist make the argument that it is impossible to be omniscient due to the contradiction of freewill and also knowledge itself?

Logicboy03:
How can you tell this blatant lie in bold when you have your ex-catholic brother, Logicboy, here with you?

Leaving the catholic church has made me a better person
-I no longer have to lie or be ignorant about the evils of the catholic church eg slavery, crusades etc
-I dont discriminate against gays or other religions
-I dont commit sins and deceive myself that I am in a state of grace after running to the father for confession and pennance
-I dont belong to a church that preaches lies and ignorance against condoms. Saying condoms are evil
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/11/bad-science-pope-anti-condom

Everything you say on this anonymous forum is unverified and unverifiable.

If we are to go by your words, you are a living LIE. You pretend to be Catholic in real life. How do we even know you are not a muslim or a satanist just trying to further the agenda of satan.

Logicboy03:
Italo, you are a liar.


It is also rare for an atheist to become a christian....it happens but rare

At least, I know many. Almost all have said Catholicism made them better human beings.

Logicboy03:


When caught in a lie, throw that lie back on the accuser


Italo, you no get sense. Have you not even seen where atheist make the argument that it is impossible to be omniscient due to the contradiction of freewill and also knowledge itself?

If they are not omniscient, then they cannot say categorically that God or his miracles dont exist. Period!

Ubenedictus: You see only evil because you are looking for evil.

dat is jst it

italo:

Everything you say on this anonymous forum is unverified and unverifiable.

If we are to go by your words, you are a living LIE. You pretend to be Catholic in real life. How do we even know you are not a muslim or a satanist just trying to further the agenda of satan.

haha..........how could I ever pretend to be a catholic? Deep down, you know that I am (was) a catholic....my knowledge of the church is just too much

italo:

We have countless examples of people who claim that conversion from being Atheist or irreligious to Catholicism made them better human beings. And they give concrete reasons for saying so. I have never heard of An Atheist or irreligious that says that leaving Catholicism made him better...with concrete reasons.

Italo,
Your stock is really dropping to new lows.
The kind of statements you make these days. Na wa

Who are the countless?
On Nairaland alone, we have our one and only logicdude, and countless others , like Muskeeto, Cyrexx, Avicenna, etc, who have confessed to being better human beings after jettisoning the heavy yolk of religion.

Show me one or two people who have said the same about leaving atheism for religion.

By uttering this nonsense, you seem to have missed the point I was trying to get across to Ubenedictus, which I am sure he did.
You seem to be getting too desperate. Your religious mind is too conflicted. The center can no longer hold.

I think you are well on your way to atheism, but you might have to stop over at a shrink house for rehabilitation.

Logicboy03:
haha..........how could I ever pretend to be a catholic? Deep down, you know that I am (was) a catholic....my knowledge of the church is just too much

Isnt it you who tells us how you pretend to be a Catholic in real life?

plaetton:

Italo,
Your stock is really dropping to new lows.
The kind of statements you make these days. Na wa

Who are the countless?
On Nairaland alone, we have our one and only logicdude, and countless others , like Muskeeto, Cyrexx, Avicenna, etc, who have confessed to being better human beings after jettisoning the heavy yolk of religion.

Show me one or two people who have said the same about leaving atheism for religion.

By uttering this nonsense, you seem to have missed the point I was trying to get across to Ubenedictus, which I am sure he did.
You seem to be getting too desperate. Your religious mind is too conflicted. The center can no longer hold.

I think you are well on your way to atheism, but you might have to stop over at a shrink house for rehabilitation.

You are contradicting yourself or your fellow Atheists.

First, you say that good people are just good, regardless of creed.

Then you say some people (logicboy, cyrex) claim they are better because of their creed.

You mean they lied.

Then I will proceed to give you names of real verifiable people in my next post, not some anonymous, unknown and unknowable people. How are you sure logicboy is not avicena is not cyrex is not muskeeto is not muslim is not christian is not satanist is not confused?

italo:

You are contradicting yourself or your fellow Atheists.

First, you say that good people are just good, regardless of creed.

Then you say some people (logicboy, cyrex) claim they are better because of their creed.

You mean they lied.

Then I will proceed to give you names of real verifiable people in my next post, not some anonymous, unknown and unknowable people. How are you sure logicboy is not avicena is not cyrex is not muskeeto is not muslim is not christian is not satanist is not confused?

No contractions at all.

English 101.

There is a clear difference between being a good person(like I cited) and feeling good about oneself(like logicboy, Muskeeto, Cyrexx and Avicenna have confessed).

I cannot tell whether all these people are nice people on their own or not, But I do believe them when they say that they feel better and free as free thinkers and atheists.

Comprendo?

italo:

Isnt it you who tells us how you pretend to be a Catholic in real life?

I didnt know that was what you were getting at

Logicboy03:






I didnt know that was what you were getting at

hehehe, caught in the act

plaetton:

No contractions at all.

English 101.

There is a clear difference between being a good person(like I cited) and feeling good about oneself(like logicboy, Muskeeto, Cyrexx and Avicenna have confessed).

I cannot tell whether all these people are nice people on their own or not, But I do believe them when they say that they feel better and free as free thinkers and atheists.

Comprendo?

Logicboy can you please second plaetton, please tell us did atheism make you a better person.

plaetton:

Italo,
Your stock is really dropping to new lows.
The kind of statements you make these days. Na wa

Who are the countless?
On Nairaland alone, we have our one and only logicdude, and countless others , like Muskeeto, Cyrexx, Avicenna, etc, who have confessed to being better human beings after jettisoning the heavy yolk of religion.

Show me one or two people who have said the same about leaving atheism for religion.

By uttering this nonsense, you seem to have missed the point I was trying to get across to Ubenedictus, which I am sure he did.
You seem to be getting too desperate. Your religious mind is too conflicted. The center can no longer hold.

I think you are well on your way to atheism, but you might have to stop over at a shrink house for rehabilitation.

this reminds me i was refreshing my memory on philosophy during the week and the plilosopher made an arguement that pride is inherent in atheist. Reading this just seems to agree.

Logicboy03:


When caught in a lie, throw that lie back on the accuser


Italo, you no get sense. Have you not even seen where atheist make the argument that it is impossible to be omniscient due to the contradiction of freewill and also knowledge itself?

you mean the non-existent contradiction?

Don't think anything
Just asking did the pope say to the young lad, In the name of Jesus you are healed?
Or did the Pope work his own magic.

Ubenedictus:

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/world-news/detail/articolo/benedetto-xvi-benedict-xvi-benedicto-xvi-27560/

what do you think

italo:
@ satan, I know that you know that God works countless miracles every second.

I know that you know about the incorruptibles, the miracles of Lourdes, the shroud of Turin, the liquefying blood of St. Gennaro, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima and other apparitions. I know that you know of these and many more miracles that scientists have declared as clearly beyond nature. I know that you are just working hard to deceive men into your den by disbelieving God. You so desperately want them to fall into your miserable fate. You want partners to share you hate-filled and bitter eternity. But it has no effect on us Children of God.

Are these ones miracles? Ah Otio.