But That's The Old Testament - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: But That's The Old Testament by justcool(m): 2:14am On Jul 10, 2008 |
I completely agree with m_nwankwo. God is absolute goodness and all forms of evil is alien to God. God did not create evil. The origin of evil lies in the misapplication of God's power which he lends to all his creatures and which all creatures are dependant upon. This power of God is neutral, it can be used to create good, as much as it can also be used to creat evil. But this neutral power issued out of God who is absolute goodness, hence this power becomes strong when used rightly, i.e when used to create good. It weakens when used wrongly. This is why evil is transient, and only temporal. In addition to this, there is a law in creation: The law of reciprocal action. Jesus explained this law by, "What a man sows that shall he reap!" This law operates in parts of creation, from the spiritual to the physical, from the smallest things to the biggest things. Even science observed this law in motion of physical things. "Every action has an equal and oppsite reaction." Thus if I apply a force of 10 newtons on a wall, the wall automatically applies the same force of 10 newtons back to me. This law operates even in the actions of man. If a man does good, this good will oneday return to him a thousand fold. Just as if a farmer plants one seed of corn, during harvest he will reap kernels of corns. So when catastrophic evil overcome peoples(like Sodom and Gomorrah) and destroy them all. It is not God that made this evil. It is the people, i.e they must have sown this evil in the past. So the catastrophe we see is only a hervest of what they had sown in the past. Here we see a perfect example of man creating evil. If man only sows good seeds, then on hervest days, they will only receive goodness, blessing, peace, joy. This law of "sowing and reaping" is an expression of the WILL OF GOD which is absolute love and justice. It is a blessing to those that use it rightly, ie those that sow only good seeds. Receiving the good that they once sowed is love and justice form them for it encourages them to remain good. Likewise, the distruction that people receive on hervest days is also love and justice. The love there is that it enables them to experience what they once did to others and it shows them how they stand, offering them the recognition that will impell them to change. It is also justice for those who they once harmed, for in the suffering of their oppressors they will see the Justice of God defending them. Thus they will see the fulfillment of the biblical words, "Vengeance is mine." Thus in all God's laws there are only goodness. |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by justcool(m): 2:36am On Jul 10, 2008 |
m_nwankwo: @m_nwankwo I perceive that in the above you meant that, "nobody can dispute that matter is subject to birth, growth, death, decay and transformation. I completely agree with you but I think maybe you should re-phrase the above sentence. Is the "not" (which I made bold) necessary? I think it undermines the meaning of your sentence. I call you to it because I suspect that it is a typo. As always, I respect your sound knowledge and clear outlook. Thanks and remain blessed. |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by Yisraylite(m): 6:16am On Jul 10, 2008 |
Deu 30:15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. Deu 30:16 For I command you today to love YAHAWAH your Father, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and YAHAWAH your Father will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. Deu 30:17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to strange gods (elohiym) and worship them, Deu 30:18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Yardan to enter and possess. Deu 30:19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live Deu 30:20 and that you may love YAHAWAH your Father, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For YAHAWAH is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Ab-ra-ham, Yis-ahk and Yaaqob. Deu 30:6 And YAHAWH will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love YAHAWAH with all your heart, and with all your being, that you may live. Salaam Yisraylite |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by mnwankwo(m): 10:30am On Jul 10, 2008 |
justcool: Thank you very much justcool. You are correct. It was typo. I have corrected the submission. Stay radiant and stay blessed! |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by Nobody: 5:17pm On Sep 24, 2010 |
The old testament is a book of history It should have been called the life and times of the Israelites |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by Kay17: 6:39pm On Sep 24, 2010 |
All I could draw was an unhealthy attempt to justify evil. On the same grounds of despising Hitler, I also despise the fantasy god. |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by Nobody: 10:45pm On Sep 24, 2010 |
@huxley i can feel your pain coz you dont believe in God. When you look at Man what do you think? |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by vescucci(m): 11:04pm On Sep 24, 2010 |
Trying to deny the relevance of the old testament to Christianity borders on the ridiculous. Let's allow for all the wishful thinking that discredits Paul's authenticity as an apostle and also his students and friends who appear to be among the bible writers. That leaves us with only Matthew's and John's and only a few gospels. In these gospels, they repeatedly refer to the old testament books as confirmation of Jesus as the legitimate fulfiller of the prophecies of the old testament. Jesus himself was well grounded in Jewish practices and only disrespected Sabbath which is not relevant to my argument. He quoted verses from the old testament. Did he forget to tell his disciples to 'scratch that' in a manner of speaking? The point is Yahweh, Moses, Joshua, Solomon and the lot of the characters of the old testament. Did they do all that was said they did? Did Yahweh endorse all their actions? Is Yahweh the same God as Jesus' father? If not, doesn't that make all the old testament characters idol worshippers and confused? And the gospel writers, doesn't that make them some disciples indeed if they believed in these idolators as God's representatives? Some sophisticated Christians have a knack for re-interpreting bible verses into things that the writers themselves have no ideas about. Allegories they say. What is the use of an allegory that is not apparent? All of Jesus' parables are easily discernable. Can God be said to be so vagarious as to go from a terribly jealous God to a sissy who's in love with us all? Sometimes I've heard the OT referred to as specifically for the Jews. Do these Jews have dirt on God that accounts for this special treatment or what? Why are they 'chosen' and 'chosen' for what? I really don't know all if any of the answers but truth is truth and falsehood is falsehood. They do not belong in the same place |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by Rhino3dm: 9:22am On Sep 25, 2010 |
vescucci: |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by nopuqeater: 3:31pm On Sep 26, 2010 |
I read the opinion or argument of M_Nwonko and I have to ask myself, rather ask him: are you saying the Almighty God is not the Creator of all things? Things like death, evil which manifest itself, only when man acts on that part of him that ignores goodness in him, via his ability to choose? While God is Perfect, He leaves His entire creations depending on Him. The Angels for example do not have the "Will" ability. Humans, Jinn from which Satan is a specie of are endowed with freewill ability. It is this freewill that, with guidance and commandments that a good soul chooses goodness over evil. It is the same reason of freewill that a bad soul will ignore the goodness in him, but then exhibits which is instinctive and basic in him, killing all kind of id qualities, like animals, even worse. Perfection of God completely distinguishes Him completely from His creations. So while all creations depends on Him, He depends on no one. WHile the creations look like one another, he does not look anyone. While the creations must die, etc, He doesnt experience anything that creation must go through. We should not give an impression that there is another creator, other than the One True Creator; God Almighty. It amount to denying His Full Majesty. |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by vescucci(m): 7:17pm On Sep 26, 2010 |
Ok, but I'm not sure what your surmise has to do with anything. Perhaps you meant to post it in another thread? |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by nopuqeater: 7:50pm On Sep 26, 2010 |
^^^^^Read it all over again. It addressed M_Nwankwo. Then concerning his opinion that God did not create all, especially evil, satan, death, etc, etc. Maybe your response is based on your view, similar to M_Nwankwo. Is that a fair for me to say about you? |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by vescucci(m): 8:24pm On Sep 26, 2010 |
Oh, of course your post was in response to something M_Nwankwo posted. Unfortunately, he is far too subjective for me and I'm certain our views will be different. I have no personal experiences on any religious phenomena. All I know is what is in front of me and tangible. Not only will sophisticated Christians play down the relevance of the OT, they'll more or less only endorse the gospel of John which tells them what they wanna hear - LOVE LOVE AND MORE LOVE |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by mnwankwo(m): 10:05am On Sep 27, 2010 |
nopuqeater: Yes, I am saying that the Almighty God is not the creator of everything. It is impossible for God to create things that are in opposition to his nature. Thus God did not and cannot create evil. However, creatures that bear free will can misapply the power of God and create evil. Hell for instance is not the work of God but that of man. Man misapplied the power of God and that gave rise to what is refereed to as hell. All power comes from God Almighty but the application or misapplication of the power of God and subsequent good or evil that arises from such application or misapplication is the work of a creature that bears free will. Stay blessed. |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by vescucci(m): 11:24pm On Sep 27, 2010 |
Then God can be said to be impersonal. While possible to talk of Him being 'good', He didn't create good in the same vein |
| Re: But That's The Old Testament by nopuqeater: 1:30am On Sep 28, 2010 |
@M_Nwankw: #45 on: Yesterday at 10:05:22 AM » [Quote]Yes, I am saying that the Almighty God is not the creator of everything. [/Quote]This God Almighty by your concept is not All powerful, Supreme, there. If He is not the Only Creator, who ever creates what he does not create, will be equal to Him, or His rival. This will , again make Him not Unique, not Absolute, at the very least. Is this Who the One deserving all worship should be? [Quote]It is impossible for God to create things that are in opposition to his nature.[/Quote]What is the Nature of God? A being you have ot seen, but because He tells you in many varied ways that He exists. This is the Only way you know about His existence. How do you know His nature? What Book do you 100% nature ofGod without something about Himself that He keeps from you and I? [Quote]Thus God did not and cannot create evil.[/Quote]You limit the Power and Ability of God by your cannot. Who created Satan? Is Satan not created by God Almighty? [Quote]However, creatures that bear free will can misapply the power of God and create evil.[/Quote]You are implying that man for example has the same power that God has? Can man creeate a man? Can man create a tree? Can man create a lion? Each without using anything that God gave man, creared, already? [Quote] Hell for instance is not the work of God but that of man.[/Quote]Where is Hell, right now? If we are talking about the same thing; it is a place where the fire is a raging inferno to be used to punish man. Are you saying man creates this fiery inferno to punish himself? That will be madness if thats what man has done. [Quote]Man misapplied the power of God and that gave rise to what is refereed to as hell. All power comes from God Almighty but the application or misapplication of the power of God and subsequent good or evil that arises from such application or misapplication is the work of a creature that bears free will. Stay blessed.[/Quote]If God gives man Power, then it is no more the power of God per see, especially the way you are marrying God and man. The Power of God is different from He allows man to have "ability", which is what you have been calling "God's Power" all this while. If man has 100% of the power of God, what will the Angels who have more than man can ever have be called relative to this power gradation? Angels leap in a moment from all the way from heaven to the earth. man with the full power as you have indicated can never get to heaven, like the Angels do. And just because created good does not mean He must not be the Creator of evil. And because He created evil does not make Him imperfect. Good and Evil are there to choose, based on your heart, healthy or diseased. |
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