NL member:

You're not worth my time. I will ignore your foolishness and shameless lying henceforth you worthless schmuck.

NL member my friend ... Don't cry ehn but I'll advice you stop leaving like a homeless dog. Get a religion, have something to live for.

NL member:

This is what you said about Surah As Saffat;



The bold and enlarged part says allah left a goodly remembrance among generations to come in later times.
'A goodly remembrance in later times' could mean the story of Abraham in the Bible.It could mean the story of Abraham in the Qur'an. it could also mean the story of Abraham in both the Bible and the Qur'an because these tales about abraham serve as a remembrance for who he was when he was on earth.
Nowhere does the verse say that the 'goodly remembrance' is talking about eid el kabir.

The goodly rememberance is talking about the Faith and Piety displayed by Ibrahim(AS).We are to follow that.Allah isn't in need of the ram nor the blood,He requires our Taqwa just like Ibrahim(AS) displayed his by trying to sacrifice his son.

Allah also made it clear to us in Surah Al-Hajj 22:37 that … it is not their (animals) flesh nor their blood that reaches Allah,but it is your piety that reaches him.
Thus Eid-Kabir is a demonstration of belief and obedient to Allah.It is also celebration of His favour and mercy.It is pious sacrifice to be commemorated,symbol of thanksgiving wherein there is a lot of reward from the Merciful Lord.
Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Hajj 22:78 -And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive.He has chosen you,and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship,it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham).It is He (Allah) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran),that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind!.....
We follow this in every aspect,do you get me now?.....Peace

golpen: @lanrexlan

Salaam bro...I recognise your effort to help our NL member, may ALLAH bless you. But he is someone who either lives in the pain of hiding his true self (not a christian, not an etheist) or wallows in the shame of not having something to protect. I thereby count a dialogue with him a waste. All he needs is prayer for ALLAH to illuminate his life. Peace.

Ameen and you too my brother.He's an atheist ex-muslim he said,only Allah can give guidance.....Peace

lanrexlan: Ameen and you too my brother.He's an atheist ex-muslim he said,only Allah can give guidance.....Peace

lanrexlan!!!

You couldn't even correct yer brother for telling lies......

And here I was holding you in high esteem.

*Sigh*

lanrexlan: The goodly rememberance is talking about the Faith and Piety displayed by Ibrahim(AS).We are to follow that.Allah isn't in need of the ram nor the blood,He requires our Taqwa just like Ibrahim(AS) displayed his by trying to sacrifice his son.

Allah also made it clear to us in Surah Al-Hajj 22:37 that … it is not their (animals) flesh nor their blood that reaches Allah,but it is your piety that reaches him.
Thus Eid-Kabir is a demonstration of belief and obedient to Allah.It is also celebration of His favour and mercy.It is pious sacrifice to be commemorated,symbol of thanksgiving wherein there is a lot of reward from the Merciful Lord.
Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Hajj 22:78 -And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive.He has chosen you,and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship,it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham).It is He (Allah) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran),that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind!.....
We follow this in every aspect,do you get me now?.....Peace

Those two verses don't mention any eid, you are simply trying to force their interpretation to mean eid el kabir celebrations. In Suratul hajj verse 78 allah asks muslims to strive as they ought to strive and stated that Islam is the religion of abraham.

You also have to take into consideration the preceding verse to the one you posted (Hajj 77) that says, 'O you who have believed, bow and prostrate and worship your Lord and do good - that you may succeed.' and the next verse which is a continuation goes on to say, 'And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive.He has chosen you,and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship,it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham).It is He (Allah) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran),that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind!'

So as you can see the verses are instructions for worshipping allah, they command muslims to bow to allah and praise him and do good and to strive. All these things are regular acts that are meant to be carried out in the course of worship.
Abraham was mentioned in the verse because allah wanted to inform muhammed that the similar instructions to what muhammed was receiving are what abraham received during his lifetime.

There is no eid celebration mentioned there please let me hear word..

NL member: Muslims don't celebrate christmas because they have been forbidden from celebrating birthdays by muhammed since allah never ordered it in the quran. A true muslim isn't even supposed to celebrate the birth of muhammed (ie Id el .Maulud), all they are supposed to do on Muhammed's birthday is to pray for him.
All this is very funny considering the fact that even their id el Kabir and Id el fitri are never mentioned in the quran either, yet they celebrate them.

You are very stubborn oooo , how many times do you want to be told Moslems celebrates what Mohammed(saw) celebrates and Same Qoran has instructed moslems to adhered strictly to the teaching/practices of Mohammed(saw) !!!


Qoran is a puzzle for somebody that lacks the Knowledge and wherewittal to understand its contents as it contents are all Interrelated like a website in which explanation of an Ayah/verse can be found in another chapter/surah entirely !!



Your problem is strictly your mentality which always endeavour to equates practices in ChristenDom with Islamic ......... U can't Separate Mohammed(saw) from Qoran and Qoran from Mohammed(saw) as they are both complement of One-Another .......

Qoran Illuminates Mohammed(saw) while Mohammed(saw) Explains Qoran !!!


If Prophet Mohammed should do something that Negate the wishes of Allah, an Ayat would have condemned such ........ As Each Ayah/Surah in the Qoran has an event(s) that brought about its Revealation and Only through Tafsir-l-Qor'an can U understand the contents of Qoran !!!


When Mohammed frowned @ a blindman , such was corrected by Allah via Surah Abasa ( Qoran 80) .... Among others !!!


U don't Approach Islam/Qoran without Mohammed(saw) viceversa !



Stop being a troll and use The Logic present in your brain to draw Inferences while paying attention to details !!!


Eid-l-Kabir is around the corner, I may send you an Electronic Ram to chop make your mind settle[/b] !!!

NL member:

lanrexlan!!!

You couldn't even correct yer brother for telling lies......

And here I was holding you in high esteem.

*Sigh*

The brother directed you to a link that talks about Ibrahim(AS)sacrificing Ismael(AS).Is that his lies? He thought you wanna nullify the practices,he may be wrong concluding that,but I can't see where he lied.
**Sigh**

Those two verses don't mention any eid, you are simply trying to force their interpretation to mean eid el kabir celebrations. In Suratul hajj verse 78 allah asks muslims to strive as they ought to strive and stated that Islam is the religion of abraham.

You also have to take into consideration the preceding verse to the one you posted (Hajj 77) that says, 'O you who have believed, bow and prostrate and worship your Lord and do good - that you may succeed.' and the next verse which is a continuation goes on to say, 'And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive.He has chosen you,and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship,it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham).It is He (Allah) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Quran),that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind!'

So as you can see the verses are instructions for worshipping allah,they command muslims to bow to allah and praise him and do good and to strive. All these things are regular acts that are meant to be carried out in the course of worship.
Abraham was mentioned in the verse because allah wanted to inform muhammed that the similar instructions to what muhammed was receiving are what abraham received during his lifetime.

There is no eid celebration mentioned there please let me hear word..

Seriously,you are giving me headache bro,I'm fed up repeating myself.Is it only that Surah Al-Hajj you saw in my post? Ibrahim(as) is the Father of Faith,we are to follow his footsteps in all manners.
He showed his faith by trying to sacrifice his son,but Allah rescued the son from that and replace him with a great sacrifice.That's what gives birth to Eid-Kabir.

Do you see how I showed you how mankind being a single community,and Allah chose Ibrahim(AS) to be the leader and enjoined on us the religion of Ibrahim(AS)[Islam] and He is a role model to follow in all aspects? We are doing this in the footsteps of Ibrahim(AS),is that clear now?.....Peace

lanrexlan:
The brother directed you to a link that talks about Ibrahim(AS)sacrificing Ismael(AS).Is that his lies? He thought you wanna nullify the practices,he may be wrong concluding that,but I can't see where he lied.
**Sigh**

Do you see how you contradict yourself?
1. 'The brother might be wrong in concluding what he said'.

2. 'I don't see where he lied'.

Smh.

Seriously,you are giving me headache bro,I'm fed up repeating myself.Is it only that Surah Al-Hajj you saw in my post? Ibrahim(as) is the Father of Faith,we are to follow his footsteps in all manners.
He showed his faith by trying to sacrifice his son,but Allah rescued the son from that and replace him with a great sacrifice.That's what gives birth to Eid-Kabir.

Do you see how I showed you how mankind being a single community,and Allah chose Ibrahim(AS) to be the leader and enjoined on us the religion of Ibrahim(AS)[Islam] and He is a role model to follow in all aspects? We are doing this in the footsteps of Ibrahim(AS),is that clear now?.....Peace

I am giving you headache?!??
I am giving YOU headache

At the first @bold, suratul hajj was the only surah you mentioned in your last post. How can you claim that I am the one giving you headache when you lack the simple ability of keeping track of what you post? You brought up ONLY Suratul hajj in the post I was addressing and so I mentioned ONLY Suratul hajj in my reply.
You'd better keep track of what you write, don't annoy me again today.



@2nd bold, so muslims are following Abraham in all aspects eh? Lwkmd.
What you expect me to believe is that every single act that was performed by Abraham is what Muslims should follow and that's why you celebrate eid?
First of all, there are laws which were suitable for Abraham and his people and which Abraham followed and there are also laws which were suitable for Muhammed and his people which they followed. The religion of Abraham and Muhammed were not identical.
An example of one such law is Jizyah, Abraham never demanded Jizyah from the non believers of his time. Jizyah is a tax imposed on only Jews and Christians and those two religions didn't exist during Abraham's lifetime so there was no way his practises and that of muhammed are the same.
If muslims are meant to follow abraham in all aspects then jizyah would never have been a law because abraham didn't have anything to do with jizyah.


Your quranic justification for celebrating eid has been destroyed.

NL member: Muslims don't celebrate christmas because they have been forbidden from celebrating birthdays by muhammed since allah never ordered it in the quran. A true muslim isn't even supposed to celebrate the birth of muhammed (ie Id el .Maulud), all they are supposed to do on Muhammed's birthday is to pray for him.
All this is very funny considering the fact that even their id el Kabir and Id el fitri are never mentioned in the quran either, yet they celebrate them.

Can someone please tell my friend what is point is here? If he doesn't know the meaning of what he said here above, then he must be aware that people are good at reading his confusion

NL member:

Do you see how you contradict yourself?
1. 'The brother might be wrong in concluding what he said'.

2. 'I don't see where he lied'.

Smh.

I am not contradicting myself.Being wrong in concluding if you were trying to nullify the practices doesn't mean he's lying.

I am giving you headache?!??
I am giving YOU headache

Like Seriously,you are.Feel like ignoring you self.

At the first @bold,suratul hajj was the only surah you mentioned in your last post. How can you claim that I am the one giving you headache when you lack the simple ability of keeping track of what you post? You brought up ONLY Suratul hajj in the post I was addressing and so I mentioned ONLY Suratul hajj in my reply.

But you failed to address my points in other posts,that's what I am referring to. Ibrahim(AS)being the Father of Faith and those stuffs.

You'd better keep track of what you write,don't annoy me again today.

Who annoyed you before? Or you annoyed me.Better drink water.

@2nd bold,so muslims are following Abraham in all aspects eh? Lwkmd.
What you expect me to believe is that every single act that was performed by Abraham is what Muslims should follow and that's why you celebrate eid?

Yes,in terms of faith and practices.

First of all,there are laws which were suitable for Abraham and his people and which Abraham followed and there are also laws which were suitable for Muhammed and his people which they followed.

You are talking about Shariah,we are talking about the faith of Ibrahim(AS).

[s]The religion of Abraham and Muhammed were not identical[/s].

This is very wrong,Allah has ordained the religion of Ibrahim(AS)on us.Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Imran 3:95- Say (O Muhammad SAW):Allâh has spoken the truth;follow the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham) Hanifa (Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. he used to worship Allâh Alone),and he was not of Al- Mushrikûn.

Surah Ash-Shura 42:13 -He(Allah) has ordained for you the same religion (Islam) which He ordained for Nuh (Noah),and that which We have inspired in you and that which We ordained for Ibrahim (Abraham),Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus) saying you should establish religion (i.e. to do what it orders you to do practically),and make no divisions in it (religion) (i.e. various sects in religion).
Intolerable for the Mushrikun,is that to which you (O Muhammad SAW) call them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills, and guides unto Himself who turns to Him in repentance and in obedience.

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:135 -And they say,Be Jews or Christians,then you will be guided." Say(to them):Nay,(We follow) only the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham),Hanifa [Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allâh (Alone)],and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn (those who worshipped others along with Allâh)

Surah An-Nisa 4:125 -And who can be better in religion than one who submits his face (himself) to Allâh (i.e. follows Allâh's religion of Islâmic Monotheism);and he is a Muhsin (a good-doer).
And follows the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham) Hanifa (Islâmic Monotheism - to worship none but Allâh Alone). And Allâh did take Ibrâhim (abraham) as a Khalil (an intimate friend)!

Surah Al-Anam 6:161 -Say (O Muhammad SAW):Truly,my Lord has guided me to a Straight Path,a right religion,the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham),Hanifa [i.e. the true Islâmic Monotheism - to believe in One God (Allâh i.e. to worship none but Allâh, Alone)] and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn).
So we follow Ibrahim(AS)in all aspects of faith.Ibrahim(AS) believed and worshipped Allah,he offered SOLAT,he fasted,he gave zakat and performed Hajj.
We also follow the sincere faith displayed by Ibrahim(AS)when he wanna sacrifice his son.We are obedient to Allah as Ibrahim(AS)was obedient to Allah when he wanted to sacrifice his son,before Allah rescued him with a ram.That's why we celebrate Eid-Kabir.

An example of one such law is Jizyah,Abraham never demanded Jizyah from the non believers of his time.Jizyah is a tax imposed on only Jews and Christians and those two religions didn't exist during Abraham's lifetime so there was no way his practises and that of muhammed are the same.
If muslims are meant to follow abraham. In all aspects ten jizyah would never have been a law because abraham didn't have anything to do with jizyah.

This is a law.
I agree Shariah are different,but the faith isn't different.We follow that to the fullest.

Your quranic justification for celebrating eid has been destroyed.

Nah,you destroyed nothing here,,,,Peace

lanrexlan: I am not contradicting myself.Being wrong in concluding if you were trying to nullify the practices doesn't mean he's lying.

Lol, even when he is drawing the wrong conclusion he still isn't lying?
At-taquiya Wonders shall never end.

You are talking about Shariah,we are talking about the faith of Ibrahim(AS)

Demanding Jizyah is not part of faith? Even when it is mentioned in the qur'an?
The definition of faith is; a set of beliefs/a strongly held set of beliefs or principles.
For you to have faith as a Muslim means you must accept every aspect of Islam allah has ordained for you.
Allah ordained Jizyah in the qur'an in Surah At tawbah verse 29, "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued".

That is a divine decree from Allah in the Qur'an.It is not simply a Shariah law.
For you to have faith in Allah as a Muslim you must accept everything Allah says in the Qur'an; Jizyah included, so Jizyah is part of faith.

Surah Al-Imran 3:95- Say (O Muhammad SAW):Allâh has spoken the truth;follow the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham) Hanifa (Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. he used to worship Allâh Alone),and he was not of Al- Mushrikûn.

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:135 -And they say,Be Jews or Christians,then you will be guided." Say(to them):Nay,(We follow) only the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham),Hanifa [Islâmic Monotheism, i.e. to worship none but Allâh (Alone),and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn (those who worshipped others along with Allâh)

Surah An-Nisa 4:125 -And who can be better in religion than one who submits his face (himself) to Allâh (i.e. follows Allâh's religion of Islâmic Monotheism);and he is a Muhsin (a good-doer).
And follows the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham) Hanifa (Islâmic Monotheism - to worship none but Allâh Alone). And Allâh did take Ibrâhim (abraham) as a Khalil (an intimate friend)!

Surah Al-Anam 6:161 -Say (O Muhammad SAW):Truly,my Lord has guided me to a Straight Path,a right religion,the religion of Ibrâhim (abraham),Hanifa [i.e. the true Islâmic Monotheism - to believe in One God (Allâh i.e. to worship none but Allâh, Alone)] and he was not of Al-Mushrikûn).

The only sure similarity between Abraham's religion and Muhammed's religion is the practice of monotheism as you can see from the bolded and enlarged parts of your post.
When Allah says Muhammed should follow the religion of Abraham, He is saying Muhammed should be monotheistic and worship Allah alone.
Those verses do not say that Abraham also performed Hajj, paid Zakat or prayed Salaah.
They only said follow the religion of Abraham which is monotheism for allah alone.
Even you added the part about monotheism in brackets, meaning when the qur'an says you should follow Abraham, it is only saying you should worship no one else but Allah. The instruction isn't to follow the exact same religion Abraham followed because Abraham's religion and Muhammed's religion are different.

All the other prophets in the quran were given laws that were meant for the people in their regions. Only Muhammed's religion was ordained to be for the whole of mankind so how can Muhammed be instructed to follow the same laws Abraham followed?

That's all.
Happy Independence day Lanrexlan

NL member:

Lol,even when he is drawing the wrong conclusion he still isn't lying?
At-taquiya Wonders shall never end.

He may be wrong doesn't mean he's lying.It may be not a deliberate mistake na.

Demanding Jizyah is not part of faith? Even when it is mentioned in the qur'an?
The definition of faith is;a set of beliefs/a strongly held set of beliefs or principles.
For you to have faith as a Muslim means you must accept every aspect of Islam allah has ordained for you.

There are just six articles of Faith and Jizyah isn't part of it.There are:
1)To believe in Allah(swt)
2)To believe in The revealed Books.
3)To believe in The Angels.
4)To believe in The Messengers(Peace be upon them all)
5)To believe in Destiny(Divine PreOrdainments of Allah).

6)To believe in The Day of Judgement.

Anyone that believes in these and work along it the five pillars of Islam has fulfilled the will of Allah.This is an hadith of our beloved prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
Narrated Abu Huraira(May Allah be pleased with him):The Prophet(pbuh) said:Whoever believes in Allah and His Apostle,offer prayer perfectly and fasts the month of Ramadan,will rightfully be granted paradise by Allah,no matter whether he fights in Allah's Cause or remains in the land where he is born.
The people said,O Allah's Apostle ! Shall we acquaint the people with the is good news?

He said,Paradise has one-hundred grades which Allah has reserved for the Mujahidin who fight in His Cause,and the distance between each of two grades is like the distance between the Heaven and the Earth. So,when you ask Allah (for something),ask for Al-firdaus which is the best and highest part of paradise.(i.e. The sub- narrator added,I think the Prophet also said,Above it (i.e. Al- Firdaus) is the Throne of Beneficent (i.e. Allah),and from it originate the rivers of paradise[Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 4 hadith number 2790(O.P 48)].Is JIHAD not also mentioned in the Quran like Jizyah?

Allah ordained Jizyah in the qur'an in Surah At tawbah verse 29, "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth,(even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued".

That is a divine decree from Allah in the Qur'an.It is not simply a Shariah law.
For you to have faith in Allah as a Muslim you must accept everything Allah says in the Qur'an; Jizyah included,so Jizyah is part of faith.

Jizyah isn't part of Faith.If Christians and Jews are living under a muslim Government and this muslim Government protects them,then they are to pay Jizyah.But a country where muslims aren't the sole government and it's not govern by Shariah law,
then it's not a sin if muslims don't collect Jizyah and they aren't going against Allah's order.

The only sure similarity between Abraham's religion and Muhammed's religion is the practice of monotheism as you can see from the bolded and enlarged parts of your post.
When Allah says Muhammed should follow the religion of Abraham,He is saying Muhammed should be monotheistic and worship Allah alone.

This is wrong,the only similarity isn't Monotheism.It's the key but not the only one.Fasting is also in the footsteps of Ibrahim(AS)also[Surah Al-Baqarah 2:183]because he was among those before us,so is SOLAT.
Hajj is definitely in the footsteps of Ibrahim(as),he built the kabba and proclaim the call.

Those verses do not say that Abraham also performed Hajj,paid Zakat or prayed Salaah.
They only said follow the religion of Abraham which is monotheism for allah alone.

The faith of Ibrahim(as) entails those things.Ibrahim(AS) performed Hajj you know that,all the prophets of Allah offered SOLAT,they paid zakat.

Even you added the part about monotheism in brackets,meaning when the qur'an says you should follow Abraham,it is only saying you should worship no one else but Allah.

And we should follow the footsteps of Ibrahim(as) because He's a role model to all in aspects of Faith[Surah An-Nahl 16:120]

The instruction isn't to follow the exact same religion Abraham followed because [s]Abraham's religion and Muhammed's religion are different[/s]

What's Ibrahim(AS)'s religion then if not Islam? The instruction is to follow the exact faith practised by Ibrahim(AS)
.

All the other prophets in the quran were given laws that were meant for the people in their regions.Only Muhammed's religion was ordained to be for the whole of mankind so how can Muhammed be instructed to follow the same laws Abraham followed?

I am not talking about laws here jare,I am talking about Faith.I agree the Shariah of the past prophets may be different,their faith is the same.All the prophets of Allah believed in all the articles of faiths and uphold the pillars of Islam.

That's all.
Happy Independence day Lanrexlan

Same to you bro,Independence day without electricity,......Peace

lanrexlan:
He may be wrong doesn't mean he's lying.It may be not a deliberate mistake na.

Quit making excuses for him because he is a muslim He made a false assumption and told a lie against me, if he didn't know what my intention was he should have asked instead of accusing me falsely.

There are just six articles of Faith and Jizyah isn't part of it.There are:
1)To believe in Allah(swt)
2)To believe in The revealed Books.
3)To believe in The Angels.
4)To believe in The Messengers(Peace be upon them all)
5)To believe in Destiny(Divine PreOrdainments of Allah).
6)To believe in The Day of Judgement.
Anyone that believes in these and work along it the five pillars of Islam has fulfilled the will of Allah.This is an hadith of our beloved prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

Forget Jizyah for now, let us focus on Eid since thats what the topic is about.
Since these 6 practices you named are the articles of faith and since one celebrating eid is a part of Abraham's faith which muslims should follow then why isn't eid in the six articles you enumerated above?
You claim that celebrating eid was part of Abraham's faith and that is why Muslims have adopted it as part of their faith so why isn't celebrating eid one of the articles of Islamic faith?
Your reason for discarding Jizyah as a part of faith was because it is not in these articles so let me ask you again lanre, is celebrating eid part of your 6 articles of faith?
Since it isn't an article of faith then why do you call it an act of faith that was passed down from Abraham to Muhammed?

This is wrong,the only similarity isn't Monotheism.It's the key but not the only one.Fasting is also in the footsteps of Ibrahim(AS)also[Surah Al-Baqarah 2:183]because he was among those before us,so is SOLAT.
Hajj is definitely in the footsteps of Ibrahim(as),he built the kabba and proclaim the call.

Suratul Baqarah verse 183; O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous
Abraham's name was not mentioned in this verse so how did you come to the conclusion that fasting was ordained for Abraham? The phrase 'those before you' could be referring to other prophets apart from abraham, it could be talking of prophet Isa, prophet Hud or prophet Yunus. Why are you so sure Abraham was among those who fasting was prescribed for? In Islamic beliefs, it is taught that each prophet that came before Muhammed were given a set of laws to follow that were suitable for the people of their time.
What if fasting was not suitable for the people of abraham's time and so allah didn't prescribe it for them?

The faith of Ibrahim(as) entails those things.Ibrahim(AS) performed Hajj you know that,all the prophets of Allah offered SOLAT,they paid zakat.

You have to show me the part of the Quran that says Abraham offered Salaah and paid Zakat.

And we should follow the footsteps of Ibrahim(as) because He's a role model to all in aspects of Faith[Surah An-Nahl 16:120]
What's Ibrahim(AS)'s religion then if not Islam? The instruction is to follow the exact faith practised by Ibrahim(AS)
I am not talking about laws here jare,I am talking about Faith.I agree the Shariah of the past prophets may be different,their faith is the same.All the prophets of Allah believed in all the articles of faiths and uphold the pillars of Islam.

This is what Suratul Nahl verse 20 says;Indeed, Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader, devoutly obedient to Allah , inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah.
It doesn't say Abraham was a role model in ALL aspects of faith.
Part of Islamic faith is believing in the holy books allah sent down from the beginning to the end.
Abraham didn't believe in the Torah because he wasn't alive when it was written.
He didn't believe in the Thalmud, He didn't believe in the Quran. Heck he didn't even believe in Muhammed and belief in Muhammed is very crucial to being a muslim.
So how is Abraham a role model in ALL aspects of faith?
Lastly, celebrating eid is not an article of faith and neither is it a pillar of Islam.

Same to you bro,Independence day without electricity,......Peace

You guys don't have light? Eya.
We had light since morning over here

NL member:
Quit making excuses for him because he is a muslim He made a false assumption and told a lie against me, if he didn't know what my intention was he should have asked instead of accusing me falsely

That was his mistake,he drew conclusion so fast,it's bygone though.

Forget Jizyah for now,let us focus on Eid since thats what the topic is about.
Since these 6 practices you named are the articles of faith and since one celebrating eid is a part of Abraham's faith which muslims should follow then why isn't eid in the six articles you enumerated above?
You claim that celebrating eid was part of Abraham's faith and that is why Muslims have adopted it as part of their faith so why isn't celebrating eid one of the articles of Islamic faith?
Your reason for discarding Jizyah as a part of faith was because it is not in these articles so let me ask you again lanre,is celebrating eid part of your 6 articles of faith?

Since Believe in Allah,his Messengers and holy Scriptures are part of articles of faith.Then Allah told us in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Mutahanah 60:4 -Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim (Abraham) and those with him.....So We follow the examples laid down by Ibrahim(AS),thereby being in line with the articles of Faith.

Since it isn't an article of faith then why do you call it an act of faith that was passed down from Abraham to Muhammed?

It was passed down from Ibrahim(AS) to us because Allah says in Surah As-Saffat 37:107-108 that he leaves a goodly rememberance of Ibrahim(AS) in the later generations and that's entails Eid.Eid is the commemoration of the faith displayed by Ibrahim(AS)
.

Suratul Baqarah verse 183; O you who have believed,decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous
Abraham's name was not mentioned in this verse so how did you come to the conclusion that fasting was ordained for Abraham? The phrase 'those before you' could be referring to other prophets apart from abraham,it could be talking of prophet Isa,prophet Hud or prophet Yunus. Why are you so sure Abraham was among those who fasting was prescribed for? In Islamic beliefs,it is taught that each prophet that came before Muhammed were given a set of laws to follow that were suitable for the people of their time.
What if fasting was not suitable for the people of abraham's time and so allah didn't prescribe it for them?

You are funny bro,Is it because we are talking about Ibrahim(AS)here,that's why you choose to nullify him? Allah says Those before you and Ibrahim(AS) is also among those before us.
Allah
says in the glorious Quran in
Surah Al-Imran 3:68 -Verily,among mankind who have the best claim to Ibrahim (Abraham) are those who followed him,and this Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and those who have believed (Muslims).And Allah is the Wali (Protector and Helper) of the believers.So muslims have best claim to Ibrahim(AS).

You have to show me the part of the Quran that says Abraham offered Salaah and paid Zakat.

Allah says in the glorious Quran in
Surah An-Anbiyaa 21:73 -And We made them(the Prophets) leaders,guiding (mankind) by Our Command,and We inspired in them the doing of good deeds,performing Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat),and the giving of Zakat and of Us (Alone) they were worshippers.Ibrahim(AS) is among the Prophets[Surah Maryam 19:41].

This is what Suratul Nahl verse 20 says;Indeed,Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader,devoutly obedient to Allah,inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah.
It doesn't say Abraham was a role model in ALL aspects of faith.

See the verse of Surah Al-Mutahanah 60:4

Part of Islamic faith is believing in the holy books allah sent down from the beginning to the end.
Abraham didn't believe in the Torah because he wasn't alive when it was written.

Yes,he didn't believe in Taurah because it wasn't in existence during his lifetime,but he believed in the scripture revealed to him[the pages of Ibrahim]

He didn't believe in the Thalmud,He didn't believe in the Quran.Heck he didn't even believe in Muhammed and belief in Muhammed is very crucial to being a muslim.
So how is Abraham a role model in ALL aspects of faith?

We recite the shahadah There's no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad(pbuh)is a messenger of Allah because Muhammad(pbuh)is the last and final messenger.During the time of Ibrahim(AS),he and his people will recite There's no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Ibrahim(AS)is the messenger of Allah.Being a muslim means to submit one's face to Allah[Surah An-Nisa 4:125].

Lastly,celebrating eid is not an article of faith and neither is it a pillar of Islam.

Eid is the commemoration of Hajj which is a pillar of Islam.

You guys don't have light? Eya.
We had light since morning over here

We don't have it o,that's why I replied late,battery down and just recharged.No light since sunday.....Peace

lanrexlan: That was his mistake,he drew conclusion so fast,it's bygone though.

How did I draw conclusion too fast? Please correct me bro

NL member: Muslims don't celebrate christmas because they have been forbidden from celebrating birthdays by muhammed since allah never ordered it in the quran. A true muslim isn't even supposed to celebrate the birth of muhammed (ie Id el .Maulud), all they are supposed to do on Muhammed's birthday is to pray for him.
All this is very funny considering the fact that even their id el Kabir and Id el fitri are never mentioned in the quran either, yet they celebrate them.

What conclusion would you have drawn from the statement above?

golpen:

How did I draw conclusion too fast? Please correct me bro




What conclusion would you have drawn from the statement above?

NL member was looking for the words Eid-Kabir and Eid-Filtri in the Quran.He said

NL member: Ok stop crying and pull yourself together,I don't want to deal with emotional outbursts this afternoon.Golpen,oya quote the part of the quran where eid el fitri and eid el kabir is mentioned

.
Then,he went further to say

NL member: You still didn't quote the part of the quran where eid el kabir and eid el fitri were mentioned.The word “Eid” appears in Sura al-Mai’da (“The Table Spread,” Chapter 5) of the Qur’an,meaning ‘solemn festival

.He sounded like someone looking for those words initially to me.
That's why I asked first before explaining what gave birth to Eid-Kabir.I said

lanrexlan: Are you looking for the word Eid Filtri and Eid Kabir?

Who moved the topic to this section?

I hope none of my posts have been modified sha, I haven't had time to go through the thread again.

Lanrexlan, at this point in the discussion it has become blatantly clear to me that you have now resorted to grasping straws and quoting quranic verses out of context to prove your point.
Let me show you what I mean.

lanrexlan:


Since Believe in Allah,his Messengers and holy Scriptures are part of articles of faith.Then Allah told us in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Mutahanah 60:4 -Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim (Abraham) and those with him.....So We follow the examples laid down by Ibrahim(AS),thereby being in line with the articles of Faith.

Do you think I don't I don't own a quran? Or do you think it would be difficult for me to google the verses you are wrongly quoting and find you out?
You quoted verse 4 of suratul Mumtahinah which was VERY OBVIOUSLY the continuation of another verse and not only that, you quoted it half way and then falsely drew the conclusion that the verse is talking about emulating Abraham when it comes to all matters of faith.
That verse isn't talking about emulating Abraham in all matters of faith. It was a specific case given to Muhammed on how he should relate with the unbelievers wh constantly reject them. This is the full verse, starting from the preceding verse and the full story of the context of that verse is included in my own quote;
Q60v3: Never will your relatives or children benefit you; the Day of resurrection He will judge between you. And allah, of what you do, is seeing.
Q60v4:There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, [size=13pt]when they said to their people[/size], "Indeed we are dissociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever untill you believe in Allah alone" - except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the Final destination.
Q60v5: Our Lord, make us not [objects of] torment for the disbelievers and forgive us, our Lord. Indeed, it is You who is the Exaclted in Might, the Wise".
Q60v6: There has certainly been for you in them an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day. And whoever turns away - then indeed, Allah is the Free of need, the Praisworthy.

As you can see from the above verses, the context of Suratul Mumtahinah verse 4 is to inform the Muhammed that he take an example from abraham AND THOSE WITH ABRAHAM AT THAT time, when they were dissociating themselves from the idols the other people worshipped. Those verses are informing him to also seperate himself from the idolatory of the unbelievers, the verses are not saying Muhammed should take Abraham as an example in all matters of faith.
No sir, they aren't.
Let's not twist verses here to get our point across ok?

It was passed down from Ibrahim(AS) to us because Allah says in Surah As-Saffat 37:107-108 that he leaves a goodly rememberance of Ibrahim(AS) in the later generations and that's entails Eid.Eid is the commemoration of the faith displayed by Ibrahim(AS)

Abeg I no fit laugh
'A goodly remembrance' entails eid? A goodly remembrance means nothing but a favourable reminder or a favourable mention. Remembrance means reminder, something to draw people's minds back to an event that occurred before. Even my Yusuf
Ali translation of the quran says in Surah as Saffat verse 107 to 109; Verse 107: And we ransomed him with a great sacrifice,
Verse 108: And we left for him [favourable mention] among later generations:
Verse 109: "Peace upon Abraham."

Check out the bolded part, it specifically states what the favourable mention was ie 'peace upon Abraham'. Verse 108 doesn't end with a full stop because the speech doesn't end there. It ends with a colon ---> : . And the next verse is a continuation of the speech in 108. In that continuation, the specific meaning of favourable mention (peace upon Abraham) is stated in quotes --->"....".

You are funny bro,Is it because we are talkig about Ibrahim(AS)here,that's why you choose to nullify him? Allah says Those before you and Ibrahim(AS) is also among those before us.
Allah
says in the glorious Quran in
Surah Al-Imran 3:68 -Verily,among mankind who have the best claim to Ibrahim (Abraham) are those who followed him,and this Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and those who have believed (Muslims).And Allah is the Wali (Protector and Helper) of the believers.So muslims have best claim to Ibrahim(AS).

Having a claim to Abraham does not mean you have to do what Abraham did. This is the dictionary definition of what having a claim to someone/something means;
To have a claim on someone/something: An assertion of right to possession of a person or thing.
It doesn't mean to follow their footsteps kwo?
And again, you quoted this verse out of context. The verse before it says; Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah]. And he was not of the polytheists.

Surah al -mran verse 68 means Muslims have a claim on Abraham so they can claim that Abraham was one of them ie a Muslim like them. Abraham was not a Muslim that performed every Islamic ritual they perform, but he was one that submits to Allah and is not a polytheist.

Yes,he didn't believe in Taurah because it wasn't in existence during his lifetime,but he believed in the scripture revealed to him[the pages of Ibrahim]
We recite the shahadah There's no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad(pbuh)is a messenger of Allah because Muhammad(pbuh)is the last and final messenger. During the time of Ibrahim(AS),he and his people will recite There's no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Ibrahim(AS)is the messenger of Allah.Being a muslim means to submit one's face to Allah[Surah An-Nisa 4:125].

Why are you now making exceptions for. Muslims who follow Abraham? You said earlier that Muslims are supposed to follow Abraham in ALL matters of faith and now you are saying there is an exception when it comes to believing in Muhammed and believing in the quran. Do you see how you contradict yourself?
Two articles of faith in Islam are very crucial and they are belief in Muhammed and belief in the quran. Abraham never did those things so he is not to be emulated in ALL matters of faith, that fact is as clear as daylight. No long argument can change it.

Eid is the commemoration of Hajj which is a pillar of Islam.

Eid is not a commemoration of hajj. Why?

1. Abraham was not performing hajj when he was told by Allah to kill a ram in place of his son. Killing the ram was an independent act from performing hajj.

2. Muhammed started celebrating Eid ul Adha years before he started to perform hajj. Infact there is an hadith that states that Muhammed initiated the two eids after watching the pagans celebrate their two major festivals. He saw the pagans celebrating and then told the Muslims that Allah has substituted the two pagan festivals with two better festivals which were Eid ul Adha and Eid ul Fitr.
Anas ibn Malik reports that the Prophet came to Madina and saw they had two days of festivity. He asked, ‘What are these two days?’ They said, ‘We used to celebrate these days in Jahiliyya. The Prophet (PBUH) said, ‘Allah has replaced them with better two days: the day of Fitr and the day of Adha

Also, the first Eid ul Adha celebration was done in the second year of Hijrah while Hajj pilgrimage was made obligatory in the ninth year of Hijrah. If Eid ul Adha is a commemoration of Hajj then the two occaisions would have been performed at the same time. They would have had the same year of origin.
Even after the Hajj was made obligatory, Eid al-Adha remained an independent institution. There is no report that the Prophet (PBUH) made any conscious effort to find out the Day of Arafah or to correlate Eid al-Adha with the Day of Hajj or 10th of Zil-Hajjah in Makkah. Had it been a significant religious issue to link the Adha with Hajj then the Prophet (PBUH) would have made efforts to search for the Day of Arafah in Makkah. Instead he went with the local sighting of Madinah.
The Muslim Ummah for the last fourteen centuries has been following this tradition of separating the Adha from Hajj. History tells us that no Caliph or scholar has ever tried to search for the Day of Arafah in Makkah and connect Eid al-Adha with it. Actually doing so would have been an unsurpassable challenge as Islam is spread across the world and it would have caused undue hardships for the Ummah. That is why the classical jurists have not worried about this issue at all. They seem to be content with the local moon sighting and connecting Eid al-Adha with the locally agreed upon 10th of Zil-Hajjah, rather than Makkan 10th of Zil-Hajjah

You can read more on the issue here;
http://www.islamiccentre.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=643&Itemid=42

We don't have it o,that's why I replied late,battery down and just recharged.No light since sunday.....Peace

You don't have to explain your reasons for replying late to me. I really don't care how long it took you to charge your phone or how long it took you to compose a reply.

NL member,see you next time
**unfollows thread**.....Peace

lanrexlan: NL member,see you next time
**unfollows thread**.....Peace

Ok. It was nice discussing with you.

Since the thread has drifted so far off topic, I wud assume that d matter has been solved concerning the question of the Op. Now to deal with d reigning dispute. @Nl member There are two sources of guidance for muslims: the noble quran, and the hadith (recorded traditions of the prophet). What u are asking for is for us to provide u an ayat of the Quran where the two Eids are mentioned (preferably by name). U see, even if it is not detailed in the quran, the hadith give us the nitty gritty of the occassion and the reasons and origins of it. And u are a living witness to that, since u are quoting hadith showing that it originated from the Prophet himself declaring that Allah ordained the two Eids, now if u don't believe the hadith, or don't believe that Muhammed(SAW) was a prophet is another entire topic, but if u are asking for a valid proof of the authencity for the Eid, the hadith wud suffice, so thanks for bringing it forth. But out of curiousity, what do u really hope to gain from ds little debate, every single christian festival has controversial origins but it doesn't deter most christians from partaking in them (am not looking for a debate about d origins of ur festivals), so y wud u see in an authentic hadith that d origin of the Eid is from the Prophet(SAW) and still want us to proof it from d Quran?

Akin d archi: Since the thread has drifted so far off topic, I wud assume that d matter has been solved concerning the question of the Op. Now to deal with d reigning dispute. @Nl member There are two sources of guidance for muslims: the noble quran, and the hadith (recorded traditions of the prophet). What u are asking for is for us to provide u an ayat of the Quran where the two Eids are mentioned (preferably by name). U see, even if it is not detailed in the quran, the hadith give us the nitty gritty of the occassion and the reasons and origins of it. And u are a living witness to that, since u are quoting hadith showing that it originated from the Prophet himself declaring that Allah ordained the two Eids, now if u don't believe the hadith, or don't believe that Muhammed(SAW) was a prophet is another entire topic, but if u are asking for a valid proof of the authencity for the Eid, the hadith wud suffice, so thanks for bringing it forth. But out of curiousity, what do u really hope to gain from ds little debate, every single christian festival has controversial origins but it doesn't deter most christians from partaking in them (am not looking for a debate about d origins of ur festivals), so y wud u see in an authentic hadith that d origin of the Eid is from the Prophet(SAW) and still want us to proof it from d Quran?

Just keep quiet there. Am sure you are one of those Muslims that didn't even know that Eid has its origins in Hadith and not the quran, just because I've shown it to you you are here making mouth.

By the way I never asked any one to provide origins of eid in the quran, I only stated that the eids were not mentioned in the quran before your muslim brothers came into the thread trying to proove that my claim was wrong.

good for you, I am sure those that wud benefit from my post have benefitted, if u still avnt got the gist, no matter how many times I repost, u wud not get. Once again thanks for saving us the trouble of fetching that hadith. To those who reflect, Allah says in d quran (I am not quoting) that the Prophet(SAW) doesn't speak from his whims and fancies but every word he utters is a revelation...and our good friend here has brought forth authentic hadith saying the Prophet (SAW) SPOKE about the two Eid...I should think only a very very slow person wudnt be able to put two and two together

Akin d archi: good for you, I am sure those that wud benefit from my post have benefitted, if u still avnt got the gist, no matter how many times I repost, u wud not get. Once again thanks for saving us the trouble of fetching that hadith. To those who reflect, Allah says in d quran (I am not quoting) that the Prophet(SAW) doesn't speak from his whims and fancies but every word he utters is a revelation...and our good friend here has brought forth authentic hadith saying the Prophet (SAW) SPOKE about the two Eid...I should think only a very very slow person wudnt be able to put two and two together

Do you have comprehension problems or somthing?

I said at the beginning of the thread that there is no mention of eid in the quran. Did I say your prophet never mentioned eid?
No.
Did I say there is no basis for eid at all in any records? No.
What I said was that they weren't in the quran before some people assumed that I didn't know what I was saying and started the long and pointless argument in this thread.

Please try to read and comprehend next time before writing anything.


Isn't it funny that all through the while the argument between me and others was going on you never uttered a word, you never came forward to support your brothers and now after the argument ended you come forward to bring up a non issue that is not related to the topic of the debate on this thread?
Stop trying to stoke unnecessary flames. Just go back and read through from the beginning of the thread if you don't know what me and lanrexlan were talking about.

Akin d archi: good for you, I am sure those that wud benefit from my post have benefitted, if u still avnt got the gist, no matter how many times I repost, u wud not get. Once again thanks for saving us the trouble of fetching that hadith. To those who reflect, Allah says in d quran (I am not quoting) that the Prophet(SAW) doesn't speak from his whims and fancies but every word he utters is a revelation...and our good friend here has brought forth authentic hadith saying the Prophet (SAW) SPOKE about the two Eid...I should think only a very very slow person wudnt be able to put two and two together

Infact I am not done with you. Since you decided to run your mouth, I'll give you plenty to run your mouth about.

The hadith I posted said and I quote, "Allah has replaced two pagan festivals with the two eids." The hadith does not say it is compulsory or obligatory for Muslims to celebrate any of the eids.
It doesn't say "Allah has replaced the two festivals and asked Muslims to celebrate them" so why do you Muslims celebrate the eids when it isn't in the hadith?

It was also stated in another hadith that Muhammed fasted on his birthdays but Muslims world over do not fast on Eid el Maulud.
Why is that?

Oya come and talk some more o, akin since you want to show that you are really knowledgable in Islamic matters.

I am almost certain dat no muslim here has had any problem understanding my post, and I am sure if u only channeled ur research into honestly seeking the truth, u wud find answers to all ur questions, I do not see the relevance indulging in ur little game of who has d last word.

Akin d archi: I am almost certain dat no muslim here has had any problem understanding my post, and I am sure if u only channeled ur research into honestly seeking the truth, u wud find answers to all ur questions, I do not see the relevance indulging in ur little game of who has d last word.

Cat got your tongue?
Answer the darn question.

mtcheeeew....oshi irata ma rayo

It is Sunnah (a symbolic obligation) practised by Holy Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) in an essential religious rite in memory of the sacrifice performed by Prophet Abraham. God put Abraham to a most difficult trial, the details of which are described in the Quran. “O my Lord! Grant me (Abraham) a righteous (son)!” So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear. “Then, when the (the son) reached the age of serious work with him, he said: “O my son I see in a vision that I offer you in sacrifice: Now say what is your view!” (The son) said: “O My father! Do as you are commanded: You will find me if God so wills, one practising patience and constancy!” So when they had both submitted their wills (to God), and he had made him prostrate on his face (for sacrifice), We called out to him: “O Abraham! You have already fulfilled the vision!” Thus indeed do we reward those who do right. “For this was obviously a trial and We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice: and We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times: Peace and salutation to Abraham! (37:100-109).

This is the origin of the Islamic precept of sacrifice in fulfilment of God’s command provided in the Quran: “... to your Lord turn in prayer and sacrifice.” (108:2).

Eshamo: you both have eyes but see nothing. This post Is way beyond your level of understanding. If u Read between the lines u will understand that the point I am trying to drive home is, "if God and Allah are one n d same person, then y can't we have just one religion". Damn!, you both are really dumb so take a chill pill ok.

[quote author=Eshamo] I think my brothers have been working so hard to make you understand and am going to answer your question with another. if 1x1=1, why is 2x2 not equal to 2.

udatso:

Mr eshamo we were provided wiv more Dan one religion, but we all worship d same God in different ways so I don't understand y u av to request for one religion coz if the Almighty has granted us permission to worship Him in different ways den u can keep ur opinions to urself n stop being mean.

#datsall

spartan2709:




Mr eshamo we were provided wiv more Dan one religion, but we all worship d same God in different ways so I don't understand y u av to request for one religion coz if the Almighty has granted us permission to worship Him in different ways den u can keep ur opinions to urself n stop being mean.

#datsall

Haha. This guy isn't mean at all oooooo. Wait till you meet some mean guys