I hope you can distinguish between living and non living things. I am discussing non living here. Now answer the question, how can stone (non living) protect itself?

Alfa Seltzer:

How can a tree put on a bark? Where did it pick it from?

AbuHanifa: I hope you can distinguish between living and non living things. I am discussing non living here. Now answer the question, how can stone (non living) protect itself?

We don't know if it is protecting itself. Stop confusing things.

We observe changes in its outer layer. Why those changes? Why is it different for a stone than other objects, say glass, that are in the same position? We know that stones are not alive but still they react when in contact with other elements. Which brings me back to my theory that they react due to a certain level of awareness. This is why I said they are conscious of their environment. Not alive!

This actually got me cracking. I was somewhere in Ile Ife in 2002 in December. I woke up one day to notice that the formica on the used as the top of a top was rolling up from the edge. I don't need a rocket science to know that it was due to the harmattan. Can we say this came to be as a result of awareness/ consciousness of the formica?[quote author=musa ajebor][/quote]

AbuHanifa: This actually got me cracking. I was somewhere in Ile Ife in 2002 in December. I woke up one day to notice that the formica on the used as the top of a top was rolling up from the edge. I don't need a rocket science to know that it was due to the harmattan. Can we say this came to be as a result of awareness/ consciousness of the formica?

yes.

Alfa Seltzer:

We don't know if it is protecting itself. Stop confusing things.

We observe changes in its outer layer. Why those changes? Why is it different for a stone than other objects, say glass, that are in the same position? We know that stones are not alive but still they react when in contact with other elements. Which brings me back to my theory that they react due to a certain level of awareness. This is why I said they are conscious of their environment. Not alive!

You don't know if it is protecting itself but you concluded initially by asking me why did it want to protect itself.


Glass will react with Hydrofluoric acid. Stone will react to other substances in the environment to appear forming layer. Glass and Stone do react but they are not conscious of anything. No consciousness, no awareness. They react.

"They react due to certain level of awareness". Bros or gal, this is very wrong. You can prove me otherwise except you want to redefine awareness.

Prove it.

Alfa Seltzer:

yes.

AbuHanifa: Prove it.

Prove that you are conscious.

In other words if I can be made to understand that plants react to gravity, which is a physical constant, then is is okay to say stones react to magnetism.
Other forms of stimuli that rocks react to are seismic activity, isostatics adjustments, plate movements etc.

Prove that formica is conscious.

Alfa Seltzer:

Prove that you are conscious.

AbuHanifa: Prove that formica is conscious.

Prove that you are conscious.

Bros, don't use my response to develop yours. Say you don't know and let us rest the case. Nigerians with corner-corner

Alfa Seltzer:

Prove that you are conscious.

AbuHanifa: Bros, don't use my response to develop yours. Say you don't know and let us rest the case. Nigerians with corner-corner

You are the one doing wuruwuru.

I have already said why I believe everything, including formicas are conscious. You have yet to tell us why you are conscious.

Let me state it again. Formicas are conscious because they react to their environment.

Now, tell us why you think you are conscious.

@ ABU
Using ur example of a baby learning after reacting to external stimulus. Can the Same be said of a plant also learning after experiencing an external stimulus.?

musa ajebor: @ ABU
Using ur example of a baby learning after reacting to external stimulus. Can the Same be said of a plant also learning after experiencing an external stimulus.?

Is plant intelligent enough to learn?

Lol. So consciousness and reaction are directly proportional. Interesting! Utterly wrong unless you prove otherwise.

I am conscious because I am intelligent enough to know things around me. I have sensory cells that respond to stimuli. Now you know why I am conscious. Can we say the same for stone?

Alfa Seltzer:

You are the one doing wuruwuru.

I have already said why I believe everything, including formicas are conscious. You have yet to tell us why you are conscious.

Let me state it again. Formicas are conscious because they react to their environment.

Now, tell us why you think you are conscious.

AbuHanifa: Lol. So consciousness and reaction are directly proportional. Interesting! Utterly wrong unless you prove otherwise.

I am conscious because I am intelligent enough to know things around me. I have sensory cells that respond to stimuli. Now you know why I am conscious. Can we say the same for stone?

Haha. Now you are cornered, you bring up intelligence. So amoeba proteus is intelligent? So the mango you are about to eat is intelligent? Ah! That palm tree is full of intelligence and will start solving calculus soon!

Yes. Stones repond to stimuli.

But let's come back to your conscious self because this is interesting. Exactly which parts of your bodies are conscious? Your nails? Teeth? Hair? Blood? Are they conscious?

Lol. Shooting yourself in the foot.

Before I go ahead. Do you know the difference between living and non-living things with their characteristics. I think that is elementary biology. If you don't, then I can't help you. If you do then factor it in the scheme of our discussion and come back to thank me later for enlightenment.

Your answer is full of oxymoron when compared with your line of argument.

Alfa Seltzer:

Haha. Now you are cornered, you bring up intelligence. So amoeba proteus is intelligent? So the mango you are about to eat is intelligent? Ah! That palm tree is full of intelligence and will start solving calculus soon!

Yes. Stones repond to stimuli.

But let's come back to your conscious self because this is interesting. Exactly which parts of your bodies are conscious? Your nails? Teeth? Hair? Blood? Are they conscious?

For the second part. Do you know how you respond to stimuli? Someone needs basic biology here

Alfa Seltzer:

Haha. Now you are cornered, you bring up intelligence. So amoeba proteus is intelligent? So the mango you are about to eat is intelligent? Ah! That palm tree is full of intelligence and will start solving calculus soon!

Yes. Stones repond to stimuli.

But let's come back to your conscious self because this is interesting. Exactly which parts of your bodies are conscious? Your nails? Teeth? Hair? Blood? Are they conscious?

Go through www.billbrouarf.com/intelligence.htm for your question about amoeba and thank me later.

Alfa Seltzer:

Haha. Now you are cornered, you bring up intelligence. So amoeba proteus is intelligent? So the mango you are about to eat is intelligent? Ah! That palm tree is full of intelligence and will start solving calculus soon!

Yes. Stones repond to stimuli.

But let's come back to your conscious self because this is interesting. Exactly which parts of your bodies are conscious? Your nails? Teeth? Hair? Blood? Are they conscious?

AbuHanifa: Go through www.billbrouarf.com/intelligence.htm for your question about amoeba and thank me later.

wtf?

AbuHanifa: For the second part. Do you know how you respond to stimuli? Someone needs basic biology here

If you are still at basic biology level, then I can't help you.

. ASTONISHING!

Alfa Seltzer:

wtf?

AbuHanifa: Lol. Shooting yourself in the foot.

Before I go ahead. Do you know the difference between living and non-living things with their characteristics. I think that is elementary biology. If you don't, then I can't help you. If you do then factor it in the scheme of our discussion and come back to thank me later for enlightenment.

Your answer is full of oxymoron when compared with your line of argument.

I see where you are going.

So consciousness for you is when a living thing responds to stimulus. But when non living things react, it can't be consciousness. Consciousness can only apply to living things. Is this what you have been trying to say?

AbuHanifa: . ASTONISHING!

Very.

AbuHanifa: Is plant intelligent enough to learn?

good enough answer.
Then going by ur earlier comment. If creations at initial stage only react b4 learning to be conscious of their environment. How has plants been able to react continually to stimuli without learning a thing since they are unintelligent.?

Good. Follow these:

Heliotropism: Reaction to sunlight intensity and direction.

Phototropism: Reaction to sunlight.

Gravitropism: Reaction to gravity. We can go on and on.

Notice the word "reaction" not "conscious". Do you know that objects can be conscious of something but not reacting to it and other objects can react to something without being conscious of it . So there is a clear difference between reaction and consciousness.

musa ajebor: good enough answer.
Then going by ur earlier comment. If creations at initial stage only react b4 learning to be conscious of their environment. How has plants been able to react continually to stimuli without learning a thing since they are unintelligent.?

AbuHanifa: Good. Follow these:

Heliotropism: Reaction to sunlight intensity and direction.

Phototropism: Reaction to sunlight.

Gravitropism: Reaction to gravity. We can go on and on.

Notice the word "reaction" not "conscious". Do you know that objects can be conscious of something but not reacting to it and other objects can react to something without being conscious of it . So there is a clear difference between reaction and consciousness.

so plants are living things that are not conscious but they react to stimuli. Is that what u r saying? That their REACTION can be likened to acid+ base=salt+ water.?

Agreed. Your take?

musa ajebor: so plants are living things that are not conscious but they react to stimuli. Is that what u r saying? That their REACTION can be likened to acid+ base=salt+ water.?

Who in God's name will hide my post ban me for a day for no just reason . Nawao

Abuhanifa ur mod friend at work.

Will still give u my take anyways.

My take is u are incorrect when u likene plants response to stimuli to a chemical reaction. Reason is a plant is a living organism unlike acids bases and salt.so u ate wrong on that note.
secondly, when u whre asked by alfa to prove u are conscious here was ur reply

AbuHanifa:

I am conscious because I am intelligent enough to know things around me. I have sensory cells that respond to stimuli. Now you know why I am conscious.

I want to put it to u dat "respond" and" react" are words with similar meaning and can be used interchangeably . U have sensory cells that react to stimuli.that's how u know u are conscious. Also plants know wats going on around their environment too. So wats stoping u from apllying the same logic when it comes to plant consciousness. Stop contradicting your self.
Lastly, humans plant and rock are conscious.the only odd factor is their degree of consciousness varies. U cannot compare the degree of consciousness of man with that of plant. Same way u can't compare that of plants with that of a rock.ciao

Bro. I don't really have a mod as friend perhaps you broke one of the rules.

For what you put up there, I may not be able to continue with another long explanation. Thanks by the way.