I'm sorry but I had to create a topic under culture since I got banned by two different moderators on the Religion and General thread.

I have always been openminded in whatever field/circumstances life throws as me. As I have already mentioned, I'm very traditional much like Pagan9ja who I would someday love to meet and discourse informations relating to religion and culture. I have always been fascinated with the mythologies of this life and cultures/traditions pertaining different ethnicity and tribes in the world. It was through Pagan9ja I learnt the difference between a dialect and language and also between ethnic group and tribe which truthfully speaking, I still have come to fanthom the difference between each.

When relating to religious subjects in regards to Christianity and Islam, it's stale story that Pagan9ja is always on the defence and he is always accusing both Abrahamic religion as man worshipping religions.

Now my question for you Pagan9ja is;

1- Why so much hatred and distrust towards Christianity and Islam?.

2- Why tagging them as man worshippers where in retrospect so many other pagan/traditionalist religion out have Gods/Deity who were once mortal? (e.g Sango and so many others). In my own opinion, they should be classified as man worshipping religions too.

3- Why do I detect so much anger and hostility coming from you in regards to Christians and Muslims. If you were to win lost souls back to their African ancestral cultural practices and religion, force is not the right answer and that's why you seem to be the most hated person on Nairaland (ofcourse, you would come after sexkillz)

4- You claim both religion have caused more harm than good to mankind which history itself accepts your theory, but there have been thousand other pagan religion out there that has caused much more harm towards mankind as Christianity and Islam has.

I for once believe if you were shape humanity and bring us back to our roots, peace should be fundamental in regards towards your teaching. The more you hate towards another's religion, the more your personality and religion is being despised. Don't you think..

I have a question for pagan also, between 1000 a.d and 1600 a.d do you think the majority of hausaland was pagan or muslim, If the former when do you think it became majority muslim?

PAPA AFRICA: I have a question for pagan also, between 1000 a.d and 1600 a.d do you think the majority of hausaland was pagan or muslim, If the former when do you think it became majority muslim?

Islam was brought to Hausaland from Wangara clerics from Mali in the 1200s. Between 1300 and 1600 I assume most Hausa were Muslim.

Fulaman198:

Islam was brought to Hausaland from Wangara clerics from Mali in the 1200s. Between 1300 and 1600 I assume most Hausa were Muslim.

thanks man.

lol 2 days later still no answer...

*Kails*:
lol 2 days later still no answer...

His propbably worshipping pagans.

PAPA AFRICA: thanks man.

Not a problem

lol

https://www.nairaland.com/1456635/question-pagan9ja-fellow-traditionalists-out

My friends, please don't think I'm running away when I don't reply. That is not my style.

If I don't reply, its either because I have not seen it, or I have been too busy and wish to reply later. (especially if the situation might require a long and befitting reply to do justice to the OP).

PAGAN 9JA:
My friends, please don't think I'm running away when I don't reply. That is not my style.

If I don't reply, its either because I have not seen it, or I have been too busy and wish to reply later. (especially if the situation might require a long and befitting reply to do justice to the OP).

We understand, remember I was gone for almost one year, I was very busy during that time period with a new job.

druid06:
Now my question for you Pagan9ja is;

1- Why so much hatred and distrust towards Christianity and Islam?.

2- Why tagging them as man worshippers where in retrospect so many other pagan/traditionalist religion out have Gods/Deity who were once mortal? (e.g Sango and so many others). In my own opinion, they should be classified as man worshipping religions too.

3- Why do I detect so much anger and hostility coming from you in regards to Christians and Muslims. If you were to win lost souls back to their African ancestral cultural practices and religion, force is not the right answer and that's why you seem to be the most hated person on Nairaland (ofcourse, you would come after sexkillz)

4- You claim both religion have caused more harm than good to mankind which history itself accepts your theory, but there have been thousand other pagan religion out there that has caused much more harm towards mankind as Christianity and Islam has.

I for once believe if you were shape humanity and bring us back to our roots, peace should be fundamental in regards towards your teaching. The more you hate towards another's religion, the more your personality and religion is being despised. Don't you think..

1) Because I believe and I know that they are the source of all world problems, including that of Nigeria.
christianity is slow poison and backstabbing. Islam is aggresive and arrogant.

I also personally dislike man-made religion. Leave unto the Gods what belongs to them and leave unto man. .

2) They are man-worshippers in 2 ways:

1) Literally. They place emphasis on the religious and almost "divine" significance of such men (prophets) like moses, jesus and muhammad.
The jews base their religiion on what moses and his 10 commandments had to say. In effect they are worshipping the words of and in essence, the man who wrote them down and claimed them to be of DIvine Providence.

THe christians go one step further and consider jesus the "son of God" and an almost demi-God like figure himself. They worship him, etc., more then they place emphasis on the Spiritual Forces. It would be tolerable if they considered his image as their God. Afterall an image is harmless. However they take the words of the man as gospel truth and law, and claim it to be directives of the Gods. That is preposterous. Infact it has gotten to such an extent whereby, for example, on one of the other threads:

manny4life:
I ask all these in name of God... Amen.

to which the other christians in the house reply:

Chatters:

In the name of JESUS CHRIST...Amen.

ooshinibos:

where is the name of Jesus at end of your prayer , you are a typical religious that likes to pray without result

Virgin Finder:

I thought we Christians are supposed to pray in the Name of Jesus?

Amen!

You see, how they would rather worship the man jesus, rather than the concept of a God, i.e. God itself.

The christians are therefore "direct man-worshippers". Most even place idols of jesus (representing a man, not a God) in their homes and pray to it.

The muslims on the other claim they don't worship muhammad. However in their very main prayer, the Surah AL Fatihah, is placed the name of muhammad and the importance of this human as a divine figure. In effect, they pray by reppeating his verses, they follow what he has to say ( and claim it is the Creator God, Allah who said it) and they do everything that he has asked them to do in the name of the God. Therefore, in effect, they are not worshipping Allah. They are worshipping MUHAMMAD.

2) In practice.

All the above 3 religions portray the importance of man above animals, women and everything in the world. They all stress on the highness and discriminate against any creature that is not a male human. This includes animals.
They stress that everything created was created by the Creator to serve men and their own personal ends.

They also refer to God as "HE", thereby considering the man as reflection of God and the superiority of the male human over everything.


Therefore in practice as well, they are man-worshippers.

Pagan religions do not hold such discriminatory prejudices. Yes it is true that all creatures were not created on this world, but never do we consider women and animals as our tools. We always stress on the need for the balance and co-esixstence of all creatures. This has also earned us the name of "animists". We even give some of the Spiritual Forces (Gods), the images of animals and even women/femininity (Goddesses).


As for us Pagans, we do not worship men. In the pure un-changed Tribal Pagan Religions, I repeat, we do not worship men. We have no prophets, etc.

As for Shango, what does Shango represent?

Shango is the God of Thunder. The SPiritual Parallel of anything that involves the forces of Nature, destruction, justice, righteousness, etc.

Do you know that before Shango ,the old name of the Yoruba God was "Jakuta"


Shango may have been a ruler, whos name was later used to apply to the Thunder God and replaced the older name. Maybe this Ruler had a foreceful and just character.

Whatever the reason, what one must understand is that the THunder God and the rituals , etc and the very "SPiritual Force" associated with these attributes itself didnt change. Its only a change in name.

This is as good as saying, the Saxons call their Thunder God as Thor , while the Aryans call it Indra. The God itself is the same God and applies to everyone.

We do not worship the teachings of men and just delve in pure Spirituality and rituals. therefore in effect, we do not worship men. We do not associate men with religion. Anyone who does that is not practicing religion properly.

We may acknowledge and ask for the intercession of Ancestral Spirits, etc., as the souls are spirits too. However at the end of the day, we recognize them for what they are, i.e., "lesser spirits". And NOT Gods or as the Native Americans call it "The Great Spirit, the Universal Spirit and the Higher Spiritual Forces".

3) My anger and hostility is due to their arrogance, ignorance and the way they are spoiling our world. To be honest with you, I love all Tribespeople and I have no personal hatred against them. That would be against my principles. However if I am not forceful, they won't take me seriously. THey will think Im just one of those new age "activisits" or just a sympathizer.

It is true I have made ignorant enemies, yet i have made a good following and great frinds and I have dragged people out into the open. I therefore feel it was all worth the effort. And I dont intend to change my ways unless it is necessary.

4) Can you please name these religions?
Certainly not my religion.

Im a Tribesman. We are naturally revengeful. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. ...... you know those tinz. I only give peace to those who give me peace in return. However those who have cause me or my brothers and sisters or my tribe or my nation (and they have), they better watch out. They don't deserve any peace unless they make ammends. And I dont mean apology. I mean real ammends.

Fulaman198:

We understand, remember I was gone for almost one year, I was very busy during that time period with a new job.

Thank You.

PAPA AFRICA: I have a question for pagan also, between 1000 a.d and 1600 a.d do you think the majority of hausaland was pagan or muslim, If the former when do you think it became majority muslim?

Fulaman198:

Islam was brought to Hausaland from Wangara clerics from Mali in the 1200s. Between 1300 and 1600 I assume most Hausa were Muslim.

Brother Fula answered your query. However that was mild islam, similar to Sufiism. Therefore the level of syncretism was very high as this islam incorporated Traditional Religion. Infact most Hausa followed dual religion.

In the Royal Courts, there were these muslim scholars and the Boori cult was also the official religious order of the Court.

Some Hausa rulers made islam the state religion, some relapsed to make Hausa religion the state religion and so on.

Also the phesant/farmer class was mostly Pagan compared to the city-dwellers in Kano, etc. And Farming is the traditional occupation of the Hausa.

However the islam brought by bii Fodio was the fanatical and purer islam (Maliki SUnni Islam) which is also the legal State religion in Arab GUlf countries today, like Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, etc. He also led the imposition of Shariaá to displace Trad. Hausa courts and laws.

PAGAN 9JA:


He also led the imposition of Shariaá to displace Trad. Hausa courts and laws.

And Fulaman wants Sharia for the rest of Nigeria. So you see, there is really nothing majority of the Negro Africanus can offer apart from foreign ideologies and consciousness. Most of the talk on this forum, na just "abawe".

eziza:

And Fulaman wants Sharia for the rest of Nigeria. So you see, there is really nothing majority of the Negro Africanus can offer apart from foreign ideologies and consciousness. Most of the talk on this forum, na just "abawe".

LOL huh? I never even said that are you ok Eziza?

^lol, but you said you support Sharia tho? Abi you don forget?

eziza: ^lol, but you said you support Sharia tho? Abi you don forget?

Aah aah, I said I am not against it, however I said for a country to be successful it needs to separate religion from politics. I have nothing against those who practice it, however it should never be integrated into a governing body.

And that my friend is what I call "abawe" comment because the tenent of Sharia are laws that govern a people. And the people who have adopted Sharia to govern their lives are the ones pushing for it to be integrated into other parts of the society where it has not been adopted.

eziza: And that my friend is what I call "abawe" comment because the tenent of Sharia are laws that govern a people. And the people who have adopted Sharia to govern their lives are the ones pushing for it to be integrated into other parts of the society where it has not been adopted.

Everyone has the freedom to live their lives the way they want to. If they want to live under Sharia in their homes, let them do so, but to make it a widespread thing, it holds back our government from realising its full potential. Dis no be abawe comment o

lol, you nor see Fulaman? Here you are defending your Arabo influenced way of life in place of the African traditional way and you see nothing wrong with it. But if it was anything western, you for don cry foul since. My point still remains tho, the Negro Africanus really has nothing to offer apart from a foreign way of life. Anyway, later.

eziza: lol, you nor see Fulaman? Here you are defending your Arabo influenced way of life in place of the African traditional way and you see nothing wrong with it. But it was anything western, you for don cry foul since. My point still remains tho, the Negro Africanus really has nothing to offer apart from a foreign way of life. Anyway, later.

My dear Ms. Eziza, Sharia law can not exist on a political basis is what I am saying. I think you misunderstand. I said people can practice Sharia law in their homes, no one is stopping them from doing so. It is like me telling Christians to not be Christian in their house. Sharia is a part of their way of life. It is a choice that they have. They do not have to practice Sharia in their houses. I just do not want it influencing Nigeria's already terrible politics. We need people who are properly educated with the right mindset to bring Nigeria to a level it deserves to be.

Your comment does not add up. Or don't you know people are always going to try and influence others with their way of life? That's human nature, you know?

And is it surprising that a segment of the Nigerian populace who have adopted Sharia as a way of life are already pushing for that influence? Either through peaceful negotiation or terrorism?

eziza: Your comment does not add up. Or don't you know people are always going to try and influence others with their way of life? That's human nature, you know?

And is it surprising that a segment of the Nigerian populace who have adopted Sharia as a way of life are already pushing for that influence? Either through peaceful negotiation or terrorism?

Let's make no mistake here, Boko haram people are not Muslim, they use religion as an excuse to commit crimes, kind of like the KKK of the United States.

You are not understanding what I am saying, what I am saying is let people be free in what they worship as long as they do it from the comfort of their own homes. Whether a man worships women as his Gods (I should say Goddesses), if someone wants to worship a Sea God like Beto let them do so, if they want to worship Olorun, Shango, etc. if they want to practise Sharia law worship Allah, want to worship Christ Jesus, I do not care, let them do so.

What I am saying is that religious practises should not hinder a nation from developing or improving, if people want to practise religion, let them do it from their homes, it should have no effect over how things are governed. Let them just not say " My 'X' practise is superior to 'Y' practise" because that creates conflict.

lol, funny how you latched on to Boko Haram as if they are the only ones pushing for Sharia. There are two elements that want Sharia, one is using the extreme measures while the other who do not subscribe to terrorism are using negotiations. Those are not Muslims too?

So let's say a state like Zamfara was not part of the greater polity Nigeria and it was a nation of its own. Sharia will be used to govern the nation tho? So will you denounce it?

eziza: lol, funny how you latched on to Boko Haram as if they are the only ones pushing for Sharia. There are two elements that want Sharia, one is using the extreme measures while the other who do not subscribe to terrorism are using negotiations. Those are not Muslims too?

So let's say a state like Zamfara was not part of the greater polity Nigeria and it was a nation of its own. Sharia will be used to govern the nation tho? So will you denounce it?

A Muslim is someone who has the power of choice, When you have radical so called Christians and Muslims going about trying to push for their own way of things happening, that is not the true element of the religion. Do not let man made error made by few people speak of the actions of a whole religion or a wholes religion populice. That is called generalisation.

Answer the simple question, damnit!

eziza: Answer the simple question, damnit!

The way you speak is as if you were not raised with proper etiquette. It's all about what the people want. If people want themselves to be ruled by Sharia law then they will. If they want to be ruled by beautiful women then they will, if they want to be ruled by evil, selfish people then ok. In the end it is what the people want. God gave us all the ability to choose. Some human beings on the other hand just enjoy making life difficult for others.

Someone raised with proper etiquette will not ignore a question and wait to be reminded of it before it is answered. That's rude.

But you nor see you now? It means you will not denounce Sharia if a nation adopts it and you did not actually believe what you were spewing earlier that it should never be integrated into the governing body of a nation.

So when the voices in Nigeria that want Sharia become loud enough, you are all for it, abi? Uhundan.

About Sharia'a, some aspects of their law are Good/ok (some direct and fair punishments) ,whereas some are not. (blasphemy laws, adultery,etc.)

In a Nation like Nigeria we must keep what is good, and throw away the rest.

PAGAN 9JA:
My friends, please don't think I'm running away when I don't reply. That is not my style.

If I don't reply, its either because I have not seen it, or I have been too busy and wish to reply later. (especially if the situation might require a long and befitting reply to do justice to the OP).

oh ok. i was just kidding tho,
glad to have you back