It's a waste of time replying this Macof and logicbwoy.

Our Lord! (they say), Let not our hearts deviate now after Thou hast guided us, but grant us mercy from Thine own Presence; for Thou art the Grantor of bounties without measure
[3:8]
Rabbana la tuzigh quloobana ba'da idh hadaytana wa hab lana milladunka rahmah innaka antal Wahhab

رَبَّنَا لاَ تُزِغْ قُلُوبَنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَيْتَنَا وَهَبْ لَنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ رَحْمَةً إِنَّكَ أَنتَالْوَهَّابُ
[8: آل عمران]

babylolaroy: aminah, sugbon yu sef geh plenty time o...haha. shey illogicboi fe lo hijab ni

that bolded reminds me of someone... She calls him that too... Meanwhile, gbogbo yin elo sun...

Mooxy:


Please revisit my comment again. I used the word 'STRAY' not 'STAY'. That's english for you, a single word can render a whole sentence an entirely different meaning.

In fact, it's a slap on my face to say "they stay from the right path". What I wrote was " STRAY from the right path". Perhaps, you need some sleep, huh?

I clearly meant to write "stray".

Unfortunately for you, "stray from" and "stay from" would connote the same thing- they are not on the right path.

Smh....it still doesnt change the point. I understand that you are desperate

ameenahz:

Chei, na wa o! You asked for verses, i brought them. Now you are bringing out another 'problem' from it.

Anyways, again sir, you are wrong. In my case, no cleric shoved anything down my throat. I read my Qur'an, the tafsir and did what was right.
You obviously read the verses with a biased, un-open mind. Now re-read...

......'extend their head covering (khimar) over their bossoms'......

.......'Draw your outer-garment or cloak 'jilbaab' all over your body....



2) The second verse i quoted didnt say 'women' who are not interested in marriage. It said 'women past childbearing age', in other words, women who can no longer have children or who do not expect wedlock or menopausal women
And it is not 'some Qur'aans'. It is some Qur'an translators.

Nice try....the verses do not say what you want to force it to say;

-the hijab/burkha is compulsory.


It just doesnt say that




2) The verse clearly says "not interested in marriage"

And women of post-menstrual age who have no desire for marriage - there is no blame upon them for putting aside their outer garments [but] not displaying adornment. But to modestly refrain [from that] is better for them. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.




3) ......'extend their head covering (khimar) over their bossoms'......

(Point here is to cover your bosoms)

.......'Draw your outer-garment or cloak 'jilbaab' all over your body....

(cut n paste- the full verse is for travelling and also contradictory- cover yourself to be recognized)

macof:


I can write in my ancestral language perfectly, however I choose to write in English for the benefit of those that are reading my comments, whom might not understand how to read Yoruba.
Besides English is the official language of Nigeria, Indians speak and write in English too, despite being majorly pagans.

U obviously know nothing about Yoruba spirituality , my ancestors never sacrificed twins.
Ibeji(twins) have always been cherished in yorubaland, we even have a god for twins, that brings fortune into the family of the twins. Only a crazy man who knows nothing about Yoruba history or spirituality would say Yoruba pagans sacrifice twins.

I dont know of any human sacrifice among the yoruba sprituality, Ifa doesnt condule killing of humans for the sake of any Orisha. though in the past human sacrifice in Africa as been done with foreigners or criminals not innocent people.
Foreigners back then were into spying and invasion strategies so when found guilty(still criminal) they are used to nourish the nature forces around the community.
However this stopped a long time ago, it's not an issue in African paganism anymore.



You say paganism is superstition Are u crazy? Islam is the greatest superstition of all time


You are really ignorant about the Arabs and don't even know the history of your religion.

Mohammed was a political crook, he and his father was pagan but he decided to elevate the god of his family and discard other gods of the Arab religion.
Truly Allah is a high ranked god in pre-Islam Arabia(am still studying it anyway, and I think he was the creator God and supreme God in pre-Islam Arabia) but he was never the only god, in pre-Islam Allah had brothers, daughters and sons who he gave powers to control aspects of the universe.
But Mohammed being influenced by Jews learnt monotheism(judaism, created by Moses) and adopted the idea, then proclaimed Allah(God of his family) the only God and discarded all other gods.

Are you 'low' on something?...Allah had siblings?

Aminah...pls dont reply him...he needs yu both to go on and on...

Logicbwoy:

Nice try....the verses do not say what you want to force it to say;

-the hijab/burkha is compulsory.


It just doesnt say that




2) The verse clearly says "not interested in marriage"

And women of post-menstrual age who have no desire for marriage - there is no blame upon them for putting aside their outer garments [but] not displaying adornment. But to modestly refrain [from that] is better for them. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.




3) ......'extend their head covering (khimar) over their bossoms'......

(Point here is to cover your bosoms)

.......'Draw your outer-garment or cloak 'jilbaab' all over your body....

(cut n paste- the full verse is for travelling and also contradictory- cover yourself to be recognized)

I'm surprised you are accusing me of doing the same thing you are guilty of- giving a verse the meaning you want it to have.




Qur'an 24 vs 31: the verse clearly said head covering- khimar. If it were to be our regular clothes, why should the word 'head covering' be used? Shey you expect regular clothes to start from the head ni? My buba starts from the neck o.





Qur'an 24 vs 60: i checked some other traslations online and i saw that some actually said 'who have no desire for marriage'. But the preceeding phrase in all the translations said 'for women past childbearing age' or 'for women past menstrual age' or 'for women advanced in age'.


What othe command do we need before we wear hijab after Allah has told us to draw our head coverings over our bossoms?

3) Qur'an 33:59: please go for tafsir ibn Kathir since you seem to have access to these books. The most widely accepted 'condition' is 'whenever you are outside your homes'. Again.....
....draw your outer garments over yourselves (whenever you are outside your homes)....

And the terms and conditions of who a mahram (who a woman can expose her beauty to) is as stated in Quran 24 vs 31 still apply.

babylolaroy: Aminah...pls dont reply him...he needs yu both to go on and on...

Thanks sis. Although i saw this too late. I'm beginning to think so too. I have given up on him this minute.

Anvaller: @OP I beg to disagree with you. U can not categorically state that a woman who doesn't wear hijab is committing a sin or will go to hell. Now u have quoted 2 verses from 2 surahs and u went ahead and said it was explicitly ordered. Well Alfa, nothing is explicit about the order of Hijab in the quoted verses. Did u not read it?

You don't need to disagree with me, am I the one who revealed the Quran to the prophet (SAW), Allah said in Q33:59 that
‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib" veils all over their bodies that is most convenient that they should be known (as such) and not molested: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful."

MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS THAT, ARE U NOT AMONG THE BELIEVING WOMAN?

Anvaller:
Do u want to know what is explicit? What is explicit in those verses is that women should cover their modesty, they should wear clothes "garments" that cover their bosoms. Now we all know what bosom is. And what is also clear is that there is an exception, "except the parts that are apparent thereof" so which part of a woman can reveal the beauty of a woman apparently? The face, the hair, the arms and the legs (if she has beautiful arms and legs)

That's your personal opinion, Allah said in Quran that "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye DIFFER IN ANYTHING among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination (4:59)
So, the case of Hijab and Jilibab must refer to what Allah and his Prophet (SAW) said, not personal opinion. Islam is not based on Personal ideology or opinion

Anvaller: @
Any Muslim woman who wants to wear hijab can wear it but u should stop imposing it as if it is obligatory for all Muslim women. What is obligatory is to dress modestly and not expose ur "vital" body parts or clothes that are too tight on you. What I expect from this kind of teaching from Alfas like u is teach women on the importance of dressing modestly, and what God says about dressing modestly, that is the bottom line.

Again from surat nur,
24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's unclothedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed

POINTS IN ABOVE VERSE ARE:
1. To display of their adornment only that which is apparent;

2. to draw their veils over their bosoms:

3. and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers,

From point no 1, Allah mentioned "display of their adornment" that's ur clothes, ur jeweries etc

and from point 2, He said "to draw their VEILS over their bosoms that's to cover all that HE mentioned in point 1,

And to understand d verses very well from point 3, Allah said "and not to reveal ur adornment(clothes, IRO and BUBA, BLOUSE and SKIRT, jeweries) to anybody except ur HUSBAND, ur FATHER, ur HUSBAND's FATHER..........

LASTLY, one other evidence from book of Allah which confirms that d generality of Muslim women are ordered to wear d JALABIB which is not the same as ur IRO and BUBA or ordinary clothes is,

Allah said in Q24:60;
And (as for) women advanced in years who do not hope for a marriage, it is no sin for them if they put off their clothes without displaying their ornaments; and if they restrain themselves it is better for them; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing

The above verse means that "it is no sin on them if they put off their clothes I.e JALIBAB and they appear b4 men in their indoor and normal dress provided they do not throw away prudence and excite lust.

hmm, this is the most wonderful topic i've seen on nairaland, as a muslim your ultimate goal is to succeed in the hearafter, to make it to paradise and that means you must prefer the hearafter to this world and die on that path.
my sisters the world will never appreciate hijab so forget about what the world thinks and wear your hijab, i mean the hijab standard that is required of you by the Qur'an and Authentic Hadith of RASUULULLAH (S.A.W).
my sisters dont wear half hijabs as some ignorant and defiants arabian, hausa, fulani, yoruba, europeans etc muslims do, Islam is solely owned by ALLAH not by any tribe, so it is the standard of ALLAH that you should follow.
my sisters they will call you names e.g pretenders, ninjas, terrorists, conservatives, uncivilized, ugly etc please bear with all they say patiently as ALLAH hears every word spoken in the heavens or earth by any creature whatsoever and HE will judge everyone accordingly as ALLAH is the best of judges.
my sisters dont be deceived by the devil and his associates that the hijab will deprive you of anything in life, reject out rightly any job, studies, social gathering, fashion vogue, sports, entertainment etc that requires you to dismantle and disregard the hijab, ALLAH is the only one that sustains the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, ALLAH gave us day and night, sun and moon, stars, rainfall, the wide and expanse earth, sense organs and the remaining countless favours freely, so seek only HIS pleasure rather than anyone else.

deols:

ma sha Allah. I always like it when you tell your stories. Long time. How have you been?

Hijab is beautiful.

1. Nobel Peace prize winner, Dr. Tawwakul Karman, when asked about her HIJAB by journalist, how it is not proportionate with her level of intellect and education, she replied:

"Man in early time was nearly naked, and as his intellect evolved, he started wearing clothes. What I am today and what am wearing represents the highest level of thought and civilization that man has achieved, and is not regressive. Its the removal of clothes again that is a regression back to the primitive and ancient times. "

2. "If virgin Mary appears wearing veil in all her pictures, how can you ask me to sign on a Hijab Ban law?"
~Roberto Maroni, Italian Minister.

3. Muhammad Ali's advice for his daughters following indecent dressing:
www.islamcan.com/islamic-stories/muhammad-alis-advice-to-his-daughters.shtml

babylolaroy:
Are you 'low' on something?...Allah had siblings?

pls read
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

It tells that in pre-Islam Arabia, Allah was not the only God, he had sons and daughters would the Arabs worshipped.

Salaam.
Good day ayeen02. You give the impression that you either didn't read my thread 's op or you just glanced it for 6.5 mins. Please if am right, go back to it and study it vigorously. The quoted verses are no figment of my imagination. They are verses of the Statute Book.

Back to hijab issue.
Qur'an 24:31
"Khimar" in the verse has been generally distorted to mean headscarf. According to typical arabic or Qur'an, a "khimar" is a cover or shield of any material. A "khimar" could be a scarf,veil,headtie,jacket,carpet,curtain,wrapper,skirt, shirt e.t.c. The commandment is; "draw your veil/covering/clothes over your bosom", which simply means, cover your chest or bosom with your outfit. The word head,hair,face or neck wasn't mentioned in the verse. You can see the emphasis is soley on covering the bosom from lustful gaze.
Towards the end of this verse, we read; "do not strike your feet to draw attention to your hidden ornaments(zeenatahuna)...". Ornaments/beauty/adornment in the context of this verse refer not to jewelries but to attractive, lust inciting body parts like bosom,thighs and butt whose shape and size can be outlined by striking the feet while walking. Certainly jewelries like ring,necklace or wristwatches' revealing have nothing to do with striking one 's feet.

Qur'an 33:59
simply further explain 24:31 without adding more rulings. It is simple, pull or lengthen your garment or outfit over yourself to cover your unclothedness and this can be achieved by even just a skirt and blouse. Just ensure they aren't skin-fit. Outer garments or cloak is whatever is worn over the undergarments(vests,pants e.t.c). Provided the outfit is not skimpy or short, the extent of lengthening it or drawing it over the body is the personal choice of any woman.

Note my friend,how your translation is full of parenthesis to further explain the verses. The Qur'an is made up of 6348 verses, no parenthesis, no footnotes. What you find in the parenthesis are the translator 's own word,not GOD 's. They could sometimes be wrong as in the above dress code verses.

Pls,let 's stop this attitude of self righteousness. Recall righteousness is the best clothing Qur'an 7:26. One must not try to appear righteous, one must try to be righteous. A righteous woman doesn't have to wear niqab,abaya or khimar to be respected. That she is not using the above garment doesn't mean she is unclad or immoral. If as a woman you insist you must don a khimar,abaya or niqab to look decent, different story, but to claim these specific dresses are scriptural commandments is to err. Even the Torah and Gospel didn't ask women to cover their head,hair,face or all over from head to toe.

babakb: hmm, this is the most wonderful topic i've seen on nairaland, as a muslim your ultimate goal is to succeed in the hearafter, to make it to paradise and that means you must prefer the hearafter to this world and die on that path.
my sisters the world will never appreciate hijab so forget about what the world thinks and wear your hijab, i mean the hijab standard that is required of you by the Qur'an and Authentic Hadith of RASUULULLAH (S.A.W).
my sisters dont wear half hijabs as some ignorant and defiants arabian, hausa, fulani, yoruba, europeans etc muslims do, Islam is solely owned by ALLAH not by any tribe, so it is the standard of ALLAH that you should follow.
my sisters they will call you names e.g pretenders, ninjas, terrorists, conservatives, uncivilized, ugly etc please bear with all they say patiently as ALLAH hears every word spoken in the heavens or earth by any creature whatsoever and HE will judge everyone accordingly as ALLAH is the best of judges.
my sisters dont be deceived by the devil and his associates that the hijab will deprive you of anything in life, reject out rightly any job, studies, social gathering, fashion vogue, sports, entertainment etc that requires you to dismantle and disregard the hijab, ALLAH is the only one that sustains the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, ALLAH gave us day and night, sun and moon, stars, rainfall, the wide and expanse earth, sense organs and the remaining countless favours freely, so seek only HIS pleasure rather than anyone else.

thanx. i wudav appreciated this without a 'but'...but no
why would you say sisters wearing half hijab are ignorant or defiant?. its not okay to say so nd it bami bi bomb ni. i wear half hijab to my thighs, not because i dont prefer longer ones buh because am still 'working on it'..i pray Allah assist me on dat. i wud love you to modify that if you can


salaam

usermane: Salaam.
Good day ayeen02. You give the impression that you either didn't read my thread 's op or you just glanced it for 6.5 mins. Please if am right, go back to it and study it vigorously. The quoted verses are no figment of my imagination. They are verses of the Statute Book.

Back to hijab issue.
Qur'an 24:31
"Khimar" in the verse has been generally distorted to mean headscarf. According to typical arabic or Qur'an, a "khimar" is a cover or shield of any material. A "khimar" could be a scarf,veil,headtie,jacket,carpet,curtain,wrapper,skirt, shirt e.t.c. The commandment is; "draw your veil/covering/clothes over your bosom", which simply means, cover your chest or bosom with your outfit. The word head,hair,face or neck wasn't mentioned in the verse. You can see the emphasis is soley on covering the bosom from lustful gaze.
Towards the end of this verse, we read; "do not strike your feet to draw attention to your hidden ornaments(zeenatahuna)...". Ornaments/beauty/adornment in the context of this verse refer not to jewelries but to attractive, lust inciting body parts like bosom,thighs and butt whose shape and size can be outlined by striking the feet while walking. Certainly jewelries like ring,necklace or wristwatches' revealing have nothing to do with striking one 's feet.

Qur'an 33:59
simply further explain 24:31 without adding more rulings. It is simple, pull or lengthen your garment or outfit over yourself to cover your unclothedness and this can be achieved by even just a skirt and blouse. Just ensure they aren't skin-fit. Outer garments or cloak is whatever is worn over the undergarments(vests,pants e.t.c). Provided the outfit is not skimpy or short, the extent of lengthening it or drawing it over the body is the personal choice of any woman.

Note my friend,how your translation is full of parenthesis to further explain the verses. The Qur'an is made up of 6348 verses, no parenthesis, no footnotes. What you find in the parenthesis are the translator 's own word,not GOD 's. They could sometimes be wrong as in the above dress code verses.

Pls,let 's stop this attitude of self righteousness. Recall righteousness is the best clothing Qur'an 7:26. One must not try to appear righteous, one must try to be righteous. A righteous woman doesn't have to wear niqab,abaya or khimar to be respected. That she is not using the above garment doesn't mean she is unclad or immoral. If as a woman you insist you must don a khimar,abaya or niqab to look decent, different story, but to claim these specific dresses are scriptural commandments is to err. Even the Torah and Gospel didn't ask women to cover their head,hair,face or all over from head to toe.

i dont always wanna quote yu cos ah no too dey like to dey follow yu disagree buh wetin yu cum talk for here, na him worse pass. yu been display your misused bounty of knowledge, na ds one irritate me pass. how you go come talk say scarf, veil and all dem suppose just cover chest?...wetin go cum happen to the hair and head?...earring isnt an adornment abi. All dem leg chains or bangles no be adornment. wetin dey cum be abeg...lekshure me make ah sabi. you dey talk am you dey talk am like say na you compile quran. you dey try impose your view sef. you fit say make we kuku comot dey waka for road with mini skirt since God no talk say make we draw our veils over our legs.....

you need all your years till death to be a mujtahid, dont start ijtihad when you are still a f*** toddler!

one more thing wey ah no rememba b4 be say you too dey forward
why would you compare torah and gospel with quran. How many years will it take your brain to process the fact those books are gone!, gone and recompiled into a whole complete alQuran.
lemme analyse this stuff for you ds way,: in the beginning, man was naked. then man wore leaves. then he wore pants alone. then he wore clothes. what was he doing?...he was realising that he needes more privacy to his body and he was improving. now to be totally clad without any exposure is the height of man's dressing. Abi wetin come remain after all ds khimar, nicob talk.
HE as used here means the entire homo sapiens race...wallahi, userman enuf is enuf for you. stop misleading. i dont disagree cos ur views are different from mine buh because yur views sef no follow common sense. if a person draws a veil to cover the chest without the hair, whats the use?

chai! wetin dey pain me cum be say yu r NOT a woman to whom these verses concern...ehn? and if na because of ur wife or wife to be, no problem. Make sure she doesnt wear hijab..lobatan####

It is a woman's choice to wear the hijab or not.

However, anyone that thinks that wearing the hijab gives anyone a religious advantage is dreaming. Wearing the hijab does not make you more chaste or more decent. This is the beginning of hypocrisy.

If you read the English translations concerning female coverings in the Quran, one can not help concluding 2 things

-Islam is a religion for ARABS not the whole world
-Islam is a religion where women have less rights than men


The first point is very clear. First off, the English translations still use the Arabic words for cloaks/head coverings because they have no direct words in English. A "head covering" or "cloak" is not specific in English- a head covering could be a head tie or scarf or a helmet. A cloak is any cloth that could be used to cover the body from cold or as apart of a uniform- some cloaks are like capes or hoodies. In short, the Quran is prescribing Arabic dressing.

Furthermore, even as Nigerians, our tribal clothes are not fully covering especially the Fulani, Benin and Isa tribal attires. Probably due to the heat? Is the Quran telling us that our ancestors were deceived by Shaytan while Allah was teaching the Arab women how to dress?

This is not mentioning the fact that
-The Quran tells us that an Arab man is the example for all mankind
-Qibla- muslims should face Arab lands while praying
-Pilgrimage to Arab lands is a pillar of the faith.



As for the second point- where are the hijab/burkha for men? Why are men allowed to wear shorts an sleeveless but not advisable for women?



What even grinds my gears is that the Quran speaks of how women dress but never attends to important female issues- underage marriage with VVF, abortion and care for pregnant ladies (ante-natal care)

macof:

pls read
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

It tells that in pre-Islam Arabia, Allah was not the only God, he had sons and daughters would the Arabs worshipped.

nauthubillah...i will never follow such a link. to do what?..to read that Allah the beginning of the start was not the only God in pre arabic states?. wtf!! how does that sound to your f**** ears?. That Allah shared his rule nd reign with subordinates?..havent you ever read suratu ikhlas upon all your quranic knowledge??
come to hear this,...since ages till eternity, Allah is, HE has been and will be the one and the only supremem soverign directing the affairs of the 'alamin...the universe
Even in the bible, it says GOD created the world and GOD took a rest...why didnt it kuma say GODS created d world nd they rested. wasnt that time pre arabic time too?...or if yu think Allah is the lord of the Arabs, you are ignorantly wrong!!! Allah is an arabic word to means God, and bible even recognises only one in soooo meny verses which am sure yu know
i brought that very first example to discredit your point and also trinity

for the very last time....Allahu Ahad!

Logicbwoy: It is a woman's choice to wear the hijab or not.

no, it is Allah's command. And thus it is not choice buh obligatory

logicbwoi: However, anyone that thinks that wearing the hijab gives anyone a religious advantage is dreaming. Wearing the hijab does not make you more chaste or more decent. This is the beginning of hypocrisy.

whether you like it or not, hijab is expected to make the wearer chaste and pure. Every hijabian shud be cautioned to know she is wearing 'a flag' representing the ummah. And i know your female ascendants and descendants are not hijabians so let ds matter stop pepering you please[/quote]

logicbwoi: If you read the English translations concerning female coverings in the Quran, one can not help concluding 2 things

-Islam is a religion for ARABS not the whole world
-Islam is a religion where women have less rights than men

you lie! islam is a religion of the world. Do you wanna turn it to your bible matter where paul delivered letter to some race and dey wrote bible out of it..were you and your family given the letters b4 you start following the bible's tenets?
jesus wasnt sent to the world and you know it..He was sent to his tribe like all other prophets. some were even sent only to their families. Muhammad Was the only prophet sent to the world

logicbwoi: The first point is very clear. First off, the English translations still use the Arabic words for cloaks/head coverings because they have no direct words in English. A "head covering" or "cloak" is not specific in English- a head covering could be a head tie or scarf or a helmet. A cloak is any cloth that could be used to cover the body from cold or as apart of a uniform- some cloaks are like capes or hoodies.

if Allah wanted us to go by English meaning, he wudav revealed the book to an English man and written it in English. If you must read the English, do so buh dnt start saying because cloak is vague, hijab isnt defined..na yu no know wetin it means, we wey d matter concern, we do!

logicbwoi: Furthermore, even as Nigerians, our tribal clothes are not fully covering especially the Fulani, Benin and Isa tribal attires. Probably due to the heat? Is the Quran telling us that our ancestors were deceived by Shaytan while Allah was teaching the Arab women how to dress?

That is why its time for change. if native clothes arent covering enuf, Allah has prescribed something beta. why is that a bitter pill to swallow

logicbwoi: This is not mentioning the fact that
-The Quran tells us that an Arab man is the example for all mankind
-Qibla- muslims should face Arab lands while praying
-Pilgrimage to Arab lands is a pillar of the faith.

Arabic was chosen by Allah for reasons known to him. We dont have a problem with that. Muhammad didnt choose it for himself and he loved the arabic language himself because...its d language of the quran, because hez an arab and because its the language of the people of jannat...now eat that!!

logicbwoi: As for the second point- where are the hijab/burkha for men? Why are men allowed to wear shorts an sleeveless but not advisable for women?

you fall my hand finally. kuku say men are allowes to wear bum short to say salat. mtcheew. Men's bodies was not described as awra(n.ake.dness) in the quran. And even sef a man must be covered from navel to his knee. That wont attract any undue attention as wud a woman dressed so.

logicbwoi: What even grinds my gears is that the Quran speaks of how women dress but never attends to important female issues- underage marriage with VVF, abortion and care for pregnant ladies (ante-natal care)

you are not even learned one bit. i thot you also knew a bit of islam before coming on here to attack. Is there any matter islam doesnt address?. no sir!! there is none mashaaAllah. As such islam outrightly forbids abortion. i shud quote the verses buh av typed enuf...dem al baqir go come give you later. talking of ante natal..mtcheew...islam suppose say pls mr illogicbwoi, if yu eva have a preggy wife, take her to clinic oooo...haha. humans sha. To burst your bubbles, islam did provide for care. its even sed that a woman in labour shud chant...thumma sebiila yassarahu...what did christianity give you to chant?..the blood of jesus?
lastly, underage marriage isnt the cause of vvf..its underage sexual commitment..And islam didnt preach underage sex. Go online and read the best fertile years of a woman, yu'd discover dat it is in her teens

ha! usermane sef better pass all this kyn tin. atleast he knows wat he argues on and wth verses sef..yu jus dey talk blindly...things dah r very obvious

usermane: Salaam.
Good day ayeen02. You give the impression that you either didn't read my thread 's op or you just glanced it for 6.5 mins. Please if am right, go back to it and study it vigorously. The quoted verses are no figment of my imagination. They are verses of the Statute Book.

Back to hijab issue.
Qur'an 24:31
"Khimar" in the verse has been generally distorted to mean headscarf. According to typical arabic or Qur'an, a "khimar" is a cover or shield of any material. A "khimar" could be a scarf,veil,headtie,jacket,carpet,curtain,wrapper,skirt, shirt e.t.c. The commandment is; "draw your veil/covering/clothes over your bosom", which simply means, cover your chest or bosom with your outfit. The word head,hair,face or neck wasn't mentioned in the verse. You can see the emphasis is soley on covering the bosom from lustful gaze.
Towards the end of this verse, we read; "do not strike your feet to draw attention to your hidden ornaments(zeenatahuna)...". Ornaments/beauty/adornment in the context of this verse refer not to jewelries but to attractive, lust inciting body parts like bosom,thighs and butt whose shape and size can be outlined by striking the feet while walking. Certainly jewelries like ring,necklace or wristwatches' revealing have nothing to do with striking one 's feet.

Qur'an 33:59
simply further explain 24:31 without adding more rulings. It is simple, pull or lengthen your garment or outfit over yourself to cover your unclothedness and this can be achieved by even just a skirt and blouse. Just ensure they aren't skin-fit. Outer garments or cloak is whatever is worn over the undergarments(vests,pants e.t.c). Provided the outfit is not skimpy or short, the extent of lengthening it or drawing it over the body is the personal choice of any woman.

Note my friend,how your translation is full of parenthesis to further explain the verses. The Qur'an is made up of 6348 verses, no parenthesis, no footnotes. What you find in the parenthesis are the translator 's own word,not GOD 's. They could sometimes be wrong as in the above dress code verses.

Pls,let 's stop this attitude of self righteousness. Recall righteousness is the best clothing Qur'an 7:26. One must not try to appear righteous, one must try to be righteous. A righteous woman doesn't have to wear niqab,abaya or khimar to be respected. That she is not using the above garment doesn't mean she is unclad or immoral. If as a woman you insist you must don a khimar,abaya or niqab to look decent, different story, but to claim these specific dresses are scriptural commandments is to err. Even the Torah and Gospel didn't ask women to cover their head,hair,face or all over from head to toe.

I can now see ur level of ignorance and I will not quote you again because of ur ignorance and again the topic is not meant for ignorant people but for those who are ready to follow the commandment of Allah.

SALAM

@usermane, let me ask you when the verse was revealed, what did the wives of the prophet and sahaba's did, how did they understood it and covered? Did they cover their heads and hair or not.

You do not understand Arabic, and read the Qur'an in English which is not fully adequate to understanding the Qur'an, I do not know what makes you think you can read the Qur'an in English or Arabic and become an authority on it because you said the translators are wrong in the translation of the dress code verses, how did you come to this conclusion, please I would like to know where you studied, who you studied under? To give us your translations

Please be very careful when you say what is allowed and what is not, don't forget we will be called to account for our actions. I know you have a problem of being called a Muslim, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and address you as one, until proven otherwise.

Sissie: @usermane, let me ask you when the verse was revealed, what did the wives of the prophet and sahaba's did, how did they understood it and covered? Did they cover their heads and hair or not.

You do not understand Arabic, and read the Qur'an in English which is not fully adequate to understanding the Qur'an, I do not know what makes you think you can read the Qur'an in English or Arabic and become an authority on it because you said the translators are wrong in the translation of the dress code verses, how did you come to this conclusion, please I would like to know where you studied, who you studied under? To give us your translations

Please be very careful when you say what is allowed and what is not, don't forget we will be called to account for our actions. I know you have a problem of being called a Muslim, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and address you as one, until proven otherwise.

mashaaAllah

babylolaroy:
no, it is Allah's command. And thus it is not choice buh obligatory


whether you like it or not, hijab is expected to make the wearer chaste and pure. Every hijabian shud be cautioned to know she is wearing 'a flag' representing the ummah. And i know your female ascendants and descendants are not hijabians so let ds matter stop pepering you please

If you read the English translations concerning female coverings in the Quran, one can not help concluding 2 things

-Islam is a religion for ARABS not the whole world
-Islam is a religion where women have less rights than men
you lie! islam is a religion of the world. Do you wanna turn it to your bible matter where paul delivered letter to some race and dey wrote bible out of it..were you and your family given the letters b4 you start following the bible's tenets?
jesus wasnt sent to the world and you know it..He was sent to his tribe like all other prophets. some were even sent only to their families. Muhammad Was the only prophet sent to the world

The first point is very clear. First off, the English translations still use the Arabic words for cloaks/head coverings because they have no direct words in English. A "head covering" or "cloak" is not specific in English- a head covering could be a head tie or scarf or a helmet. A cloak is any cloth that could be used to cover the body from cold or as apart of a uniform- some cloaks are like capes or hoodies.
if Allah wanted us to go by English meaning, he wudav revealed the book to an English man and written it in English. If you must read the English, do so buh dnt start saying because cloak is vague, hijab isnt defined..na yu no know wetin it means, we wey d matter concern, we do!

Furthermore, even as Nigerians, our tribal clothes are not fully covering especially the Fulani, Benin and Isa tribal attires. Probably due to the heat? Is the Quran telling us that our ancestors were deceived by Shaytan while Allah was teaching the Arab women how to dress?
That is why its time for change. if native clothes arent covering enuf, Allah has prescribed something beta. why is that a bitter pill to swallow

This is not mentioning the fact that
-The Quran tells us that an Arab man is the example for all mankind
-Qibla- muslims should face Arab lands while praying
-Pilgrimage to Arab lands is a pillar of the faith.
Arabic was chosen by Allah for reasons known to him. We dont have a problem with that. Muhammad didnt choose it for himself and he loved the arabic language himself because...its d language of the quran, because hez an arab and because its the language of the people of jannat...now eat that!!
As for the second point- where are the hijab/burkha for men? Why are men allowed to wear shorts an sleeveless but not advisable for women?
you fall my hand finally. kuku say men are allowes to wear bum short to say salat. mtcheew. Men's bodies was not described as awra(n.ake.dness) in the quran. And even sef a man must be covered from navel to his knee. That wont attract any undue attention as wud a woman dressed so.
What even grinds my gears is that the Quran speaks of how women dress but never attends to important female issues- underage marriage with VVF, abortion and care for pregnant ladies (ante-natal care)
you are not even learned one bit. i thot you also knew a bit of islam before coming on here to attack. Is there any matter islam doesnt address?. no sir!! there is none mashaaAllah. As such islam outrightly forbids abortion. i shud quote the verses buh av typed enuf...dem al baqir go come give you later. talking of ante natal..mtcheew...islam suppose say pls mr illogicbwoi, if yu eva have a preggy wife, take her to clinic oooo...haha. humans sha. To burst your bubbles, islam did provide for care. its even sed that a woman in labour shud chant...thumma sebiila yassarahu...what did christianity give you to chant?..the blood of jesus?
lastly, underage marriage isnt the cause of vvf..its underage sexual commitment..And islam didnt preach underage sex. Go online and read the best fertile years of a woman, yu'd discover dat it is in her teens

ha! usermane sef better pass all this kyn tin. atleast he knows wat he argues on and wth verses sef..yu jus dey talk blindly...things dah r very obvious

1) I aint a christian...atheist here. I dont believe in both bible and quran

2) The quran is silent on abortion. Even ur scholars agree with me.

3) Men are allowed to wear shorts. I nver said bum shorts. Why are men allowed but women not?


4) VVF and underage sex go together. The quran puts maturity of a woman at puberty.....sigh.....i pity 11, 12 and 13 year old girls.


5) All in all, you havent really argued against the arab bias in islam. Think about it when u face mecca

Logicbwoy:


1) I aint a christian...atheist here. I dont believe in both bible and quran

2) The quran is silent on abortion. Even ur scholars agree with me.

3) Men are allowed to wear shorts. I nver said bum shorts. Why are men allowed but women not?


4) VVF and underage sex go together. The quran puts maturity of a woman at puberty.....sigh.....i pity 11, 12 and 13 year old girls.


5) All in all, you havent really argued against the arab bias in islam. Think about it when u face mecca

atheist: so na wetin yu be be dat. Na hin ah cum dey belabour mysef to say what yu wont ever understand. anyway i see yu need someone to go on and on with you. not me ds time around. islam, ibadah, dawah needs my precious time.

principally,the Qur'an condemns
the killing of humans (except in the
case of defense or as capital
punishment), but it does not
explicitly mention abortion. This
leads Islamic theologians to take up
different viewpoints: while the
majority of early Islamic theologians
permitted abortion up to day 40 of
pregnancy or even up to day 120,
many countries today interpret these
precepts protecting unborn children
more conservatively. Although there
is no actual approval of abortion in
the world of Islam, there is no strict,
unanimous ban on it, either. Islam
has not given any precise directions
with regard to the issue of abortion.
Buh there is what we call 'Qiyaas' i.e analogical deduction. it will be logical to view an unborn child as a human , the abortion of which is killing
The Qur'an clearly disapproves of
killing other humans: “Take not life
which Allah has made
sacred” ( 6: 151; see also 4: 29 “If a
man kills a believer intentionally, his
recompense is Hell, to abide therein
(for ever)” ( 4: 93). Allah (SWT) went
even further, making unlawful
killing of a single individual human
being equal to mass murder of the
whole of mankind: "Because of that,
We ordained for the children of Israel
that if anyone killed a person not in
retaliation for murder or for
spreading mischief on earth, it would
be as if he killed all mankind. And
who saved a life, it would be as if he
saved all mankind." (Al-Maidah,
5:32 )
Also in suratu takwir chp 81: 8-9." and when the infant buried alive shall be questioned, for what sin was she killed?
Now you dont think a religion that detest murder this much would accept abortion with both hands. do you?..its for only those that can reflect to know that it is forbidden

lastly, the issue of we facing the qibla i.e mecca for salat. Av told you b4 buh i will say it ds last time that we face mecca because Allah wishes. Even if the qiblah is not mecca, wouldnt it be somewhere?..abi.we sha go face somewhere. whether mecca or ilorin or lagos, we go face one place. would oda towns den not talk about bias?
let Allah be the judge of why kaabah in mecca is the most suutable Qiblah

Sissie: @usermane, let me ask you when the verse was revealed, what did the wives of the prophet and sahaba's did, how did they understood it and covered? Did they cover their heads and hair or not.

You do not understand Arabic, and read the Qur'an in English which is not fully adequate to understanding the Qur'an, I do not know what makes you think you can read the Qur'an in English or Arabic and become an authority on it because you said the translators are wrong in the translation of the dress code verses, how did you come to this conclusion, please I would like to know where you studied, who you studied under? To give us your translations

Please be very careful when you say what is allowed and what is not, don't forget we will be called to account for our actions. I know you have a problem of being called a Muslim, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and address you as one, until proven otherwise.

Thanks Sissie. I shouldn't be back to hijab issue but you drew me back. What people of the past did with these verses can never be ascertained. That is history, way beyond one 's grasp. Rather focus on the clear verses yourself. Look, i have mentioned everything in the previous post. The ball is in your court. I don't expect anybody to take my post without confirming it(Qur'an 17:36). If you confirm it 'true', fine. If u confirm it 'wrong' fine.
And o yes, there are translators that do not translate khimar as head scarf or zeenatahunna as jewelries. Yes, i mean scholars, versed in both arabic and english languages. This is not mere opinion of mine.

babylolaroy: principally,the Qur'an condemns
the killing of humans (except in the
case of defense or as capital
punishment), but it does not
explicitly mention abortion. This
leads Islamic theologians to take up
different viewpoints: while the
majority of early Islamic theologians
permitted abortion up to day 40 of
pregnancy or even up to day 120,
many countries today interpret these
precepts protecting unborn children
more conservatively. Although there
is no actual approval of abortion in
the world of Islam, there is no strict,
unanimous ban on it, either. Islam
has not given any precise directions
with regard to the issue of abortion.
Buh there is what we call 'Qiyaas' i.e analogical deduction. it will be logical to view an unborn child as a human , the abortion of which is killing
The Qur'an clearly disapproves of
killing other humans: “Take not life
which Allah has made
sacred” ( 6: 151; see also 4: 29 “If a
man kills a believer intentionally, his
recompense is Hell, to abide therein
(for ever)” ( 4: 93). Allah (SWT) went
even further, making unlawful
killing of a single individual human
being equal to mass murder of the
whole of mankind: "Because of that,
We ordained for the children of Israel
that if anyone killed a person not in
retaliation for murder or for
spreading mischief on earth, it would
be as if he killed all mankind. And
who saved a life, it would be as if he
saved all mankind." (Al-Maidah,
5:32 )
Also in suratu takwir chp 81: 8-9." and when the infant buried alive shall be questioned, for what sin was she killed?
Now you dont think a religion that detest murder this much would accept abortion with both hands. do you?..its for only those that can reflect to know that it is forbidden

lastly, the issue of we facing the qibla i.e mecca for salat. Av told you b4 buh i will say it ds last time that we face mecca because Allah wishes. Even if the qiblah is not mecca, wouldnt it be somewhere?..abi.we sha go face somewhere. whether mecca or ilorin or lagos, we go face one place. would oda towns den not talk about bias?
let Allah be the judge of why kaabah in mecca is the most suutable Qiblah

To add to what you have written:
Qur'an 17 vs 31: Do not kill your children for fear of poverty. It is we who provides for them and for you. Killing them is indeed a grave sin.



Logicbwoi: it is obvious now that you are here simply for argument's sake. Because i still don't know how this discussion moved from hijab to criticism of Islam itself.

babylolaroy: principally,the Qur'an condemns
the killing of humans (except in the
case of defense or as capital
punishment), but it does not
explicitly mention abortion. This
leads Islamic theologians to take up
different viewpoints: while the
majority of early Islamic theologians
permitted abortion up to day 40 of
pregnancy or even up to day 120,
many countries today interpret these
precepts protecting unborn children
more conservatively. Although there
is no actual approval of abortion in
the world of Islam, there is no strict,
unanimous ban on it, either. Islam
has not given any precise directions
with regard to the issue of abortion.
Buh there is what we call 'Qiyaas' i.e analogical deduction. it will be logical to view an unborn child as a human , the abortion of which is killing
The Qur'an clearly disapproves of
killing other humans: “Take not life
which Allah has made
sacred” ( 6: 151; see also 4: 29 “If a
man kills a believer intentionally, his
recompense is Hell, to abide therein
(for ever)” ( 4: 93). Allah (SWT) went
even further, making unlawful
killing of a single individual human
being equal to mass murder of the
whole of mankind: "Because of that,
We ordained for the children of Israel
that if anyone killed a person not in
retaliation for murder or for
spreading mischief on earth, it would
be as if he killed all mankind. And
who saved a life, it would be as if he
saved all mankind." (Al-Maidah,
5:32 )
Also in suratu takwir chp 81: 8-9." and when the infant buried alive shall be questioned, for what sin was she killed?
Now you dont think a religion that detest murder this much would accept abortion with both hands. do you?..its for only those that can reflect to know that it is forbidden

lastly, the issue of we facing the qibla i.e mecca for salat. Av told you b4 buh i will say it ds last time that we face mecca because Allah wishes. Even if the qiblah is not mecca, wouldnt it be somewhere?..abi.we sha go face somewhere. whether mecca or ilorin or lagos, we go face one place. would oda towns den not talk about bias?
let Allah be the judge of why kaabah in mecca is the most suutable Qiblah

Allah doesnt live in mecca. Other religions dont face a particular place to pray. What happened to just praying?


Anyhoo, thannks for conceeding that I was right on the Quran being silent on abortion

ameenahz:

To add to what you have written:
Qur'an 17 vs 31: Do not kill your children for fear of poverty. It is we who provides for them and for you. Killing them is indeed a grave sin.



Logicbwoi: it is obvious now that you are here simply for argument's sake. Because i still don't know how this discussion moved from hijab to criticism of Islam itself.

Lol.....someone is pained from hearing the truth. I wasnt talkingf to you and u promised to avoid all thiss but u are back. If you followed the discussion, i talkesd about the hijab and relates it to other criticisms of islam. It is not my fault that someone then took on the other criticisms.

My overall point was that hijab is a choice and not compulsory. Men too ahould have their hijab if it is compulsory.



As for the abortion thing, people dont abort for money issues only. Rich people abort too. That verse is notfor abortion but rather, it is for infanticide.


Pls respect yourself before u accuse me of anything again. Thanks

Logicbwoy:


Lol.....someone is pained from hearing the truth. I wasnt talkingf to you and u promised to avoid all thiss but u are back. If you followed the discussion, i talkesd about the hijab and relates it to other criticisms of islam. It is not my fault that someone then took on the other criticisms.

My overall point was that hijab is a choice and not compulsory. Men too ahould have their hijab if it is compulsory.



As for the abortion thing, people dont abort for money issues only. Rich people abort too. That verse is notfor abortion but rather, it is for infanticide.


Pls respect yourself before u accuse me of anything again. Thanks

Oh, i touched a nerve? Sorry o.