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Defend Catholic Teachings Here - Religion (21) - Nairaland

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Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by adsonstone: 3:55pm On Nov 28, 2013
italo:

That's the logical conclusion using your approach.

They were both explicitly stated in verse 4.

I believe that passage does not forbid what you assumed I implied (taking photographs).

....and you believe it does not forbid 'making graven' images.


Deuteronomy 4:23 forbids graven images but does not forbid 'photographs'.

Can we agree on that?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Syncan(m): 4:37pm On Nov 28, 2013
adsonstone:

I believe that passage does not forbid what you assumed I implied (taking photographs).

....and you believe it does not forbid 'making graven' images.


Deuteronomy 4:23 forbids graven images but does not forbid 'photographs'.

Can we agree on that?


Adsonstone, we've made our position clear, God did not abhor making Images, for He himself ordered that Images be made. He never said they should replace Him as God and worship them. We do not replace Him with the Images, we do not worship them.

Stop going round and round, remember I called for honesty. Move on to the next allegation.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Zikkyy(m): 5:11pm On Nov 28, 2013
truthislight:

"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part." (1 Corinthians 13:9).

"For we all stumble many times. If any man does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." (James 3:2).

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10).

Not even the pope, if he says he is righteouse, christ ransom sacrifice is not for him.

bible verse cannot interpret itself. what you put up there is subject to the reader's interpretation. I ask that you prove (using the bible) that zikkyy is fallible on matters that has to do with the interpretation of the bible, and you are throwing up bible verse with supporting message. so where is the proof that am fallible?

truthislight:
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part." (1 Corinthians 13:9).

This is talking about knowledge of God. no relationship with zikkyy's fallibility angry

truthislight:
"For we all stumble many times. If any man does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." (James 3:2).

very far from the discussion. This one here has more to do with taming the tongue.

truthislight:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10).

So? if it is written that there is none rifhteous nkor? Its not nothing to do with zikkyy's fallibility.

Abeg answer my question jor angry
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Zikkyy(m): 5:31pm On Nov 28, 2013
Enigma:
I can't remember; maybe it is better you remind us all. smiley

Na wa o sad

truthislight:

From your post so far, you belief in papal infallibility.

If you feel i am wrong, restate your stand here let all see.

This is your (very faulty) interpretation. anyone reading with an open mind will not read me supporting papal infallibility anywhere on this thread. you believe what you want to believe cos you already made up ya mind. a reflection of what you been taught by your spiritual ogas at the top (at JW HQ).

@enigma & truthislight, if you want my position on papal infallibility, we've done this before. No need repeating myself.

https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/7
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Nobody: 5:47pm On Nov 28, 2013
adsonstone:

More like pope Francis.
Yeah more like pope francis who is only HUMAN and also a lunatic on the streets.Lol.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Ukutsgp(m): 6:15pm On Nov 28, 2013
Is there any difference between the catholic and a shrine?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Enigma(m): 6:17pm On Nov 28, 2013
Zikkyy:

Na wa o sad
......

@enigma & truthislight, if you want my position on papal infallibility, we've done this before. No need repeating myself.

https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/7

Don't take it too seriously bro, I was half teasing. grin

smiley
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by woky: 6:22pm On Nov 28, 2013
Ukuts gp: Is there any difference between the catholic and a shrine?
meaning??
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Zikkyy(m): 6:58pm On Nov 28, 2013
shdemidemi:
1) your dream is unique to you, it is not a standard hence it can't be substituted for the TRUTH

2) the devil can also give you dreams that become reality

3) Muslims and Hindus n other religions have these experiences too.

truthislight:
the witch of Edor that king Saul of Israel consulted, her prophesy also came to pass, read it again.

Lol! so when i said God communicate with me via my dreams, this was what you guys could think of? grin and i was thinking of Joseph and Jacob. Na wa for una sha grin
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Zikkyy(m): 7:13pm On Nov 28, 2013
truthislight:
Your RCC is far worse, you dont have scriptures to show for most of what you do and say at all.

which one be my RCC? if you shine ya eye/ear very well, maybe you will be able to understand what italo been saying grin

truthislight:
I have been asking ye all for just one here, to show scriptural evidence for your doctrine of "papal infallibility", but no scritural evidence for such a claim.

This is not a courtroom. you dey ask for evidence too much abeg angry
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Ukutsgp(m): 7:28pm On Nov 28, 2013
woky: meaning??
it is a false church. I dnt hv time for this thread nw since ur brothers are talking trash in my thread over there. I hv to dig it out with them.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Zikkyy(m): 7:32pm On Nov 28, 2013
Enigma:

Don't take it too seriously bro, I was half teasing. grin

smiley

no wahala smiley
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by woky: 7:55pm On Nov 28, 2013
Ukuts gp: it is a false church. I dnt hv time for this thread nw since ur brothers are talking trash in my thread over there. I hv to dig it out with them.
who told its a false church?? Look, let me tell you somtin

only fools have the habit of believing that everything written by a famous author is admirable but dats not my business because i Read only to my self and like only what suit my test

catholic is the best place for me to worship my God likewise ur church too, the best place 4 u..

Leave me and my brothers lets have our peace !
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Nobody: 8:47pm On Nov 28, 2013
italo: Someone says all the scripture writers were fallible, yet he keeps asking us to defend Catholic doctrine with the fallible scriptures.

The way anti-Catholics reason!

all have sinned. fallible is an english word which is not limited to your definition.

fallible people can utter infallible statements thru inspiration which is consistent with the rest of God's inspired utterences. fallible people without inspiration can also make conclusions that are true and consistent with the scriptures. the 'Beurians' doesnt have to be infallible to confirm what is true and false. Prove is the word bro.

If one claims to be inspired, I can say he is or he is not wrong if his teachings are not consistent with the rest of the scriptures(inspired words) like the 'beurians'.

again, one's being fallible does not mean that he is perforce wrong. I ve stated this before. If you think you are correct, good. Prove it. Prove is the word.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by adsonstone: 9:08pm On Nov 28, 2013
Syncan:


Adsonstone, we've made our position clear, God did not abhor making Images, for He himself ordered that Images be made. He never said they should replace Him as God and worship them. We do not replace Him with the Images, we do not worship them.

Stop going round and round, remember I called for honesty. Move on to the next allegation.

How honest can one be other than stating the truth?

God clearly forbid 'making graven images'....leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:16, 23 and 25 state that.

If the bold is the reason God supports making graven images, then killing esp killing 'God's enemies' is also right and supported by God.

Or should we re-examine the passages I stated above....

....and before that, I should ask you and Italo this.

Is it wrong not to use images in worship?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Nobody: 9:09pm On Nov 28, 2013
adsonstone:

you're contradicting God.

Thats directly contrary to God's Law that says Graven Images are forbidden.

Deuteronomy 4:23
"Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which He made with ynu, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of anything which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.



That is God for you.

Other examples.

Under the old covenant, God commanded that israelites (men) should not marry whores. (leviticus 21:7).....but here is God in Hosea 1:2....commanding Prophet Hosea to go and take a LovePeddler as a wife.

Has God changed?
No, His commandment still remains...and that does not justify 'other' israelites to marry whores....they would be seen as disobedient.

Another is seen in the case of 'making graven images'
God commanded that Graven Images should not be made....(leviticus 26:1, Deut 4:16)...and I guess we both know God's commandment about the bronze serpent and the Ark of covenant.

Even if some kings made images and God did not speak against it (as far as the bible records), It doesnt still justify christians to make graven images.

The 'graven image' concept is very similar to the murder (killing) concept.

God says in His law
'thou shall not kill'
(exodus 20)
yet He orders Saul to utterly kill all the amalekites ('enemies of God') (1 samuel 15)....Infact, God punished Saul for not 'killing' the king of Amalek....

Israelites killed on a number of occasions 'without God's command'

even Moses killed 'the Egyptian' without God's command yet He wasnt punished (as far as the bible records).

....and does that justify killing 'enemies of God' as a right/inspired act for everyone?

I guess no.


I think I ve toed this line of argument before. God sets standards on aid to use, it is not left for us to invent without His directives. this is dangerous.

I ve also stated that even of they persist that the ark which had an image was used, then let them use the ark and ark alone, not invent another image for themselves. (of course they will also follow the law on how to use it).

however, the decision is still theirs to make, you can only talk, not force them. we will all carry our own load.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by italo: 10:12pm On Nov 28, 2013
None of the two passages forbids making images or taking pictures, if we are to consider the intended meaning.

But, since you have decided to use a literal interpretation here, you must be ready to use it for the whole of the Bible.

...or at least the whole of Ex 20:4.

Choose which meaning you want to ascribe to verse 4.

Intended meaning or literal meaning.

Already, i'm wondering if you pluck your eyes out if they cause you to sin.
adsonstone:

I believe that passage does not forbid what you assumed I implied (taking photographs).

....and you believe it does not forbid 'making graven' images.


Deuteronomy 4:23 forbids graven images but does not forbid 'photographs'.

Can we agree on that?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by italo: 10:15pm On Nov 28, 2013
Depends on what you're using the images for. If you're using them as we do, it's even a holy thing.

adsonstone:

How honest can one be other than stating the truth?

God clearly forbid 'making graven images'....leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:16, 23 and 25 state that.

If the bold is the reason God supports making graven images, then killing esp killing 'God's enemies' is also right and supported by God.

Or should we re-examine the passages I stated above....

....and before that, I should ask you and Italo this.

Is it wrong not to use images in worship?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by italo: 10:25pm On Nov 28, 2013
At least Pope Francis knows his stand. He doesn't say I'm fallible, then act infallible...or imply that anyone under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is infallible, only to question others infallibility as if his own Holy Spirit is superior to others'.

adsonstone:

More like pope Francis.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by adsonstone: 11:44pm On Nov 28, 2013
italo: Depends on what you're using the images for. If you're using them as we do, it's even a holy thing.


you did not answer the question. Perhaps, you read it in a haste.

Well, here is it again:
Is it wrong not to use images in worship?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by adsonstone: 11:48pm On Nov 28, 2013
italo: None of the two passages forbids making images or taking pictures, if we are to consider the intended meaning.

But, since you have decided to use a literal interpretation here, you must be ready to use it for the whole of the Bible.

...or at least the whole of Ex 20:4.

Choose which meaning you want to ascribe to verse 4.

Intended meaning or literal meaning.

Already, i'm wondering if you pluck your eyes out if they cause you to sin.

the intended meaning of the passages says 'dont make images to become idols/gods'....is that right?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by italo: 12:31am On Nov 29, 2013
Oh! I sure read in a haste.

It is certainly not wrong...and The Catholic Church doesn't say that it is.

You see, these are some of the misconceptions and deliberate distortions of Catholic teaching that exist.

There are those who say that Catholics never pray to God directly...without going through Mary.

The fact that we see something as beneficial in our relationship with God doesnt mean we dont relate to God without it.

o

adsonstone:

you did not answer the question. Perhaps, you read it in a haste.

Well, here is it again:
Is it wrong not to use images in worship?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by italo: 12:33am On Nov 29, 2013
Not even images alone.

"Have no gods besides me. Whether they be images or not."

adsonstone:

the intended meaning of the passages says 'dont make images to become idols/gods'....is that right?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by POPEII: 1:33am On Nov 29, 2013
POPE II: PROUDLY CATHOLIC
PROUDLY CATHOLIC
PROUDLY CATHOLIC
PROUDLY CATHOLIC



LOVE YOU MARY
LOVE YOU MOTHER OF GOD
LOVE YOU QUEEN OF HEAVEN


CATHOLIC WE ARE ,CATHOLIC TILL WE DIE .

VIVA EL POPE
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Syncan(m): 6:37am On Nov 29, 2013
italo: Not even images alone.

"Have no gods besides me. Whether they be images or not."


Yes, Yes, even humans, money...or books.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by shdemidemi(m): 6:43am On Nov 29, 2013
adsonstone:

the intended meaning of the passages says 'dont make images to become idols/gods'....is that right?

Allow these people, they were created to believe a lie. They have to fulfil their ministry just as Judas fulfilled his.
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Syncan(m): 6:54am On Nov 29, 2013
adsonstone:

How honest can one be other than stating the truth?

God clearly forbid 'making graven images'....leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:16, 23 and 25 state that.

If the bold is the reason God supports making graven images, then killing esp killing 'God's enemies' is also right and supported by God.

Or should we re-examine the passages I stated above....

....and before that, I should ask you and Italo this.

Is it wrong not to use images in worship?


There is no point beating about the bush, we showed you from scripture that God does not abhor Images, we've showed you from history that Images existed in the early christian days, we've shown you that the christian council of 787AD (by the way, where was your church then, or was it part of the council) approved its use. Why not read about that council and what inspired their decision, don't just come up a thousand years after and say they were not good Christians, nor have the knowledge of the word.

As Italo has said, there is nothing wrong if you do not use Images, however, if you condemn its use, you are going against the belief of the church.

1 Like

Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by Syncan(m): 7:04am On Nov 29, 2013
shdemidemi:

Allow these people, they were created to believe a lie. They have to fulfil their ministry just as Judas fulfilled his.

hahahaha, you again, Italo made my day yesterday with that music, It kept coming to my mind till I slept. Each time it makes me smile.


* everything na double double...na double double*

shdemi- gospel na double double... na double double ooo
God na double double ...na double double ooo

Syncan - head na double double...na double double ooo grin grin

someone sing along with me, absurdity does not end. Lets go, na double double o grin
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by woky: 7:04am On Nov 29, 2013
adsonstone:

the intended meaning of the passages says 'dont make images to become idols/gods'....is that right?
brother mi

God only forbids the worship of images as god, but doesn't ban the making of images
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by woky: 7:11am On Nov 29, 2013
grin
Syncan:

hahahaha, you again, Italo made my day yesterday with that music, It kept coming to my mind till I slept. Each time it makes me smile.


* everything na double double...na double double*

shdemi- gospel na double double... na double double ooo
God na double double ...na double double ooo

Syncan - head na double double...na double double ooo grin grin

someone sing along with me, absurdity does not end. Lets go, na double double o grin

shebi i don tell u make u try your talen, i swear Basketmoth nO go see your back for comedy gringrin grin
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by shdemidemi(m): 7:12am On Nov 29, 2013
woky: brother mi

God only forbids the worship of images as god, but doesn't ban the making of images

What exactly is the use of images carved in your church?
Re: Defend Catholic Teachings Here by shdemidemi(m): 7:21am On Nov 29, 2013
Syncan:

hahahaha, you again, Italo made my day yesterday with that music, It kept coming to my mind till I slept. Each time it makes me smile.


* everything na double double...na double double*

shdemi- gospel na double double... na double double ooo
God na double double ...na double double ooo

Syncan - head na double double...na double double ooo grin grin

someone sing along with me, absurdity does not end. Lets go, na double double o grin


If I was bowing before an image and accept anything oga pope says from Rome, i'm sure you wouldn't have been so frivolous. The thread says defend what you do. if you wanna have a go in comedy like our friend suggested, try the A.Y show mate. angry For now, DEFEND YOUR CATHOLIC TEACHINGS without prevarication if you can.

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