There is a notion that God created man in his own image. Thereafter, it seems, man created god in his own image, and then worships the creator-himself.

Ever since man created god, he has been desperately searching for ways and means of justifying his creation. Ever since he began to articulate thoughts , man has been creating, amending and evolving a central character to explain all that he did not know about himself and the universe about him.
And naturally, since one cannot create a god from nothing, man himself has been the perfect template from which to create a perfect god.
And by "perfect" I mean a god that satisfies all his ideals and desires.

According to all believers of god, whether christian, Islamic , Judaic, deist, etc, god is flawless.
In fact, God has no choice than to be perfect.

That very much explains why Christians and Muslims go to any length, pull rabbits from any hat, invent new words or give new meanings to old words just to defend the tangled web of contradictions that we call God .
And as we have all seen very well, when they are boxed in by their own contradiction, they press the big Red button and start waxing spiritual.

We have all heard this rusty old phrase " God is spirit and can only be understood spiritually when you suspend your carnal mind and allow him to enter" .
I hear you welle welle!

In terms of contradiction, Sin is probably the most contradictory concept in religion, and perhaps one of the most powerful against the near-extinct fables of creationism.
Lets take a microscopic look at some of these contradictions.

1. A perfect God designs and creates a perfect orderly universe, but his Angels(his creations) disobey and rebel against him.
That story is strange and very fishy. Even if true, it implies that God's problems started well before the creation of man.

2. God creates man in his own Image, gives freewill to the newly created creature(without learning from past mistake), and is pleased with his work. But then, the man, acting out of instinctual self-interest, disobeys God(Deja Vu?), and then, all hell is let loose with generational curses, eternal hell fire , and the monstrosity of religions for the purpose of appeasing a really really pissed-off Designer-god of the universe.

The question arises as to why a brilliant designer and creator would take it so personal and care so much and vex so much about the particular choices made by a creature whom he had given a freewill to make choices?
If human are in the habit of making certain types of choices, it could only mean that we are hardwired to, and are therefore inclined to make such choices.

Humans are just like other animals that are instinctively hardwired for survival by any means necessary. Survival in this sense also encompasses any and all things that give us safety, future security as well as pleasure.

I have seen many apologists on NL argue that man was made perfect, but sin corrupted him,blah blah.

That does not make any sense, because this would imply that disobedience to god's will(whatever it was) instantly modified the genetic makeup of humans, and then pre-disposed them to further corruption down the road.
From a common sense point of view, this would not make any sense whatsoever.

This logic would only make sense if those who assert it are willing to consider that, perhaps, genetic modification of original human species could and would have been the only original sin.
In this line of thinking, man is not the sinner , but the end product of sin.
Again, following this line of thought, the real question is : who sinned against God by modifying the original human species to something that god did not have in mind?
Any guesses?
Anyway, that opens up a pandora's box of new questions and facts that religious apologist would find even harder to contemplate, let alone digest.

Looking at bible, we see that God has been battling with sin ever since he created the universe.
From rebellious Angels, to disobedient Adam, he has done everything, he has threatened , begged and cajoled, he has exterminated with fire, exterminated with flood, with armies, with famine, plagues, etc, but, alas,.. sin continues unabated in the world.

We are told that just about 2000yrs ago, god, yes god, the creator of the universe, sent his son(which just happens to be himself) to die for the sins of the world,..and I am assuming, so that he can forgive all of humanity of sin( our genetic deficiency?).

So, did the Coming of Jesus reset our DNA to the original sinless default mode?
As I write this, there is no evidence that the coming and dying of Jesus did improve humanity in any noticeable way.
Indeed, one can make the argument that the supposed event actually pushed the world in a trajectory of ever-increasing conflicts and newer mutations of sin.

Is there something about sin that perhaps , God, the designer and creator does not understand?
I will let the reader figure that out .

But I will say that there is so much that the original designers and creators of God did not understand: Human nature.
Man is an animal, a slightly refined animal, but nevertheless, an animal and a product of evolution.

All our instincts and behaviors have been genetically honed from the beginnings of the first proto-life.
We have biologically, physically and socially evolved to right where we are today.

Unfortunately, the creators of the perfect God are always in too much of haste, and much too belligerant to take human Evolution into consideration before Molding God in man's image.

You remind me of Robert G. Ingersoll. A lot. Love the way you express your thoughts. Good one as always.







unfortunately, as usual, there's nothing to be added to it.

aManFromMars: You remind me of Robert G. Ingersoll. A lot. Love the way you express your thoughts. Good one as always.







unfortunately, as usual, there's nothing to be added to it.

Thanks.

It's a pity I can't give more than one like.

Nice piece but u made it seem like their is only one creation theory(d christian's)

Specifically for christiann God

Interesting read. Your moniker should be deep thoughts. I enjoy reading most of your self written mini articles discussing about your own belief system of the entity 'God' unlike other brothers who just copy and paste.

lord plaetton speaks-hear him...u wan dethrone logicboy abi...btw what does ur moniker mean?...i no see am for dictionary

Plaetton, do you mind if I indulge?

Reyginus: Plaetton, do you mind if I indulge?

Ah ah?
Do you need to ask?
Pls do.

Ranchhoddas: lord plaetton speaks-hear him...u wan dethrone logicboy abi...btw what does ur moniker mean?...i no see am for dictionary

Look it up in an Anglo-Saxon dictionary.

@ Plaetton...clever btw, and apt, by the way you use words to strike a heavy blow. I'm not sold on them, but I gotta give you props.

Ranchhoddas: lord plaetton speaks-hear him...u wan dethrone logicboy abi...btw what does ur moniker mean?...i no see am for dictionary

Lol.
Look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemistus_Pletho

When I first came across this historical character, a radical philosopher who stood up to challenge an established order, I felt a strangely strong affinity towards him.
During one important council, he changed his name to Plethon , held court for a thrilled audience for several days repudiating the Judeo-Christian concepts of divinity.
Much of his works paved the way for the revival of Neo-platonism ,and which , ultimately sowed the seeds of what later became known as the Renaissance era.

It was almost as if I was him and he was me, and I had been there. A deja vu of sorts.
Everything about his resume, his character, his message and his delivery speaks to me, and of me.

That is why I adopted his Name as my NL moniker, to, in his same fashion, continue to repudiate the Judeo-Christian concepts of divinity.

plaetton:

Ah ah?
Do you need to ask?
Pls do.

Yes. I have my reasons.

plaetton:
In terms of contradiction, Sin is probably the most contradictory concept in religion, and perhaps one of the most powerful against the near-extinct fables of creationism.
Lets take a microscopic look at some of these contradictions.

I chose to leave other matters you stated to look with you microscopically, even macroscopically if you like, into these so-called contradictions. These I think summarizes the thread for me. With my electronic microscope, I can assert the opposite in this case.

Sin is primarily an evidence of a being not under control. To be under control is to be without control. To be without control is to be without a freewill. You cannot take responsibility for whatever thing you didn't will.

plaetton:
1. A perfect God designs and creates a perfect orderly universe, but his Angels(his creations) disobey and rebel against him.
That story is strange and very fishy. Even if true, it implies that God's problems started well before the creation of man.

The problem in its entirety emanates from freewill.
For God to prevent that from happening He will have to create angels without freewill. And our angels would be without control. This is more like God creating robots to serve him. I don't think God works that way. Or are you going to argue against freewill?

plaetton:


2. God creates man in his own Image, gives freewill to the newly created creature(without learning from past mistake), and is pleased with his work. But then, the man, acting out of instinctual self-interest, disobeys God(Deja Vu?), and then, all hell is let loose with generational curses, eternal hell fire , and the monstrosity of religions for the purpose of appeasing a really really pissed-off Designer-god of the universe.

I don't see anything wrong in a designer placing a red-line for his creation, nor, metting out the appriopriate penalty when the line is crossed.

Look at this way. You design a robot with a high level of Artificial Intelligence, AI, and placed it in a particular environment. Let's call the high level AI freewill.
There is also a new perfect technology which would only be installed on the robots if they behave well.
You then download into the robot a list of instructions without which it cannot function properly. And the ability to function properly is primarily is by the observance of these instructions.
Then as it learns a lot, it began to take decisions which is highly detrimental to its survival. And it knows it.
Do you think in this case, where the instructions have been broken, our robot will still function properly? Wouldn't it be wise to deny the robot the new technology and send it where other harmful robots are placed?

plaetton:
The question arises as to why a brilliant designer and creator would take it so personal and care so much and vex so much about the particular choices made by a creature whom he had given a freewill to make choices?

That's love, bro. The same way you will be angry at your child to show dissatisfaction.
If you do not go angry when your child do mischieve how does he or she knows those things which are not acceptable by you for their lower values.
It's like saying that because you are a very intelligent and wise man you should not show a sign of displeasure where folly is promoted.

plaetton:
If human are in the habit of making certain types of choices, it could only mean that we are hardwired to, and are therefore inclined to make such choices.

Ofcourse we are inclined choices but not what you mean by 'such choices'. I hope it is not the zeal to succeed you are describing as 'such choices'.

plaetton:

That does not make any sense, because this would imply that disobedience to god's will(whatever it was) instantly modified the genetic makeup of humans, and then pre-disposed them to further corruption down the road.
From a common sense point of view, this would not make any sense whatsoever.

That's a strong point. Then these men on NL are missing the point or you don't understand what they mean by man was made perfect.
I understand that to mean being made in the image and likeness of God with no knowledge of sin.
Let me stop here for now.

@ reyginus, God bless you for taking the time.

God created man perfect in the sense of non-knowledge of sin and creation in the likeness of God.

look at this mumu of reyginus. When you were seeking permission to post, I thought you have something exciting we haven't heard before to post. Instead all you came up with are the same usual fallacies: A perfect robot made in the perfect image of the perfect creator goes haywire! How can this contradiction make sense to someone with a single IQ?
Let me make it clear to you: PERFECT THINGS DO NOT MALFUNCTION!

Joshthefirst: @ reyginus, God bless you for taking the time.

God created man perfect in the sense of non-knowledge of sin and creation in the likeness of God.

God bless you too bro.

@ alfa: Introduce freewill into the mixture.

Alfa Seltzer:
Let me make it clear to you: PERFECT THINGS DO NOT MALFUNCTION!

But do you agree that a thing can be perfect in one area but lacking in another?
And where did I say the reverse of what you are saying?

Joshthefirst: @ alfa: Introduce freewill into the mixture.

Which is what plaetton was saying. Something, (call it freewill if you want) was introduced which modified the genetics of the first creation. So man is not the sinner as he said but the end product of this new factor. So why blame man?

My own question...is freewill going to be in heaven?

Alfa Seltzer:

Which is what plaetton was saying. Something, (call it freewill if you want) was introduced which modified the genetics of the first creation. So man is not the sinner as he said but the end product of this new factor. So why blame man?

I believe this something is sin, which came as a result of the freewill man was given.

Man is the product of the original sin, but I believe man is also to blame. Because while he has seen the problem, he does not accept Gods solution. Instead, he wallows more in this disease of sin and tries to live with it or explain it away.

Nothing we can do in science or say in philosophy or explore in space can deal with this basic problem sir. Man has been exposed to it, and he even enjoys this disease and wallows deeper in it. Its a basic problem that people like to ignore, so man is to blame for his sin.


So what do you suggest we do?

Joshthefirst:

So what do you suggest we do?

That you use your brain instead of regurgitating childhood indoctrination.

Alfa Seltzer:

That you use your brain instead of regurgitating childhood indoctrination.

we have used our brains, and our brains have failed us. Is this thread not about sin? What do you suggest we do? Wish sin away? Where can man go? What can man do against this formidable and endearing disease? Wish his very salvation in God into non-existence?

Please give me credible answers or say you don't have an answer instead of talking nonsense about indoctrination.


Where has your "freedom" gotten you?

If my supposed indoctrination takes care of this basic problem and offers a solution to the disease that hampers mankinds development, who are you to speak against it? To become an enemy of man progress?

Joshthefirst: we have used our brains, and our brains have failed us. Is this thread not about sin? What do you suggest we do? Wish sin away? Where can man go? What can man do against this formidable and endearing disease? Wish his very salvation in God into non-existence?

Please give me credible answers or say you don't have an answer instead of talking nonsense about indoctrination.


Where has your "freedom" gotten you?

If my supposed indoctrination takes care of this basic problem and offers a solution to the disease that hampers mankinds development, who are you to speak against it? To become an enemy of man progress?

If you want credible answers, you have to start asking credible questions. What exactly is sin? You just can't start banding about the word "sin" which have subjective meaning.

According to xtian doctrine, our very existence is already a sin. Infact, without this sin of sex, we can't even exist. Now where do you start getting a solution for this type of "problem"? If you want to end your sin, end your life. Oh, don't. That is also a sin!

Freewill means sin to Christians. Freewill is everyone's birthright and can be exercised whenever they chose to. Animals have free will just like humans. If your car has freewill it will obviously chose to run away. That is normal

Real laws cannot be broken. Any law that can be broken is man made. Example is the biblical 10 commandment. They all can be broken; therefore there are fake laws.

Laws that cannot be broken Example

1. You exist : you can never change that however you try it

2 change is constant : no one,even an imaginary god cannot change.

3 karma : what ever you give out is exactly what you will receive

4 the one is the all and all are one: we are all made up of one energy but interpreting in different ways.

These four laws can never be broken.

Alfa Seltzer:

If you want credible answers, you have to start asking credible questions. What exactly is sin? You just can't start banding about the word "sin" which have subjective meaning.

According to xtian doctrine, our very existence is already a sin. Infact, without this sin of sex, we can't even exist. Now where do you start getting a solution for this type of "problem"? If you want to end your sin, end your life. Oh, don't. That is also a sin!

I earlier gave you a description of sin: wrongdoing. And you answered by talking gibberish of indoctrination. Are you mans enemy? Why do you willfully choose to fabricate lies about what sin is. You know what sin is, I know what sin is. You and I know what wrong doing is. Do you now choose to say wrong doing does not exist and is not common to all of man?

Joshthefirst: I earlier gave you a description of sin: wrongdoing. And you answered by talking gibberish of indoctrination. Are you mans enemy? Why do you willfully choose to fabricate lies about what sin is. You know what sin is, I know what sin is. You and I know what wrong doing is. Do you now choose to say wrong doing does not exist and is not common to all of man?

If I tell my child that Yahweh does not exist, some will call that wrong doing (sin). Many people will disagree that it is wrong doing. So we do not have a clear definition of what wrong-doing is.

Kissing and caressing my grilfriend is no wrong doing. Many religious people will disagree.

Alfa Seltzer:

If I tell my child that Yahweh does not exist, some will call that wrong doing (sin). Many people will disagree that it is wrong doing. So we do not have a clear definition of what wrong-doing is.

Kissing and caressing my grilfriend is no wrong doing. Many religious people will disagree.

very logical

Joshthefirst: I earlier gave you a description of sin: wrongdoing. And you answered by talking gibberish of indoctrination. Are you mans enemy? Why do you willfully choose to fabricate lies about what sin is. You know what sin is, I know what sin is. You and I know what wrong doing is. Do you now choose to say wrong doing does not exist and is not common to all of man?

What is wrong doing? Nothing is wrong! Humans interpret actions in different ways. Some people believe it is wrong to eat animals,and i believe you do eat dead/cooked animals. So,to them you have done something wrong which is not the way you perceive it.

Man has brought so much confusion by inventing religion. Clever people stay clear of religion because it is for FOOLS.

'Free-will' is it really free without a cause?

'Sin' attributed to satan as its origin,according to d scriptures(bible) he(satan) is a spirit then where/what is the origin of the 'spirit' that posessed d said angel Lucifer to become 'satan' and rebel against God? Free-will? Without a cause?

If Archangel 'lucifer' created by God b4 man(according to d bible)as Angel could be corrupted then truly THE IFFINITE MiND OF ALL is UNKNOWABLE.

@plaetton when would you consider writing a book?