Jozzy4:

Animals are NATURALLY ( by nature) brute , open your eyes nd read the underlined .

You haven't a clue, 2 peter is not saying animals are naturally brute, the verse is comparing some persons to naturally brute animals, not all animals are brute, irrational, unreasonable

So whats the meaning of brute : you said
"
Brute comes from the Greek "alogas" which means brute, irrational, unreasonable "

From your own statement above , we see that brute is same with IRRATIONAL and UNREASONABLE . And we told that animals are naturally that way ( 2pet 2:12) *cheers

No 2 peter doesn't say that, you have no understanding of scripture

Now what is irrational .

1. Without the faculty of reasoning ; deprived of reasoning .

2. Not endowned with the faculty of reasoning ; irrational animals .

Http://www.dictionary.reference.com/browse/irrational

Yes and when a person is not irrational, he can have reason
same for animals

Dont try to cover your ignorance that have already been exposed . Animals are created to act on instinct, brute by nature ( NATURAL) - 2pet 2:12 BUT Humans are not created to act on instinct .

That render your statement void .

You just say whatever comes into your head,
read this on animal reason
http://www.humesociety.org/hs/issues/v29n1/boyle/boyle-v29n1.pdf

Na jozzy write this bibles , shey ?

New International Version
But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like [size=25]unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, [/size] born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.

New Living Translation
These false teachers are like [size=25]unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, [/size]born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed.

English Standard Version
But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction,

Berean Study Bible
These men are like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed. They blaspheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed.

Berean Literal Bible
But these, like irrational animals, having been born as creatures of instinct for capture and destruction, blaspheming in what they are ignorant of, in their destruction also will be destroyed,


New American Standard Bible
But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,

You can post all the wrong translations of that verse that you want to
"alogos" means unreasonable, your translation is wrong
also "creatures of instinct", is not in the Greek text that we get our English translated from
the translations that you quoted have added that.

2Pe 2:12 But(de) these,(houtos houtoi haute hautai) as(hos) natural(phusikos) brute(alogos) beasts,(zoon) made(gennano) to be taken(eis) (halosis) and(kai) destroyed,(phthora) speak evil(blasphemeo) of(en) the things that(hos he ho) they understand not;(agnoeo) and shall utterly perish(kataphtheiro) in(en) their own(hautou) corruption;(phthora)

Jozzy4 said spirit is just breath, but if that were so
we would have to be Holy in breath
and our breath would have to be preserved blameless
and we would have to glorify God in our breath

Jozzy4 said animals cannot reason, yet otters reasoned if they get a stone and break open shells then they could eat the yummies inside.
cattle reason if they jump the fence they can eat the green crop on the other side


Jozzy4 said a mad man cannot reason

Jozzy4 said the spirit that goes back to God is breath

Jozzy4 is wrong about most things, and he is happy to tell you about them.

What is a soul?
A soul is a man's consciousness that functions independently from his body. Example is dreams, visions, thoughts, imaginations, most importantly. People who have been decleared dead, meaning, their brains stopped functioning, yet saw and heard things both from this world and the other world. Me, for one, I dream things before they happen. Clear and detailed events before they happen.

Consciousness is independent from the brain. The brain is not a thinker, but the processor. The operating system that runs the brain is independent from it as the software in your computer is independent from the CPU. Think of consciousness as the operating system using the brain as a central processing unit to interact with this world. We don’t need a brain to think any more than we need an oxygen tank to breathe or a night goggle to see. However if we want to scuba dive we need an oxygen tank and if we want to see at night we need night goggles.

Our consciousness is completely independent from our body. However, to experience this world we have to occupy a body made of the same substance. It is like you want to play a virtual game; you need to wear a pair of goggles and a headset. The goggles and the headset immerse you in the virtual world while they cut you off from the world surrounding you. If they malfunction your virtual experience becomes blurry and defective. What happens if the computer crashes? Then you remove the goggles and the headset and suddenly your vision becomes perfect. And you find yourself at home among your loved ones.
Now coming down to whether animals have souls. First of all, find out the Purpose of humans and animals here on earth. When you know that, then you can go on the find out the need for animals to have souls.
In Genesis 9:3. The LORD said to Noah, "every moving thing that liveth shall be meat(food)for you;even as the green herbs(vegetables), have I given to you, all things. And 1Tim6:18, the Bible says "Muzzel not the mouth of the Ox while it treaded out the corn. And in another place, a question was asked, why do u think God said that? Do you think God said that becos he values the animal more or for your sakes He said that? He says 'for your own sakes certainly".
God created animal for man, for food and to bear burden.
If you come up talking abt the souls of animals, that will be unscriptural, for I don't believe animals have conciousness.

johnw74:


You haven't a clue, 2 peter is not saying animals are naturally brute, the verse is comparing some persons to naturally brute animals, not all animals are brute, irrational, unreasonable




No 2 peter doesn't say that, you have no understanding of scripture



Yes and when a person is not irrational, he can have reason
same for animals






You just say whatever comes into your head,
read this on animal reason
http://www.humesociety.org/hs/issues/v29n1/boyle/boyle-v29n1.pdf





You can post all the wrong translations of that verse that you want to
"alogos" means unreasonable, your translation is wrong
also "creatures of instinct", is not in the Greek text that we get our English translated from
the translations that you quoted have added that.

2Pe 2:12 But(de) these,(houtos houtoi haute hautai) as(hos) natural(phusikos) brute(alogos) beasts,(zoon) made(gennano) to be taken(eis) (halosis) and(kai) destroyed,(phthora) speak evil(blasphemeo) of(en) the things that(hos he ho) they understand not;(agnoeo) and shall utterly perish(kataphtheiro) in(en) their own(hautou) corruption;(phthora)

Hian!!! @ color , so you know some animals are naturally brute or naturally irrational ?
Goood , those animals that are naturally unreasonable , dont they have ruach - spirit ? Why cant they reason since they have ruach ?

Anas09:
What is a soul?
A soul is a man's consciousness that functions independently from his body. Example is dreams, visions, thoughts, imaginations, most importantly. People who have been decleared dead, meaning, their brains stopped functioning, yet saw and heard things both from this world and the other world. Me, for one, I dream things before they happen. Clear and detailed events before they happen.

Consciousness is independent from the brain. The brain is not a thinker, but the processor. The operating system that runs the brain is independent from it as the software in your computer is independent from the CPU. Think of consciousness as the operating system using the brain as a central processing unit to interact with this world. We don’t need a brain to think any more than we need an oxygen tank to breathe or a night goggle to see. However if we want to scuba dive we need an oxygen tank and if we want to see at night we need night goggles.

Our consciousness is completely independent from our body. However, to experience this world we have to occupy a body made of the same substance. It is like you want to play a virtual game; you need to wear a pair of goggles and a headset. The goggles and the headset immerse you in the virtual world while they cut you off from the world surrounding you. If they malfunction your virtual experience becomes blurry and defective. What happens if the computer crashes? Then you remove the goggles and the headset and suddenly your vision becomes perfect. And you find yourself at home among your loved ones.
Now coming down to whether animals have souls. First of all, find out the Purpose of humans and animals here on earth. When you know that, then you can go on the find out the need for animals to have souls.
In Genesis 9:3. The LORD said to Noah, "every moving thing that liveth shall be meat(food)for you;even as the green herbs(vegetables), have I given to you, all things. And 1Tim6:18, the Bible says "Muzzel not the mouth of the Ox while it treaded out the corn. And in another place, a question was asked, why do u think God said that? Do you think God said that becos he values the animal more or for your sakes He said that? He says 'for your own sakes certainly".
God created animal for man, for food and to bear burden.


If you come up talking abt the souls of animals, that will be unscriptural, for I don't believe animals have conciousness.

@ Bold .. Sister its very very scriptural . Should I show you scriptures that confims it that animals are souls ?

Brother, you didn't need to ask that. You shd ve just pasted the scriptures.

Anas09:
Brother, you didn't need to ask that. You shd ve just pasted the scriptures.

Gen 1:24 Then God said "let the earth bring forth living SOULS according to their kinds , domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds" and it was so .



Gen 1:21 And God created the great sea creatures and all Living SOULS that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds .


Rev 16:3 The second one poured out his bowl into the sea. And it became blood like that of a dead man , and every living SOULS died, yes , the things in the sea .

Jozzy4:


Hian!!! @ color , so you know some animals are naturally brute or naturally irrational ?
Goood , those animals that are naturally unreasonable , dont they have ruach - spirit ? Why cant they reason since they have ruach ?

some animals like some humans are naturally irrational, that's the way they are, you are like that
they can reason when not being irrational just like humans can
try to understand what is said if that's possible for you

Jozzy4:



Gen 1:24 Then God said "let the earth bring forth living SOULS according to their kinds , domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds" and it was so .



Gen 1:21 And God created the great sea creatures and all Living SOULS that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds .


Rev 16:3 The second one poured out his bowl into the sea. And it became blood like that of a dead man , and every living SOULS died, yes , the things in the sea .

Are you an authority on souls too
what is the difference between a soul and a living soul?

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord(kurios-Supreme God), but by the Holy Ghost.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie
cannot say Jesus is the Supreme God.
They cannot say it in John 1:1 either, changing their Bible to say Jesus is "a god".

They of course have not the Holy Spirit or the Son or the Father.

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Scriptures show that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh,
those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie
cannot say like the Holy Scriptures that God has come in the flesh
Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, have the spirit of antichrist

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie, don't believe the Bible and change what it says.

johnw74:

Some animals like some humans are naturally irrational, that's the way they are, you are like that
they can reason when not being irrational just like humans can
try to understand what is said if that's possible for you

Some animals are NATURALLY ( according to nature) irrational , thats how they are created ; why cant this kind of animals reason since they have ruach ? Ans pls .



NOTE : God did not create the nature of human beings irrational .

johnw74:


Are you an authority on souls too
what is the difference between a soul and a living soul?

Soul is soul . !!! I know you are seeing that for the first time . lol

Just like animals , humans are also called Living Soul .



" .. God went on to form the man out out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a Living Soul " - Gen 2:7

When A Soul is alive , its called a " Living Soul" Gen 2:7

But When a soul is not alive ! , it became a " Dead Soul" Numbers 6:6

johnw74:

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord(kurios-Supreme God), but by the Holy Ghost.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie
cannot say Jesus is the Supreme God.
They cannot say it in John 1:1 either, changing their Bible to say Jesus is "a god".

They of course have not the Holy Spirit or the Son or the Father.

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Scriptures show that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh,
those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie
cannot say like the Holy Scriptures that God has come in the flesh
Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, have the spirit of antichrist

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie, don't believe the Bible and change what it says.

Mr Seun and Mr. OAM4J , pls how does this post contribute to all the questions ask @ op .

What are you doing about people like this whose aim is to derail threads and deliberately attack other peoples faith ? .

Jozzy4:


Some animals are NATURALLY ( according to nature) irrational , thats how they are created ; why cant this kind of animals reason since they have ruach ? Ans pls .

I have told you that at least twice, you have been blinded through your unbelief
irrational animals like irrational humans are not that way all the time and can reason

oh boy, you complained to suen and OAM4J about derailing the OP
what has animals being irrational got to do with the OP
that makes you a hypocrite, right

NOTE : God did not create the nature of human beings irrational .

wow more deep revelation
and again not relevant to the OP

Jozzy4:


Soul is soul . !!! I know you are seeing that for the first time . lol

Soul is soul, wow that's deep, your right, who has ever seen that before

Just like animals , humans are also called Living Soul .



" .. God went on to form the man out out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a Living Soul " - Gen 2:7

When A Soul is alive , its called a " Living Soul" Gen 2:7

But When a soul is not alive ! , it became a " Dead Soul" Numbers 6:6

ha ha more deep revelation

so you don't know the diffrence between a soul, and a living soul

Jozzy4:


Mr Seun and Mr. OAM4J , pls how does this post contribute to all the questions ask @ op .

What are you doing about people like this whose aim is to derail threads and deliberately attack other peoples faith ? .

If posting Bible verses is attacking your faith, and it is
then it just shows that your faith is sectarian, which we already know

johnw74:

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord(kurios-Supreme God), but by the Holy Ghost.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie
cannot say Jesus is the Supreme God.
They cannot say it in John 1:1 either, changing their Bible to say Jesus is "a god".

They of course have not the Holy Spirit or the Son or the Father.

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Scriptures show that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh,
those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie
cannot say like the Holy Scriptures that God has come in the flesh
Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, have the spirit of antichrist

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not and do lie, don't believe the Bible and change what it says.

johnw74:


Soul is soul, wow that's deep, your right, who has ever seen that before



ha ha more deep revelation

so you don't know the diffrence between a soul, and a living soul

you are only trying to escape jozzy4's point .

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Soul = nephesh

Humans are " soul [nephesh] " Gen 2:7

Animals are "soul [nephesh]" Gen 1:24

Finally!

" and the fatal striker of the soul of a domestic animal should made compensation for it, soul for soul " Lev 24:18 .

Its staring at you in the eyes .

CANTICLES:


you are only trying to escape jozzy4's point .

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Soul = nephesh

Humans are " soul [nephesh] " Gen 2:7

Animals are "soul [nephesh]" Gen 1:24

Finally!

" and the fatal striker of the soul of a domestic animal should made compensation for it, soul for soul " Lev 24:18 .

Its staring at you in the eyes .

What point, he never made one

everyone has a dictionary and can know what soul is, you also think you have new revelation

finally what makes you think I would want to get into conversation with yet another of those
who call themselves Jehovahs Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, and are the church of satan.

and who have no understanding of what has been said, because they have been blinded
and so answer posts accordingly (babel)

Answer to the question, what is the diffrence between "soul" and "living soul"

there is no diffrence, "soul" and "living soul" in the Bible is the same thing
(a breathing creaturer)

a simpler question I couldn't think of for jw, I knew they couldn't even see it, Oh blinded ones.

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Jozzy4:


When A Soul is alive , its called a " Living Soul"

But When a soul is not alive ! , it became a " Dead Soul"

Seun:
Hello,

I'm posing these questions to spiritual folks in the house:
- What is a soul?
- How do you know that souls exist?
- Do animals - dogs, cats, worms, flies, mosquitos, lice, chimps - have souls?
- If they do, what are the implications?
- Why is it ok to butcher them?
- Will there be animals in heaven and hell?
- What does a human being have that animals don't have?

Thanks a million.

2006 question of the year.

rotbog:
Of Course they Do. My Pet Pidgeon 's got a soulmate.
Canaries have Soul. Listen to the Music they Make. Thats Soul.
Have u seen the way Dogs Share Soul Food?

Of Course all Dogs Go To Haeven. & 'm sure U've seen the movie.

Is it Fair to Kill them No. of course. It fairer when they kill Us.
What do they have that humans dont have.? They Have Horns.
And dont we all get Hot a times

Lolll. Wtf did I just read?

What wont one find here?
--------------------------------------------------------
OP, forget dogs and cats, gingers have kept us guessing - and still do. For one whose had a strange inexplicable tendency to attract them, I've had all the cause to wonder, but as yet I'm afraid I have no quantifiable conclusion to offer. Frustratingly uanswerable questions kept popping up, such as:

What is a soul?

Do gingers have souls?

If so, why is the soul unfairly denied the ginger?

If not, why do gingers have no souls?

If gingers tend to approach you, does that mean you haven't a soul as well? Or are you so full of soul that their soullessness invariably attracts them to you, like a beacon, like the protons and electrons of an atom?

Soul?

What...? How...? Why...? Who...? When...? Where...? But why though...?

I imagine dog/cat souls are even more evasive to 'soul' experimentation, and I'm assuming ginger dogs/cats are - I can only imagine - worse still. Well, according to childish research musings, anyway.

And thus began my love affair with the scientific method, and perhaps even philosophy at that point (although there're plenty other conflicting instances/stories/events on how/when this all may have come about). So all hail soulless(?) gingers(!) and the "soul" in general, lol.

P.S The comment above the line may or may not be completely negated by that which followed (though its in odd harmony with the rest of the thread).

^^^
Is that what is called trolling?

MzNelly:
Seun, I see everyone here has been confusing you with pretty different answers.
But take a minute to go through this.
You'll perfectly get understand it better.

What is a soul?
Answer: When you examine the day 'soul' is used in the Bible, it is evident that this word basically refers to
1. People
1 Peter 3:20: in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
The word souls here clearly stands for people-Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives.

2. Animals
Genesis 1:20: 20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens...”

3. Life of a person or animal.
Exodus 4:19: All the men hunting for your soul(life) are dead.
Ezekiel 18:4- “Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.
In other words, the soul is not immortal.
It dies.

- How do you know that souls exist?
If you get what I explained earlier, then I don't have to answer this.

- Do animals - dogs, cats, worms, flies, mosquitos, lice, chimps - have souls?
Animals are souls.

- If they do, what are the implications?
That their souls will one day die.

- Why is it ok to butcher them?
Because we have subjection over them. And God instructed that we use them as food.

- Will there be animals in heaven and hell?
Lol
This one is tricky.
Tricky because I don't believe in hell fire. (Topic for another day).

Will they be in heaven? No, they won't.
Because only spirits can inherit heaven.
And guess what? They're not spirits.

- What does a human being have that animals don't have?
If we're looking at it in the context of soul and spirits, nothing really.
They both have a soul and a spirit.

Now, what is a spirit?
A Spirit is the life force that animates all living creatures.
The soul and the spirit are not the same.
The body needs the spirit in order to function.

To illustrate: think of a radio. When you put batteries in a radio and turn it on, it brings the radio to life, so to speak. Without batteries, however, the radio is dead. Similarly, the spirit is the force that brings our body to life.

The battery, like the spirit has no feeling and cannot think.

James 2:26: "The body without spirit is dead.

Hope you perfectly get this.

Thanks.

Ok so animals can't go to heaven because they lack a spirit but humans do?

Then this spirit is what exactly? The stuff that animates humans? Lemme ask you. ..aren't animals animated?

macof:


Ok so animals can't go to heaven because they lack a spirit but humans do?

Then this spirit is what exactly? The stuff that animates humans? Lemme ask you. ..aren't animals animated?

Please re-read what I sent to you

MzNelly:


Please re-read what I sent to you

Ok . I have. ..I see where I missed it

But I'll like to correct something tho. "Soul" is actually the "animator" of living creatures

macof:


Ok . I have. ..I see where I missed it

But I'll like to correct something tho. "Soul" is actually the "animator" of living creatures

Okay

MzNelly:


Okay

Waiting for your reply

macof:


Ok so animals can't go to heaven because they lack a spirit but humans do?

Then this spirit is what exactly? The stuff that animates humans? Lemme ask you. ..aren't animals animated?

I don't know if animals will go to Heaven or not, but apparently animals have spirit.

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth

In my blog i talked about the origin of Man and animalsthat article explained alot about the human spirit and the animistic. Seek the grail message and everything will be made clear to you. Henshj..com.ng