"Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?"

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_command_theory

I have one question:
If God does not Commend it the who decides what is morally bad are good? Who gave the morals?

I know what the answer from my stand point is, just want to know what you think.

huxley:

"Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?"

Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_command_theory

Take for instance slavery. What is your moral opinion of slavery? What did god have to say about slavery?

If you even need God to tell you that slavery (the likes that dominated America's past) is wrong, you need your brain replaced.

HCH3COO:

If you even need God to tell you that slavery (the likes that dominated America's past) is wrong, you need your brain replaced.

So there are some things which are wrong which god has not commanded them to be wrong? How do we know what such things are?

I disagree, huxley. I know (believe) the bible has covered all the necessary bases.
To add on to that,
Irrespective of religion, people have their different priorities. Some expect the law to dictate the types of morals by which they live; others acquire their morals from people they see as their role models.

HCH3COO:

I disagree, huxley. I know (believe) the bible has covered all the necessary bases.
To add on to that,
Irrespective of religion, people have their different priorities. Some expect the law to dictate the types of morals by which they live; others acquire their morals from people they see as their role models.

Yep. But how do we know slavery is wrong. Where the hell did god command it as wrong?

If god did not command it as wrong, why does contemporary society defines it as morally wrong?

If it's not defined in the bible as wrong (which it is), contemporary society has defined it as wrong because forced labor to them (to us) is wrong, killing is wrong - all of these are wrong for the simple reasons that they violate established laws.

Basically, i'm taking into account that you don't believe in God. But that still should not prevent you from conforming to laws established by popular consensus which deem it wrong

HCH3COO:

If it's not defined in the bible as wrong (which it is), contemporary society has defined it as wrong because forced labor to them (to us) is wrong, killing is wrong - all of these are wrong for the simple reasons that they violate established laws.

Pardon me, but you have not answered my question. Where in the bible is it defined as wrong? If contemporary society defines it as wrong, how did contemporary society come up with the notion that it is wrong.

Is contemporary society capable of defining laws binding on us all, which god has not defined?

HCH3COO:

Basically, i'm taking into account that you don't believe in God. But that still should not prevent you from conforming to laws established by popular consensus which deem it wrong

How does it matter whether I believe in god or not?

In fact, you have made a very good point in your second statement. So is popular consensus capable of defining what is morally good/bad. If so why do we need god's commands?

If contemporary society defines it as wrong, how did contemporary society come up with the notion that it is wrong.

Is contemporary society capable of defining laws binding on us all, which god has not defined?

Ask contemporary society how they are able to define it as wrong.  Is it not comprised of people who do and don't believe in the concept of God?  They must know something you don't.  Being in the right state of mind and believing in God are not necessarily synonymous, but with an unstained mindframe you should be able to distinguish between right and wrong, good or evil.  What say you about conscience?

HCH3COO:

Ask contemporary society how they are able to define it as wrong. Is it not comprised of people who do and don't believe in the concept of God? They must know something you don't. Being in the right state of mind and believing in God are not necessarily synonymous, but with an unstained mindframe you should be able to distinguish between right and wrong, good or evil. What say you about conscience?

If we can defined what is right/wrong, then god is redundant, isn't it? Society is capable of defining its own moral codes without appeal to a supernatural being.

How does it matter whether I believe in god or not?

In fact, you have made a very good point in your second statement.  So is popular consensus capable of defining what is morally good/bad. If so why do we need god's commands?

The funny thing, popular consensus has also allowed contemporary society to give us the freedom to practice whichever religion we choose.   Many have chosen to choose God as their guiding light to salvation, meaning he is needed by them for their prosperity.  To they who choose him, he is needed.

If we can defined what is right/wrong, the god is redundant, isn't it? Society is capable of defining its own moral codes without appeal to a supernatural being.

To some he is redundant, to a lot more he is compulsory - make your choose . To me he is not redundant because he is the means by which many choose what directs them.

So how would society found its morals. Should we base them on the holy books or should we arrive at them through a popular societal consensus? What if the popular consensus conflicts with god's commands?

Also, since you asked about bible verses condemning slavery.  Even if slavery is not directly condemned in the bible, I am sure the children of God were/are warned to do unto others as is done onto them.  If they can't take the punishment but continue to dish it out, they are already in violation of that warning.
- I will urge you to interprete the passage I have given as is related to slavery, which is what you asked about.  Don't take it out of context.

huxley:

So how would society found its morals. Should we base them on the holy books or should we arrive at them through a popular societal consensus? What if the popular consensus conflicts with god's commands?

That is a question of opinion. In my opinion, let the society where you reside dictate the moral codes that govern their society. If they choose to live by God's standards honor to them.

HCH3COO:

That is a question of opinion. In my opinion, let the society where you reside dictate the moral codes that govern their society. If they choose to live by God's standards honor to them.

Then in that case, there are no absolute god-ordained morals. Morals are therefore subjective.

HCH3COO:

Also, since you asked about bible verses condemning slavery. Even if slavery is not directly condemned in the bible, I am sure the children of God were/are warned to do unto others as is done onto them. If they can't take the punishment but continue to dish it out, they are already in violation of that warning.
- I will urge you to interprete the passage I have given as is related to slavery, which is what you asked about. Don't take it out of context.

What sort of law systems would that be that commands one, and in another breath commands the opposite?

Consider the following two commands, separated by only a few hundreds of words in the bible;

Exodus 20: 13 Thou shalt not kill.

Exodus 21: 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Which one of these should one observe and why? How do we decide which one take precedent over the other?

Morals to each person is subjective depending on his belief system.  There are characteristics (seen as morals) defined by God by which we live our lives. We have been given the freewill by God to decide what we do.  If we follow his teachings we will not go wrong, if we decide to deviate we put ourselves in danger of not inheriting the kingdom of God.

HCH3COO:

Morals to each person is subjective depending on his belief system. There are characteristics (seen as morals) defined by God by which we live our lives. We have been given the freewill by God to decide what we do. If we follow his teachings we will not go wrong, if we decide to deviate we put ourselves in danger of not inheriting the kingdom of God.

But what if I decide to trade in humans, just like the Israelite did, would that be disobeying god's will?

As for the shou shalt not kill verse.
- The important idea to take away from the bible is, there are times you interprete it metaphorically or should I just say figuratively, and there are times you interprete it literally.  Comparing the 10 commandments of God to another passage taken out of context is like comparing apples to oranges.  The interpretation of the bible is for the spiritual-minded.  That is why we have pastors/preachers/etc. . . spreading the word of God, teaching us right from wrong.

But what if I decide to trade in humans, just like the Israelite did, would that be disobeying god's will?

The decision is not solely yours. Another human being is being forced to give up his/her liberty for your trading benefits.

HCH3COO:

The decision is not solely yours. Another human being is being forced to give up his/her liberty for your trading benefits.

So I would not have violated one of god's laws then, would i?

HCH3COO:

As for the shou shalt not kill verse.
- The important idea to take away from the bible is, there are times you interprete it metaphorically or should I just say figuratively, and there are times you interprete it literally. Comparing the 10 commandments of God to another passage taken out of context is like comparing apples to oranges. The interpretation of the bible is for the spiritual-minded. That is why we have pastors/preachers/etc. . . spreading the word of God, teaching us right from wrong.

How do we know which bits to take literally and which to take metaphorically/figuratively.

No you would not have vilated one of "god"'s laws but yes you would have violated one of "G"od's laws. 

- we christians have this thing about distinguishing between god (idolatry) and God, so pardon me for nitpicking on the G.

HCH3COO:

No you would not have vilated one of "god"'s laws but yes you would have violated one of "G"od's laws.

- we christians have this thing about distinguishing between god (idolatry) and God, so pardon me for nitpicking on the G.

Ok, which one of God's law?

Knowing which bit to take figuratively or literally is not for the faint of heart or the ordinary man.  The chosen men of God, or God himself, will point you in the right direction.

Which one of God's laws? Well, remember I mentioned doing unto others as you want done unto you? That's in jeopardy here isn't it?

HCH3COO:

Which one of God's laws? Well, remember I mentioned doing unto others as you want done unto you? That's in jeopardy here isn't it?

Yes, but how come in spite of this god was still commanding his people about taking others as slaves. If it was good for them then, why should it not be good for me now?

Booooo . .
I have to go now.  Talk later  


To answer your last question, times have changed and you are not God. Asides from that, you were not commanded by God to take others as slaves. Cheers!

HCH3COO:

Booooo . .
I have to go now. Talk later


To answer your last question, times have changed and you are not God. Asides from that, you were not commanded by God to take others as slaves. Cheers!

Was good chatting with you. Have a goodday.