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Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by mrphysics(m): 2:10pm On Dec 30, 2013
to me its not gud, the church shud just allow d person to b in d church, someday, somehow, the Holy Ghost will arrest d person in d church and dat we lead to a total and complete repentance
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Appliedmaths(m): 2:12pm On Dec 30, 2013
I am impressed with the response so far. The OP only told us one side of the story, few response has x-rayed the whole matter.

If she was warned before excommunication- No case to answer, but be praying for her.

If she wasn't warned before excommunication- Woe be unto the church for reducing the sheep instead of increasing.

Some people don't know how to correct others, that's where I think they missed it. At the early stage of the whole matter, she should have been corrected with love, prayers and counseling. Although I wasn't there, but I believe that if the lady was corrected with this technique things wouldn't have been this way.

Some people think they own the church. In my local church, a pastors wife(Good women leader) told a struggling youth that she would personally tell her husband not to baptize her because of her character. I had to step in the situation before things came down.

So the mode of correction matters, yes we want them to change but let us be cautious less we chase them to the world.

The essence of the church is to change men from their old dirty ways to new celestial beings.( Lol I nor be cele ooo grin)

So if the church rejects a sinner, where else would the sinner go?

1 Like

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by AlabaSlim: 2:12pm On Dec 30, 2013
Yes paul the apostle told the pple @ CORINTH to excommunicate a guy who slept with his father's wife so that after guilt & torment from devil, he will repent & be accepted back into the church fold

2nd corinthians chapter 5:1-13
Now i ask;
Is paul WICKED?

2 Likes

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Nobody: 2:13pm On Dec 30, 2013
God’s Word commands that unrepentant sinners be removed from the congregation. (Read 1 Corinthians 5:9-13.) This is necessary for at least three reasons: (1) to keep God’s name free from reproach, (2) to protect the congregation from contamination, and (3) to help the sinner come to repentance if possible.


Consider a Scriptural example of excommunicating. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.” (1 Corinthians 5:1-5) When excommunicated and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world. (1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.


5 Before a very long time had passed, Paul urged the Christians in Corinth to reinstate the wrongdoer. Why? It was so that they might not be “overreached by Satan,” said the apostle. The sinner had evidently repented and cleaned up his life. (2 Corinthians 2:8-11) If the Corinthians refused to reinstate the repentant man, Satan would overreach them in that they would be as hard and unforgiving as the Devil wanted them to be. Very likely, they soon did “forgive and comfort” the penitent man.—2 Corinthians 2:5-7.

2 Likes

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by tpia5: 2:15pm On Dec 30, 2013
True talk.

Penitence is what is being looked for here, you can't serve two masters.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by biltem: 2:21pm On Dec 30, 2013
So many hypocrates! Throw the first stone if u have not committed similar or other sins before or ongoing which are currently hidden. When u excommunicate how do u want her or him hear the word of salvation for him or her to repent. Jesus never give up on any sinner. He said he love sinner but hate sin. So if we are to follow Jesus footstep, it will be wrong to excommunicate. Remember, Jesus also said, let the wheat and shafts. Be grown together but there will come time we shall separate them during harvest. Those are the words and direction of the Lord. I strongly believe that those that excommunicate will have lot of explanation to make before the Lord in addition to answering to their own hidden sins.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by biltem: 2:25pm On Dec 30, 2013
biltem: So many hypocrates! Throw the first stone if u have not committed similar or other sins before or ongoing which are currently hidden. When u excommunicate how do u want her or him hear the word of salvation for him or her to repent. Jesus never give up on any sinner. He said he love sinner but hate sin. So if we are to follow Jesus footstep, it will be wrong to excommunicate. Remember, Jesus also said, let the wheat and shafts. Be grown together but there will come time we shall separate them during harvest. Those are the words and direction of the Lord. I strongly believe that those that excommunicate will have lot of explanation to make before the Lord in addition to answering to their own hidden sins.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Nobody: 2:28pm On Dec 30, 2013
I dont know whether modern christians did not see in their own bible where it was written that christ did not come for the righteous but the sinners.even jesus stated in the bible that a healthy person needs no doctor,only a sick person.moreover i dont know where they saw 'excommunucate'

it is obvious that modern day christians are not yet ready for christ return with all this church bickering and pettiness.smh
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by AlabaSlim: 2:29pm On Dec 30, 2013
Ishsoph: God’s Word commands that unrepentant sinners be removed from the congregation. (Read 1 Corinthians 5:9-13.) This is necessary for at least three reasons: (1) to keep God’s name free from reproach, (2) to protect the congregation from contamination, and (3) to help the sinner come to repentance if possible.


Consider a Scriptural example of excommunicating. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.” (1 Corinthians 5:1-5) When excommunicated and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world. (1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.


5 Before a very long time had passed, Paul urged the Christians in Corinth to reinstate the wrongdoer. Why? It was so that they might not be “overreached by Satan,” said the apostle. The sinner had evidently repented and cleaned up his life. (2 Corinthians 2:8-11) If the Corinthians refused to reinstate the repentant man, Satan would overreach them in that they would be as hard and unforgiving as the Devil wanted them to be. Very likely, they soon did “forgive and comfort” the penitent man.—2 Corinthians 2:5-7.
You know the church DIED immediately the world i.e. The churches including the 9ja churches started preaching & accepted the AMERICAN WAY OF GOSPEL;
1. Don't preach about sin else the pple (the wealthy) would leave the church
2. Dress the way u want, our GAAAD yes our GAAAD is a guuuud GAAAD yes he looks @ ur heart
3. Don't excommunicate anybody whether they put earrings or braid their hair
4. Tell the pple what they want to HEAR as long as you make sure the tithes & offerings are in the box, etc
we all know the rest
9ja is not different but wetin GOD go judge yankee ehn ee go tooo Strong
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by victorazy(m): 2:36pm On Dec 30, 2013
Goshen360: One thing I know is, today's church is still far from Christ like Christianity. Christ never taught such neither the Apostles. Until we understand Christ-like Christianity, we will continue to promote religion thinking we're doing God a favour. The Christ I know, will never excommunicate any of His followers - that's the Christianity of Christ.

Bros is that how u understand it?
Can I ask u a question? Can a follower of Christ as u rightly said follow or date a married man or commit aldultry?
Jesus ur calling brought good news that everybody was entitled to hear, what do u do after maters.
God excommunite with sinners. 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 till u repent again. Why do u go to pastors for prophecies?
If ur born-again, all old lifes should be past for u to embrace new life, u don't serve two masters.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Nobody: 2:36pm On Dec 30, 2013
Ishsoph: God’s Word commands that unrepentant sinners be removed from the congregation. (Read 1 Corinthians 5:9-13.) This is necessary for at least three reasons: (1) to keep God’s name free from reproach, (2) to protect the congregation from contamination, and (3) to help the sinner come to repentance if possible.


Consider a Scriptural example of excommunicating. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.” (1 Corinthians 5:1-5) When excommunicated and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world. (1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.


5 Before a very long time had passed, Paul urged the Christians in Corinth to reinstate the wrongdoer. Why? It was so that they might not be “overreached by Satan,” said the apostle. The sinner had evidently repented and cleaned up his life. (2 Corinthians 2:8-11) If the Corinthians refused to reinstate the repentant man, Satan would overreach them in that they would be as hard and unforgiving as the Devil wanted them to be. Very likely, they soon did “forgive and comfort” the penitent man.—2 Corinthians 2:5-7.
mr man before you turn the bible upside down,did you not see where it was written that christ did not come for the self righteous but the sinners.why dont you let God be their judge,moreover it is only God that has the exclusive right to label anyone sinner or saint.why all this holier than thou,judgemental attitudes.

There is soooo much divisions in christiandom that jesus is not happy with and the annoying thing is that there is so much bickering over trivialities e.g some wear earing and some dont,some wear trousers and some dont


shioorrrr
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Nobody: 2:44pm On Dec 30, 2013
truthislight: This are your vain opinions.



"I wrote unto you in an epistle not to keep company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat with him. For what have I to do with judging those outside ? do not ye judge them that are withing ? But them that are outside God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).

Oh please get real!!

In that case, half (or probably more than half) of the congregation of all churches would be excommunicated!

And I never said what would "Paul" do.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by tpia5: 2:44pm On Dec 30, 2013
Even many unbelievers do not struggle with fornication and adultery the way christians do.

Where is the power of Christ if we are constantly negating it by the way we live?

Seems a lot of folks are being fooled by what they see in the media.

In any case, most churches just let it slide, so nobody here needs to worry?
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Nobody: 2:46pm On Dec 30, 2013
Alaba_Slim:
You know the church DIED immediately the world i.e. The churches including the 9ja churches started preaching & accepted the AMERICAN WAY OF GOSPEL;
1. Don't preach about sin else the pple (the wealthy) would leave the church
2. Dress the way u want, our GAAAD yes our GAAAD is a guuuud GAAAD yes he looks @ ur heart
3. Don't excommunicate anybody whether they put earrings or braid their hair
4. Tell the pple what they want to HEAR as long as you make sure the tithes & offerings are in the box, etc
we all know the rest
9ja is not different but wetin GOD go judge yankee ehn ee go tooo Strong

You can as well say the church died the minute Jesus chose to save a prostitute from being stoned!. That would make it better, no?

Funny how all I see are quotes from Paul and so on.

If Pastors should really know about what goes on in each individual's life... Oh well
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Nobody: 2:49pm On Dec 30, 2013

1 Like

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Richy4(m): 2:51pm On Dec 30, 2013
In every organisation, there must be laid down rules and regulation in place to guide that organisation just like every country has government.
so Christians are not exception to having rules governing them.

for instance, The ten commandment was there to guide the children of Israel as they moved out of Egypt. there are certain guys who disobeyed the rule, God asked Moses to tell the children of Israel to separate themselves from those guys. (in other words Excommunication) what happened to them was that the Earth opened it's mouth and swallowed them up.

you and I will think that that was really harsh for God to Kill those Guys for protesting or having their freedom of speech exercised .but that was why Jesus came to plead on our behalf so that when God sees that Blood that gushed out of him on the cross, he will just chill.

I guess excommunication is there to make the person to reflect and repent.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Infoay: 2:57pm On Dec 30, 2013
Discipline is the word
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Nobody: 3:11pm On Dec 30, 2013
kulyie: mr man before you turn the bible upside down,did you not see where it was written that christ did not come for the self righteous but the sinners.why dont you let God be their judge,moreover it is only God that has the exclusive right to label anyone sinner or saint.why all this holier than thou,judgemental attitudes.

There is soooo much divisions in christiandom that jesus is not happy with and the annoying thing is that there is so much bickering over trivialities e.g some wear earing and some dont,some wear trousers and some dont


shioorrrr

You are notorious in NL for making comments innuadated with petty insults before passing your points. However, I would not thread that path with you Miss! That said pls answer the following questions if you care to;

1) If you have an unrepentant paedoph.ile as a member of your church and he's been repeatedly caught in the act and has been tried to be helped but he has resisted all the scriptural counsels and suggestions given to him by the church leadership will you be comfortable coming to church with your minors knowing such brother is at lose?

2)If you caught a christain sister sleeping with your hubby(assuming you are married) and you reported to the church and through further investigations they found out that the relationship has been on for a long time(which speaks of unrepentance) will you continue to go to that church if such woman is not disciplined and how would other married women view it, is it not a dangerous precedent?

3) What of someones that has been stealing money from the church coffers and one day he's caught, would such person be allowed to continue to make jest of God's underseved kindness by being left without appropriate discipline?

You called me hollier than thou and claimed that Jesus came for sinners which is true by-d-way, but the sinners are you and I cos all has sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God but that does not mean we should capitalize in our sinful nature and abound in sin(which would make us no different from those of the world whom we preach to) in which case we'll be nailing our Lord Jesus a second time in the stake and lose his grace. What I wrote earlier which you attacked is based on sound scriptural reasoning, not my words.
Note: UNREPENTANCE is the keyword here.

Peace!

1 Like

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by victorazy(m): 3:21pm On Dec 30, 2013
kulyie: mr man before you turn the bible upside down,did you not see where it was written that christ did not come for the self righteous but the sinners.why dont you let God be their judge,moreover it is only God that has the exclusive right to label anyone sinner or saint.why all this holier than thou,judgemental attitudes.

There is soooo much divisions in christiandom that jesus is not happy with and the annoying thing is that there is so much bickering over trivialities e.g some wear earing and some dont,some wear trousers and some dont


shioorrrr

What do you know dat ur saying? "Jesus came for the sinners" and sinners should remain sinners even as Jesus is coming again abi? Excommunication is allowed in church if a member is so stiff to re-trace his way, or Jesus told the prostitute to go back and sin again? As na u sabi Jesus pass.

1 Like

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by smada13(m): 3:25pm On Dec 30, 2013
after reading evryone's well thought out position on d topic, I want to say that excommunication can only be permitted after the person in question refuses to change and his/her behaviour is affecting other people or putting the church in a bad lyt...



will want to digress a bit



how do I start a tread here, bin reading people's comments n update for more than 4years, and I felt like coming into the house to add my own little traffic..

anyone to welcome and show me around the house coolafter reading evryone's well thought out position on d topic, I want to say that excommunication can only be permitted after the person in question refuses to change and his/her behaviour is affecting other people or putting the church in a bad lyt...



will want to digress a bit



how do I start a tread here, bin reading people's comments n update for more than 4years, and I felt like coming into the house to add my own little traffic..

anyone to welcome and show me around the house
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Oyinprince(m): 3:27pm On Dec 30, 2013
Im disappointed wit comments here, 'An erring member' is someone making mistakes n he/she nids to be corrected (prayed for if need be) . Its different 4rm a case where some1 is deliberately doin d wrong stuff. I tot d church was 2 mke pple perfect

1 Like

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by lillies: 3:27pm On Dec 30, 2013
A repentant wrongdoer should not be excommunicated - noted.
In some churches, the wrongdoer (repentant) must be punished for the already committed sin. The church says they do that to teach other members a lesson (i.e not to get involved in any wrongdoing). Is it right for a church to punish a repentant wrongdoer in order to teach a lesson?
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by victorazy(m): 3:28pm On Dec 30, 2013
Ur welcome!
Ur answer is correct.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by s3nn2x(m): 3:31pm On Dec 30, 2013
Wow!
I have learnt a lot from the numerous comments. I am quite happy with the civility on this thread.

I'd share this thread with my peeps.


Thanks!
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Alwaystrue(f): 3:37pm On Dec 30, 2013
s3nn2x: ^^^^
I believe she was warned.
So she was warned but went on doing it? May be that is why the church took the measure to expel her.


s3nn2x: Anyway, I also noticed that when a brethren sees another brethren sinning, instead of telling that person that what he is doing is wrong; People tend to report such person to other people. Leading it to get to the knowledge of the church leadership without the culprit knowing, the next thing we know is that such a person would be disciplined.
Jesus has given us an idea of what to do in Matthew quoted on page 1. The onus lies with us to intervene. However many atimes due to certain differences (age, sex), the intervener may have to talk to someone else about it, usually the church or department head which leads to what you highlighted above. The scenario you painted happens even in ther aspects of life, once those in authority hear of a matter it becomes a different matter.

You are more concerned about the lady but what about other believers? That is why the church as a body takes such measures atimes.

Titus 3:10-11
10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,
11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them

Titus 3:11
10 As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,
11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned


Someone who has been warned, once, twice yet feels comfortable to continue; someone who has been rebuked infront of all the church yet is still stubborn is more or less warped and stands self-condemned already. Something like fornication and adultery is not some ambiguous sin so what kind of justification does the person have to continue in it?


s3nn2x: Also, what happens to the excommunicated person? Is there provision for followup?
Follow up is good but should be done at arms length and by a group of people. Prayer for the person should not cease. Excommunication from a church does not mean excommunication by God especially when he later realises and comes back. As I said earlier, it depends on if the person is willing to be contrite. For a repentant person, there is an example below not to keep the person away:

2 Corinthians 2:5-8
5 I am not overstating it when I say that the man who caused all the trouble hurt all of you more than he hurt me.
6 Most of you opposed him, and that was punishment enough.
7 Now, however, it is time to forgive and comfort him. Otherwise he may be overcome by discouragement.
8 So I urge you now to reaffirm your love for him



s3nn2x:
Because, I noticed that after someone is excommunicated, the church forgets about such a person. The church does not bother to find out about the wellbeing of such a person. Is that what the bible wanted us to do? To totally give up on a person? How will the person learn?

I am not against disciplinary measures, but I think excommunication is quite extreme.
I think I have answered this above. We are still called to love everyone but just as you do not allow anything and everything into your own house, you can use wisdom to know that if this person is still planning to stay polluted, there is nothing you can do about it but stay away.

1 Like

Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by naijathings(m): 4:00pm On Dec 30, 2013
[size=18pt]yes[/size]...
it is a business center/company/industry/firm/office...
it is how to run business
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by d5fada: 4:06pm On Dec 30, 2013
IS IT RIGHT FOR GOD TO EXCOMMUNICATE (SEND TO HELL) UNREPENTANT SINNERS?
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by taigee: 4:07pm On Dec 30, 2013
Goshen360: One thing I know is, today's church is still far from Christ like Christianity. Christ never taught such neither the Apostles. Until we understand Christ-like Christianity, we will continue to promote religion thinking we're doing God a favour. The Christ I know, will never excommunicate any of His followers - that's the Christianity of Christ.

You got this one so wrong!!!
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by mount1ng(m): 4:07pm On Dec 30, 2013
Goshen360: One thing I know is, today's church is still far from Christ like Christianity. Christ never taught such neither the Apostles. Until we understand Christ-like Christianity, we will continue to promote religion thinking we're doing God a favour. The Christ I know, will never excommunicate any of His followers - that's the Christianity of Christ.

Don't speak out of sentiment. Study the bible very well. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Can you loose your salvation?
Assembly of people is not a church but you are the church. Christ is coming back you not a building. God help us through the Holy Spirit to be ready for His coming.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by Alexk2(m): 4:16pm On Dec 30, 2013
Excommunicatn is simply a way the church choose to discipline eerin member....this cannot be exclusively applied to all members without bringing controversy. in most churches, itz only applicable to workers, elders, choiristers, pastors and all that have serious things doing in the church. you can't be a worker in His vinyard and choose to just behave as u lyk...there must be a check and balance.
Re: Is It Right For A Church To Excommunicate An Erring Member? by mollie12: 5:20pm On Dec 30, 2013
mrphysics: to me its not gud, the church shud just allow d person to b in d church, someday, somehow, the Holy Ghost will arrest d person in d church and dat we lead to a total and complete repentance

Or somehow, that person will influence new believers and embolden them to live sinfully. Now which of the two evils will you pick?

Disfellowshipping is a biblical practice, and it must be done in wisdom. Like the instance the OP stated, if a member is disfellowshipped for sexual immorality and there are members of the church who collect bribes, embezzle at work, etc, that are not being disciplined, then that's double standards at work. They are then creating the impression that sexual sins are heavier than others. These things must be done with wisdom.

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