What is the difference between Heaven and the Kingdom of God?

Heaven is beyond the sky.

The Kingdom of God is within you and about you.

One is included in the other. Heaven is a geographical location in the kingdom of God which has members in heaven and on earth. Those who believe therefore are citizens of heaven. Even though they live here on earth (physically), they also live in and function from the kingdom of God.
Isnt it marvelous that this same kingdom of God resides within every believer in Christ?
However, the extent to which he/she influences his/her world with what he/she has within is a function of revelation knowledge.
. . . Thy kingdom come oh Lord.

donnie:

One is included in the other. Heaven is a geographical location in the kingdom of God which has members in heaven and on earth. Those who believe therefore are citizens of heaven. Even though they live here on earth (physically), they also live in and function from the kingdom of God.
Isnt it marvelous that this same kingdom of God resides within every believer in Christ?
However, the extent to which he/she influences his/her world with what he/she has within is a function of revelation knowledge.
. . . Thy kingdom come oh Lord.

No be small thing ohhh, huxley you don go buy market ba?

Luke 17:

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

[table][tr][td]The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
[/td][td]behold, the kingdom of God is within you.[/td][/tr][/table]

Can any of Jesus's pronouncements be so confusing and misleading as the above statement. In fact, all of Luke 17 is one of the most confused of jesus' s supposed speechs.

@huxley,

huxley:

Can any of Jesus's pronouncements be so confusing and misleading as the above statement. In fact, all of Luke 17 is one of the most confused of jesus' s supposed speechs.

What was confusing you in the verses you quoted above?

@ poster the answer to your question is simple:
Here is the dictionary's definition of Kingdom
 
5. the spiritual sovereignty of God or Christ.  6. the domain over which the spiritual sovereignty of God or Christ extends, whether in heaven or on earth. 
(dictionary.com definition 5 and 6)

Here is dictionary's definition of heaven

1. the abode of God, the angels, and the spirits of the righteous after death; the place or state of existence of the blessed after the mortal life. 
2. (initial capital letter) Often, Heavens. the celestial powers; God. 
3. a metonym for God (used in expressions of emphasis, surprise, etc.): For heaven's sake! 
(dictionary.com)

donnie is right. Kingdom of God is just the sovereignty, rulership of God. People on earth who obeys the laws of God are in the kingdom of God. In heaven which is the realms above the earth, realms like paradise and the divine realm, there the kingdom of God reigns supreme.

One on earth who lives a life that is God pleasing in already in the kingdom of God, eventhough he is still physically on earth. Just as an American embassy in the Nigerian soil is part of American government and not part of Nigeria. Eventhough this embassy is physically in Nigeria, it is still part of America or an extenstion of the American government.

At the moment there are basically two kingdoms on earth: the kingdom of God (God pleasing people) and the kingdom of darkness(disobedience to God).
In the future, after the purification of the earth, only the kingdom of God will remain. Then the disobedient ones will no longer be on earth, all the state laws and all the government of the earth will be fashioned in accord with God's will. Then the earth will also totally be a kingdom of God like the heavens. then their will be no more diseases, evil, and wickedness on earth. Then the earth will be like the garden of Eden, just as God intended it to be in the first place. Just as the earth was in the beginning, before man made it bad by removing himself from the kingdom of God.

To summarize:
Heaven is a place.
Kingdom is sovereignty, dominance, or rulership of a king.
Kingdom of God is sovereignty, dominance, or rulership of God.
Kingdom of God on earth is the sovereignty, dominance or rulership of God on earth.

justcool:

To summarize:
Heaven is a place.
Kingdom is sovereignty, dominance, or rulership of a king.
Kingdom of God is sovereignty, dominance, or rulership of God.
Kingdom of God on earth is the sovereignty, dominance or rulership of God on earth.

Well appreciated.

The point however is not simply on definitions, especially so because most English dictionaries are inadequate to enunciate Biblical terms contextually and substantially.

It seems huxley's concerns were more about the sphere of the Kingdom:

huxley:

[table][tr][td]The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
[/td][td]behold, the kingdom of God is within you.[/td][/tr][/table]

What many people are wondering about is the true meaning and import of the kingdom being "within" the believer as contrasted with the idea that we are in it, as in the quote:

People on earth who obeys the laws of God are in the kingdom of God

.

I've heard this kind of argument several times, and it would help (perhaps) to try and point out what precisely the enquirer seeks to understand. In simple terms, what huxley might've seemed to highlight could be summarized in another question:

[list][list]Is the kingdom within you. . . or. . . are you in the kingdom?[/list][/list]

The Bible gives both sides of the meaning throughout the New Testament. Only when people see this can they understand what Luke 17 was pointing to.

pilgrim.1:

I've heard this kind of argument several times, and it would help (perhaps) to try and point out what precisely the enquirer seeks to understand. In simple terms, what huxley might've seemed to highlight could be summarized in another question:

[list][list]Is the kingdom within you. . . or. . . are you in the kingdom?[/list][/list]

The Bible gives both sides of the meaning throughout the New Testament. Only when people see this can they understand what Luke 17 was pointing to.

@pilgrim.1
Thanks for your reply. Here are my answers:
In view of what I had already stated in my earlier post, the answer is simple. I  had already stated that in heaven only the kingdom of God reigns supreme. Whatever is from heaven(paradise) is from the kingdom of God, or whatever is from heaven is part of the kingdom of God.

Man caries a part of heaven within him, this is the spirit in everyman. Our physical bodies came from the earth, while our spirits came from above, from heaven or from God. Even in the bible this fact is mentioned, although pictorially. In Genesis we read :

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)

The breath of life which God breathed into the nostrils of man is the spirit in man. This breath is from God or from the kingdom of God, thus this breath is a part of the kingdom of God.

Therefore everybody carries within him a part of the kingdom of God; and this part of the kingdom of God in us speaks to us. This is this spirit in us that speaks to us through our conscience. Everybody knows that his conscience is always in accord with the laws of God, i.e. the ten commandments. I will give examples:
If you are about to steal, your conscience will warn you against it.
If you are about to commite adultery, your conscience will warn you against it.
If you are about to lie against your neighbor, your conscience will warn you against it.

Thus one who listens and obeys his conscience will never sin. Such a person not only carries the kingdom within him, but also is in the kingdom. But through the incitements of Lucifer, most people no longer listen to their conscience. Most people today only listen to voice of  their flesh, i.e. the physical body which speaks through the intelect, lust, and earthly desires.

Therefore everybody carries both the kingdom of God(The breath of God or the Spirit) within him as well as everybody carries darkness and the road to hell(physical or canarl desires) within him. But only those that listen and obey the conscience, i.e. only those that listens to the kingdom of God within them are also in the kingdom. They have made the Lord God their King or the king of their lives.

I will give an analogy:
Every Nigerian knows the laws of Nigeria, but only those that obey this law can be called good citizens.

Everybody carries the laws of God within him(or the ability to recognise the WILL OF God), but only those who obey them or make use of them can be called children of God, only those are in the kingdom of God.

I hope this helps. I go into futher details if needed.

Thanks again, justcool.

There are a few things that may be hard to digest by enquirers such as outlined in huxley's queries; but I forebear for now so we could make a few friendly observations.

justcool:

Therefore everybody carries both the kingdom of God(The breath of God or the Spirit) within him as well as everybody carries darkness and the road to hell(physical or canarl desires) within him.

The above is quite debatable; but let me show you why I'm persuaded it is not what I find in scripture.

Whatever and however anyone defines as "the kingdom of God", it is clearly stated on the other hand that not everyone has "the Spirit". It is emphatically stated that some do not have the Spirit of God in them --

[list][list]"These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit" -- Jude 1:17[/list][/list]

Again, Acts 5:32 makes clear that God only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him: "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Again, we remember that Romans 8:9 says that those who do not have the Spirit do not belong to Christ.

A second thing is that "the Spirit" and "darkness" cannot both be in everyone at the same time. They are mutually exclusive - as is made clear in 2 Cor. 6:14 ("what communion hath light with darkness?". . . see also 1 Thes. 5:5.

Perhaps I might've inadvertently missed your point?

Jesus is indeed Lord of all
pilgrim1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


love u love love u love u with the sweet sweet love of our God.
I missed you
I prayed for you
I'm happy to see you
Glad to know that you're doing well.
I have learnt alot from you and I admire your intelligence.





remember our threads with babs and olabowale

I love and highly respect pilgrim. . . . . . . . . . .

pilgrim.1:

Thanks again, justcool.

There are a few things that may be hard to digest by enquirers such as outlined in huxley's queries; but I forebear for now so we could make a few friendly observations.

The above is quite debatable; but let me show you why I'm persuaded it is not what I find in scripture.

Whatever and however anyone defines as "the kingdom of God", it is clearly stated on the other hand that not everyone has "the Spirit". It is emphatically stated that some do not have the Spirit of God in them --

[list][list]"These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit" -- Jude 1:17[/list][/list]

Again, Acts 5:32 makes clear that God only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him: "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Again, we remember that Romans 8:9 says that those who do not have the Spirit do not belong to Christ.

A second thing is that "the Spirit" and "darkness" cannot both be in everyone at the same time. They are mutually exclusive - as is made clear in 2 Cor. 6:14 ("what communion hath light with darkness?". . . see also 1 Thes. 5:5.

Perhaps I might've inadvertently missed your point?

Dear pilgrim.1
Thanks for your reply. I think the problem we have is the context under which the word spirit is used. The expression "spirit of God" could mean different things:

1) The Holy Spirit, or the third person in the trinity, or God the Holy Spirit.
2) The power of God.
3) The Godly disposition.

In the verse that you quoted, I believe that the expresion "spirit of God" used there is used in the context 3 ( Godly disposition). This is a figure of speech. If you check the meaning of the word spirit you will see that it can be used in different context. Example: I can say that Mr. X has the spirit of Christmas, i.e Mr. X is in the disposition or the mood of Christmas. You can also say that somebody has a youthfull spirit, i.e he has a youthfull disposition. You can also say somebody is in the spirit of new year, or that somebody is in the spirit of the age. All these are figures of speech signifying the person's disposition. Therefore in this context, "spirit of God" is a figure of speech for Godly disposition. Of course you are right sinners do not have the "spirit of God" i.e. sinners do not have a Godly disposition. Therefore I agree with the verse:

[list][list]"These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit" -- Jude 1:17[/list][/list]

One being sensual(lustful) does not having a Godly disposition, thus he does not have "the
spirit of God."

In the second verse you quotedActs 5:32), the "Holy Ghost" used in that context refers to context (2), i.e. the power of the Holy Spirit. It is this power that the apostles received during the Pentecost that allowed them to work and which the bear witness to.

In the third verse that you quotedRomans 8:9), "the spirit" used in this context refers the context (3), i.e. the Godly disposition.

Of course you cannot have both this Godly disposition and darkness disposition in you at the same time. Hence, the verses you quoted (2 Cor. 6:14) and (1 Thes. 5:5).

But this is not the spirit that I meant in my earlier post.  Reread my earlier post and you will see that I never used the expression: "the spirit of God." The spirit that I meant is neither of the of three contexts that I mentioned above. It is not the "Holy Spirit," neither is it "the power of God" nor "The Godly disposition." The spirit that I meant is the breath of God in every man which makes man "a living soul" or which is the truly living man. This breath of God is a spirit. Every man bears spirit withing him, i.e. the inner man in us is of spiritual nature. Just as our body is made of physical substance, this spirit in man is also made of spiritual substance. It is not mood, feeling,or power. It is a real substance, spiritual substance. It originates from Paradise.

Therefore everybody does not have the "spirit of God" but every body has an innermost core which is spirit, or everybody has spirit within him. It is this spirit that is our real self, the physical body is just a covering which returns to dust(discompostion) after death.

I hope this helps. I am will to explain more if need be.

Thanks for your cordiality.

justcool:

Therefore everybody carries both the kingdom of God(The breath of God or the Spirit) within him as well as everybody carries darkness and the road to hell(physical or carnal desires) within him. But only those that listen and obey the conscience, i.e. only those that listens to the kingdom of God within them are also in the kingdom. They have made the Lord God their King or the king of their lives.

I wish to throw more light in the above, especially the bold parts:
What I mean in the above is that everybody on earth carries within him the spirit which originates from the kingdom of God, and which carries the ability to recognise the will of God hardwired in it.
This spirit speaks to us through our conscience and our intuitive perception. If we listen to the voice of the spirit in us (the conscience) it will lead us back to Paradise whence our spirits originated. The spirit being from Paradise, naturally strives towards Paradise.

On earth, our outermost covering(the physical body) is made up of earthly material substance and can never rise above the earth. Thus the incleanation of our physical body remains earth bound. The physical body speaks to us through our intellect, which is earthbound like the physical body, and which is only inclined to earthly things. The intellect is the product of the activity of our brain which a part of the physical body and therefore physical. The intellect is given to use in order to aid us to work on earth, it is earthly and it's field of activity is the earth or the physical world. When used to judge physical things one achieves success, i.e. the intellect is necessary for scientific works, all of which are earthly(physical).-- cars, computer, telephones and etc. Thus when it comes to earthly(physical) things, the intellect is indispensable.

But when it comes to spiritual things the conscience is indispensable. Obedience to the laws of God is a prerequisite for a spirit to return to paradise. And the recognition of the Laws of God is an ability that lies in our spirit, which speaks to us through our conscience not in our intellect.

Thus the right way to live is to put your conscience above all else, above your intellect. The intellect's priority is earthly benefits, while the spirit is priority our spiritual benefit. The intellect can never do the work of the spirit, the intelect can never lead us back to God.

Therefore one who completely closes himself from the admonition of his conscience and listens only to his intellect cuts himself away from recognising God and His will. Overtime such a person will lose the ability to recognize the voice of his conscience which never stops admonishing him, such person hears and uses only his intellect. Such a person places his intellect above his conscience, and overtime he will not be able to recognize any thing spiritual any more. Such a person serves only darkness. This is the road to darkness, to hell.

On the other hand one who puts his conscience above all will soon recognize the will of God. And by listening to the voice of his spirit, he soon will become spiritual and his spiritual perceptive abilities will become stronger and he will feel the nearness of God. Eventhough he is still on earth. Such a person will never be an atheist, because he perceives the power of God, out of which everything was created.

Therefore we carry both the road to darkness and Light with us on earth. Putting our intellect, which belongs to the physical world above our conscience will lead us to hell. This is the road to darkness. The road to materialism, lack of compassion, inhumanity, lasciviousness and wickedness. Since the intellect cannever lead us above the earth.

But putting our conscience above all, is the road to the light, i.e to Paradise. It is the road to compassion, kindness, Love, humanity, peacefullness and righteousness. All these are qualities of the spirit. Such a person truly worships God, because only in the activity of the spirit is God worshiped.

This how we carry both heaven and hell in us.

@justcool,

As ever I quite enjoyed your last two entries, and thanks for taking the time to help me appreciate your contexts in meanings in the terms you used, especially in the second reposte just above. Let me take them in stages so that the points in my replies will not be lost on readers.

While agreeing with you that there might've been a knot on the context of the word 'spirit' in the texts, I'm not quite sure that the verses I cited earlier would follow your meaning. let me explain:

justcool:
In the verse that you quoted, I believe that the expresion "spirit of God" used there is used in the context 3 ( Godly disposition).

(a) Jude 1:19 (my mistake earlier that it was v.17) was not pointing to a disposition; rather it was a concrete statement about these ungodly men (see verse 4) who do not have the very Person of the Holy Spirit in them. Jude tackled the insidious fact that some men creep in unawares into the Church (v.4), and unmasked them as the "ungodly" - a term contextually used by the apostles to mark out those who do not have the very Person of the Spirit of God dwelling in them.

It is only by the Holy Spirit that people can confess the Lordship of Jesus Christ (see 1 Cor. 12:3 - "no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost". Now, Jude clearly shows that those ungodly men who were "denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" (v.4) were doing so for one simple reason - they did not have the Holy Spirit! It takes more than a 'disposition' to confess the Lordship of Christ; and without the Spirit of God, ungodly men will most definitely deny Him.

justcool:
In In the second verse you quotedActs 5:32), the "Holy Ghost" used in that context refers to context (2), i.e. the power of the Holy Spirit. It is this power that the apostles received during the Pentecost that allowed them to work and which the bear witness to.

(b) Acts 5:32 also demonstrates that it was not a 'disposition' or 'power' that the apostle spoke about, but the very "Person" of the Holy Spirit. The point he makes there was that the Holy Spirit was also a witness to 'these things' (ie. the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ - v. 30-31), and underscores the Personality of the Holy Spirit with a subject predicate ("whom". . . ie, 'and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.').

justcool:
In the third verse that you quotedRomans 8:9), "the spirit" used in this context refers the context (3), i.e. the Godly disposition.

(c) Again, Romans 8:9 is clear in its context as referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer ("if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you". The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not to be understood as a disposition, but as a reality of a divine Person who resides in the believer.

Compare this with 1 Corinthians 6:19 where the apostle stated that "your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you"; and also 2 Corinthians 6:16 - "for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them". What separates the believer from the unbeliever is a matter of whether or not the Holy Spirit dwells in them. Hence in Rom. 8:9, the apostle unequivocally states that "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his". . . a concrete point he further develops in the verses following thereafter:

'. . . by his Spirit that dwelleth in you' (v 11)

'. . . the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you' (v 11)

'. . . For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God' (v 14)

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer is much more than a disposition - it is a concretely divine fact of the Person of the Spirit of God Himself who resides in the believer: and that is what distinguishes a person as belonging to Christ.

@justcool,

Having explained my thoughts and persuasions above, let me relate to what you presented in your earlier reply:

1.

justcool:
Therefore everybody carries both the kingdom of God (The breath of God or the Spirit) within him as well as everybody carries darkness and the road to hell(physical or canarl desires) within him.

2.

justcool:
But this is not the spirit that I meant in my earlier post.  Reread my earlier post and you will see that I never used the expression: "the spirit of God." The spirit that I meant is neither of the of three contexts that I mentioned above. It is not the "Holy Spirit," neither is it "the power of God" nor "The Godly disposition." The spirit that I meant is the breath of God in every man which makes man "a living soul" or which is the truly living man.

Well, I stand corrected, but it seems that you had used the expression "the kingdom of God" (as in 1. above) to mean "the breath of God" (as in 2. above). Although in your second entry you had tried to expatiate and clarify the terms.

I don't think it is explicated in that manner in Scripture. I agree with you that every living man has a human spirit in him; but the human spirit is not to be confused with the term "kingdom of God". The reason is quite simple - the Kingdom of God (KoG) is distinct from the human spirit, because the former (KoG) is often spoken of in the Gospels as something to be experienced apart from man's spirit. A few references to see this:

[list][list][li]Matt 12:28 - "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you."[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Matt. 21:43 - "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Mark 10:15 - "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein."[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Luke 10:9  And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you."[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Luke 11:20 - "But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you."[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Luke 16:16 - "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]John 3:5 - "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."[/li][/list][/list]

Certainly, references to the Kingdom of God as cited above do not all mean the same thing in context. However, the point is that not in one instance throughout the NT was it used as synonymous with the spirit of man (or the "living soul". Even if we take the other part of your statement to define it as "the breath of God in every man", it still establishes the fact that not everybody carries the kingdom of God within him - as is clear from the verses cited above. Something has to happen (the new birth - John 3:5) before anyone would be able to experience (or "enter into" the Kingdom of God.

All the same, I'm open to see where I might have missed it again.

@justcool,

Now, a few comments to further distinguish between terms in your further clarifications.

justcool:

This spirit speaks to us through our conscience and our intuitive perception.

So far so good.

justcool:

The intellect is the product of the activity of our brain which a part of the physical body and therefore physical.

Not so clear here. If that was to say that the intellect is "therefore physical", it would contradict all other things you had stated.

justcool:

But when it comes to spiritual things the conscience is indispensable.

Agreed.

justcool:

Thus the right way to live is to put your conscience above all else, above your intellect. . . But putting our conscience above all, is the road to the light, i.e to Paradise. It is the road to compassion, kindness, Love, humanity, peacefullness and righteousness. All these are qualities of the spirit.

This is where my eyes were set on, actually. We cannot live by putting the conscience above all else - I would rather say that the emphasis should be on the 'spirit' instead of the conscience. But before I deal on this, let me quickly remark that God gave us our human intellect and expects us to use it even in spiritual matters. I'll expound more on that sometime later.

Now to the matter of the conscience. The reason why I'm not so keen to agree that it should be emphasised above all else is because there is a sort of dichotomy between the kinds of consciences that men have. Let's see a few of them:

[list][list][li]There are those who have a seared conscience
1 Timothy 4:2 - "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Some people possess a defiled conscience
Titus 1:15 . . . but even their mind and conscience is defiled."[/li][/list][/list]

Just imagine these sort of people putting their consciences above all else. . . what kind of results would one expect to develop from their lifestyles?

Anyhow, as believers we should recognize that our consciences can do either of two things, according to Romans 2:15 - the conscience produces thoughts in our minds that either:

[list][list][li]accuse us[/li][/list][/list] or else
[list][list][li]excuse us[/li][/list][/list]

It is for this reason that we are often admonished to be careful to live a life void of an evil conscience towards God and men. How, in full and intelligent submission to the Holy Spirit Himself. A life seeking to do God's will without knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing (Rom. 10:2).

The conscience of a believer is described in Scripture as capable of the following:

[list][list][li]Being purged from dead works:
Hebrews 9:14 ". . . purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]That we may no longer have a sinful conscience:
Hebrews 10:2 ". . . having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]That we may always hold a good conscience
1 Timothy 1:19 "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck"[/li][/list][/list]

I trust these points are clear now. Many blessings.

Queenisha:

Jesus is indeed Lord of all
pilgrim1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


love u love love u love u with the sweet sweet love of our God.
I missed you
I prayed for you
I'm happy to see you
Glad to know that you're doing well.
I have learnt alot from you and I admire your intelligence.

Lol. . . I can only thank God for His mercies. Many hugs with plenty love O!

Thank you for your prayers O. . . they work wonders! I have truly missed everyone on the Forum, and as I have time between my busy schedule, I'll keep stopping by and dropping a few lines here and there.

Queenisha:

remember our threads with babs and olabowale

Lol. . . I remember. I'm just giving Olabowale some break and teasing him for now. When I have time to waste on him, he'll be reading plenty from me.

Many blessings.

@pilgrim 1

pilgrim.1:

(a) Jude 1:19 (my mistake earlier that it was v.17) was not pointing to a disposition; rather it was a concrete statement about these ungodly men (see verse 4) who do not have the very Person of the Holy Spirit in them. Jude tackled the insidious fact that some men creep in unawares into the Church (v.4), and unmasked them as the "ungodly" - a term contextually used by the apostles to mark out those who do not have the very Person of the Spirit of God dwelling in them.

What you wrote above is a popular Christian belief and interpretation which I disagree with. The Holy Spirit is the third person in the trinity. Just as Jesus was part of God, the Holy Spirit is also a part of God. The Holy Spirit is a person just like Jesus. It is impossible for any creature to have a part of the creator within him. Therefore it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to be inside a human being. Saying that believers have the Holy Spirit inside them is blasphemy, it is like saying that the believers are God! God cannot be inside a human being, that will make that human being God. What makes us humans is the human spirit dwelling within us. This human spirit cannot become the Holy Spirit or carry the Holy Spirit withing it, because the Holy Spirit is God, or a part of God.

What believers(children of God) can have within them or in their Spirit is the Power of the Holy Spirit and not the Holy Spirit itself. This is only logical considering that you cannot have another person dwelling in you. You cannot have my dwelling in you but you can have my power or you can work with my power. If you agree that the Holy Spirit is a person and not just a force like the JW claim then you must agree that you cannot have another person dwelling within you at the same time with your spirit. If in the case of possesion, the possessor first pushes away your spirit before posesing your body. But the Holy Spirit cannot posses people because possesion is evil and God cannot do evil.

It is the power of the Holy Spirit that the apostles received on Pentecost and not the Holy Spirit Itself.

If you read John 16:13 carfully you will see that Jesus was talking about a person to come and not just the power that the apostles received on the Pentecost day.

I repeat: What dwells inside every man on earth is the human Spirit(the Breath of God) which originated from the kingdom of God and which is a part of the Kingdom of God.

Hence Christ said to the pharisees:
" The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17, 20 and 21).

Remember the pharisees are not believers, but yet the kingdom of God is within them. The kingdom of God is within every man, but only few listen to it. i have already explained this in my earlier post.

@ pilgrim1

To explain myself further or clearer.

In my earlier post I wrote:

"The intellect is the product of the activity of our brain which a part of the physical body and therefore physical."

And you objected by saying:

pilgrim.1:
.
Not so clear here. If that was to say that the intellect is "therefore physical", it would contradict all other things you had stated.

Look at the statement carefully. The last part "and therefore physical," refers to the brain and not the intellect. What I mean is the the intellect results from the activity of the brain and the brain being a part of the physical body is also physical.
That said. The intellect is not spiritual. It is material, eventhough not physical. The intellect or the thoughts which it produces is actually fine gross matter. It is still gross mater, i.e. material or earthly, and not spiritual. The intellect being a product of the physical body, can never be spiritual because "flesh(physical) can only beget flesh(physical)," i.e.  what is physical can never produce the spiritual. Only what is spiritual can produce spiritual.

Our conscience or intuitive perception on the other hand is a product of our spirits and our conscience is therefore spiritual.

pilgrim.1:

This is where my eyes were set on, actually. We cannot live by putting the conscience above all else - I would rather say that the emphasis should be on the 'spirit' instead of the conscience. But before I deal on this, let me quickly remark that God gave us our human intellect and expects us to use it even in spiritual matters. I'll expound more on that sometime later.

You are right in saying that emphasis should be put on the spirit. But I had already explained that by conscience, I mean the voice of our spirits. Therefore putting your conscience above all else is also the same as putting your spirit above all else.

pilgrim.1:

Now to the matter of the conscience. The reason why I'm not so keen to agree that it should be emphasised above all else is because there is a sort of dichotomy between the kinds of consciences that men have. Let's see a few of them:

[list][list][li]There are those who have a seared conscience
1 Timothy 4:2 - "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Some people possess a defiled conscience
Titus 1:15 . . . but even their mind and conscience is defiled."[/li][/list][/list]

Just imagine these sort of people putting their consciences above all else. . . what kind of results would one expect to develop from their lifestyles?

Anyhow, as believers we should recognize that our consciences can do either of two things, according to Romans 2:15 - the conscience produces thoughts in our minds that either:

[list][list][li]accuse us[/li][/list][/list] or else
[list][list][li]excuse us[/li][/list][/list]

It is for this reason that we are often admonished to be careful to live a life void of an evil conscience towards God and men. How, in full and intelligent submission to the Holy Spirit Himself. A life seeking to do God's will without knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing (Rom. 10:2).

The conscience of a believer is described in Scripture as capable of the following:

[list][list][li]Being purged from dead works:
Hebrews 9:14 ". . . purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]That we may no longer have a sinful conscience:
Hebrews 10:2 ". . . having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]That we may always hold a good conscience
1 Timothy 1:19 "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck"[/li][/list][/list]

I trust these points are clear now. Many blessings.

Conscience like all English words can mean many things depending on the context it is used. In the verses that you posted above, conscience in that context refers to the mind. This is not what I mean by conscience or intuitive perception.
I have already explained that by conscience I mean the voice of our spirits. The voice of the "breath of God" dwelling in us. There in this context, all men have the same conscience which being part of the kingdom of God always admonishes us to do what is in accord with the will of God.
Whatever comes from you conscience is always in accord with the ten commandments. All men, irrespective of their gender, age, nationality, or religion have the same conscience. When a man is about to kill, steal, lie, commite adultery, he feels a warning voice inside him telling him not to kill, steal, lie, commite adultery, and etc. All men hear this voice, which is their conscience, irrespective of their gender, age, nationality, or religion. But Like I said earlier not all men listens to their conscience. Sometimes in obeying the laws of false religions and states, men go against their conscience and this is wrong, it is also a sin. We are still punishable for our actions irrespective of our religions and orientations.
Thats why we are punished when we fall in temptation. Because if we only listen to our conscience we will easily discern what is wrong from what is right.

Thanks and remain blessed.

Dear justcool,

Once again, thank you for putting your views across with reason. I love that.

justcool:

What you wrote above is a popular Christian belief and interpretation which I disagree with.

Well, I cannot be 'right' or 'popular' most of the time - and that is the beauty of a discussion: to be agreeable and disagreeable at some issues.

justcool:

The Holy Spirit is the third person in the trinity. Just as Jesus was part of God, the Holy Spirit is also a part of God.

I am not sure that is what Scripture persuades me to believe. The idea that either Jesus or the Spirit is "a part" of God implodes into numerous questions that will be hard to defend from God's Word. Jesus is God and so is the Father and the Holy Spirit. I think the mistake many people make when trying to understand God is that when they speak of the Trinity, they are actually thinking of Tritheism.

The difference between the two concepts is that Trinity points to inseparableness of being (more properly "Triune" - we thus can distinguish between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; but we cannot separate them. On the other hand, it is tritheism that separates between them, and that is why many people have such a difficulty understanding the mystery of the Godhead.

justcool:

The Holy Spirit is a person just like Jesus. It is impossible for any creature to have a part of the creator within him. Therefore it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to be inside a human being.

Well, at the backdrop of this persuasion, my conviction is that the Holy Spirit actually lives inside a born again believer. Here is my conviction:

[list][li]John 14:17 -- "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."[/li][/list]

[list][li]2 Corinthians 13:5 -- "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"[/li][/list]

[list][li]1 Corinthians 3:16 -- "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"[/li][/list]

Well, that is not a sample of "popular" belief; but if the Bible decalres it, I'm humble enough to not argue against it but rather rejoice therein.

If I could just develop this thought a bit further. You know, this indwelling of the Holy Spirit is what forever separates the Biblical faiths (Judaism and Christianity) from all other religions. The religions of the world at best speak of God "with" them or God "for" them. However, how many faiths do you come across who speak of God "IN" them? When Christ came into the world, we have the blessing that is found nowhere else:

[list][li]God is "with" us -- Matt. 1:23[/li][/list]

[list][li]God is "for" us -- Rom. 8:31[/li][/list]

[list][li]God is "IN" us -- 1 John 4:4[/li][/list]

It is this concrete reality that is lacking in many people's fellowship with the living God. For He whomade our bodies to be His temple is actually living inside of us - He is not building us into an empty temple; rather, He is living inside those who call upon the name of Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.

pilgrim.1:


The difference between the two concepts is that Trinity points to inseparableness of being (more properly "Triune" - we thus can distinguish between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; but we cannot separate them. On the other hand, it is tritheism that separates between them, and that is why many people have such a difficulty understanding the mystery of the Godhead.

Dear Pilgrim,

Nice to see you here once again. Would you be so kind enough to explain further between Trinity and Tritheism? While I clearly note from your quote above that trinity points to inseparableness of of God, I am also mindful to know that it is a Godhead that functions in three differen[/b]t or [b]separate categories of operation.

Would you therefore imply from your post that tritheism is a subset of TRINITY?

@justcool,

justcool:

What believers(children of God) can have within them or in their Spirit is the Power of the Holy Spirit and not the Holy Spirit itself. This is only logical considering that you cannot have another person dwelling in you.

The problem here is simple: human beings are trying to measure God the way we measure ourselves. That should not be so. God in His omnipresence is able to be in any place at any time and through any person. He is not bound by physical elements, time or space - He is ubiquitous.

justcool:

You cannot have my dwelling in you but you can have my power or you can work with my power.

Well, as can be seen above, the Scripture says that He dwells in us.

justcool:

If you agree that the Holy Spirit is a person and not just a force like the JW claim then you must agree that you cannot have another person dwelling within you at the same time with your spirit.

Is a demon known as "person" or a force? If you agree that a demon can be understood as a living being with faculties such as man possesses, then the case is not difficult to understand what is known as "demon possession". This is when a living being takes possession of a man and lives inside that person! This is why you find that when the Lord Jesus Christ cast out demons, His word was clear:

[list][list][li]Mark 9:25 -- "When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him."[/li][/list][/list]

Think for a moment: this sinister spirit exercises the properties of a living being with personality:

[list][li]. . . he could be spoken to[/li][/list]

[list][li]. . . he could hear what was said to him[/li][/list]

[list][li]. . . he could respond intelligently to the Lord's command[/li][/list]

[list][li]. . . he could also speak intelligently (compare Mark 5:7-9)[/li][/list]

Now, that was simply an illustration on the negative side to share with you that another being can indeed dwell in a human being!

Further, remember what the Lord Jesus said about the dangers of an "empty house" in Matthew 12:43-45?? When a man seems to be satisfied with the idea that he has been delivered and does not need to have God's Spirit dwelling inside him, the enemy will find an "empty" house in that man and demons will take up residence in him. Ican't say it better than Jesus:

[list][li]When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.[/li][/list]

The point is clear - yes, a living being (which is here used as a "person" can dwell inside another person!

Moving on quickly to the positive side: God is a Spirit (John 4:24), and we know that this Spirit is a Living Being - the very "Person" of God Himself. The question is: does this divine Living Person live inside man? And the answer is quite simple: Yes, He does - because He said so Himself!!

[list][li]1 Corinthians 3:16 -- "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"[/li][/list]

There I rest my faith.

justcool:

If in the case of possesion, the possessor first pushes away your spirit before posesing your body. But the Holy Spirit cannot posses people because possesion is evil and God cannot do evil.

The demon does not "push away" a human spirit - for a man without his human spirit is only a corpse.

justcool:

It is the power of the Holy Spirit that the apostles received on Pentecost and not the Holy Spirit Itself.

If that were the case, the apostles would not have been inspired to let us know that the Holy Spirit Himself lives inside us.

justcool:

If you read John 16:13 carfully you will see that Jesus was talking about a person to come and not just the power that the apostles received on the Pentecost day.

That very Person to come was the Holy Spirit - He came according to the promise of the Lord Jesus Christ and dwells in those who believe (John 14:17 -- "for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you".

justcool:

I repeat: What dwells inside every man on earth is the human Spirit(the Breath of God) which originated from the kingdom of God and which is a part of the Kingdom of God.

Okay.

justcool:

Hence Christ said to the pharisees:
" The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17, 20 and 21).

Remember the pharisees are not believers, but yet the kingdom of God is within them. The kingdom of God is within every man, but only few listen to it. i have already explained this in my earlier post.

I appreciate your earlier explanation, but I'm persuaded that the traditional misconception that many people apply to Luke 17 is what you have given here. . . and in due course I shall show why that is not accurate.

Shalom.

@ pilgrim.1

pilgrim.1:


I am not sure that is what Scripture persuades me to believe. The idea that either Jesus or the Spirit is "a part" of God implodes into numerous questions that will be hard to defend from God's Word. Jesus is God and so is the Father and the Holy Spirit. I think the mistake many people make when trying to understand God is that when they speak of the Trinity, they are actually thinking of Tritheism.

The difference between the two concepts is that Trinity points to inseparableness of being (more properly "Triune" - we thus can distinguish between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; but we cannot separate them. On the other hand, it is tritheism that separates between them, and that is why many people have such a difficulty understanding the mystery of the Godhead.

My dear pilgrim you are right in the above(Although I don't know what you mean by[b]Tritheism[/b]) . The human words can never truly convey the concept of trinity which is divine. Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God the father are one and inseparable. Jesus is God, or God is in Jesus; The same is applicable with the Holy Spirit. God is one and not three. By using of the word "part of God" to describe Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I do not wish to infer that God is three. I don't believe in three separate Gods. There is only One GOD, which is in Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father.

Now about God or The Holy Spirit being inside believers.
I have studied the verses that you provided and I believe that when they said that the Holy Spirit will dwell in you, it is a figure of speech that should not be taken literarily(actualy). For example they say that God dwells in the church, this does not mean that God actually lives in that Church.

If God is inside you literally, then what is the difference between you and Jesus?

God cannot be inside or in a human being, only his power and his will and can be inside a person. when they say that God is in you, it is a figurative statement signifying that you have completely merged with the will of God and theirfore God works through you.

Our spirits are like temples of God. This means that we worship God by the activity of our spirit. Only the activity of our spirits can be genuine worship of God. It does not mean that God actually lives inside our spirit.

This idea of God dwelling inside humans sounds like the notion of some eastern mystics who claim that we are all parts of God. They claim that humans carry God within them. This is blasphemy and self worship.

What is inside us is spirit, not Divine or Divinity. Only God is divine. The human spirit can never become divine or carry even the smallest particle of Divinity within it. man is a creature and not part of the creator and can never carry the creator within him. Even the whole universe cannot carry God.

Thanks and remain blessed

Hi Pataki,

Glad to see you're here also. God bless you plenty.

Now to your questions:

Pataki:

Would you be so kind enough to explain further between Trinity and Tritheism?

Gladly.

By Trinity, I understand the concept of the Godhead more as a matter of the Triune God. The word Trinity connotes different things to different people, and yes I believe in the Trinity as well. However, I'm persuaded that the word "triune" is closer home than I can convey in sharing this matter. It denotes that God is one and indivisible. His unity is given to us throughout the Bible in terms of the Godhead - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - hence we read very early that God said: "Let US make man" (Gen 1:26).

This "US" is not a question of separate Persons doing different work - it simply means that God is tri-unity in a way that is distinct from how we understand numbers. A good reference is John 1:1 where we read that the Word is God Himself and yet "with" God.

Pataki:

While I clearly note from your quote above that trinity points to inseparableness of of God, I am also mindful to know that it is a Godhead that functions in three differen[/b]t or [b]separate categories of operation.

God works in many ways past our finding out (Job 9:10). But in His essential Being, He is inseparable, although the Son is distingusihed from the Father, as is the Spirit distinct from the Father and the Son. When we assume to try and "separate" the Person of God Himself into "modes", we come to a dead-end with the question the Lord Jesus asked the crowd in His day: "If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?" (Matt. 22:43-45). The point there that stunned the crowd was that there was only one LORD, but to the casual and careless reader who reads Psalm 110:1, there seems to be two Lords - an idea that is directly opposite to divien revelation. Any wonder why no one answered that question?

Pataki:

Would you therefore imply from your post that tritheism is a subset of TRINITY?

No, rather tritheism is a very different matter and bears no semblance to the Trinity. When scrutinized, tritheism is simply belief in 3 Gods - which is not what the Bible teaches.

@justcool,

justcool:

My dear pilgrim you are right in the above(Although I don't know what you mean by[b]Tritheism[/b])

A quote:

[list][li]"Tritheism is the belief that there are three distinct, powerful gods, who form a triad. Generally three gods are envisaged as having separate powers and separate supreme beings or spheres of influence but working together."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritheism[/li][/list]

So you see what I mean?

justcool:

The human words can never truly convey the concept of trinity which is divine.

You're absolutely right, bless you.

justcool:

Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God the father are one and inseparable.

Amen. Glory be to God.

justcool:

Jesus is God, or God is in Jesus; The same is applicable with the Holy Spirit. God is one and not three. By using of the word "part of God" to describe Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I do not wish to infer that God is three. I don't believe in three separate Gods. There is only One GOD, which is in Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father.

I understand you, bro.

justcool:

Now about God or The Holy Spirit being inside believers.
I have studied the verses that you provided and I believe that when they said that the Holy Spirit will dwell in you, it is a figure of speech that should not be taken literarily(actualy). For example they say that God dwells in the church, this does not mean that God actually lives in that Church.

Well, I don't think that the Lord Jesus spoke in a metaphorical sense when He declared the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer. It is a statement of fact as all the references will show.

However, that does not mean that He never spoke of the Spirit in figurative terms. Yes, He did - for instance, where He said that "out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (John 7:28)". This is not to be understood as a literal statement, but rather as a figure of speech, as explained in verse 39.

justcool:

If God is inside you literally, then what is the difference between you and Jesus?

The fact that God dwells in the believer by His Spirit does not mean that the believer automatically becomes Jesus. I was given a tape recently by a friend whose pastor taught that when we receive the Spirit, we become everything that Jesus ever was - the pastor went on to say that such a believer becomes the very Word of God! I listened patiently to the end of the tape, but sadly had to confess that the pastor was dead wrong!

When we receive the Spirit, we don't forget for a moment that only Jesus Christ alone is the Head of the Body, He alone is the Lord and Saviour, and He alone is the Lion of the tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5). If there was no difference between the believer and Jesus Christ, I wonder why there was found no man that was able to "open the book and to lose the seals thereof"!

justcool:

God cannot be inside or in a human being, only his power and his will and can be inside a person. when they say that God is in you, it is a figurative statement signifying that you have completely merged with the will of God and theirfore God works through you.

I can only state again that when you carefully study the Word, you will see that the Holy Spirit actually is declared to dwell inside the believer.

justcool:

This idea of God dwelling inside humans sounds like the notion of some eastern mystics who claim that we are all parts of God. They claim that humans carry God within them. This is blasphemy and self worship.

Christianity is not like some oriental mysticism. It is a reality that does not glorify itself in self-worship. The oriental mystics made the fatal mistake of stretching their concept of God's unity as a matter extending to matter itself - a form of hylotheism (the doctrine of belief that matter is God, or that there is no God except matter and the universe).

justcool:

What is inside us is spirit, not Divine or Divinity. Only God is divine. The human spirit can never become divine or carry even the smallest particle of Divinity within it.

Okay then. I only ask you to consider 2 Peter 1:4 --

[list][li]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.[/li][/list]

justcool:

man is a creature and not part of the creator and can never carry the creator within him.

Indeed, man is a creature. . . and only in the regenerated man can God dwell.

justcool:

Even the whole universe cannot carry God.

True, but God is pleased to dwell in man by His ubiquitousSpirit.

justcool:

Thanks and remain blessed

You too, bro.

@Queenisha,

Please don't be upset with me. I didn't try to ignore your warm welcome. Infact, I first thot of nwando or babyosisi when I read of Queenisha. . . maybe I'm wrong, but that's because I was long too gone from the forum to have caught up on updates. As it is, I missed you as well and I was really warmed by your love and prayers.

Heaven and hell are right here, on earth. It is what we make it. I think when a person dies their spirit remains on earth until Jesus comes

Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. John 3:3. The Kingdom of God in not a place. its more like God's sovereignty. Read Matt 12:28

Peace

@pilgrim 1
Thanks for your reply.

If you take those verses (the verses that you posted) literally, then what do you make of this verse: John
:56

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him."
(New American standard Bible)

"Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood live in me, and I live in them."
(Gods words Translation Bible)

"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him."
(King James Version)

If you believe that God literalily lives in the believers, then do you also believe that believers literally live in God? You know that they don't. Lets take you for example: You are a believer right? Do you literally live in God? I know that the answer is no because you literally live in London.

If some believers literally live on earth(London, Nigeria, USA, and etc) does it means that the verse above is false? NO! The verse can only be true when you consider the expression "live in me" to be a metaphorical expression.

To Live in Christ, God or the Holy Spirit is to allow the words of Christ to becoming living within you, i.e. to base your whole life in the sense of His words. To stay with the word irrespective of the situation, to express it with every fiber of your being, to express it in your actions, words and dead.

By expressing the word of Christ with all your being, you express Christ too. Because His words and Him are inseparable, i.e His words is the TRUTH so is Him. Christ is the TRUTH and the words that He gave mankind is also the TRUTH. Thus figuratively speaking, He gave mankind Himself or a part of Himself. To allow this word into your heart and practice it is to live in Christ, and also to let live Him in you.

In summery: God, Jesus(Christ), and the Holy Spirit cannot live inside every believer. No human being irrespective of his belief can carry a part of God literally within him. This is like saying that believers are part Gods. NO!
Man can only carry the words of Christ living within him. Christ's words are really living!
By Living in the words of Jesus, you figuratively live in Jesus; and by carring his words living within you(conviction), you figuratively have Jesus living in you.

It is true that God is omnipresent. Omnipresence means that God is accessible or reachable from any where. God is reachable from earth, even from hell. Anybody can reach God through a pure prayer. But this does not mean that God is literally on earth and on hell. Like I said earlier, the whole universe cannot carry God, indeed the earth will simply incinerate in God's presence.

But His power and His will is every where in His creation, in this also lies His omnipresence. Nothing can escape His will, It guides and controls all things.  Even the laws of nature are expressions of His will. Every power belong to Him. Only Him can produce power, and this power reaches everywhere in creation. Every creature is welcome to use this power, but each creature bears the responsibility for what he(the creature) does with the power. On this power do all creatures depend. This power can be found literally everywhere. You use it everyday, and you see it everyday, i.e you see the application of it.

The Bible is a spiritual book filled with figurative, pictorial, and metaphorical language.  He who tries to take it literilly is bound to make mistakes. Only the spirit can sense the Truth that is in some passages of the Bible, an intellectual interpretation of the Bible is totally wrong. The intellect cannot sense what is spiritual.

Thanks and remain blessed!

@justcool,

I understand the difficulty that many people struggle with on issues like this. Before I became a Christian, it seemed to me that the idea of God living in someone was a blasphemy (try and engage a muslim about such and you'll see what I mean). But my whole life changed when I actually experienced for myself what it means to have the Spirit of God living in me.

justcool:

If you take those verses (the verses that you posted) literally, then what do you make of this verse: John
:56

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him."
(New American standard Bible)

"Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood live in me, and I live in them."
(Gods words Translation Bible)

"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him."
(King James Version)

If you believe that God literalily lives in the believers, then do you also believe that believers literally live in God? You know that they don't. Lets take you for example: You are a believer right? Do you literally live in God? I know that the answer is no because you literally live in London.

Of course, there is a difference in Biblical expressions regarding our relationship with God, when properly understood in their contexts. The verses you cited are examples of "fellowship", however, and the ones I gave earlier refer to "residency" of the Spirit of God in believers. When studied in their contexts, it is not difficult to see.

Let me give you another example of contextual meanings of words in the NT using the term "baptism". We know that it has at least 4 different meanings:

[list][list][li]suffering - "But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!" [Luke 12:50]"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]water baptism - "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." [Mark 1:4]"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Spirit baptism - "I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost." [Mark 1:8]"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]members of the Body - "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." [1 Corinthians 12:13]"[/li][/list][/list]

As is clear above, the common denominator is the concept of baptism, and that word has several connotations and not just a linear idea.

So it is with the word "dwelling" - one can understand when it refers to mutual fellowship that believers have with the Lord (as in the examples you gave in your reply). However, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer is quite a different matter altogether and refers to the Spirit taking residency and living within the believer! There is no going round this very fact, and I'll just quote the references again to demonstrate the point of this meaning:

[list][list][li]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? [1 Corinthians 3:16]"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [1 Corinthians 6:19]"[/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us. [2 Timothy 1:14]"[/li][/list][/list]

There is no other way to understand this fact that the Holy Spirit clearly says that He dwells within the believer. This is not metaphorical language, but a divine statement of fact.

Now let me move on quickly through the other part of your concerns:

justcool:

In summery: God, Jesus(Christ), and the Holy Spirit cannot live inside every believer.

On the contrary, the Word of God categorically says that God dwells inside the believer through His Holy Spirit.

justcool:

No human being irrespective of his belief can carry a part of God literally within him.

Throughout the Bible, the fact is stated repeatedly that the Spirit of God dwells in those He called to serve and have fellowship with Him.

justcool:

This is like saying that believers are part Gods. NO!

The Bible did not lead us to that inference.

justcool:

Man can only carry the words of Christ living within him. Christ's words are really living!

If Christ's words are really living (as surely they are), then why is it difficult to believe simply what the same words teach about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer?

justcool:

By Living in the words of Jesus, you figuratively live in Jesus; and by carring his words living within you(conviction), you figuratively have Jesus living in you.

That does not deflate the fact that God's Spirit lives in us - He said so, He meant us to understand it so, there are no ambiguities in the references where He declared them as such, and the contextual meanings are not difficult to see.

justcool:

It is true that God is omnipresent. Omnipresence means that God is accessible or reachable from any where. God is reachable from earth, even from hell. Anybody can reach God through a pure prayer. But this does not mean that God is literally on earth and on hell. Like I said earlier, the whole universe cannot carry God, indeed the earth will simply incinerate in God's presence.

This is only looking at it from a human point of view. Indeed God can be reached through prayer. But what about God reaching out to us?

You see, the religions of the world are stuck with the same concept of man trying to reach God. The understanding that God has come to reach man is difficult for them to grasp, and even blasphemous for them to read that God lives within the believer.

justcool:

But His power and His will is every where in His creation, in this also lies His omnipresence. Nothing can escape His will, It guides and controls all things. Even the laws of nature are expressions of His will. Every power belong to Him. Only Him can produce power, and this power reaches everywhere in creation. Every creature is welcome to use this power, but each creature bears the responsibility for what he(the creature) does with the power. On this power do all creatures depend. This power can be found literally everywhere. You use it everyday, and you see it everyday, i.e you see the application of it.

There is a difference between living in God's power and God Himself living in man. Both sides of that truth are revaled in Scripture; unfortunately, man often struggles with the second part of that truth while assuming it is so easy to handle the first part.

justcool:

The Bible is a spiritual book filled with figurative, pictorial, and metaphorical language. He who tries to take it literilly is bound to make mistakes.

Dear justcool, this is where the problem truly is! The Bible has metaphors, but it is also replete with literal truths to be believed in. Is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ a literal truth? Certainly. Are the miracles of Jesus literal as well? You bet they are! Is the Gospel to be believed literally? Is the return of Jesus Christ to the earth ("rapture" a literal truth? Most certainly!

So, if I take the above examples in a literal sense, would my mistakes by multiplied? It would be interesting to see how so.

justcool:

Only the spirit can sense the Truth that is in some passages of the Bible, an intellectual interpretation of the Bible is totally wrong. The intellect cannot sense what is spiritual.

This is another problem with so many believers. Dear brother, God who gave you your intellect expects you to use it! Why would God Himself invite us to "reason together" (Isaiah 1:18) if He never gave man his intellect. . . or if He expected us to bury it when He speaks to us?

No. Rather God expects us to engage every faculty of our being in our spiritual living - the heart, soul, mind and strength (Mark 12:30). In my former religion, you're not expected to ask questions. But living in the reality of Christ is truly satisfying - because God invites and welcomes our questions, as well as provides the answers.

justcool:

Thanks and remain blessed!

God bless you.