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What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by lekanakel(m): 11:10am On Sep 26, 2008
I was going through a thread on the forum where i heard some people saying something wrong about TMC. Please can we elaborate what is wrong with this group?

The thread is
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-174085.0.html

1 Like

Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by codebase: 4:10pm On Sep 26, 2008


The Ruling Concerning Multiple Groups
and Parties

Fataawaa by: by:

Shaykh ’Abdul-’Azeez Ibn ’Abdullaah Ibn Baaz
Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud-Deen al-Albaanee
Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Saalih al-’Uthaymeen

[al-Ibaanah] Source :TROID Publications

THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH IBN BAAZ:

[Q]: What is the obligation upon the Muslim scholars with regards to the large number of jam’iyyaat (societies) and jamaa’aat (parties) in the Islaamic lands and elsewhere, and with regards to the differences that exist between them, to the point that each group declares others to be misguided. Do you not see that it is befitting to enter into explaining the like of this manner, and to clarify the truth concerning their differences, for fear that these differences will increase and lead to evil consequences for the Muslims?

[A]: Our Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made clear to us a single way which it is obligatory upon the Muslims to follow and traverse, and that is the Straight Path of Allaah and the methodology of His upright Religion. Allaah - the Most High - said:

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path. This has He ordained for you, that you may become pious." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]

Just as the Lord of Might and Majesty warned the Ummah (nation) of Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) against splitting and disunity, since that is one of the greatest causes of failure and of the enemy taking control, as occurs in the statement of Allaah - the mighty and Majestic - :

"And hold fast altogether to the rope of Allaah and do not be divided." [Soorah Aali ’Imraan 3:101]

And His - the Most High - saying:

"He has ordained for you the same religion which He ordained for Nooh, and that which We revealed to you, and that which We ordained for Ibraaheem, Moosaa and ’Eesaa saying that you should establish the religion by doing that which you are ordered with, and make no divisions in it. Intolerable for the Pagans is that to which you call them." [Sooratush-Shooraa 42:13]

So this is a divine call to unity and for hearts to be harmonized. And in any Islaamic land, if there are many groups for the purpose of good, aid, cooperating in righteousness and piety between the Muslims - without there being differences between the desires of the companions and followers - then this is good, is a blessing, and produces great benefit.

However, if each of them declare others to be misguided and attack their actions, then this harm is very great and its evil consequences are very serious. Then what is obligatory upon the Muslims is to clarify the true state of affairs and to discuss with each group and sincerely advise all of them that they should proceed upon the way laid down by Allaah upon His servants, and upon that which our Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) called to. Then those who ignore this, or continue in their stubbornness, due to personal benefit or goal - known only to Allaah - then what is obligatory upon those who know the reality is to make this known about them and to warn against them, so that the people may avoid their path, and that those who do not know the reality of their affair may not fall into it and be led astray, and that they are not turned away from the Straight Path which Allaah ordered that we follow, as occurs in His - the Mighty and Majestic - saying:

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path. This has He ordained for you that you may become pious." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]

And from that which there is no doubt about is that the multitude of sects and groups in the Islaamic society is, firstly something desired by Shaytaan, and secondly something desired by the enemies of Islaam from amongst mankind. Since agreement and unification of the Muslims and their being aware of the dangers that threaten them and their ’aqeedah (beliefs), will make them active in refuting and rebutting it, and acting in a unified manner for the benefit of the Muslims, thereby repelling the danger from their Religion, their lands and their brothers. And this is something which the enemies - from amongst mankind and jinn - are not pleased with. Therefore, they are very eager to split-up the Muslims, destroy their unity and to sow the seeds to enmity and discord between them. We ask Allaah that He unites the Muslims upon the truth and that He removes from their society every type of misguidance and every cause of discord. Indeed He is the One Who is able to do that, and He is the one having full power over it. [1]

THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH AL-ALBAANEE:

[Q]: What is the Sharee’ah ruling concerning these numerous Islaamic groups, parties and organizations which differ amongst themselves with regards to their minhaaj (methodology), their modes of operations, their da’wah (call), their ’aqeedah (beliefs) and the foundations upon which they are based? Especially when the group of truth is a single one as is proven in the hadeeth.

[A]: We have spoken much about the answer to this question, therefore we shall be brief whilst speaking about it. So we say: It will not be hidden from any Muslim who has knowledge of the Book and the Sunnah, and the which the Salafus-Saalih (may Allaah be pleased with them all) were upon, that firstly; formation of parties and groups with differing thought, and secondly; differing in minhaaj (methodology), is not from Islaam at all. Rather it is from what our Lord - the Mighty and Majestic - has actually forbidden, in more than one aayah (verse) from the Noble Qur‘aan. From this is His - the Most High - saying:

"And do not be like those who worship others besides Allaah - those who split up their religion and become sects. Each party rejoicing only in that which is with them." [Soorah Room 30:31] And our Lord - the Mighty and Majestic - also says:

"And if your Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind a single nation. But they will not cease to differ, except upon those whom your Lord has bestowed Mercy." [Soorah Hood 11:118-119]

So Allaah - the Most Blessed, the Most High - made exempted from this differing and this disagreement - a differing which must occur by Allaah’s creational Decree, but not as something which He is pleased with or that He desires from us - that sect upon which He has bestowed His Mercy, as occurs in His saying:

"…except upon those whom your Lord has bestowed His Mercy."

And there is not doubt whatsoever, that any group that has a purity of intention for Allaah, and earnestly desire to be from among that nation which is exempted from this differing; and upon whom Allaah has bestowed His Mercy, then there is no way to practically reach and attain this in the Islaamic societies, except by returning to the Book and to the Sunnah of the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and to what our Salafus-Saalih (may Allaah be pleased with them all) were upon.

And the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made clear the manhaj (methodology) and correct way, in many authentic ahaadeeth: From the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) that he drew a straight line upon the ground, and drew short lines around the straight line. The he recited the statement of Allaah - the Most High - :

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]

He then pointed with his finger to the straight line and that this is the Straight Path of Allaah. Then he pointed to the other lines away from the Straight Path and said:

"At the head of each of these other paths, there is a devil calling the people to it." [2]

And there is no doubt that these short paths are those that represent the many parties and groups. Therefore, what is obligatory upon every Muslim who truly desires to be from al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect) is that he proceeds upon the Straight Path - neither turning to its left or its right. And there is no party which is successful, except the Party of Allaah, about which the noble Qur‘aan mentions to us:

"Indeed it is the Party of Allaah who are successful." [Sooratul-Mujaadilah 58:22]

Therefore, every party which is not the party of Allaah is only from the party of Shaytaan and not from the party of ar-Rahmaan (the Most Merciful). And there is also no doubt at all, that proceeding upon the Straight Path requires knowledge of it, and this cannot be attained by mere organization and mere formation of parties - that desire to be upon true Islaam, but not truly understanding what was the true Islaam that Allaah - the Most Blessed, the Most High - sent down upon the heart of Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). And the sign of the Saved-Sect was clearly stated by the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), when he was asked about it - so he said:

"It is that which I and my Companions are upon." [3]

So this hadeeth indicates to the one eagerly seeking knowledge of the Straight Path of Allaah, that one must have knowledge of two extremely important matters: Firstly: That which the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) was upon. Secondly: That which his Companions (radiyallaahu ’anhum) were upon. This is because the noble Companions were the ones who transmitted the guidance of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and his Sunnah to us, and secondly that they were the ones who best followed his Sunnah in practice. So since this is the case, it is not therefore possible for us to have a correct understanding of the Prophet's Sunnah, except by way of his Companions… Thus, attaining a correct understanding of Islaam cannot be possible except through knowing the life examples of the Companions and how they followed this great Islaam, which they took from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) - either from his sayings, actions, or tacit approvals.

Therefore, we believe with certainty, that every group that does not establish itself upon the foundation of the Book and the Sunnah and the manhaj (methodology) of the Salafus-Saalih - having extensively and comprehensively studied the rulings of Islaam, the large and the small, the principles and the branches - then this group will not be from the Saved-Sect; the Sect which proceeds upon the Straight Path which was indicated by the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) in the authentic hadeeth.

And if we imagined that there are separate groups in the Islaamic lands, upon this manhaj (methodology), then they will not be considered as being parties, rather they are a single group, with a single manhaj and its path is a single one. Though they are separated by land, they are not, however, separated in thoughts, ’aqeedah (beliefs), or manhaj. Rather this separation is only due to a physical separation in land - as opposed to the various groups and parties, which may even be in a single land, yet despite this, each party is pleased only with that which it possesses. As for these types of parties, we do not believe that they are upon the Straight Path. Rather we state with certainty, that they are upon those paths - at the head of each one is a devil calling the people to it. And hopefully this contains an answer for what has preceded. [4]

THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH IBNUL-’UTHAYMEEN:

[Q]: Are there any texts from the Book of Allaah, or from the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) which contain an allowance of multiple groups and parties or al-Ikhwaan?

[A]: I say: There is not either in the Book or the Sunnah that which allows multiple groups and parties. Rather, there is in the Book and the Sunnah that which censures this. Allaah - the Most High - said:

"Verily those who split up their Religion and become sects, you have no concern with them in the least. Their affair is with Allaah who will tell them about what they used to do." [Sooratul An’aam 6:159]

Allaah - the Most High - said:

"Each sect rejoicing in that which is with itself." [Sooratur-Room 30:32]

And there is no doubt that these parties are contrary to what Allaah ordered. Rather what Allaah has ordered and encouraged is in His saying:

"And indeed, this Ummah of yours is one Ummah and I am your Lord, so fear and obey Me." [Sooratul-Mu‘minoon 23:52]

And some people say: It s not possible for the da’wah (call) to be strong unless it is done within the framework of a party! We say to that: This is incorrect! Rather the da’wah will be strong whenever the person is under the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) - following the narrations of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and that of his Companions. [5]

Footnotes:

[1] Majmoo’ Fataawaa wal-Maqaalaatul-Mutanawwi‘ah (5/202-204).

[2] Hasan: Related by Ahmad (1/435) and an-Nisaa‘ee (7/49).

[3] Hasan: Related by at-Tirmidthee (5/26).

[4] Fataawaa Shaykh al-Albaanee (p. 106-114).

[5] From a cassette entitled Majmoo’ Kalaamul-’Ulamaa fee ’Abdur-Rahmaan ’Abdul-Khaaliq (side two).

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Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by babs787(m): 8:41pm On Sep 27, 2008
@Codebase



The Ruling Concerning Multiple Groups
and Parties

Fataawaa by: by:

Shaykh ’Abdul-’Azeez Ibn ’Abdullaah Ibn Baaz
Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud-Deen al-Albaanee
Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Saalih al-’Uthaymeen

[al-Ibaanah] Source :TROID Publications


One thing I noticed about you that you so much think that you are the ONLY THAT reads Albani or support his teaching as we progress, you would understand thigs you seemed not to.

THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH IBN BAAZ:
[Q]: What is the obligation upon the Muslim scholars with regards to the large number of jam’iyyaat (societies) and jamaa’aat (parties) in the Islaamic lands and elsewhere, and with regards to the differences that exist between them, to the point that each group declares others to be misguided. Do you not see that it is befitting to enter into explaining the like of this manner, and to clarify the truth concerning their differences, for fear that these differences will increase and lead to evil consequences for the Muslims?

Let me ask you one thing, why do Muslims attend societies and why do we have societies?

[A]: Our Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made clear to us a single way which it is obligatory upon the Muslims to follow and traverse, and that is the Straight Path of Allaah and the methodology of His upright Religion. Allaah - the Most High - said:

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path. This has He ordained for you, that you may become pious." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]

Just as the Lord of Might and Majesty warned the Ummah (nation) of Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) against splitting and disunity, since that is one of the greatest causes of failure and of the enemy taking control, as occurs in the statement of Allaah - the mighty and Majestic - :

"And hold fast altogether to the rope of Allaah and do not be divided." [Soorah Aali ’Imraan 3:101]

And His - the Most High - saying:

"He has ordained for you the same religion which He ordained for Nooh, and that which We revealed to you, and that which We ordained for Ibraaheem, Moosaa and ’Eesaa saying that you should establish the religion by doing that which you are ordered with, and make no divisions in it. Intolerable for the Pagans is that to which you call them." [Sooratush-Shooraa 42:13]

Brother, I know these verses and do they relate with TMC since you lacked understanding of it?

So this is a divine call to unity and for hearts to be harmonized. And in any Islaamic land, if there are many groups for the purpose of good, aid, cooperating in righteousness and piety between the Muslims - without there being differences between the desires of the companions and followers - then this is good, is a blessing, and produces great benefit.


Did you understand your post. How could you be shooting yourself in the leg. The purpoe of your post is to castigate TMC but you have not been able to do that intelligently. Now when I speak, I do not speak based on society but based on the Quran, Hadith and Sunnah. Just because am a TMC doesnt mean that my knowledge is limited to it alone. I do attend lectures organised by non TMC and read Texts of non TMC. So it is you that needs to understand yourself very well before coming here to level allegation.


However, if each of them declare others to be misguided and attack their actions, then this harm is very great and its evil consequences are very serious. Then what is obligatory upon the Muslims is to clarify the true state of affairs and to discuss with each group and sincerely advise all of them that they should proceed upon the way laid down by Allaah upon His servants, and upon that which our Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) called to. Then those who ignore this, or continue in their stubbornness, due to personal benefit or goal - known only to Allaah - then what is obligatory upon those who know the reality is to make this known about them and to warn against them, so that the people may avoid their path, and that those who do not know the reality of their affair may not fall into it and be led astray, and that they are not turned away from the Straight Path which Allaah ordered that we follow, as occurs in His - the Mighty and Majestic - saying:

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path. This has He ordained for you that you may become pious." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]

And from that which there is no doubt about is that the multitude of sects and groups in the Islaamic society is, firstly something desired by Shaytaan, and secondly something desired by the enemies of Islaam from amongst mankind. Since agreement and unification of the Muslims and their being aware of the dangers that threaten them and their ’aqeedah (beliefs), will make them active in refuting and rebutting it, and acting in a unified manner for the benefit of the Muslims, thereby repelling the danger from their Religion, their lands and their brothers. And this is something which the enemies - from amongst mankind and jinn - are not pleased with. Therefore, they are very eager to split-up the Muslims, destroy their unity and to sow the seeds to enmity and discord between them. We ask Allaah that He unites the Muslims upon the truth and that He removes from their society every type of misguidance and every cause of discord. Indeed He is the One Who is able to do that, and He is the one having full power over it. [1]

THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH AL-ALBAANEE:

[Q]: What is the Sharee’ah ruling concerning these numerous Islaamic groups, parties and organizations which differ amongst themselves with regards to their minhaaj (methodology), their modes of operations, their da’wah (call), their ’aqeedah (beliefs) and the foundations upon which they are based? Especially when the group of truth is a single one as is proven in the hadeeth.

[A]: We have spoken much about the answer to this question, therefore we shall be brief whilst speaking about it. So we say: It will not be hidden from any Muslim who has knowledge of the Book and the Sunnah, and the which the Salafus-Saalih (may Allaah be pleased with them all) were upon, that firstly; formation of parties and groups with differing thought, and secondly; differing in minhaaj (methodology), is not from Islaam at all. Rather it is from what our Lord - the Mighty and Majestic - has actually forbidden, in more than one aayah (verse) from the Noble Qur‘aan. From this is His - the Most High - saying:

"And do not be like those who worship others besides Allaah - those who split up their religion and become sects. Each party rejoicing only in that which is with them." [Soorah Room 30:31] And our Lord - the Mighty and Majestic - also says:

"And if your Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind a single nation. But they will not cease to differ, except upon those whom your Lord has bestowed Mercy." [Soorah Hood 11:118-119]

So Allaah - the Most Blessed, the Most High - made exempted from this differing and this disagreement - a differing which must occur by Allaah’s creational Decree, but not as something which He is pleased with or that He desires from us - that sect upon which He has bestowed His Mercy, as occurs in His saying:

"…except upon those whom your Lord has bestowed His Mercy."

And there is not doubt whatsoever, that any group that has a purity of intention for Allaah, and earnestly desire to be from among that nation which is exempted from this differing; and upon whom Allaah has bestowed His Mercy, then there is no way to practically reach and attain this in the Islaamic societies, except by returning to the Book and to the Sunnah of the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and to what our Salafus-Saalih (may Allaah be pleased with them all) were upon.

And the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made clear the manhaj (methodology) and correct way, in many authentic ahaadeeth: From the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) that he drew a straight line upon the ground, and drew short lines around the straight line. The he recited the statement of Allaah - the Most High - :

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]

He then pointed with his finger to the straight line and that this is the Straight Path of Allaah. Then he pointed to the other lines away from the Straight Path and said:

"At the head of each of these other paths, there is a devil calling the people to it." [2]

And there is no doubt that these short paths are those that represent the many parties and groups. Therefore, what is obligatory upon every Muslim who truly desires to be from al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect) is that he proceeds upon the Straight Path - neither turning to its left or its right. And there is no party which is successful, except the Party of Allaah, about which the noble Qur‘aan mentions to us:

"Indeed it is the Party of Allaah who are successful." [Sooratul-Mujaadilah 58:22]

Therefore, every party which is not the party of Allaah is only from the party of Shaytaan and not from the party of ar-Rahmaan (the Most Merciful). And there is also no doubt at all, that proceeding upon the Straight Path requires knowledge of it, and this cannot be attained by mere organization and mere formation of parties - that desire to be upon true Islaam, but not truly understanding what was the true Islaam that Allaah - the Most Blessed, the Most High - sent down upon the heart of Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). And the sign of the Saved-Sect was clearly stated by the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), when he was asked about it - so he said:

"It is that which I and my Companions are upon." [3]

So this hadeeth indicates to the one eagerly seeking knowledge of the Straight Path of Allaah, that one must have knowledge of two extremely important matters: Firstly: That which the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) was upon. Secondly: That which his Companions (radiyallaahu ’anhum) were upon. This is because the noble Companions were the ones who transmitted the guidance of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and his Sunnah to us, and secondly that they were the ones who best followed his Sunnah in practice. So since this is the case, it is not therefore possible for us to have a correct understanding of the Prophet's Sunnah, except by way of his Companions… Thus, attaining a correct understanding of Islaam cannot be possible except through knowing the life examples of the Companions and how they followed this great Islaam, which they took from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) - either from his sayings, actions, or tacit approvals.

Therefore, we believe with certainty, that every group that does not establish itself upon the foundation of the Book and the Sunnah and the manhaj (methodology) of the Salafus-Saalih - having extensively and comprehensively studied the rulings of Islaam, the large and the small, the principles and the branches - then this group will not be from the Saved-Sect; the Sect which proceeds upon the Straight Path which was indicated by the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) in the authentic hadeeth.

And if we imagined that there are separate groups in the Islaamic lands, upon this manhaj (methodology), then they will not be considered as being parties, rather they are a single group, with a single manhaj and its path is a single one. Though they are separated by land, they are not, however, separated in thoughts, ’aqeedah (beliefs), or manhaj. Rather this separation is only due to a physical separation in land - as opposed to the various groups and parties, which may even be in a single land, yet despite this, each party is pleased only with that which it possesses. As for these types of parties, we do not believe that they are upon the Straight Path. Rather we state with certainty, that they are upon those paths - at the head of each one is a devil calling the people to it. And hopefully this contains an answer for what has preceded. [4]

THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH IBNUL-’UTHAYMEEN:

[Q]: Are there any texts from the Book of Allaah, or from the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) which contain an allowance of multiple groups and parties or al-Ikhwaan?

[A]: I say: There is not either in the Book or the Sunnah that which allows multiple groups and parties. Rather, there is in the Book and the Sunnah that which censures this. Allaah - the Most High - said:

"Verily those who split up their Religion and become sects, you have no concern with them in the least. Their affair is with Allaah who will tell them about what they used to do." [Sooratul An’aam 6:159]

Allaah - the Most High - said:

"Each sect rejoicing in that which is with itself." [Sooratur-Room 30:32]

And there is no doubt that these parties are contrary to what Allaah ordered. Rather what Allaah has ordered and encouraged is in His saying:

"And indeed, this Ummah of yours is one Ummah and I am your Lord, so fear and obey Me." [Sooratul-Mu‘minoon 23:52]

And some people say: It s not possible for the da’wah (call) to be strong unless it is done within the framework of a party! We say to that: This is incorrect! Rather the da’wah will be strong whenever the person is under the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) - following the narrations of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and that of his Companions. [5]

Footnotes:

[1] Majmoo’ Fataawaa wal-Maqaalaatul-Mutanawwi‘ah (5/202-204).

[2] Hasan: Related by Ahmad (1/435) and an-Nisaa‘ee (7/49).

[3] Hasan: Related by at-Tirmidthee (5/26).

[4] Fataawaa Shaykh al-Albaanee (p. 106-114).

[5] From a cassette entitled Majmoo’ Kalaamul-’Ulamaa fee ’Abdur-Rahmaan ’Abdul-Khaaliq (side two).


I felt like that attending to your posts paragraph by paragraph but felt that it would be like flogging a dead horse.

Now:

1. What do you understand by a sect?

2. What do you understand by a society?

3. Why do people attends societies?

4. Lastly, how does TMC goes against the Quran, Hadith and Sunnah.

Note: You have not been able to support your claims but have been making denials. When you are making denials or providing rebuttal, you should table your proof be it from the Quran, Hadith or Sunnah and we look into it.

Maa Salam.
Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by babs787(m): 8:45pm On Sep 27, 2008
@Codebase

When I am less busy, I will still provide additional input to your post but you could answer my questions and others would follow.
Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by babs787(m): 3:25pm On Sep 28, 2008
@Codebase


@Zayhal

Your comment would be appreciated as well. You claimed that TMC uses fabricated Hadith and thank God you admitted that they follow Sunnah and Hadith strictly. I like people that give me evidence, fact and not just levelling anything against me that couldnt be verified. I will appreciate you serving me fabricated hadiths and we looked at it together.


Over to Codebase

In continuation of your post, Yes I remember now, as we progress, we will look into salafist as a group and it seems in one of your post you kicked against joining any group. Coming to that later.


However, if each of them declare others to be misguided and attack their actions, then this harm is very great and its evil consequences are very serious. Then what is obligatory upon the Muslims is to clarify the true state of affairs and to discuss with each group and sincerely advise all of them that they should proceed upon the way laid down by Allaah upon His servants, and upon that which our Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) called to. Then those who ignore this, or continue in their stubbornness, due to personal benefit or goal - known only to Allaah - then what is obligatory upon those who know the reality is to make this known about them and to warn against them, so that the people may avoid their path, and that those who do not know the reality of their affair may not fall into it and be led astray, and that they are not turned away from the Straight Path which Allaah ordered that we follow, as occurs in His - the Mighty and Majestic - saying:

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path. This has He ordained for you that you may become pious." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]


Please, how does TMC' teachings goes against Sunnah and Hadith? I need fact please from Quran, Hadith and Sunnah of the holy prophet (saw)


And from that which there is no doubt about is that the multitude of sects and groups in the Islaamic society is, firstly something desired by Shaytaan, and secondly something desired by the enemies of Islaam from amongst mankind. Since agreement and unification of the Muslims and their being aware of the dangers that threaten them and their ’aqeedah (beliefs), will make them active in refuting and rebutting it, and acting in a unified manner for the benefit of the Muslims, thereby repelling the danger from their Religion, their lands and their brothers. And this is something which the enemies - from amongst mankind and jinn - are not pleased with. Therefore, they are very eager to split-up the Muslims, destroy their unity and to sow the seeds to enmity and discord between them. We ask Allaah that He unites the Muslims upon the truth and that He removes from their society every type of misguidance and every cause of discord. Indeed He is the One Who is able to do that, and He is the one having full power over it. [1]


Hope you know that SALAFIST IS A GROUP AS WELL AND SHOULD BELONG to what you posted up.

One thing I like about you is that, you are very quick as quoting from books by SALAFIST having forgotten or never have read about SALAFIST, DIFFERENT GROUPS, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, DIFFERENT SALAFIST IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

Codebase, you should know your history so as not to shoot yourself i nthe leg as we proceed.


THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH AL-ALBAANEE:
[Q]: What is the Sharee’ah ruling concerning these numerous Islaamic groups, parties and organizations which differ amongst themselves with regards to their minhaaj (methodology), their modes of operations, their da’wah (call), their ’aqeedah (beliefs) and the foundations upon which they are based? Especially when the group of truth is a single one as is proven in the hadeeth.

[A]: We have spoken much about the answer to this question, therefore we shall be brief whilst speaking about it. So we say: It will not be hidden from any Muslim who has knowledge of the Book and the Sunnah, and the which the Salafus-Saalih (may Allaah be pleased with them all) were upon, that firstly; formation of parties and groups with differing thought, and secondly; differing in minhaaj (methodology), is not from Islaam at all. Rather it is from what our Lord - the Mighty and Majestic - has actually forbidden, in more than one aayah (verse) from the Noble Qur‘aan. From this is His - the Most High - saying:

"And do not be like those who worship others besides Allaah - those who split up their religion and become sects. Each party rejoicing only in that which is with them." [Soorah Room 30:31] And our Lord - the Mighty and Majestic - also says:

"And if your Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind a single nation. But they will not cease to differ, except upon those whom your Lord has bestowed Mercy." [Soorah Hood 11:118-119]

So Allaah - the Most Blessed, the Most High - made exempted from this differing and this disagreement - a differing which must occur by Allaah’s creational Decree, but not as something which He is pleased with or that He desires from us - that sect upon which He has bestowed His Mercy, as occurs in His saying:

"…except upon those whom your Lord has bestowed His Mercy."

Hey, hold it there please. I didnt see any fatwa in your quote Above.


And there is not doubt whatsoever, that any group that has a purity of intention for Allaah, and earnestly desire to be from among that nation which is exempted from this differing; and upon whom Allaah has bestowed His Mercy, then there is no way to practically reach and attain this in the Islaamic societies, except by returning to the Book and to the Sunnah of the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and to what our Salafus-Saalih (may Allaah be pleased with them all) were upon.

And the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) made clear the manhaj (methodology) and correct way, in many authentic ahaadeeth: From the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) that he drew a straight line upon the ground, and drew short lines around the straight line. The he recited the statement of Allaah - the Most High - :

"And this is My Straight Path, so follow it, and do not follow other paths that will separate you from His Path." [Sooratul-An’aam 6:153]

He then pointed with his finger to the straight line and that this is the Straight Path of Allaah. Then he pointed to the other lines away from the Straight Path and said:

"At the head of each of these other paths, there is a devil calling the people to it." [2]

Ok. Let us view it this way, who is following the true path and funy enough, how you conclude that you are the following the true path and sadlt calling your fellow an inmate of hell fire and it seems you havent read hadith to know the implication of calling a muslim an inmate if hell fire. Back to the issue, how does TMC goes contrary to prophet's teaching.


And there is no doubt that these short paths are those that represent the many parties and groups. Therefore, what is obligatory upon every Muslim who truly desires to be from al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect) is that he proceeds upon the Straight Path - neither turning to its left or its right. And there is no party which is successful, except the Party of Allaah, about which the noble Qur‘aan mentions to us:

"Indeed it is the Party of Allaah who are successful." [Sooratul-Mujaadilah 58:22]

Therefore, every party which is not the party of Allaah is only from the party of Shaytaan and not from the party of ar-Rahmaan (the Most Merciful). And there is also no doubt at all, that proceeding upon the Straight Path requires knowledge of it, and this cannot be attained by mere organization and mere formation of parties - that desire to be upon true Islaam, but not truly understanding what was the true Islaam that Allaah - the Most Blessed, the Most High - sent down upon the heart of Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). And the sign of the Saved-Sect was clearly stated by the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), when he was asked about it - so he said:

"It is that which I and my Companions are upon." [3]


Codebase, it is becoming glaring that you dont know about TMC hence your use of hadith wrongly. You should always have it at the back of your mind that SALAFIST GROUP is a group as well so when applying the above quote of yours, it means that they are on the other side.


So this hadeeth indicates to the one eagerly seeking knowledge of the Straight Path of Allaah, that one must have knowledge of two extremely important matters: Firstly: That which the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) was upon. Secondly: That which his Companions (radiyallaahu ’anhum) were upon. This is because the noble Companions were the ones who transmitted the guidance of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and his Sunnah to us, and secondly that they were the ones who best followed his Sunnah in practice. So since this is the case, it is not therefore possible for us to have a correct understanding of the Prophet's Sunnah, except by way of his Companions… Thus, attaining a correct understanding of Islaam cannot be possible except through knowing the life examples of the Companions and how they followed this great Islaam, which they took from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) - either from his sayings, actions, or tacit approvals.


Oh brother, your limited Islamic knowledge is very glaring. Firstly, he who goes against the Quran, Hadith and Sunnah of the Holy prophet (saw) has chosen another path different from the one the earlier prophets followed.

Secondly, he who does not follow his companions thereby devising their own modus operandi has gone astray.

Having said the above, how does TMC as a group goes against Sunnah, Haduth of the holy prophet (saw)?


Therefore, we believe with certainty, that every group that does not establish itself upon the foundation of the Book and the Sunnah and the manhaj (methodology) of the Salafus-Saalih - having extensively and comprehensively studied the rulings of Islaam, the large and the small, the principles and the branches - then this group will not be from the Saved-Sect; the Sect which proceeds upon the Straight Path which was indicated by the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) in the authentic hadeeth.

Brother, I am even laughing going through your post because it shows lack of understanding of Islam. How does TMC goes against Quran Hadith and Sunnah of the holy prophet (saw)


And if we imagined that there are separate groups in the Islaamic lands, upon this manhaj (methodology), then they will not be considered as being parties, rather they are a single group, with a single manhaj and its path is a single one. Though they are separated by land, they are not, however, separated in thoughts, ’aqeedah (beliefs), or manhaj. Rather this separation is only due to a physical separation in land - as opposed to the various groups and parties, which may even be in a single land, yet despite this, each party is pleased only with that which it possesses. As for these types of parties, we do not believe that they are upon the Straight Path. Rather we state with certainty, that they are upon those paths - at the head of each one is a devil calling the people to it. And hopefully this contains an answer for what has preceded. [4]

THE FATWAA OF SHAYKH IBNUL-’UTHAYMEEN:

[Q]: Are there any texts from the Book of Allaah, or from the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) which contain an allowance of multiple groups and parties or al-Ikhwaan?

[A]: I say: There is not either in the Book or the Sunnah that which allows multiple groups and parties. Rather, there is in the Book and the Sunnah that which censures this. Allaah - the Most High - said:

"Verily those who split up their Religion and become sects, you have no concern with them in the least. Their affair is with Allaah who will tell them about what they used to do." [Sooratul An’aam 6:159]

Allaah - the Most High - said:

"Each sect rejoicing in that which is with itself." [Sooratur-Room 30:32]

And there is no doubt that these parties are contrary to what Allaah ordered. Rather what Allaah has ordered and encouraged is in His saying:

"And indeed, this Ummah of yours is one Ummah and I am your Lord, so fear and obey Me." [Sooratul-Mu‘minoon 23:52]

And some people say: It s not possible for the da’wah (call) to be strong unless it is done within the framework of a party! We say to that: This is incorrect! Rather the da’wah will be strong whenever the person is under the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) - following the narrations of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and that of his Companions. [5]


Now what do you call these:

SUNNI
SHITTE
SHIA

And these:

NASFAT
TMC
MSS
QUAREEB
ANSAR- UD DEEN
NAWAR U DEEN
HABIBULAH
AL MUMINAH
HIZBULAH
em em

IZAR UL HAQQ
AHMADDIYA
DAR UL ISLAM

etc

Are you saying they would all go go to hell fire based on what you ealier said in one of your posts?


Codebase, stil tell with with prove, facts HOW TMC GOES CONTRARY TO THE PROPHETS TEACHINGS.

What groups/movements constitutes a salafi?

hope you know Muslim brotherhood and Deobandi?

In case you missed, read this please:


Current disagreements

In recent years attention has been given to the "jihadi" Salafism of Al-Qaeda, and related groups calling for the killing of civilians, and opposed by many Muslim groups and governments, including the Saudi government and Muslim Brotherhood.[35] Debate continues today over the appropriate method of reform, ranging from violent "Salafism jihadism" to less politicized evangelism. Despite some similarities, the different contemporary self-proclaimed Salafist groups often strongly disapprove of each other and deny the others Salafi character[b][/b].


[36][37][38].
Go through my posts and provide rebuttal where appropriate


@Zayhal

Still waiting for the fabricated hadiths.

May Allah increase our knowledge (Amin) and guide aright (AMIN)
Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by javalove(m): 3:50pm On Sep 28, 2008
@babs

pls can u send an im to smilewithjaji. i want us to discuss something
Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by babs787(m): 3:56pm On Sep 28, 2008
@Javalove

Thanks brother and May Allah be pleased with you. I have done but would be back shortly. I have a lecture to attend.

Maa Salam
Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by zayhal(f): 8:48pm On Oct 13, 2008
babs,
Salam alaykum,
Don't know how this escaped me. I'm just reading these posts for the 1st time. I'll get back to you later, please. Today's gone already.
Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by babs787(m): 7:31pm On Oct 14, 2008
@Zayhal

Salam

Would be waiting for you and Codebase responses with sound proof from Hadith and Quran and no 'I heard it from somewhere stuff'.

I would still be waiting for your fabricated Hadith and note that you must serve the chain of transmission as well.

In addition I wouldnt want an issue you would start without any additional knowledge or material to back it up because I remembered you and Codebase disagreeing with me on the issue of Zakat and read him using Abu Hanifa's statement that has nothing to do with the issue and I asked you questions on the stands on some scholars like Qaradawi and Co but you ignored that part.

Now, you must be able to tender proof and facts in order to justify yourself and I am still waiting for codebase as well for the question raised and I am sure you know TMC when it comes to Hadith and Sunnah, so set the ball rolling, am eager to learn from you and we enlighten each other more.

Remember, no ' I heard from somewhere'. I need facts from Hadith and Sunnah and particularly, Al-Banni's publication where you normally use and think that we don't use it.

Maa Salam
Re: What's Wrong With Tmc ( The Muslim Congress)? by Nobody: 11:32pm On Apr 17, 2016
Run from THEM

Have you heard about the story of their first leader?

They are 'a la jamah' yet they are always trying to take over MSSN
They are 'a la jamah' yet they are always attending MSSN exco voting nights looking to be voted too?



Tell me, what do you call a person who say something is wrong yet you find the person doing the same thing?

If any of its members are here tonight....run to your excos, tell them that i am coming for them. You have no idea what I intend to do to your course. Oh! no one is sponsoring me, I just find it hard to understand and trust cowards and people who cannot stay true to their course. grin grin grin grin

I intend to go very far with you! Keep guessing wink

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