Two sisters were hacked to death by their Muslim brothers in Jordan in an "honor killing" that came one day after the country's parliament rejected a bill imposing tougher sentences for the crime.

The Jordan Times newspaper said the brothers used axes to kill the unidentified sisters, aged 20 and 27, according to a BBC report.

The brothers, now in detention, admitted they carried out the killing to uphold the "family honor."

The practice is known in many Muslim communities as a way of applying justice to a woman deemed to have harmed a family's reputation.

The Times said the 27-year-old sister left home two years ago to marry a man without her family's permission. Three months ago, her 20-year-old sister ran away to join her.

Jordanian officials said someone tipped off the brothers about where the sisters were living. The men went into their home with axes and hacked them to death.

"It was a brutal scene," the official said, according to the paper. "One victim's head was nearly cut clean off."

On Sunday, the Jordanian parliament rejected a bill that would strengthen relevant laws, which currently mete out sentences as light as six months in prison for people guilty of honor killings.

The Jordanian paper said, officially, 12 women are reported to have been killed this year for reasons of "family honor."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34530

It clearly is not Islamic. These are common criminals commiting crimes and claiming to do it in the name of Islam. Individuals cannot evaluate a case and execute judgment. This is Lebanon, and we may not be claer about the boundary between culture and faith; Islam definitely condemns this sort of illegal act. Honour killing? Honour for whom? There is no Honour Killing in Islam. This is lawlessness. The brothers are murderers, and they must face the full wrath of legal law. My thoughts are with this family.
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Nimshi see one of my points

These people must stop mixing Islam and Traditional practices

Pple claimin 'this is unislamic' are only standin the truth on its head.This is Islam in all its ramifications.It is the same principle that is applied when a Moslem/muslim leaves the faith for anoda,his compatriots are justified in killin him/her.So pls stop puttin up these weak defenses,we know beta.

cold: how can you judge 1 billion people because of the misbehaviour/criminality of a few? And, really, I mean a few. This isn't Islamic. It is lawlessness.

And, because this is Lebanon, I can assure you that honour killings do happen among Sikhs and Christians too.

mukina2: yes, the line between culture and religion is so blurred in certain societies that it's difficult to tell. Lebanon is one of those places. And, as I've written above, Christians too carry out honour killings in Lebanon; this is not to justify the latest sad news, but to emphasise the point that just because these two murderers are Muslims does not mean they're following the Islamic way.

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4get Lebanon.Taq an unbiased view as u can of the world(considerin ur leanings)& u wld discover Islam is as intrinsically linked to violence as the head is linked to the neck anywhere in the world.

NImshi

This is what they do all the time, they claim its Islamic ,fact is those people have mixed culture with Islam so much that even the way they interpret sharia is very wrong i know the scholars will know this but, they wont do nothing

LMAO @COLD AND NIMSHI


@topic

islam again?

It's very funny to read that Islam is linked to violence eeverywhere in the world. Take a short walk in recent and so-recent history, and see from where most of the violence 's coming from. Who took the war to Iraq? Not Muslims. Rwanda massacres nko? How many Hutu and Tutsi are Christians? Bosnia nko? Systematic extermination of European Muslims. Afghanistan nko? Christian nations everywhere. But, these are politically-linked stuff.
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Chei!!!!!!!

IT is NOT WELL

where is olabowale?

im surprised dat ive not seen his essays/sermon here as usual

jennykadri:

where is olabowale?

We've sent him an an errand to memorize a secret path to the location of would-be honour killers. It's going to take a loooooong time for him to return.
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Nimshi:

We've sent him an an errand to memorize a secret path to the location of would-be honour killers. It's going to take a loooooong time for him to return.
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oh,i tot he was sent to a rehab?

jennykadri:

oh,i tot he was sent to a rehab?

Oh! So you're in on it? Kwuul. There's one on the way back; Naturally, he's not aware. But things're probably well taken care of. If he shows up here, then some incompetent guard must've messed up.
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Nimshi
i thought you said you had forgotten the whole matter, With Olabowale. whats this about?

@Nimshi

why abuse olabowale? Reveal ur identity!!!

javalove: where's the abuse of on this thread? No abuse; just some friendly joking.

What could I write about my identity that'll be sufficient for you? What do you mean by #reveal your identity"?

mukina2: just did a response to jennykadri who wanted olabowale on this thread; these are friendly jibes; no offence in them Are you taking offence on o's behalf?
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@Nimshi

Please I wouldnt want any rancour between both of you because of Allah Subhana Talla

Once again, its quite unfortunate that the thread where you advocated Jesus being the son of God is locked but want to ask you these simple questions

1. Do you take Jesus as a son of God?

2. Do Muslims believe that Jesus is a son of God?

3. Do you base your answer on verses from the Quran as a Muslim

4. Or you arrived at your conclusion based on verses from the bible?

Still gnawing away at this bone are we?

Oh my God! thank You for saving me.

@reindeer

Hmnnn,
Are u sure about being saved? Ok from what? And was it God or Jesus that saved you? I saw your thread and I can bet you it will not get replies a tenth of what pilgrim's got.
You want to know why? You did not say, "I used to be a muslim"

Or let me give you a good one, you could add;
" I saw jesus, shining face like the sun and he said I am the way etc, "

Just some tips to keep your "high" sustained.

babs787:

@Nimshi
Please I wouldnt want any rancour between both of you because of Allah Subhana Talla

Look, rancours occur all the time. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

Once again, its quite unfortunate that the thread where you advocated Jesus being the son of God is locked but want to ask you these simple questions

Sorry that the thread is locked. Insecure people try to stiffle free communication; yet, they're the first to criticise the Nigerian government for hounding journalists and others with different opinions. The hypocrisy is rife; I do not support it. But, also this: if the impression you came away with after reading my posts on the matter is expressed by: ". . . you advocated Jesus being the son of God . . . ", then I am forced to conclude you have some problem with reading comprehension. That's not a slur, it's a statement to express the situation.

1. Do you take Jesus as a son of God?

This is what I have written, and this is the thrust of my argument:

I meet a Christian who says that the acceptance of Jesus as a son of God is a necessary condition for discussion.
I can use my knowledge of the Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures, namely:

Does he accept that Adam is also a son of God?

Does he accept that angels are also sons of God?

In case he doesn't, I will show him those verses from the Bible.

If he does, then we can discuss, we have a commont ground for the fundamental meaning of "sonship" (and this is the point those of you who don't want to think about the meaning of words are missing).

If he refuses to accept the sonship of Adam and the angels, then I can simply make him out to be a denier, who, as the bible says, has no truth in him.

If this sort of reasoning is beyond you, then we probably can't have a discussion on this matter. Your quibbling over words to the detriment of reason and meaning is appaling; I can't stand it. And I say this: this ignorance about Christianity, and the failure to rise above fierce rhetoric, is partly a result of the failure of imagination, and a parly a result of years of learning by rote. Some of us are not of that sort. Once you realise that words are effective to the extent that they're fit to be used to convey meanings and ideas, you may begin to open up.

It is much like calling a creative genius a demon. Most people don't want to be called demons; but if someone thought you were brilliant and called you a demon, would you launch into a lecturing tirade about why such a word shouldn't be used? Well, if you did, many reasoning, smart people will mark you down as quite unreasonable; some may recommend that you see the relevant professional. Stop quiccling about words, look to the meaning of words.

2. Do Muslims believe that Jesus is a son of God?

Many (almost definitely most) Muslims don't; so what? But your question still shows you're still lost in the woods. If you've had some understanding of what I've been explaining, you'll realise that your question is a 'wrong question'. You're stuck with an obsession, and it's killing your ability to see through things. I don't begrudge you your position, yet, you appear intent on forcing yours on others; this is a a sign of insecurity and an attempt to make everyone else a clone of you; impossible.

3. Do you base your answer on verses from the Quran as a Muslim

The Quran is not a language textbook, neither is it a book on elementary logic (the bible is neither too); the reasoning is based on language and logic; and it is not unacceptable to me; if you think differently, then good luck. The correct statement is this: I can live with the expression that Jesus is God's son, if and only if it is accepted that Adam is also God's son, and/or that the Angels are God's sons. Viewed in the light of Adam and the Angels, "sonship" assumes a new, different meaning. Let's banish laziness and figure what the new meaning is.

4. Or you arrived at your conclusion based on verses from the bible?

The bible made statements that illuminate meaning; the meaning is not in conflict with Islam (that, you've got to figure out, as I'm getting weary about explaining and re-explaining these things. But I'D be happy to debate this point with a Christian), but the relevant tools are language and logic; if the explanations above haven't inspired some thought on your part, then I probably can't help you any further.
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u pple like taking things serious on dis forum,even wen one is joking

@Nimshi: Babs787 asked you direct question. Just like I did, in many instances. You failed to answer his question about you calling or agreeing Jesus as son of God. Instead, you are dancing around, and, each step you are changing your dancing style, to a single music genra. Haba! Answer the man's question, like a real man, man!

You tapdance so much that I don't even know that when you are gonna get of the stage. Na wa o. You should be a politician. It fits your personality, because it will be hard for anybody to pin you down to any thing. They call people like trick dick (ala richard nixon) and in Nigeria, you will be Babangida, as in Maradona or eevil genius!

@Nimshi

You can speak all the english available on earth, u can dribble back and forth but u cant prove the sonship of Jesus to God. Shame! I repeat, whether direct meaning or metaphorical, sonship of Jesus or Adam or Angels has no place in Islam. Leep Rambling


It is blasphemous to say that Allah beget a son. If that were true, he should have had a wife (Q 6v101) and the son would have been the same kind as himself, where as Allah is one, with no one else like unto him. Begetting is an animal act which goes with sex. How can it be consistent with our conception of one who is above all creatures? If such blasphemouus thoughts were possible, as that Alla wanted someone else to help him, He could have chosen the best of his creatures instead of lowering himself to an animal act. But glory to Allah! He is above such things! As He is Omnipotent, He requires no creatures to help him or bring other creatures to him!


Nimshi, having this believe can spoil ur Islam, that is if u are a muslim (which i strongly doubt

Let me offer the following additional comments: I agree that the concept of God having any number of sons – in the well-known context of humans having sons – is by itself exceedingly repulsive and unacceptable. I am myself repulsed by the image of Almighty God himself in sexual conference; God is not Greek, and there's no place for such a suggestion. But, is this what is meant when we hear expressions as "Jesus is the son of God"? First, I attempt a correction/modification of this rather simple sentence to: "Jesus is a son of God". This tiny change is a small victory; but it's only a first step. If there is resistance, perhaps references to what the bible records about Adam and the Angels could help? For me, the day I read from the Hebrew Scriptures that Adam is son of God was a liberating moment; at that moment, the meaning of "son of God" became clear, unambiguous and enlightening. Now, let me comment that there's a sense in which the definite "the" could be used, as we have in: "Jesus is the son of God"; but, that necessitates a qualification of the "son of God" part. At a deep level, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with this construct if and only if my interlocutor accepts the ramifications. In this case, understanding is superior to words.

Some people refuse to discuss the issue of sonship at all; is this reasonable? I don't think so. Of course, God did not have sexual intercourse with a human  (ahusubillah!) and this is clearly not what those who use sonship with relation to God wish to convey. My opinion is that God understands this (and, if I may be allowed, it isn't impossible to picture God wondering what all the trouble is about; a bunch of mortals unable to come to an agreement abotu the figurative use of words,  what a failure). It is humans who're taking unnecessary umbrage in behalf of God. I may disagree with the Christians on the details, but I can agree with them if they let us clarify exactly what they mean by sonship. In this frame of thinking, if Planet Earth were a living thing, then earth is a 'child of God'. Why should we allow language to take over reason? I don't get it. You don't agree, fine; go in peace; but don't impute sth else to my meaning. And you guys should stop this nonsense about me turning around next week to say I have accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour and start a testimony thread on nairaland. First, it's wishful thinking; second, of what value will that be? Christians (including Catholic Priests from Italy) become Muslims all the time; and Muslims convert to Christianity all the time; so, what's special? Please, let's leave these infantile rantings alone and engage like adults, if we must.

People keep portraying Islam as violent, calling all Muslims all sorts of names, thinking that all Muslims believe the same and one thing; when will you intelligently engage these people and show these things are not so? Please; enough! Engage and educate those who don't know, and thos who harbour misconceptions. Stop this nonsensical hounding; you're pushing it, and it's getting quite far.

Now, let me make a suggestion: suppose* Al Quran said the Earth is Flat; suppose** further than this statement is unambiguous, with one and only one interpretation agreed to by all scholars. Now, would you force everyone to believe and accept it? Let me tell you upfront: I won't. If you decide that that disqualifies me from being a Muslim, that's your problem. If you don't argue the point with me, I'll leave you alone. If you ask me, I'll tell you what I understand. If you insist, I'll find ways to make my understanding clear to you; if you insist further, I may begin to make fun of you. If you push really really hard, too hard, then you've invited ridicule, I'll engage you with extensive ridicule. You don't like it, then leave me be. Don't impose your understanding of faith on fact; and if you do, then let it be only for you.

o: I'll get to you in a moment; I need to take care of sth more important first. You're consuming too much time; and I'm beginning to suspect reasoning is alien to you. Where's your summary of the discussion with the Shi'a brother? Your pants 'll be on fire if you've been lying.

* "suppose"; I'll suppose you understand the meaning of this word. The emphasis here is to prevent anyone writing any nonsense about this supposition.
** refer to * directly above.
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@Nimshi: Babs787 asked you direct question. Just like I did, in many instances. You failed to answer his question about you calling or agreeing Jesus as son of God. Instead, you are dancing around, and, each step you are changing your dancing style, to a single music genra. Haba! Answer the man's question, like a real man, man!

Where are the reasonable, responsible, and - yes, this is immodest - smart voices among faithful Muslims when you need them? I did say many are too busy to be posting on discussion boards as this, and frankly, if not for the evil wind blowing on the Nigerian Stock Exchange and the rest of world market, there'll have been no interest in this section; but the way things are, you get sucked in. o: I had a brief struggle with how to handle you, and the most touching voice has been of that poster who always urges peace; but there can be little patience for the sort of irresponsibility you're showing on these pages. Do you understand the post at all? Your post above only shows how lost you are. You're ignorant, fine; that's not a death sentence; but, to flaunt your arrogance too? If you don't understand rather linear reasoning, how can you be one of the credible voices for Islam on this board? To the extent that memorising could be a sign of intelligence, you've got one for you; but this sort is limited for (progressive) reasoning. If you have a question proceeding from my last post, publish it; if you don't, hold your peace.

You tapdance so much that I don't even know that when you are going to get of the stage. Na wa o. You should be a politician. It fits your personality, because it will be hard for anybody  to pin you down to any thing. They call people like trick privates (ala richard nixon) and in Nigeria, you will be Babangida, as in Maradona or eevil genius!

You're such a disgrace. What do you know about my personality? Unlike you, I'm not ashamed to accept that I am wrong; and I have, on this board. what can anyone do in the face of clear evidence than to bow to reason (I welcome you interpret my "bow" as idolatry. . .) Richard Nixon? Well, at least I am honest in stating what I mean; I resent this comparison. And, Ibrahim Babangida?? You're workign very hard to earn the title of slowpoke; soon, you would have earned it.

javalove: do you programme java? Are you very good at it? If you do, and you are, then yours must be a severely compartmentalized one; Allahu Akbar. Here: you don't understand a thing. There's nothing I've written that should make me want to prove the sonship of Jesus. I don't need to. Read, and read again until you understand.
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@Nimshi


You don't have to resort to insults when you have nothing to profer to my straight forward questions. I read in one of your saying that you have no problem calling Jesus son of God and I asked you those questions but all I read form you was not being straight forward in your response.

Please, could you please post your declaratio of faith (Shadah) here. I want to arrive at something.


Salam

@topic

Switch the words "muslim" in your article with "Jordanian", it makes more sense. It is an Asian thing. We have muslim communities in other parts of the world where this is not a practice.

babs787:

@Nimshi

You don't have to resort to insults when you have nothing to profer to my straight forward questions.

Have I insulted you? And, to whom have I responded with harsh words who didn't deserve it? Look, when I reach the limits, I get back at anyone writing nonsense as I wish. Leave it if you don't like it. You see no insult in being compared to Richard Nixon and Ibrahim Babangida, eh? Stop falunting your hypocrisy in my face.

I read in one of your saying that you have no problem calling Jesus son of God and I asked you those questions but all I read form you was not being straight forward in your response.

You're still not reading well. I wrote no such thing. I don't think that reply is really complex or complicated. I wrote that I have no problem agreeing with a Christian who calls Jesus the son of God if and only if (s)he also accepts that Adam is the son of God, and that the Angels are sons of God. In that case "sonship" assumes a different meaning, and we can find a common ground that's beyond the casual meaning of words. Now, Is that still too complicated for you??

Please, could you please post your declaratio of faith (Shadah) here. I want to arrive at something.

And while you demand for the Shahadah, why don't you get a long knife and AK47 ready too? Why should I make a declaration to you? You matter not to me, why should I make a sacred declaration for your benefit?

GUYS!!!!!

ENOUGH ALREADY !

Moderator,
VERY OFF TOPIC

Nimshi and Babs haaaaa

this is embarassing . .please guys, its ok, stop this please