bk/babe90:

Ah, long story! They think I'm this Super-Human that can morph into like 10 billion different people. . . . bottom-line: Ibos see me log-on they crap in their pants!

y?
y the rivary without yorubas igbos are nothing and without the igbos yorubas r nothing ( we need them in lagos nad they need lagos too) not only lagos in business.am just confused about the rivary btw yoruba and igbo.

, and one more thing, y is it that the igbos r not united in the political scene. if they were more united, we and them can form a strong alliance( since the hausas/fulanis regard all of us as southerns anyway).

jason12345:

, and one more thing, y is it that the igbos r not united in the political scene. if they were more united, we and them can form a strong alliance( since the hausas/fulanis regard all of us as southerns anyway).

jason12345:

y?
y the rivary without yorubas igbos are nothing and without the igbos yorubas r nothing ( we need them in lagos nad they need lagos too) not only lagos in business.am just confused about the rivary btw yoruba and igbo.

Sorry dude but you are about to derail thread.

Katsumoto:

Sorry dude but you are about to derail thread.

sorry about that, i was just confused.

"I make bold to declare to you that,  I am with you soul, spirit and body. And mark my words, whatever happens to you today, happens to me. I am your true friend, dear J.U.T like the dove to the pigeon, and by the grace of our good God, so will I humbly yet proudly remain till the very end." According to Ajiki,

[size=14pt]I doubt a man said to go through the ranks from a private to the officer cadre would be erudite enough to command in  prestine queens English the above quotation as detailed especially under duress of being killed. The above caption are stuff of fiction, an allusion and are legendary but a precise give away, stories like these should be told to the marines OR better still peddle in run down booze bars.  

The wordings and the quotaion is almost shakesperian, very un-Nigerian, are we to believe this cock and bull story just because the officer's involved were trained during the colonial era and that surley makes them an epitome of a quintesential English gentleman both in speech and mannerism.

At least Idi Amin dada of Uganda was a product of pre-colonial Uganda not any different from Fajuyi, he too rose through the ranks, he being the head of state of his country is a testemony of the calibre of officer produce by the Brits at the time, Idi Amin's bungling is legendary and his buffonery was more than obvious for the whole world to see,  he could'nt have being better than any other semi-illetrate officer's that abounds Nigeria at the time, Idi Amin is a yard-stick for refrence as to the demeanour of officer's at the helms of affiars of Nigeria and a damn good yard stick it is. ( Gowon we all know with the benefit of hinsight was not the smartest officer either how much one that rose through the ranks).

Good story but a really tall story that should be discounted with the simplest of thought, probably a good bed time story for the orphaned kids of Ironsi and Fajuyi.  


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KnowAll:


[size=14pt]I doubt a man said to go through the ranks from a private to the officer cadre would be erudite enough to command in  prestine queens English the above quotation as detailed especially under duress of being killed. The above caption are stuff of fiction, an allusion and are legendary but a precise give away, stories like these should be told to the marines OR better still peddle in run down booze bars.  

The wordings and the quotaion is almost shakesperian, very un-Nigerian, are we to believe this cock and bull story just because the officer's involved were trained during the colonial era and that surley makes them an epitome of a quintesential English gentleman both in speech and mannerism.

At least Idi Amin dada of Uganda was a product of pre-colonial Uganda not any different from Fajuyi, he too rose through the ranks, he being the head of state of his country is a testemony of the calibre of officer produce by the Brits at the time, Idi Amin's bungling is legendary and his buffonery was more than obvious for the whole world to see,  he could'nt have being better than any other semi-illetrate officer's that abounds Nigeria at the time, Idi Amin is a yard-stick for refrence as to the demeanour of officer's at the helms of affiars of Nigeria and a damn good yard stick it is. ( Gowon we all know with the benefit of hinsight was not the smartest officer either how much one that rose through the ranks).

Good story but a really tall story that should be discounted with the simplest of thought, probably a good bed time story for the orphaned kids of Ironsi and Fajuyi.  


[/size]

You may be right about a soldier using such language but how can you compare Nigeria's soldiers at that time with Idi Amin? Nigeria had its finest officers during that era. Ironsi, Ogundipe (he commanded troops in Burma during the second world war) , Maimalari were excellent soldiers. Ojukwu, Ademoyega, Banjo, Rotimi, Ifeajuna, and Olutoye were all graduates before enlisting.

Y

you may be right about a soldier using such language but how can you compare Nigeria's soldiers at that time with Idi Amin? Nigeria had its finest officers during that era. Ironsi, Ogundipe (he commanded troops in Burma during the second world war) , Maimalari were excellent soldiers. Ojukwu, Ademoyega, Banjo, Rotimi, Ifeajuna, and Olutoye were all graduates before enlisting.

[size=14pt]We are talking of a man who rose from other ranks in Africa between the 1940's to 1960's and you expect much from him, u cannot compare the others with this Gentleman. And I doubt Maimalari being an Hausa man it is well documented the Brits favoured the Hausa with regards to the Military, the Igbo's were well learned thus.[/size]

Sorry, Maxsiollum.  I thought that as a historian, you would have no problem whatsoever digging up the information I requested.  You did not even as much as acknowledge my request.  In its stead, you asked me another question.  If you knew the answers, I would confirm them.  But if you didn’t, wouldn't you have benefited from knowing what most historians didn’t?  Would you rather ignore the questions and win an argument, or fail the questions but gain more rare historical information?

maxsiollun:


2) As for Fajuyi being buried with full military honours. How does that relate to the motives for his murder? You claim that coup plotters are not normally buried with full military honours, so let me give you a list of known coup plotters that have similarly been buried with full military honours:

Nzeogwu
Murtala Muhammed
Ibrahim Taiwo
Ibrahim Bako

Nzeogwu
Murtala Muhammed
Ibrahim Taiwo
Ibrahim Bako

All these people you mentioned might have participated in a coup during the course of their careers, but none of them was explicitly killed because he was involved in a coup.

Nzeogwu was killed during the civil war. The other three lost their lives to other coup plotters and nowhere was it stated that any of them was killed for his involvement in any coup.

The killers wanted to exact revenge on Ironsi ( that much they admitted ), and Fajuyi just happened to be in their way, so he too had to die. The only way to make it look alright was to lie about Fajuyi.

I state here again, there is no other Nigerian soldier, killed for participating in a coup and then later buried with full millitary honors, none.

Katsumoto, GREAT points. You have clearly read the different accounts very closely. Great to see someone who contributes from a position of research and knowledge after reviewing the different accounts. There are MINOR discrepancies from the accounts by the eyewitnesses. Some of the accounts have been distorted by NON-eyewitnesses - to confuse the situation (e.g. alleging that Ironsi and Fajuyi were tied to, and dragged along on the back of an army Land Rover). As for Nwankwo's escape, I have written about the whole affair in minute detail. I devoted an entire chapter to Ironsi and Fajuyi's murder and the aftermath.

Katsumoto:

But how is it that there are conflicting accounts of Ironsi and Fajuyi's death. Some accounts place Danjuma in the same place as where they died while another account states that Danjuma walked back to the Barracks. While Ironsi and Fajuyi were being taken away by junior NCOs, Danjuma, the most senior officer and a member of Ironsi's security detail decides to walk back to the Barracks?

Also, how did Nwankwo manage to escape? Especially after pulling a gun on Danjuma when the Northern officers went into the government house to arrest Ironsi. There are two many details that do not had up. For instance, how did Fajuyi end up getting killed when there was no intention to arrest him? When Gowon called the Guest house after Njoku escaped, Danjuma said he was there to arrest Ironsi. When Danjuma and co approached the government house, Fajuyi came out to talk to him. He said he was there to arrest Ironsi. He had a conversation with Fajuyi in which he promised Fajuyi that no harm would come to Ironsi. After getting into the house, Fajuyi also acted as peacemaker when Danjuma accused Ironsi of being part of the January coup. At this point, all accounts are not divergent. Accounts then become conflicting after Ironsi and Fajuyi are kidnapped and taken to Mile 8 on Iwo Road.

maxsiollun:

Katsumoto, GREAT points. You have clearly read the different accounts very closely. Great to see someone who contributes from a position of research and knowledge after reviewing the different accounts. There are MINOR discrepancies from the accounts by the eyewitnesses. Some of the accounts have been distorted by NON-eyewitnesses - to confuse the situation (e.g. alleging that Ironsi and Fajuyi were tied to, and dragged along on the back of an army Land Rover). As for Nwankwo's escape, I have written about the whole affair in minute detail. I devoted an entire chapter to Ironsi and Fajuyi's murder and the aftermath.

Minor discrepancies? What you call minor discrepancies could mean the difference between the truth and a blatant lie.

Danjuma was a principal actor in that event, he minced no words about his mission to arrest Ironsi. Only when it comes to how Fajuyi ended up dead, we start to see "MINOR" discepancies.

Why is the truth so hard to find in Nigeria? Danjuma is still alive and kicking, unless he was too high on drugs that day, he should be able to remember exactly what happend rather than telling us cock and bull stories.

maxsiollun:

Katsumoto, GREAT points. You have clearly read the different accounts very closely. Great to see someone who contributes from a position of research and knowledge after reviewing the different accounts. There are MINOR discrepancies from the accounts by the eyewitnesses. Some of the accounts have been distorted by NON-eyewitnesses - to confuse the situation (e.g. alleging that Ironsi and Fajuyi were tied to, and dragged along on the back of an army Land Rover). As for Nwankwo's escape, I have written about the whole affair in minute detail. I devoted an entire chapter to Ironsi and Fajuyi's murder and the aftermath.

Aigbofa:


Minor discrepancies? What you call minor discrepancies could mean the difference between the truth and a blatant lie.

Danjuma was a principal actor in that event, he minced no words about his mission to arrest Ironsi, only when it comes to how Fajuyi ended up dead, we start to see "MINOR" discepancies.

Why is the truth so hard to find in Nigeria? Danjuma is still alive and kicking, unless he was too high on drugs that day, he should be able to remember exactly what happend rather than telling us cock and bull stories.

In my honest opinion, having read accounts from maxsiollun, Nowa, Gen Haruna, etc, I believe that the differences in the accounts are as a result of concerted efforts to protect Danjuma. Danjuma was a fearless soldier; the manner of his crushing of the Dimka coup, his civil war exploits, and other actions allude to that. What I can't accept is that Danjuma was powerless against NCOs and Lt Walbe. Danjuma was going to be involved in the set-up of the Army and Nigerian governance for a long time; if the Army officially held Danjuma responsible for the murders of Ironsi and Fajuyi, then his career and possibly his life, may have been cut short. The senior officers during the July coup refused to accept responsibility for the murders of innocent officers and civilians; blaming it on NCOs and junior officers whom they were always going to protect and not prosecute.

Lets not forget that Ojukwu did not go into details at Aburi when he asked Gowon about the whereabouts of Ironsi even though he had heard Nwankwo's account. That was Army speak. Just in the same way, no one in the Army stated that Danjuma was the 'unknown soldier' mentioned in Fela's song.

Maxsiollun,
Thank you for your books, they have been very educational and enlightening. You have provided a balanced view in your books but I fear some of those bear official Army transcripts.

Katsumoto, as one earlier poster said, virtually everyone who saw Fajuyi and Ironsi being killed is dead. The only ones still alive are one or two of the northern soldiers who did the deed or were involved in disposing of the bodies. I know that one or two of them (not Danjuma) became Generals and are still alive. They have never spoken about what transpired. You may also want to read Maj-Gen James Oluleye's analysis of the Danjuma/NCOs encounter in his book "Military Leadership in Nigeria".

Walbe was very open in admitting his own involvement but strangely never mentioned the role of Danjuma.

Katsumoto:

In my honest opinion, having read accounts from maxsiollun, Nowa, Gen Haruna, etc, I believe that the differences in the accounts are as a result of concerted efforts to protect Danjuma. Danjuma was a fearless soldier; the manner of his crushing of the Dimka coup, his civil war exploits, and other actions allude to that. What I can't accept is that Danjuma was powerless against NCOs and Lt Walbe. Danjuma was going to be involved in the set-up of the Army and Nigerian governance for a long time; if the Army officially held Danjuma responsible for the murders of Ironsi and Fajuyi, then his career and possibly his life, may have been cut short. The senior officers during the July coup refused to accept responsibility for the murders of innocent officers and civilians; blaming it on NCOs and junior officers whom they were always going to protect and not prosecute.

Lets not forget that Ojukwu did not go into details at Aburi when he asked Gowon about the whereabouts of Ironsi even though he had heard Nwankwo's account. That was Army speak. Just in the same way, no one in the Army stated that Danjuma was the 'unknown soldier' mentioned in Fela's song.

Maxsiollun,
Thank you for your books, they have been very educational and enlightening. You have provided a balanced view in your books but I fear some of those bear official Army transcripts.

maxsiollun:

Katsumoto, as one earlier poster said, virtually everyone who saw Fajuyi and Ironsi being killed is dead. The only ones still alive are one or two of the northern soldiers who did the deed or were involved in disposing of the bodies. I know that one or two of them (not Danjuma) became Generals and are still alive. They have never spoken about what transpired. You may also want to read Maj-Gen James Oluleye's analysis of the Danjuma/NCOs encounter in his book "Military Leadership in Nigeria".

Walbe was very open in admitting his own involvement but strangely never mentioned the role of Danjuma.

Should we then say, Walbe was protecting Danjuma? If so, Why?

maxsiollun:

Walbe was very open in admitting his own involvement but strangely never mentioned the role of Danjuma.

"Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be outraged by silence." Henri Fredric Amiel

maxsiollun:

Katsumoto, as one earlier poster said, virtually everyone who saw Fajuyi and Ironsi being killed is dead. The only ones still alive are one or two of the northern soldiers who did the deed or were involved in disposing of the bodies. I know that one or two of them (not Danjuma) became Generals and are still alive. They have never spoken about what transpired. You may also want to read Maj-Gen James Oluleye's analysis of the Danjuma/NCOs encounter in his book "Military Leadership in Nigeria".

Oluleye was not present to witness what transpired between the Danjuma and the NCOs. His analysis of the event would have been based on what was said by those present. IF what was said or relayed was a lie, then Oluleye's analysis would have been flawed for that situation.

'Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence.' - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

According to the official story, the 4th Battalion (whose soldiers killed Ironsi and Fajuyi) would be placed under Danjuma's command. This same battalion was responsible for raiding Benin prison to seize Anuforo, killing him on Benin-Ore road. This battalion (still under Danjuma) was responsible for searching for Igbo officers all over the North and killing them, after it was (4th Battalion) redeployed from Ibadan. The point I am trying to make here is that, the same NCOs who ignored a senior officer were later placed under his command and they would develop a notoriety for lawlessness and wanton killings. Something definitely went on between Danjuma and those soldiers that has been ignored all these years.

Do you mind me asking which soldiers you are refering to that later became Generals? As far as I know Walbe was a Col at retirement and I don't believe that Garba Dada became a general. Onoja was not present at the abduction of Ironsi and Fajuyi as he ran away after Njoku's escape and as such does not count. This is not for the benefit of the debate.

Katsumoto:

"Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be outraged by silence." Henri Fredric Amiel
According to the official story, the 4th Battalion (whose soldiers killed Ironsi and Fajuyi) would be placed under Danjuma's command. This same battalion was responsible for raiding Benin prison to seize Anuforo, killing him on Benin-Ore road. This battalion (still under Danjuma) was responsible for searching for Igbo officers all over the North and killing them, after it was (4th Battalion) redeployed from Ibadan. The point I am trying to make here is that, the same NCOs who ignored a senior officer were later placed under his command and they would develop a notoriety for lawlessness and wanton killings. Something definitely went on between Danjuma and those soldiers that has been ignored all these years.

Do you mind me asking which soldiers you are refering to that later became Generals? As far as I know Walbe was a Col at retirement and I don't believe that Garba Dada became a general. Onoja was not present at the abduction of Ironsi and Fajuyi as he ran away after Njoku's escape and as such does not count. This is not for the benefit of the debate.

Thanks for the wonderfully relevant information. I don't know which officer grew out of the 4th bat., but I can tell you, they did more harm to the Nigerian psyche than our civil war, the world wars combined. For the first, we learnt to officially reward the negative attributes of our society.

naijaking1:

Thanks for the wonderfully relevant information. I don't know which officer grew out of the 4th bat., but I can tell you, they did more harm to the Nigerian psyche than our civil war, the world wars combined. For the first, we learnt to officially reward the negative attributes of our society.

Just seeing this.

The following officers were in the 4th Battalion
Lt Col Joe Akahan was the commanding officer
Jerry Useni
Garba Dada
Ibrahim Bako
Abdullai Shelleng
Haladu
Magoro
Obeya
James Onoja

But to provide some perspective, the 4th Battalion lost two former commanders Brig Maimalari & Col Kur Mohammed and its current commanding officer, Lt. Col Largema in the January plot.

jason12345:

am new to to nairaland. . first of all am a yoruba boy. with all due respect to the NIGERIANS(biafrans) y did they invade ore and y the awolowo not form our country (oduduwa) or form southern Nigeria with the igbos for christ sake!!! . y join with the hausas. we and the igbos have so much in common than the hausas. y didnt awolowo instigate the killing of the hausas and fulanis since they killed fajuyi._{i just dont understand please someone should explain.}
[/quote

^^^ Ode. I have not said[b] COUNTLESS[/b] times on this forum that I see myself as a Yoruba more than Itsekiri

jason123:

^^^ Ode. I have not said[b] COUNTLESS[/b] times on this forum that I see myself as a Yoruba more than Itsekiri

Your very first post on Nairaland said you were a Yoruba man. Not an Itsekiri. I have never seen an Itsekiri refer to themselves as a Yoruba man. NEVER!

They call themselves Itsekiri first before a Yoruba.

^^^Whatever rocks your boat. . . . . . Do you even see me getting involved in SW politics on NL?? That should answer your curious mind (not that I expect you to believe me anyway). Goodluck with what ever you believe . . . If to you, I am Yoruba, then so be it . . .

This thread is educative

First Alj Haram gets exposed, now jason! Lmao!

^^^GBAM!!! Smh

jason123:

^^^ Ode. I have not said[b] COUNTLESS[/b] times on this forum that I see myself as a Yoruba more than Itsekiri

Did the Ijaw people beat you up so much that you're refusing to accept being Itsekri
Bye the way, next time they "conquer" a piece of Itsekri village, the Igbos and Urobhos should come to their help.

, and William Walbe (who was involved in Ironsi's murder) died a few weeks ago,

^^^
Yes, death beacons all of us, even those involved in cold-blooded murder of their boss.