InesQor:
You're either a pathetic liar or you do not know what a strawman is. You keep overstating or misrepresenting my argument in order to more easily refute it,

This might just have been true if only you had actually made an argument. Seeing that I have been asking you to make an argument that might convince one of your position and you are yet to do so I don't know how you now turn around and accuse me of misrepresenting an argument that was never made.

...and THAT tripe above, about killing animals is yet another example.

Except that that "tripe" exposed your hypocrisy. Rather than actually give a reason why corporal punishment is not an effective way to raise a child, you decided to resort to ad hominem i.e. "I treat my animals better than you treat your children". I just showed your hypocrisy by pointing out that you actually don't. Then you accused me of a strawman for not reading your mind to know that you actually meant those animals you treat better than others.

You did same to MissMeiya and I usually see you doing same on the religion board (a talent that you are well known for. Your usual partners in trifling arguments call it "Anonyism" and this is well known to regulars in that section). You did same on the other thread about rap'e. It is not my duty to clean up your mess if you can't identify your own distorted style of argument.

Lol, even more accusations. Please show these bad arguments . . . . or you can always join logicboy and company to appeal to "anonyism" anytime you run out of gas.

So my refusal to respond means I'm ignorant? Have you considered that I simply have no intentions to discuss this further with you? And I thought you were earlier on complaining about people with an overbloated sense of importance, who grew up feeling entitled.

This is just silly. You hold a certain position yet when you are asked to explain it so that your audience can better understand your reasons, your response is basically "you are not important enough to hear my explanation". I'd wager that you really don't know what you are talking about and you hope to hide this fact by attacking the person asking you the questions..

Your sense of importance here is a tad exaggerated. "Another petty excuse" and "As usual", you say? After only our second conversation? Don't flatter yourself.

Lol...the funny thing is that this too is sounds like yet another excuse to allow you run away.

I never talked to you on NL before yesterday for good reason (based on observation) and now I've had my confirmation.

Lololol....you know, all this time you could have simply copied and pasted the post(s) where you claimed to have lucidly explained why corporal punishment is an improper way to raise a child.

Some educated parents don't believe in corporal punishment melted on their children when they do wrong that is why most Interternational School don't use cain on their students.

@MrAnony1

Let me spell it out for you one last time so you can stop whining in my mentions.

I am no longer interested in discussing with you.

I hope you really can understand this time.

Damyion: The issue of corporal punishment has been a solid ground for arguements among cultural moralists all over the world. Be that as it may, it remains an option for african parents up till date. The expression, 'Spare the rod, spoil the child.' has been the anthem in most homes. This is not limited to blacks living in europe and other parts of the world.
However, from another perspective, it seems ridiculous to pick a cane and hit a child with it. Some even go to the extreme, using broken bottles, pressing irons and pretty much anything they can lay their hands on. Some believe a child should be talked to, not beaten.
This is not an issue of whether it is right or wrong, it's a matter of wondering if this will still[b] remain part of a culture that seems to be fading away with the winds of time and civilization[/b]...

The culture didn't fade 3000 years ago when civilization began with the nok, so why would it fade now?

More ot.
Op, blacks aren't he only ones to do it. I don't know why you seek to pass of myopic opinions as fact.

InesQor: @MrAnony1

Let me spell it out for you one last time so you can stop whining in my mentions.

I am no longer interested in discussing with you.

I hope you really can understand this time.

Lol, as always, thanks for your time.

Hahaha, to paraphrase Claire from Mordern Family, its funny how every generation thinks that they have found the answer to parenting? It seems that they think they can do better than there parents or have found the formulae for perfect parenting. I am talking about the young and single ones who don't have children yet and yet still talk with the authority of someone whose kids have grown to be adolescents just because they have some exposure babysitting or reading some magazine articles on parenting. Such hubris.

Reality is sooooo much different. To think that you can suddenly uproot a basic cornerstone of child rearing just because you are now "enlightened" and "mordern" by reading some online articles and bestselling books on parenting.

I guess there is always a new parenting fad or philosophy that springs up in almost every decade due to the plethora of books written by child psychologists or counsellors.




By the time a man realizes that maybe his father was right, he usually has a son who thinks he's wrong.
Charles Wadsworth[i][/i]

MissMeiya, all4naija, InesQor and MrAnony1 - The four of you are very intelligent, but please argue with love and respect.

Candour:

@the bolded, Does your dad know my dad Its the exact punishment I used to serve apart from regular strokes of the cane sha. It was then extended to my birthdays; no birthday gifts except books which I must summarise. Read almost all the books in series 1 & 2 before I was 12.

Long story short, I can't thank the old man enough for that strict regime. Made me the person I am today. Trying the same thing with my children but 24 hr DSTV go gree??

Corporal punishment has its place of course but we should develop other methods too. Too much cane creates hardened children sometimes.

You make a lot of sense, bro. I think that the problem is not corporal or non-corporal punishment, it is psychological and intellectual non-involvement or disengagement. We don't think enough these days or take the time to adequately sympathise with our kids to see how to mold their psychologies.

That is why there are those who do nothing but corporal and those who do no corporal at all. In the end we get either hardened criminals or mousy people or entitled pompous foöls running wild on earth.

With my niece I have seen that putting her off TV (which she has a big love for can get her attention). That doesn't mean that that will always work. Sometimes you'll need to spank, sometimes you'll need to scold. The important thing is that the lesson must be consistent. If they do not associate the behavior you're correcting with some form of pain or deprivation, you perpetuate that behavior in them.

The bottomline is that we are mirroring real life realities and morals for them.

InesQor:
She properly explained to me later. She lost patience AT explaining and resorted to flogging me. Surely that's not hard to understand.


It is sick to imagine you'll flog a child for using obscene language for the first time if you had not earlier properly instructed him on it, and you don't use it or condone it with anyone else. And if it's not the first time, you still have no reason to flog the child. Rather, you reason with yourself to understand why your previous lesson failed to be absorbed, and you find a more effective way. That is why it is called training. Training is supervised learning.

Similar reasoning applies to a child that steals or tell lies. They are your responsibility to train. Supervise their learning.


I have given some of the most lucid explanations for my stance, on this entire thread. Receiving my stance is left to you as an exercise. And there again, you need to curb your strawman fallacies.

Children are not eggs, my brother. They will not die from flogging or automatically turn into criminals because you beat them. I have two kids I watch everyday currently aged 2 and 5. The two year-old has not developed full verbal communication and can be pretty naughty. You will certainly talk to him about his behavior but you will often need to drive home the lesson with administered pain. That aids his learning. This is the most flexible period of his development. What you do not etch in now will be harder to form in him later.

The saying is true that if you spare the rod you will spoil the child. Both pain and talk can be acclimatized to, this is why you should be imaginative and creative in how you educate children. If a child gets used to pain, pain will no longer be a deterrent. If they get used to talk, talk will no longer be a deterrent. The thing is to make sure that they learn the right associations.

That is what Mr Anony has been trying to get through to you.

It also does no good to keep making your disagreements so personal. People have the right to disagree with you and where you feel that they employ underhanded methods to do so, you can just show how they did and leave it at that. Personal attacks are very bad sportsmanship, they prove that you are an unethical debater.

ihedinobi2:

You make a lot of sense, bro. I think that the problem is not corporal or non-corporal punishment, it is psychological and intellectual non-involvement or disengagement. We don't think enough these days or take the time to adequately sympathise with our kids to see how to mold their psychologies.

That is why there are those who do nothing but corporal and those who do no corporal at all. In the end we get either hardened criminals or mousy people or entitled pompous foöls running wild on earth.

With my niece I have seen that putting her off TV (which she has a big love for can get her attention). That doesn't mean that that will always work. Sometimes you'll need to spank, sometimes you'll need to scold. The important thing is that the lesson must be consistent. If they do not associate the behavior you're correcting with some form of pain or deprivation, you perpetuate that behavior in them.

The bottomline is that we are mirroring real life realities and morals for them.

Dear bro. I agree jare. Parents these days don't take time to understand their children at all. Every child is unique and what works for one might not work for the other. A lot of psychological and social factors to consider in this day and age.

In our days, TV time for every body was 4pm to 11pm max (if you no like am, sue NTA or buy video player). Today its 48 hours a day (DSTV 24 hrs, Strong decoder 24 hrs) streaming contents that remake, remix and remodel the minds and make up (psychological and social) of our kids and I'm not even going to mention the internet, smart phones and their fanciful apps etc.

For those who are wise, the job of parenting and the time needed are more demanding now than before but unfortunately, our time has been colonised by our successful careers and the desire and 'need' to keep up with the speed of an ever evolving world. If we are not careful, most of us risk ending up with a lot of machinery, gadgets, toys etc and a broken heart from parenting failure.

The solution hence isn't brandishing the cane every time but getting close enough to know what goes on in that child's head and heart. That process should start from as early in their life as possible though I believe its never too late for those who haven't started (as if they have a choice?).

Cane might do it for Joe while withdrawal of privileges will do it for John. Know thy child first, then whatever method of discipline shall be added by you.

Cheers bro

ihedinobi2:
Children are not eggs, my brother. They will not die from flogging or automatically turn into criminals because you beat them. I have two kids I watch everyday currently aged 2 and 5. The two year-old has not developed full verbal communication and can be pretty naughty. You will certainly talk to him about his behavior but you will often need to drive home the lesson with administered pain. That aids his learning. This is the most flexible period of his development. What you do not etch in now will be harder to form in him later.
The saying is true that if you spare the rod you will spoil the child. Both pain and talk can be acclimatized to, this is why you should be imaginative and creative in how you educate children. If a child gets used to pain, pain will no longer be a deterrent. If they get used to talk, talk will no longer be a deterrent. The thing is to make sure that they learn the right associations.
That is what Mr Anony has been trying to get through to you.

These are your opinions and you are entitled to them.

ihedinobi2:
It also does no good to keep making your disagreements so personal. People have the right to disagree with you and where you feel that they employ underhanded methods to do so, you can just show how they did and leave it at that. Personal attacks are very bad sportsmanship, they prove that you are an unethical debater.

I will make my disagreements personal wherever I wish. As long as I am not being disagreeable or disrespectful, you can like to leave me alone as I am not interested in getting accolades for good behaviour from you.

Bad sportmanship? Unethical (do you even KNOW what that word means) debater?

Guy, this thing is never by force and I am not here to coddle anyone or lick anyone's boots, or to seek worship from anyone. I am not of any hive-mind. I speak my mind and I stand by it.

Avoid my topics or posts or replies if they bother you so much.

Oh of course you cannot. As you have once again proven again by resurrecting THIS thread from the dead and aimed in my direction.

Abeg abeg.

InesQor:
These are your opinions and you are entitled to them.

They are as much my opinions as any arguments you make are yours too.

I will make my disagreements personal wherever I wish. As long as I am not being disagreeable or disrespectful, you can like to leave me alone as I am not interested in getting accolades for good behaviour from you.

Bad sportmanship? Unethical (do you even KNOW what that word means) debater?

Guy, this thing is never by force and I am not here to coddle anyone or lick anyone's boots, or to seek worship from anyone. I am not of any hive-mind. I speak my mind and I stand by it.

Avoid my topics or posts or replies if they bother you so much.

Oh of course you cannot. As you have once again proven again by resurrecting THIS thread from the dead and aimed in my direction.

Abeg abeg.

I honestly don't know what to make of your rancour.

ihedinobi2:
They are as much my opinions as any arguments you make are yours too.

Funny you're the one continuing a conversation by force and yet you say this. Seems sarcasm is obviously lost on you.

ihedinobi2:
I honestly don't know what to make of your rancour.

In simple language for the heaven-knows-how-many-times-I've-said-this stop mentioning me with your misplaced notions on this topic as I am not interested in discussing them. Can you leave well alone or you want more rancour (sic)?

yousee: I am totally in support of corporal punishment.
Modified and upgraded to suit the times.
Take away from the child that one thing he/she loves best and rather channel them to other activities.

My punishment those days was "read this book and tell me the story when i return from work"
That was so bad at first, cos i wanted to run the streets and play ball with my neighbours.
Well, long story short, i fell in love with the African Writers Series at a very young age and it really helped shape me.

This obviously worked for you. I do worry though that this type of punishment can be a two edged sword. As a teacher I weep for the children who refuse to read outside of the punishment they receive. I love reading. Growing up I found joy, adventure and knowledge in books. I weep for what is lost to the children who grow to hate reading because they see it as punishment.

As parents we need to be careful that the punishment does not undermine positive feedback.

matify:
Moderation should be exercised in dispensing corporal punishment to our children.

They must be made aware of why they are being punished and should also be rewarded when they exhibition good behaviours.

By so doing, the good in them is reinforced while the bad is repressed.

I punish my child with love even though I am pained doing so but afterward I lavish him with uncommon love.

This was one of the first few comments.
Great response.





Reward systems work amazingly well. Who wouldn’t prefer positive reinforcement to punishment? I teach special needs children. Some of them can be extremely difficult. There are nonviolent techniques that work wonders for these kids. I’ve also taught in a general education classroom and discovered that those same techniques carry over to children without intellectual disabilities. Rewarding is a very effective tool when teach children in any capacity; at school or at home.


In my school corporal punishment is illegal without parental consent. I personally do believe corporal punishment has a place in raising a child, but I agree it should be used in moderation and in most cases as a last resort. My only caveat would be that not all children are the same. Some children only respond to corporal punishment. There are also children who do not respond to it at all. It is important to know your child.

texanomaly:



This obviously worked for you. I do worry though that this type of punishment can be a two edged sword. As a teacher I weep for the children who refuse to read outside of the punishment they receive. I love reading. Growing up I found joy, adventure and knowledge in books. I weep for what is lost to the children who grow to hate reading because they see it as punishment.

As parents we need to be careful that the punishment does not undermine positive feedback.

I can understand your point. What really got me hooked were the stories and how it opened up my immagination. At first, i saw it as a punishment, but Achebe's "Arrow if God, No longer at ease, things fall apart, girls at war " and other African Writers bought me over

texanomaly:
This was one of the first few comments.
Great response.





Reward systems work amazingly well. Who wouldn’t prefer positive reinforcement to punishment? I teach special needs children. Some of them can be extremely difficult. There are nonviolent techniques that work wonders for these kids. I’ve also taught in a general education classroom and discovered that those same techniques carry over to children without intellectual disabilities. Rewarding is a very effective tool when teach children in any capacity; at school or at home.


In my school corporal punishment is illegal without parental consent. I personally do believe corporal punishment has a place in raising a child, but I agree it should be used in moderation and in most cases as a last resort. My only caveat would be that not all children are the same. Some children only respond to corporal punishment. There are also children who do not respond to it at all. It is important to know your child.

You are quite right.

I was a very sensitive child (still a very sensitive adult) and it didn't take much to get my attention but I was and am still very stubborn. Neither Mom nor Dad particularly detested using the cane. Doesn't mean I got hit at every turn. But I did get hit sometimes and the resulting resentment and hostility that I harbored were so natural to me that I grew up very skilled at repressing my own feelings and expressions.

Fast-forward to today. I miss my parents. Haven't seen them in a while now. Hoping and planning that I will at Christmas. I'm a very tidy guy (I do have my moments when I'm severely stressed though). I'm a very careful person when I handle things (I used to get the cane for dropping glasses all the time). I have a strong sense of responsibility. Etc. Anyone could praise themselves so I don't expect all of that to mean all that much. I'm particularly interested in pointing out that while I grew up feeling very strongly about how I was raised, I have absolutely no regrets today for it. I have had cause to contrast my life with other people who were brought up by permissive parents and I promise you I don't envy them.

I don't think that the cane is supposed to be the teaching tool of choice. I think it should just never be removed as an option. Some children will need it far more than others. Some may not even need it at all. But it should always be there as a teaching tool. It is not cruelty to give children a taste of what life will administer to them when a particular behavior matures with them, it is warning, the warning of a concerned parent to a beloved child.

ihedinobi2:
You are quite right.

I was a very sensitive child (still a very sensitive adult) and it didn't take much to get my attention but I was and am still very stubborn. Neither Mom nor Dad particularly detested using the cane. Doesn't mean I got hit at every turn. But I did get hit sometimes and the resulting resentment and hostility that I harbored were so natural to me that I grew up very skilled at repressing my own feelings and expressions.

Fast-forward to today. I miss my parents. Haven't seen them in a while now. Hoping and planning that I will at Christmas. I'm a very tidy guy (I do have my moments when I'm severely stressed though). I'm a very careful person when I handle things (I used to get the cane for dropping glasses all the time). I have a strong sense of responsibility. Etc. Anyone could praise themselves so I don't expect all of that to mean all that much. I'm particularly interested in pointing out that while I grew up feeling very strongly about how I was raised, I have absolutely no regrets today for it. I have had cause to contrast my life with other people who were brought up by permissive parents and I promise you I don't envy them.

I don't think that the cane is supposed to be the teaching tool of choice. I think it should just never be removed as an option. Some children will need it far more than others. Some may not even need it at all. But it should always be there as a teaching tool. It is not cruelty to give children a taste of what life will administer to them when a particular behavior matures with them, it is warning, the warning of a concerned parent to a beloved child.

I’m glad you appreciate what your parents did for you. I only have our dealings here on NL to go by, but you seem to be a good man.

@ the bolded…
I don’t believe corporal punishment should ever be used as a “teaching” tool. It can definitely be an effective consequence tool. Corporal punishment is just that…punishment. It should be use after a child has been taught, and only as a consequence of breaking the rules. It is a parents responsibility to “teach” a child first, then punish if necessary. The bolded is an example of the cart before the horse.

I have altered your words here...forgive me.

I don't think that the cane is supposed to be the teaching tool punishment of choice. I think it should just never be removed as an option. Some children will need it far more than others. Some may not even need it at all. But it should always be there as a potential teaching tool punishment. [s]It is not cruelty to give children a taste of what life will administer to teach how to act. them when a particular behavior matures with them, it is warning, the warning of a concerned parent to a beloved child.[/s] It is our job as parents to teach our children right from wrong, and to prepare them for life outside the walls of our homes. Consequences are important, if our children are to learn the lessons we have taught them.

modified:

I don't think that the cane is supposed to be the punishment of choice. I think it should just never be removed as an option. Some children will need it far more than others. Some may not even need it at all. But it should always be there as a potential punishment. It is our JOB as parents to teach our children right from wrong, and to prepare them for life outside the walls of our homes. Consequences are important, if our children are to learn the lessons we have taught them.


Hopefully the goal is to raise independent adults who are; well-adjusted and well mannered, with morals and common sense. Adults who will contribute positively to society.

Corporal punishment should be used as a last resort when all other methods have been exhausted. I don't agree with people who say that it is right for every child and similarly with those that say it should never be used. The way I see it it depends on the child, situation and what other methods you have tried and have failed. With some children a good smack and possibly more is all that will do the job and for other more sensitive children too many smacks can do some serious harm both psychologically and emotionally. Having said that I do believe that corporal punishment is definitely ingrained within African tradition and is considered totally normal because for most of us we have grown up that way and everyone we knew was also brought up the same way however just because something feels normal doesn't mean it's right so if you have been blessed to be more open minded and see what our parents could have been possibly wrong in then we should know better.

texanomaly:

I’m glad you appreciate what your parents did for you. I only have our dealings here on NL to go by, but you seem to be a good man.

@ the bolded…
I don’t believe corporal punishment should ever be used as a “teaching” tool. It can definitely be an effective consequence tool. Corporal punishment is just that…punishment. It should be use after a child has been taught, and only as a consequence of breaking the rules. It is a parents responsibility to “teach” a child first, then punish if necessary. The bolded is an example of the cart before the horse.

I have altered your words here...forgive me.

I don't think that the cane is supposed to be the teaching tool punishment of choice. I think it should just never be removed as an option. Some children will need it far more than others. Some may not even need it at all. But it should always be there as a potential teaching tool punishment. [s]It is not cruelty to give children a taste of what life will administer to teach how to act. them when a particular behavior matures with them, it is warning, the warning of a concerned parent to a beloved child.[/s] It is our job as parents to teach our children right from wrong, and to prepare them for life outside the walls of our homes. Consequences are important, if our children are to learn the lessons we have taught them.

modified:

I don't think that the cane is supposed to be the punishment of choice. I think it should just never be removed as an option. Some children will need it far more than others. Some may not even need it at all. But it should always be there as a potential punishment. It is our JOB as parents to teach our children right from wrong, and to prepare them for life outside the walls of our homes. Consequences are important, if our children are to learn the lessons we have taught them.


Hopefully the goal is to raise independent adults who are; well-adjusted and well mannered, with morals and common sense. Adults who will contribute positively to society.

Oh I hope so.

Actually, the essence of punishment or discipline is to teach right from wrong. It's like God disciplining us His Children. The true price of failure is ostracism or a cutting off from society and, in the ultimate, God's Universe, you know. The punishment is to give the child some idea what their failure really results in. It is meant to deter them from carrying the behavior to maturity where it is no longer corrected but summarily cut off by cutting themselves off.

Naima00: Corporal punishment should be used as a last resort when all other methods have been exhausted. I don't agree with people who say that it is right for every child and similarly with those that say it should never be used. The way I see it it depends on the child, situation and what other methods you have tried and have failed. With some children a good smack and possibly more is all that will do the job and for other more sensitive children too many smacks can do some serious harm both psychologically and emotionally. Having said that I do believe that corporal punishment is definitely ingrained within African tradition and is considered totally normal because for most of us we have grown up that way and everyone we knew was also brought up the same way however just because something feels normal doesn't mean it's right so if you have been blessed to be more open minded and see what our parents could have been possibly wrong in then we should know better.

I don't know about last resort. I think that various sorts of misbehavior should attract different kinds and degrees of correction/discipline.

ihedinobi2:

Oh I hope so.

Actually, the essence of punishment or discipline is to teach right from wrong. It's like God disciplining us His Children. The true price of failure is ostracism or a cutting off from society and, in the ultimate, God's Universe, you know. The punishment is to give the child some idea what their failure really results in. It is meant to deter them from carrying the behavior to maturity where it is no longer corrected but summarily cut off by cutting themselves off.

How many times in the Bible did God punish anyone without warning them or teaching them first?

texanomaly:

How many times in the Bible did God punish anyone without warning them or teaching them first?

I don't think he ever did that. And I didn't imply or mean to imply that he did. My point is that punishment is still a deterrent, a lesson to behave rather than a final solution, in a manner of speaking. It's still part of the lesson being taught to the child. That's why I called it a teaching tool.

ihedinobi2:

I don't think he ever did that. And I didn't imply or mean to imply that he did. My point is that punishment is still a deterrent, a lesson to behave rather than a final solution, in a manner of speaking. It's still part of the lesson being taught to the child. That's why I called it a teaching tool.

You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it that is all. I Hope you have had a good day.

texanomaly:

You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it that is all. I Hope you have had a good day.

Yes I did. You?

ihedinobi2:
Yes I did. You?

I spent the day with my family. It was wonderful. We are about to BBQ. Then play games. I am in Heaven when my family is all together.

texanomaly:

I spent the day with my family. It was wonderful. We are about to BBQ. Then play games. I am in Heaven when my family is all together.

Awesome

In America there are gangs like crops and bloods which one joins by being beaten I know in African American culture beating children was seen as proper especially with a belt an extension chord or a switch small branch from a bush but I don't see its benefit if you can encourage good behavior by shame and honor to self and community