MissMeiya:

Absolutely. Nigerians are capable of the most wicked things I've ever seen in my life, and it is because of the cruelty of their upbringing.

MissMeiya:

That is ridiculous.
1. Nigerians are not "innately wicked/evil".

2. Children slapping people is incomparable to conscious, bloody cruelty and torture.

3. Do you think if Nigerians had access to guns there wouldn't be massive shootings? Honestly, do you?

4. People who use guns are very removed from the effects of their actions. They could never come up close to their victims and hack them to death with a machete, or burn them to death, or pour acid on them--common occurrences in Nigeria. And even with the physical and mental distance they gain by using guns, they almost always turn the guns on themselves afterwards and commit suicide. How do you consider that "entitlement"? America's gun problem is a matter of ACCESS, where mentally unbalanced people are allowed to own firearms. Not a matter of "spoiled children".

This is a very very common African misconception, this fear of "spoiling" children. Where you can hear someone telling you that holding your child too much is bad, and you should allow them to cry until they stop.

jesuslovesme123: Much as I agree with some of your points, I don't want to mix up issues. My original point is in response to your comment in which you related the level of evil in Nigeria to the corporal punishment that children receive. I am pointing out why this is not the case. I have made some comments below.


Well, innate or not, Nigerians are certainly among the most wicked / evil people I have encountered (and I have spent a lot of my life outside Nigeria). I don't know how many countries have a cocktail of wicked activities such as looting, witchcraft, kidnapping, jinxing, robbery, oppression, outright determination to prevent another's progress - you name it - going on on such a frequent basis. I don't know of many countries where people are afraid to enter public transport for fear of disappearing. (I don't see how any of these evil acts have anything to do with corporal punishment).



I agree. By referring to "happy slapping", I am drawing attention to an example of how a lack of adequate punishment for children is impacting on British society.

I don't see the correlation between corporal punishment and the cruelty / torture that you mention. I am not saying that they don't exist in our society - I am saying that other factors are responsible for them.



Of course there would be. This debate is not about whether or not Nigerians are capable of evil. We already know the answer to that. By referring to school shootings, I am going back to the issue of upbringing. Most US shootings are carried out by youngsters who felt rejected / bullied / not loved / not given enough, or who - like you said - were mentally unbalanced. How many Nigerian youngsters go out and attack people "because they were not loved"?

I have no doubt that there would be massive shootings in Nigeria if we all had access to guns, but we would be doing it for totally different reasons (Back to my point about who we are as a people).



My answer to your point 3 partly addresses this. In terms of a sense of "entitlement", when a child goes and kills a bunch of other children because his parents did not love him / because he was bullied, whether or not he shoots himself in the end, he has shown that he believes he has a right to destroy other lives because he doesn't have what he wants out of life. That is evidence a sense of entitlement.



I agree @ the bolded - I certainly do not follow that school of thought . Theirs is another extreme.

MissMeiya:

You and I actually agree, but for the question of whether cruelty breeds cruelty. Which I can't believe is even a question. It very obviously does. You say other factors in Nigeria are responsible for the cruelty that takes place: I'd like to know what they are.

And as you are not a psychologist, your theory that mass murderers kill because they are spoiled and entitled, rather than mentally deranged, is doubly ludicrous.

jesuslovesme123:

Cruelty breeds cruelty. Yes. But does corporal punishment equate to cruelty?

I believe that the OP is referring to corporal punishment in its true sense, and not child abuse (which some patents practice in the name of punishment).

Im terms of the factors that breed cruelty - wow - that's a whole new conversation on its own. Let's just say that our background of fetish practices and our greed as a people - lead to these issues. Most evil acts commited in Nigeria boil down to money, sheer wickedness, or the desire for spiritual (not Godly) power / control.

I am not a psycholigist, but I watch / read the news. The homes of most mass murderers are searched after the fact, and their histories analysed, and information gathered about the murderers from their diaries, phones, computers, recordings, even their family - reveal their motive - which is almost always one of the motives that I earlier mentioned.

yousee: I am totally in support of corporal punishment.
Modified and upgraded to suit the times.
Take away from the child that one thing he/she loves best and rather channel them to other activities.

My punishment those days was "read this book and tell me the story when i return from work"
That was so bad at first, cos i wanted to run the streets and play ball with my neighbours.
Well, long story short, i fell in love with the African Writers Series at a very young age and it really helped shape me.

Calebosko: I beleve dat when a child is maltreated,or over cane,such as esposing her to Army training kind of brougt up al because they dont want d child to spoil, this resulted on making d child 2 be hash wen he or she grow up, somtime he may transer dat kind of treatment to d society, hence we are aving so many heartless people in nigeria compared to oyibo who dont endorse such, for example a man who cannot kill a fly wil be ready to smogle,or maim a man alive as soon as he join d nigerian army due to d kind of training he has been exposed to, i know over pampering is not good,but we dont av to take is so much on a child so as to avoid kiling d Gods givin love and Emotion in a child due to d ill treatment he or she eas exposed to.

InesQor:
Oh please! It was a complex problem that involved adults in the family and was better understood by adults. Nuances and context were what she lost patience explaining, NOT that she had explained that particular aspect to me previously. She regretted that later then took time to explain the entire picture.

Feel free to "beat sense" into your children. I only know I'll never do that even to my animals.

Have fun.

MrAnony1:
Ok I won't press you further on this specific case.

Lol of course you don't beat animals you only have their throats slit and feed on the flesh of their corpses. So much for the moral high ground that you are trying to assume without actually making a case.

MrAnony1: It didn't escape my notice that you have once again evaded the opportunity explain your position and point out the strawmen you accused me of erecting. It seems you just like accusing people who disagree with you in order to feel better about yourself.

MrAnony1:
I am.

MissMeiya:
The things you see on the news tell you that mass murderers were spoiled as children and never beaten? I highly doubt that. I would really love to see any news piece that even remotely implied that.
I believe that is a subconscious conclusion you drew from the misconception that beating a child somehow makes him/her obedient.
What do you believe corporal punishment entails?
This is how I understand it:
A method of discipline that uses pain to deter bad behavior.
Nigerians are not "greedy" people. The circumstances and uncertainty of living in Nigeria, demands a great deal of self-preservation behavior. I wouldn't call that greedy. And greedy people are not always cruel. That is a logical fallacy. Non sequitur. It does not follow.
As for wickedness, humans are not BORN "wicked". That is something they learn from their environment and their upbringing. This is scientifically proven and historically evidenced. So, no, Nigerians are not "naturally wicked".

InesQor:

From where I stand, your mind is a wildly fascinating place... I could hardly have said any of this better.

MissMeiya:
If you're trying to flatter me, it's working.
I think too much. I'm the silent, daydreamer type that Googles random questions that occur to her. As a result, I usually have too much to say. But the force of character developed while I was in college. Before then, I generally kept my thoughts to myself. Now, my mother always complains that I didn't decide to study law lol
Also, I've been a voracious reader since I was a very small child. My grandmother, to this day, will tell anyone who will listen how I never knew where I was, and she had to drag me to make sure I was following her, because my nose was always in a book, or trying to pronounce words I saw on the street (I love my grandmother.) The librarians in my local library watched me grow up, because I was always in there. Then I started working there in high school.
So anyway, my mind is kind of cluttered. I've been meaning to tidy up for a while now...

InesQor:

Lol! No, I did not exactly move to flatter. Interesting brief autobio as well.

Please we thank you not to tidy your mind up! We already have enough of the mundane.

So I am guessing you were not of those kids "punished" with literature since you already had a healthy appetite for it

It was just the same with me, and whenever I ran out of things to read I'd take my Father's old notebooks (he's a professor) and begin writing my own stories in the empty pages at the back. And, no, I was not flogged for that (rolls eyes) when I was found out. Rather I was told to desist, and a proper journal was bought for me.

all4naija: @MissMeiya and InesQor

Please, enough of your boring life diaries. No sensible person is willing to read them. Corporate punishment, whatever there is in punishment that is corporate is yet to be seen in beating up a child for some mistake or not paying attention. That is a primitive man's reasoning. It is archaic and should be eliminated from the Nigerian society.

MissMeiya:

I suppose you thought that was intelligent. This is a public forum, which you do not own. So kindly shove it.

I try not to be this pedantic but you really asked for it: it's CORPORAL, not CORPORATE punishment.

all4naija:
Lol... You claim that as being intelligent but I don't. Nobody who is sensible enough to understand how the modern world works is going to accept your primitive childhood as something to judge children upbringing in the contemporary.

Oh, yeah! And, because it is a public forum your life diaries must be spelled across the length of the thread to think you are right on points. Jeez! At least, you haven't made any sense at all.

There is nothing pedantic in that though. Thank you for the correction.

MissMeiya:

I guess reading is a problem for you.

One, I asked you if you thought YOUR rude post to me was intelligent. Your response to that is "Lol... You claim that as being intelligent but I don't." Ok. I'm glad you know it wasn't intelligent.

Two, "Nobody who is sensible enough to understand how the modern world works is going to accept your primitive childhood as something to judge children upbringing in the contemporary." You deserve the biggest dunce cap for this. This is why reading is fundamental. I won't even tell you why this was a dumb thing to tell ME, I'll just encourage you to read one, just ONE of my posts in this thread. Then try to understand why that was a rétarded thing to say to me, in particular.

Three, "Oh, yeah! And, because it is a public forum your life diaries must be spelled across the length of the thread to think you are right on points." Again, you're failure to read strikes you another blow. At the end of my last post, I requested a continuation in a different location, as I realized I was derailing. Unfortunately for you, your fear of text irritated your eyes enough that you were unable to notice that last sentence. So, once more, I politely request that you SHOVE. IT.

Please ensure that it doesn't fall out. If you require assistance with that, I'm at your service. Otherwise, stay clear. Thanks.

all4naija:
Hahaha... I think I am going to enjoy this conversation as long as it has us in a balance.

First and foremost, you excusably made a statement about intelligence having me to believe that's what my previous post was all about, which you never divulged the reason why you have to use that term in the first place. I was very objective looking at the way you were going about your childhood to support your primitive views regarding being judgmental on the issue. Mostly, in many of the conversations or exchanges with another boring poster indeed.

Secondly, it is laughable after allegedly claiming my statement is total BS and pointing to why you think reading is fundamental, yet forgetting that educative material is the fundamental thing to read than just reading for reading sake makes you look scythe in your gross self-aggrandizement in this argument, as though you are really into reading so much portrayed with passion in your previous posts. It is completely absurd and absolutely unacceptable. When it is very clear you are running away from explaining yourself. That is something I am not going to entertain in this heated debate. Meaning, I am not condescending to any of your usual prestidigitation to look exonerated when you are not. It is not helping matter and the kind of person you claim to be here.

Thirdly,whether you requested for a different platform to discuss your over-eulogized childhood diary or not the fact remains you cannot use such primitive past experience to continue to support how the present generation must be disciplined. It is preposterous to say the least. No sensible person is going to see that as intelligent move.

On the final note, my request for assistance from you, if there is any at all, is for you to kindly express yourself in line with the modern world and give me the reason why the topic has to be about your childhood past. It doesn't make sense in the light of the discussion. You have no excuse or whatsoever on any moral ground to do so through your poor childhood history.

Thank you.

InesQor:
Do you honestly think you made sense here? I was obviously referring to pets and not livestock reared for consumption. But then, that's what is expected of you: another straw-man fallacy.

I actually have better things to do with my time so I avoid people I've noticed love to argue just for argument's sake. Of which I deem you a chief.

No offence, I'm just not that into your "style of conversation" and "logic" and would probably not be talking to you at all, if you hadn't first mentioned me here.

Good. Then I'm positive you can do so without me. Cheers.

all4naija: First and foremost, you excusably made a statement about intelligence having me to believe that's what my previous post was all about, which you never divulged the reason why you have to use that term in the first place.

I was very objective looking at the way you were going about your childhood to support your primitive views regarding being judgmental on the issue. Mostly, in many of the conversations or exchanges with another boring poster indeed.

Secondly, it is laughable after allegedly claiming my statement is total BS and pointing to why you think reading is fundamental, yet forgetting that educative material is the fundamental thing to read than just reading for reading sake...

...makes you look scythe

in your gross self-aggrandizement in this argument

, as though you are really into reading so much portrayed with passion in your previous posts. It is completely absurd and absolutely unacceptable.

When it is very clear you are running away from explaining yourself

That is something I am not going to entertain in this heated debate.

Meaning, I am not condescending

to any of your usual prestidigitation

to look exonerated when you are not.

It is not helping matter and the kind of person you claim to be here.

Thirdly,whether you requested for a different platform to discuss your over-eulogized

childhood diary

or not the fact remains you cannot use such primitive past experience to continue to support how the present generation must be disciplined.

It is preposterous to say the least. No sensible person is going to see that as intelligent move.

On the final note, my request for assistance from you, if there is any at all, is for you to kindly express yourself in line with the modern world and give me the reason why the topic has to be about your childhood past. It doesn't make sense in the light of the discussion. You have no excuse or whatsoever on any moral ground to do so through your poor childhood history.

Thank you.

MrAnony1:
Lol except that it wasn't a strawman. It was a fair and deserved response to you because rather than actually make an argument for your case you chose to use the tactic of "I'm a better person than you because I don't agree with you" which is actually an ad hominem fallacy. I merely exposed your hypocrisy that's all.

I noticed that you still haven't explained your position or pointed out the strawmen that you accused me of

MrAnony1: Also, asking you to provide at least one argument for your position is not arguing for the sake of argument.

I am trying to understand you and your reluctance to explain your stance shows me that you really don't know what you are talking about....

MrAnony1: But hey if you need another petty excuse to run away, feel free to call me an unflattering name and make your exit as usual.

all4naija: @MissMeiya and InesQor

Please, enough of your boring life diaries. No sensible person is willing to read them. Corporate punishment, whatever there is in punishment that is corporate is yet to be seen in beating up a child for some mistake or not paying attention. That is a primitive man's reasoning. It is archaic and should be eliminated from the Nigerian society.

MissMeiya:
I'm going to ignore the terrible sentence structure, and just stick to semantical errors. You used the word "excusably", meaning... able to be justified or forgiven. Then you complained that I didn't explain myself. I guess I'm not excused after all.

MissMeiya:
I cannot even begin to decipher this.

MissMeiya:
Actually, it's because I "read for reading's sake" that I know how to correctly construct sentences. I know I said I wouldn't mention grammar, but I've never seen run-on sentences this bad.

MissMeiya:
Back to semantics. "after ALLEGEDLY claiming my statement is total BS" << What was alleged about my post? Do you know what alleged means? 'without proof, to have taken place'. I made the post. There's nothing alleged about it. If you don't believe me, scroll back up. I promise, it's still there.

'Alleged' in the case connotes not being able to provide a proof to what you claimed my statement to be as a total BS. The BS without explanation is what is allegedly in question. Hahaha...

MissMeiya:
Sorry, grammar again. I can't help it. "forgetting that reading educative material is the more fundamental thing to read than just reading for reading's sake..." Maybe if you read more, these sentences you're writing would make you cringe too. Honestly. This is only PART of ONE sentence. Believe it or not (well, you wrote it, so you should probably believe it), this sentence isn't over.

You mean to say you can't help yourself in this context, not you can help it(although, you can't help it is correct but not in the context you used it).

However, I agree with you concerning that particular sentence to be informal and grammatically wrong. But,my reference is clear enough for you to comprehend what I am talking about, Miss Grammarian.

MissMeiya:
Hold on a goddamn minute. Where are you pulling these words from? You have internet connection, I know you do. There is no reason why you could not look up this word before using it. A scythe is a freaking farm tool. A curved knife. You can have a scythe. You can scythe something. But you cannot LOOK scythe or even BE scythe. Christ have mercy.

Okay! You wrote, 'Hold on a goddamn minute'. Isn't that a sentence in Ghetto's language? Bwahaha.... I can't stop laughing at you as perfectionist. It is nauseating to see you condescending so low and use Ghetto's language to say the least. You don't 'pull' words from something you get or hear words from something or somebody. To answer that question. I am pulling the words from the internet? . You mean to say I know you do have internet connection. Not, you have internet connection, I know you do. It is very conclusive and senseless.

If you don't know to 'scythe' through something is figuratively used by me to connote your condition of total humiliation then you aren't as smart as you think. It is like cutting something down. I don't know why you didn't understand it is a figurative word in that very post.

MissMeiya:
Did I exaggerate my power and reputation, truly? I didn't notice where I did that.

MissMeiya:
The idea that I love to read is absurd and unacceptable to you. Wow. Just wow. Do you not know people in real life who enjoy reading? I'm actually saddened by that. I actually did work in a library, started reading at a young age, and was raised by two educators. So that actually makes me very upset. I buy books for my young cousins for Christmas, even though I know they hate it. That's how much I think everyone should read.

MissMeiya:
Huh? Explaining myself to who? Did you ask me to "explain myself"? Are you sure you're responding to the right person?

MissMeiya:
This is not a debate. You were rude, and I told you to fúck off.

MissMeiya:
(I'm actually starting to get tired of these grammar goofs. I think you're trolling me. But something tells me you actually believe you're some kind of epic wordsmith. So on I go. I'm a freaking saint.) To condescend means to do something in a haughty or patronizing way, as though something is beneath one. So... wrong again.

MissMeiya:
Jesus @$!#$& Christ. Prestidigitation is a sleight of hand magic trick, LITERALLY. As in "digit" meaning "finger".

MissMeiya:
You can't LOOK exonerated. You are or you aren't. To be exonerated is to be absolved from blame of fault or wrongdoing, after due consideration of a case. I'm sorry I missed the trial; what was I charged with?

It is not helping MATTERS. The next part of the sentence doesn't make sense. "It is not helping the kind of person you claim to be here"? Do you know how conjunctions work?

Aww that's sweet. Who was doing the eulogizing? You know eulogized means acclaimed, right?

MissMeiya:
Actually, I'm not currently in childhood. I'd be a damn prodigy, wouldn't I? Last time I checked, diaries were private journals that do not address other people. My post was neither private nor unaddressed. I was addressing someone. And that person wasn't you!

MissMeiya:
Aaaaaand here's where I realized you REALLY cannot read. We have the SAME opinion on this issue. Here's your facepalm.
Also, your argument is actually completely baseless.

Oh, yeah! We are not having the same opinion. I am not going to entertain any of your excuses here. You smart bottom!

MissMeiya:
Ugh. I can't go on any further. I think you've infected me with your hatred of reading.

Congratulations! You've successfully COMPLETELY derailed the thread.... by complaining about derailing the thread! You are a real star.

I would like to formally request that the mods change your username to malapropism.

Don't worry, I'm going to define it for you

malapropism [ mal-uh-prop-iz-uhm ]
the mistaken use of an incorrect word, often with unintentionally amusing effect; an act or habit of misusing words ridiculously

Learn how to use exclamation mark in your posts. Ugh! Bwahaha... I am happy you quite know that I am contagious. The next time you see me in this forum try to run for your dear life because I can infect you with a disease 'of endless talk'.

I can see you are pointing accusing finger at the wrong person on who purposely derailed the thread. You inadvertently admit of derailing the thread in your previous post.

Meanwhile, I am arguably into malapropism. It is one of the things I am prone to in written English. I don't know if it is due to multi-tasking but it is very obvious in my posts. There is nothing you can do about that.

InesQor:

These "boring life diaries" have everything to do with the topic, so I'm not sure what you're on about.

@MissMeiya
Even more interesting! I'll keep my response here terse to prevent further derailing the thread by feeding trolls. Yes, we should continue this conversation later.

Not in the detail of using your personal life experiences to define others. It is preposterous to say the least! You can as well create a thread for that if you thought it is right to talk about your personal childhood activities in a public forum.

Thank you.

all4naija:
Not in the detail of using your personal life experiences to define others. It is preposterous to say the least! You can as well create a thread for that if you thought it is right to talk about your personal childhood activities in a public forum.
Thank you.

InesQor:

Are many opinions not based on "personal life experiences"?

If you don't want to hear opinions on a topic that is based on opinions and personal experiences, then you can log out of Nairaland or go to another thread. Right?

Gracias.

MissMeiya: And I thought he couldn't embarrass himself further. There's nothing more harmful than WILLFUL ignorance. Go ahead, choose not to take correction. Remain where you are.

Oh, yeah! I think you are very funny.There is no way I am going to accept your correction without pointing out your errors as well. We are both guilty of the blame. Don't you blame it on me alone. Bwahaha....

I am always on the move, lady. You don't know anything about me though.

It hurts a little! How are you doing?

all4naija: Okay! I concur on your decision to continue the narrating of your personal life story here. I would gladly read it and comment on it accordingly.

No way I am going to log-out of this forum in a life time.

Eres bienvenido

InesQor:

LOL! Spoken like a true Nairaland addict.

Eres buena gente!