joker5180: he was referring to ' hospital setting" bros

I knw. See eh, d fact say Akintola is a Dr no mean say him no b Pharmacist. Of cos, he should be called a Pharmacist by anyone who feels so but, nt to an extent of a Physician claiming it jst for him.

ogawisdom:

Sometimes I wonder y first degree holders with mere mbbs r called doc as if they ve phds. They shld b called physicians until they advance in their field. D real docs r phd holders.
U can b a doc in any field once u bag a doctorate degree. B educated son

it's called professional doctorate not, research doctorate(Ph. D)

Samgreguc:
it's called professional doctorate not, research doctorate(Ph. D)

Wat r u say at best mbbs being a double degree shld earn a masters n neva a doctorate. This shld b challenged in the future. U shld nt b called doctors wen u don't ve a doctorate but physicians until u get one. A doctor is one who is a philosopher in his area n makes knowledge n nt jst a knowledge consumer lik our medical doctors.

ogawisdom:

Wat r u say at best mbbs being a double degree shld earn a masters n neva a doctorate. This shld b challenged in the future. U shld nt b called doctors wen u don't ve a doctorate but physicians until u get one. A doctor is one who is a philosopher in his area n makes knowledge n nt jst a knowledge consumer lik our medical doctors.

whether two or ten bachelors degree it doesn't give u a master until u do masters cos, if its so what wil u den say of BDS graduate who also bears Dr?
.
.
All am saying is that there is professional doctorate even in art professions and there is research doctorate(Ph. D).

ziga:

In the hospital, the title Doctor is reserved for Physicians.

Our patients do not need any more confusion.

Physicians are called Docs

Nurses are Nurses

Pharmacists are pharmacists

Lab scientists are lab scientists.

Everybody should love and practice their profession!

And whoever does not want to be listening to Docs in a hospital, should get another job or go back to school.

Afterall, lots of people do it. It is okay for people to think they can do better than the Docs we have, just as long as they do it the right way. By going to med school.

u speak trash ... doctor is just a term used..
in medicine....
one hu praxticr surgery Is surgeon
practice physiotherapy is physiotherapist
practice dentristy is dentist
practice gynecology is gynecologist etc
they are all DOCTORS.
In other field one hu have a P.HD is addressed is DOCTOR. even a traditionalist is called a doctor.
wat matter is the field u re as a doctor.
Na jealously de do dem. A dentist does not cry to be called doctor but he actually is a doctor

so they should go and die. them de jealous nurses. go go o other countries nurses are more respected Dan d so called doctors and they even make more money.
nurses do all d work here in Nigeria and doctors just eat the money. nurses are in d hospital 24/7 but doctor mostly come on emergency or on appointment. and u expect a matron hu have served more than 30 yrs to bow down to a doctor of just 6yrs experience. bullshit.

anthney87:

u speak trash ... doctor is just a term used..
in medicine....
one hu praxticr surgery Is surgeon
practice physiotherapy is physiotherapist
practice dentristy is dentist
practice gynecology is gynecologist etc
they are all DOCTORS.
In other field one hu have a P.HD is addressed is DOCTOR. even a traditionalist is called a doctor.
wat matter is the field u re as a doctor.
Na jealously de do dem. A dentist does not cry to be called doctor but he actually is a doctor

so they should go and die. them de jealous nurses. go go o other countries nurses are more respected Dan d so called doctors and they even make more money.
nurses do all d work here in Nigeria and doctors just eat the money. nurses are in d hospital 24/7 but doctor mostly come on emergency or on appointment. and u expect a matron hu have served more than 30 yrs to bow down to a doctor of just 6yrs experience. bullshit.

Dumb!!!

and who says an optometrist is nt a doctor? I'm nt even sure of hw tru ur story might b? I guess u whose a medical corper cn manage eye diseases nd vision anormalies better dan an optometrist? Mtcheew. Waiting for such a situation to arise nd i guess we wldnt hv to talk much bt jst give a test on hw knowledgeable d med wld b in managin eye conditions. Continue in ur treatin malaria nd oda systemic conditions why i focus on d eye health of my patients

[quote author=joker5180] " doctor of medical lab science" is next, I think they are still 'googling' to find out if it is been offered in UK or US[/quote that was so funny , I almost aspirated

ottizz:

A physician is trained to manage patients but not trained to manage a health-system. In fact many physicians are bad managers, not because they are not smart, but because they are not cost-benefit smart. In fact a lot of hospitals in the mid-west of the US has nurses as their COO. This is why a lot of MDs are now going for their MBAs, simply because they were not adequately prepared for management positions in medical school. This current conundrum can be rectified by the government if an office of CEO is created while also retaining the CMD. Chief medical director in its current form is a misnomer. CMD should not be the person in charge of the medical center but rather the person that is responsible for management of the physicians and patients. And this position should only be reserved to the physicians. CMD should be on the same level as the Chief nursing officer (CNO), who is responsible for the management of nurses. Management of the medical center should be reserved to the CEO and COO, and should be based on their experience in hospital management rather than how well one knows the human physiology and anatomy. Anyone, therefore, can be the CEO if qualified.

to follow ur logic, no seasoned professor should become a vice chancellor as long as he/she is not from the department of management and accounting. Infact some NASU members who are themselves graduates shld be more eligible

Zeus777: to follow ur logic, no seasoned professor should become a vice chancellor as long as he/she is not from the department of management and accounting. Infact some NASU members who are themselves graduates shld be more eligible

Unfortunately, you are not following my logic.

ottizz:

Unfortunately, you are not following my logic.

because ur submission is actually devoid of logic

ottizz:

Unfortunately, you are not following my logic.

there should be a CEO of a university too who could b anyone from NASU. Even the court bailiff too should b appointed justice of the Supreme Court and even attorney general. Mtscheeeeew

But come to think of it Universities in Nigeria must be daft, can you imagine at least five of them have the same inept Medical Doctors as their Vice Chancellors,UNN, UI, OAU, LASU and the university in Katsina. The same doctors that JOHESU members say don't have the wer withal to head hospitals are now heading Universities, ASUU must hear of this

Zeus777: there should be a CEO of a university too who could b anyone from NASU. Even the court bailiff too should b appointed justice of the Supreme Court and even attorney general. Mtscheeeeew

What?
Okay, let me break it down for you, as you are still unable to grasp my point. In a health-system there are many things involved. Yes, the ultimate end is patient care, however, there are a lot of things that have to happen correctly in other to get to this ultimate end. It will take someone that is able to deal harmoniously with all the departments so they can all work synchronously to reach this common goal. The departments in a health-system include, but not limited to, nursing, medicine, engineering, pharmacy, janitorial, central supply, security, accounting, information technology, and human resources. This person has to oversee a lot of budgetary issues, patient satisfaction issues, and community awareness and citizenship issues, etc. That is why there is a field called health care administration. If a physician has the vast experience to deal with all these and become the CEO of such a health-system, it will have less to do with his/her medical license but more with his/her managerial expertise. But to have a physician manage the hospital based just on their medical degree is outright ridiculous and will produce no growth for that particular hospital.

ottizz:

What?
Okay, let me break it down for you, as you are still unable to grasp my point. In a health-system there are many things involved. Yes, the ultimate end is patient care, however, there are a lot of things that have to happen correctly in other to get to this ultimate end. It will take someone that is able to deal harmoniously with all the departments so they can all work synchronously to reach this common goal. The departments in a health-system include, but not limited to nursing, medicine, engineering, pharmacy, janitorial, central supply, security, accounting, information technology, and human resources. This person has to oversee a lot of budgetary issues, patient satisfaction issues, and community awareness and citizenship issues, etc. That is why there is a field called health care administration. If a physician has the vast experience to deal with all these and become the CEO of such a health-system, it will have less to do with his/her medical license but more with his/her managerial expertise. But to have a physician manage the hospital based just on their medical degree is outright ridiculous and will produce no growth for that particular hospital.

We keep arguing about this whole CEO situation?

But do you really think that is the problem with Nigeria's health sector?

I need your truthful answer on this.

ziga:

We keep arguing about this whole CEO situation?

But do you really think that is the problem with Nigeria's health sector?

I need your truthful answer on this.

Read my first post on this topic and see my answer to your question.

ottizz:

What?
Okay, let me break it down for you, as you are still unable to grasp my point. In a health-system there are many things involved. Yes, the ultimate end is patient care, however, there are a lot of things that have to happen correctly in other to get to this ultimate end. It will take someone that is able to deal harmoniously with all the departments so they can all work synchronously to reach this common goal. The departments in a health-system include, but not limited to nursing, medicine, engineering, pharmacy, janitorial, central supply, security, accounting, information technology, and human resources. This person has to oversee a lot of budgetary issues, patient satisfaction issues, and community awareness and citizenship issues, etc. That is why there is a field called health care administration. If a physician has the vast experience to deal with all these and become the CEO of such a health-system, it will have less to do with his/her medical license but more with his/her managerial expertise. But to have a physician manage the hospital based just on their medical degree is outright ridiculous and will produce no growth for that particular hospital.

is that what u meant by "breaking it down"?? Very funny. Hv u ever asked urself why the majority of the most prestigious hospitals in the UK and US remain headed by medical doctors?? Look my friend, beyond what u learn in school as far as management is concerned u will pick up what u need to succeed as long as u smart; an average doctor is expected to be smart (true or false?) A specialist Dr has the advantage that he/ she has acquired a deep intuitive knowledge about the core business of their organisations and this helps with decision-making and institutional strategy. Falcone and Satiani (2008) suggest that a physician-leader who has spent years as a medical practitioner has acquired integrity that implies “walking the walk” (2008, p92) This ability enhances a leader’s credibility. Physician-leaders who have greater credibility tend to act as role models for medical staff and their presence also help hospitals to attract talented medical personnel.1. Y is it that hospitals positioned higher in the US News and World Report’s “Best Hospitals” ranking are led disproportionately by physicians. 2. Y are they currently reverting to Dr only CEO under NHS?( since 2008) 3. Y do Nigerians jump to copy others not minding their own peculiarity or even not minding to study the current success or demerit of such policies where they exist . As long as it is existing somewhere around d globe then they just want to copy

ottizz:

Read my first post on this topic and see my answer to your question.

y should he waste his time to read ur first post?? Wasn't it in ur first post u wrote that a CNO should be equal to a CMD!!! That REALY shows the depth of ur knowledge . U didn't even talk about comparing ur CNO to a CMO who in an hospital is still rightfully placed higher on the organogram than ur CNO. Instead u jumped to equate a CNO to a CMD. Y don't u start comparing a warrant officer in the army to a brig general... U funny!

Yet again mr otizzz u are yet to explain why most vice chancellors of universities are not from the department of management!

ottizz:

Read my first post on this topic and see my answer to your question.

Ok. I'll search for it. You search for my first post regarding this topic too and what I'm saying will make sense to you.

ziga:

Ok. I'll search for it. You search for my first post regarding this topic too and what I'm saying will make sense to you.

I have read your first post regarding quackery in the medical profession. I am in total support of your recommendation of real time online access of registered physicians. I must add, for the benefit of the patient also, that physician clinics should not dispense medications unless a licensed pharmacist is present. In fact physician clinics should not be allowed to dispense medications to avoid conflict of interest.

But Ziga, my only reason for posting on this topic is solely on the issue of who should be the head of a hospital. My beef is that some people are saying that this job should be the birthright of the physician, but I am saying that the position should be reserved for the person that has the interpersonal skill and management experience to effectively manage the diverse individuals in an industry that is largely driven by ego.

ottizz:

I have read your first post regarding quackery in the medical profession. I am in total support of your recommendation of real time online access of registered physicians. I must add, for the benefit of the patient also, that physician clinics should not dispense medications unless a licensed pharmacist is present. In fact physician clinics should not be allowed to dispense medications to avoid conflict of interest.

But Ziga, my only reason for posting on this topic is solely on the issue of who should be the head of a hospital. My beef is that some people are saying that this job should be the birthright of the physician, but I am saying that the position should be reserved for the person that has the interpersonal skill and management experience to effectively manage the diverse individuals in an industry that is largely driven by ego.

Haba Mr Ottizz.

Even in yankee, pharmacists give drugs to Doctors for them to dispense to their patients in the office.

There is absolutely no medicine without pharmacology. Please note that I am referring to pharmacology and not pharmacy!!!

What people don't want to agree with, is that medicine incorporates/overlaps all the other departments in health care - Pharmacology, Nursing, Physical therapy, Laboratory medicine etc. to a very large extent.

If you understand that, you wouldn't say that Doctors shouldn't dispense medications.

I am not saying that Doctors do not need pharmacists (Doctors are trained in pharmacology), but Doctors have, and can work where there are no pharmacists with certain limitations.

However, even in situations where Doctors dispense medications, there should be regulations.

If that is what you are trying to say, I agree with you. But do NOT try to reduce the abilities/duties of a doctor to favor your argument.


Regarding heading medical institutions, it is very difficult to make an argument against having an MD head medical institutions because by the virtue of how Docs are trained, the Doctor is the only health professional that plays a central role and interacts with all the other health care professionals.

I agree that somebody with administrative capabilities should make admin decisions. So, we are left with 2 options.

1. Give the MDs that will head hospitals the required "administrative training"
or
2. Hire administrative executives that would do that effectively.

There are advantages and disadvantages regardless of what option we choose. But my bottom line is that regardless of what approach, if the health sector is not funded, and the people who work are not adequately remunerated, nothing will change.