Apatheist:
What are your concerns?

The high number of embryos destroyed during IVF.

AlfaSeltzer:

How does it work?

They do not use that much eggs from the woman.
They take as low as possible, then culture them.
I don't think it's all the eggs that get fertilized.

AlfaSeltzer:

The high number of embryos destroyed during IVF.

I replied you already.
They do not use a lot of eggs, and not all of them are fertilized.

Apatheist:
They do not use that much eggs from the woman.
They take as low as possible, then culture them.
I don't think it's all the eggs that get fertilized.

It's not what you think.

Here are the facts. Doctors take as many eggs as possible from a woman. Average 15. They fertilize as many as possible. Then they implant at least three inside the womb.

So for a hundred women, more than 1000 embroyos are created. At least 300 embryos are implanted. About half of them survive. Then about 120 are aborted to avoid multiple births.

Read up instead of assuming things.

AlfaSeltzer:

It's not what you think.

Here are the facts. Doctors take as many eggs as possible from a woman. Average 15. They fertilize as many as possible. Then they implant at least three inside the womb.

So for a hundred women, more than 1000 embryos are created. At least 300 embryos are implanted. About half of them survive. Then about 120 are aborted to avoid multiple births.

Read up instead of assuming things.

ok

Apatheist:
What are your concerns?

You mean you still do not know?

striktlymi:

You mean you still do not know?

I do now

TheBigUrban2: Striklymi is just dodging.


As usual, his unintelligent christian views have exposed him as someone who doesnt know what he is talking about.


embryo death

AlfaSeltzer:

Stop shaming atheists.

LMAO!!! the Satanist is talking about shaming atheists!!! Irony.


What you people fail to understand is that Striklymi is talking nonsense as usual....he doesnt know that it is very natural for embryos to die during pregnancy. 15%-20% of known pregnancies end up in miscarriage....percentage is higher if we consider unknown pregnancies.


For someone to be concerned about the death of embryos with the artificial pregnancy, it requires a high level of ignorance.

TheBigUrban2:





LMAO!!! the Satanist is talking about shaming atheists!!! Irony.


What you people fail to understand is that Striklymi is talking nonsense as usual....he doesnt know that it is very natural for embryos to die during pregnancy. 15%-20% of known pregnancies end up in miscarriage....percentage is higher if we consider unknown pregnancies.


For someone to be concerned about the death of embryos with the artificial pregnancy, it requires a high level of ignorance.

You are the one talking nonsense. Striktlymi knows very well that embryos die during pregnancy. He considers those natural death and as a xtian, have no problem with natural deaths; which he considers inevitable and as act of god. Other deaths, provoked by man, is murder for him and thus very sinful. This includes death of embryos during IVF.

You are the one exhibiting high level of ignorance here. Should we start killing off old people because old people die naturally anyway? If not, why kill embryos because embryos die naturally anyway? That's what xtians are worried about.

AlfaSeltzer:

You are the one talking nonsense. Striktlymi knows very well that embryos die during pregnancy. He considers those natural death and as a xtian, have no problem with natural deaths; which he considers inevitable and as act of god. Other deaths, provoked by man, is murder for him and thus very sinful. This includes death of embryos during IVF.

You are the one exhibiting high level of ignorance here. Should we start killing off old people because old people die naturally anyway? If not, why kill embryos because embryos die naturally anyway? That's what xtians are worried about.

Embryos are not people. And so, your nonsense analogy about old people is a failure.

TheBigUrban2:


Embryos are not people. And so, your nonsense analogy about old people is a failure.

You are a fool.

I was trying to explain to you how xtians think. Xtians think that embryos are people.
Go back and read the whole thread so you can understand other people's argument. Understanding others doesn't mean you agree with them.

Anyway, according to you, who is people? foetus? zygote? 6 months in the womb? After birth? Please enlighten us?

AlfaSeltzer:

You are a fool.

I was trying to explain to you how xtians think. Xtians think that embryos are people.
Go back and read the whole thread so you can understand other people's argument. Understanding others doesn't mean you agree with them.

Anyway, according to you, who is people? foetus? zygote? 6 months in the womb? After birth? Please enlighten us?

I didnt mean to butthurt you.


Anyhoo, why should I waste my time appealing to a christian nutjob's argument? I understand it but I do not waste time with it!!!



No one knows when an embryo/feotus becomes a human per se.....


But we do know that outside of the womb is a good time to make a demarcation as the baby is not totally dependent on the mother.

TheBigUrban2:



I didnt mean to butthurt you.


Anyhoo, why should I waste my time appealing to a christian nutjob's argument? I understand it but I do not waste time with it!!!



No one knows when an embryo/feotus becomes a human per se.....


But we do know that outside of the womb is a good time to make a demarcation as the baby is not totally dependent on the mother.

When I said you were a fool, it was not out of butthurt but merely a statement of fact.
You have just proved it with your statement. The only thing you have been doing since you joined NL was spending your time appealing to christian nutjobs' arguments.

You have no idea when a human is formed but somebody else has his opinion and you call it nuts.
If your wife is 8 and half months pregnant and I hit her tummy with the intention of killing your unborn baby and killing it, should I be tried for murder (life sentence) or for assault (a few months or fine)?

AlfaSeltzer:

When I said you were a fool, it was not out of butthurt but merely a statement of fact.
You have just proved it with your statement. The only thing you have been doing since you joined NL was spending your time appealing to christian nutjobs' arguments.

Butthurt Satanist is butthurt!!!!!

TheBigUrban2:



Butthurt Satanist is butthurt!!!!!

Projection.

AlfaSeltzer:
You have no idea when a human is formed but somebody else has his opinion and you call it nuts.
If your wife is 8 and half months pregnant and I hit her tummy with the intention of killing your unborn baby and killing it, should I be tried for murder (life sentence) or for assault (a few months or fine)?

No one knows when life truly begins. Stop trying to Anonynize my arguments.

If someone claims that life begins at conception, the person is a liar. No one knows.


If a woman is 1 month pregnant sef, it is murder if a man kills the baby by injuring the woman. The woman didnt ask for an abortion.

AlfaSeltzer:

You are the one talking nonsense. Striktlymi knows very well that embryos die during pregnancy. He considers those natural death and as a xtian, have no problem with natural deaths; which he considers inevitable and as act of god. Other deaths, provoked by man, is murder for him and thus very sinful. This includes death of embryos during IVF.

You are the one exhibiting high level of ignorance here. Should we start killing off old people because old people die naturally anyway? If not, why kill embryos because embryos die naturally anyway? That's what xtians are worried about.

On point!

striktlymi:

On point!

Ode...you actually think he supports your nonsense


He is a satanist............................playing the devils advocate

TheBigUrban2:


No one knows when life truly begins. Stop trying to Anonynize my arguments.

If someone claims that life begins at conception, the person is a liar. No one knows.


If a woman is 1 month pregnant sef, it is murder if a man kills the baby by injuring the woman. The woman didnt ask for an abortion.

So according to you, one can be convicted of murdering a non-human.

TheBigUrban2:


Ode...you actually think he supports your nonsense


He is a satanist............................playing the devils advocate

Why not stop embarrassing yourself?

I saw this before I posted:

AlfaSeltzer:
You are a fool.
I was trying to explain to you how xtians think. Xtians think that embryos are people.
Go back and read the whole thread so you can understand other people's argument. Understanding others doesn't mean you agree with them.
Anyway, according to you, who is people? foetus? zygote? 6 months in the womb? After birth? Please enlighten us?

AlfaSeltzer:

So according to you, one can be convicted of murdering a non-human.

A potential human.

TheBigUrban2:


A potential human.

just like embryos: potential humans.

AlfaSeltzer:

just like embryos: potential humans.

Yes

TheBigUrban2:


Yes

headless chicken.

You just agreed with sricktly that killing embryos could be murder.

AlfaSeltzer:

You are the one talking nonsense. Striktlymi knows very well that embryos die during pregnancy. He considers those natural death and as a xtian, have no problem with natural deaths; which he considers inevitable and as act of god. Other deaths, provoked by man, is murder for him and thus very sinful. This includes death of embryos during IVF.

You are the one exhibiting high level of ignorance here. Should we start killing off old people because old people die naturally anyway? If not, why kill embryos because embryos die naturally anyway? That's what xtians are worried about.

I'm just making this comment to say that you have just gained a whole lot of respect in my eyes. It is always good to see someone who can accurately represent the position of his opponent without necessarily agreeing with them. It makes for a good conversation.

AlfaSeltzer:

headless chicken.

You just agreed with sricktly that killing embryos could be murder.

Is it always murder? No


Stricklymi says it is always murder.



I have told you to stop anonynizing my arguments.......too late!! Anony has seen your sophistry and he praises you (comment above)

Can you spot the bigotted demagogue?

TheBigUrban2:
LMAO!!! the Satanist is talking about shaming atheists!!! Irony.
What you people fail to understand is that Striklymi is talking nonsense as usual....he doesnt know that it is very natural for embryos to die during pregnancy. 15%-20% of known pregnancies end up in miscarriage....percentage is higher if we consider unknown pregnancies.
For someone to be concerned about the death of embryos with the artificial pregnancy, it requires a high level of ignorance.

AlfaSeltzer:

You are the one talking nonsense. Striktlymi knows very well that embryos die during pregnancy. He considers those natural death and as a xtian, have no problem with natural deaths; which he considers inevitable and as act of god. Other deaths, provoked by man, is murder for him and thus very sinful. This includes death of embryos during IVF.

You are the one exhibiting high level of ignorance here. Should we start killing off old people because old people die naturally anyway? If not, why kill embryos because embryos die naturally anyway? That's what xtians are worried about.

TheBigUrban2:
Embryos are not people. And so, your nonsense analogy about old people is a failure.

AlfaSeltzer:
You are a fool.
I was trying to explain to you how xtians think. Xtians think that embryos are people.
Go back and read the whole thread so you can understand other people's argument. Understanding others doesn't mean you agree with them.
Anyway, according to you, who is people? foetus? zygote? 6 months in the womb? After birth? Please enlighten us?

TheBigUrban2:
I didnt mean to butthurt you.
Anyhoo, why should I waste my time appealing to a christian nutjob's argument? I understand it but I do not waste time with it!!!
No one knows when an embryo/feotus becomes a human per se.....
But we do know that outside of the womb is a good time to make a demarcation as the baby is not totally dependent on the mother.

AlfaSeltzer:
When I said you were a fool, it was not out of butthurt but merely a statement of fact.
You have just proved it with your statement. The only thing you have been doing since you joined NL was spending your time appealing to christian nutjobs' arguments.
You have no idea when a human is formed but somebody else has his opinion and you call it nuts.
If your wife is 8 and half months pregnant and I hit her tummy with the intention of killing your unborn baby and killing it, should I be tried for murder (life sentence) or for assault (a few months or fine)?

TheBigUrban2:
Butthurt Satanist is butthurt!!!!!

TheBigUrban2:
No one knows when life truly begins. Stop trying to Anonynize my arguments.
If someone claims that life begins at conception, the person is a liar. No one knows.
If a woman is 1 month pregnant sef, it is murder if a man kills the baby by injuring the woman. The woman didnt ask for an abortion.

AlfaSeltzer:
So according to you, one can be convicted of murdering a non-human.

TheBigUrban2:
A potential human.

AlfaSeltzer:
just like embryos: potential humans.

TheBigUrban2:
Yes

AlfaSeltzer:
headless chicken.
You just agreed with sricktly that killing embryos could be murder.

TheBigUrban2:
Is it always murder? No
Stricklymi says it is always murder.
I have told you to stop anonynizing my arguments.......too late!! Anony has seen your sophistry and he praises you (comment above)

AlfaSeltzer:
When, in your opinion, is killing an embryo murder?

TheBigUrban2:
When you kill a pregnant woman. double homicide/murder
If the woman chooses an abortion. Not murder
If the woman chooses to participate in artificial pregnancy. Not murder
Is it clear to you what I am saying now?

TheBigUrban2:


Is it always murder? No


Stricklymi says it is always murder.



I have told you to stop anonynizing my arguments.......too late!! Anony has seen your sophistry and he praises you (comment above)

When, in your opinion, is killing an embryo murder?

AlfaSeltzer:

When, in your opinion, is killing an embryo murder?

When you kill a pregnant woman. double homicide/murder

If the woman chooses an abortion. Not murder

If the woman chooses to participate in artificial pregnancy. Not murder


Is it clear to you what I am saying now?

TheBigUrban2:


When you kill a pregnant woman. double homicide/murder

If the woman chooses an abortion. Not murder

If the woman chooses to participate in artificial pregnancy. Not murder


Is it clear to you what I am saying now?

Special pleading.

So according to you, it is murder for everyone else but the woman is miraculously exempt from the charge when she does it.

TheBigUrban2:


When you kill a pregnant woman. double homicide/murder

If the woman chooses an abortion. Not murder

If the woman chooses to participate in artificial pregnancy. Not murder


Is it clear to you what I am saying now?

Right. I think I get you.
The embryo gets human rights when it is inside a woman and the woman wants to keep it. Under any other circumstances, it cannot be considered human. Yes?

MrAnony1:
Special pleading.

So according to you, it is murder for everyone else but the woman is miraculously exempt from the charge when she does it.

1) The embro/foetus is a part of the woman. Unless you have been nourishing it for weeks, I think you should allow the woman to decide its fate.

2) Everyone else is also exempt from the charge of nourishing the embryo/feotus...so the pleading isnt miraculous or special or even pleading.