pilgrim how body?

affee:

pilgrim how body?

My dear, I'm cool and thank God for His grace. And you? Hope all is going great for you (trusting you feel much better now since the last we talked . . you were down?). Bless you.

@pilgrim
Sweetness I am not living my life by the examples of any one, you are.
I do not have a book written by atheists that I have dubbed holy and absolute truth, but you have.
Is atheism better than practicing religion, I really don't know.
Have there been atheists that murdered people in the name of atheism, yes loads of em.
Does it make what they have done right, hell no, but do you agree that moses's orchestrated killings were wrong, no you don't.
Would I want to follow the ways in which these atheists lived their lives, hell no. Do you follow the way the jews worship God, yes you do.
There is a big difference my dear, and you know it. There is no code for atheists to live their lives, there is for you.
Atheists that murdered people are responsible for their actions, God is responsible for the killings in the bible.
I don't even like those killers, talk less of worship them. Do you worship the hebrew God?
I think you do. :-)
Cheers.

I feel great

my friend dedicated her baby in church today
and the after party was great _{so much to eat so much to drink}

pilgrim.1:

You don't need to reconcile anything - we are waiting to see how atheism (the same atheism) has been any better than this glib joke you guys pretend not to notice. "Killings" - is not a strange word in atheistic history as well: and why have you guys not ceased being human beings on that note?

Your argument falls flat here reason is that athiest have never claimed to be guided by a force of goodness,kindness,love and justice. . . The biblical god claims he is all loving,just,kind,moral and forgiving but when you read the bible you find so many places where he is completely not loving , not kind, not just and not moral, how do you reconcile all these? No athiest has claimed that he is guided by any set of defined laws or authority. . . in religion especially chriatianity and islam god is the moral and ultimate authority that controls the discussion, how do you understand and reconcile a god as the ultimate power of authority and control when he tells people not to kill in one passage and tells people to kill(including the innocent) in another?

Athiest have no question to answer because no athiest has ever claimed that his ideas or philosophy are the ultimate. . .  christains have claimed that their god is the only way and truth hence they have to expain why the only truth encourages people to lie sometimes in the bible? they have to explain why the greatest source of love which they believe their god is will commanded people to kill each other for very trivial issues like picking sticks on the sabbath or lack of worship. christains will have to expain why a just god who they believe to be the ultimate source of justice will tell people to kill the innocent even babies sometimes in the bible. christains will have to explain how a just god who is the ultimate source of justice transfers the sins of parents unto their innocent children. . . . . No atheist has to expain the actions and atrocities of Moa of china because he has never said that he is the ultimate truth, hitler has never said that he is the greatest source of justice and love, no athiest has ever claimed to be the ultimate souce of love and kindness. . .  the biblical god did and hence when he exihibits virtues that are very contrary to that which he says he is then his veracity has to be put into question. . . not that i believe that he exist but if he does then why is he very contradictory?. . . . . .

@Chrisbenogor,

Chrisbenogor:

@pilgrim
Sweetness I am not living my life by the examples of any one, you are.

Meaning. . . I have come over to kill you, yes? You see how silly this roundabout argument comes across every single time?

Chrisbenogor:

I do not have a book written by atheists that I have dubbed holy and absolute truth, but you have.

And that should mean I as a Christian was madated to kill you, Chris?

Chrisbenogor:

Is atheism better than practicing religion, I really don't know.

Hahaha!! You're so funny! Bros, a middle position of agnostic "I don't know" is not a viable one - sheepish at best. It seems a comfortable one, but it has hardly stood its own waters anyday. Sorry, but I knew you would wave that as first aid.

Chrisbenogor:

Have there been atheists that murdered people in the name of atheism, yes loads of em.

Em, mazaje. . take note and disgest, eh? Your eyes have always been sharp to point accusing fingers, and you delight so much to pass glibly over this fact, not so? Well done.

Chrisbenogor:

Does it make what they have done right, hell no, but do you agree that moses's orchestrated killings were wrong, no you don't.

When have you seen me enter every discussion with atheists on that same note? The reason why I decided to enter this discussion even lately is to see if atheism actually presents anything better than an incurable complaint while we constantly continue to witness atheistic murders in the world today. "God did this-and-that-and-the-other" . . we hear. End result - that because of these issues, I should then choose to be what? An atheist? and then have to face up with an even more serious dilemma on the same complaint?

Chrisbenogor:

Would I want to follow the ways in which these atheists lived their lives, hell no. Do you follow the way the jews worship God, yes you do.

I should take that as a delirious joke, Chrisbenogor. Have I as a Christian come after you with a threat to kill you? If not, where is this joke coming from? As if to worship God is all about killing people? When are you guys going to even for one moment be honest to your own hearts?

Chrisbenogor:

There is a big difference my dear, and you know it. There is no code for atheists to live their lives, there is for you.

Have I ever anywhere spelt out a code for atheist to live their lives by? WHO has been saying such things as "it is not in my place to define how other people should live their lives"? And no wonder - if the atheist has no code, does that not undergird the point I have been making that even without any such codes, atheistic murders are a reality that is as shocking? You guys seem to play this joke every single time - complain and whinge about religious warfare. . . and then come back making an even weaker case for atheism even without a code? haa!

Chrisbenogor:

Atheists that murdered people are responsible for their actions, God is responsible for the killings in the bible.

yea, and all you see that worries you day-in-day-out is to bother yourself with the God-factor, but too shy to use the same energy to debate atheistic murders. Thank you.

Chrisbenogor:

I don't even like those killers, talk less of worship them.

Too weak a cover for the atheist game. . . any better excuse?

Chrisbenogor:

Do you worship the hebrew God?
I think you do. :-)

Yes, I do - and I have said that no matter the ridicule and slobbers, I stand to honestly confess my faith in Him - it does not cost much to be honest, Chris. . . as a Christian, my life is not about killing you, is it?

Regards.

@mazaje,

mazaje:

Your argument falls flat here reason is that athiest have never claimed to be guided by a force of goodness,kindness,love and justice.

This is the dumbest thing I ever heard this decade! Don't you have eyes to see how worse your case is? You are not guided by force of anything (goodness, kindness, love and justice) and you make a career educating others how to go about living by them? Even without any such force, your own case for atheistic murder is so dumb. At least, if one was guided by a force (whatever that is) to commit the things you complain about, how in the world do we understand that without that same or any force, there's blood dripping from atheistic hands?

You go on and on about this case, and yet we don't see you make any intelligent case for your worries. well done.

Lmao
My my pilgrim certainly you can do better than what you just did. Let me start from the bottom of your post,
Is you life as a Christian about killing me, NO IT IS NOT.
Now how about you apply that same honesty to your reply, was it honest to ascertain that I meant your life as a christian was to kill ?
Do that and we can treat the rest of your answer.

pilgrim.1:

@mazaje,

This is the dumbest thing I ever heard this decade! Don't you have eyes to see how worse your case is? You are not guided by force of anything (goodness, kindness, love and justice) and you make a career educating others how to go about living by them? Even without any such force, your own case for atheistic murder is so dumb. At least, if one was guided by a force (whatever that is) to commit the things you complain about, how in the world do we understand that without that same or any force, there's blood dripping from atheistic hands?

You go on and on about this case, and yet we don't see you make any intelligent case for your worries. well done.

you understood very well what i was saying but you prefer to not discuss it but erupt in a wild distortion of what i laid down. . . . . simple question for you pilgrim how can your god claim that he is the greatest source of love and justice but turn around and kill, tell others to kill even the innocent for trivial reasons like merely looking at something or for no reason at all as recorded in the bible, how can he say that he is just when he punishes innocent children for the sins of their parents? all his actions are in his holy book called the bible. . .

Chrisbenogor:

Is you life as a Christian about killing me, NO IT IS NOT.

Then what was the meaning of this fib:

Chrisbenogor:

Do you follow the way the jews worship God, yes you do.

How could you be so overbearing as to suggest that when you should know better? This whole matter has been on one thing: atheists here so far see only one thing in their binoculars tonight: "killings". It has been either about "killing apostates". .  or "killing other nations" . . or "killing" this and that other group of people - and then you come back feeding that same idea as if the way to worship God as a Jew was about killings (even though i'm not a Jew under Judaism)?

If the thread had been about something else, I'm sure you would not have jumped in here hooting:

Me I am with mazaje all the way on this one

. . as if mazaje's complaints have been any better or other than the same subject of killings - until you made it clear for him that atheists hands are dripping with blood as well, No?

@mazaje,

mazaje:

you understood very well what i was saying but you prefer to not discuss it but erupt in a wild distortion of what i laid down

Don't pat yourself on the back with such cheap self-congratulations. The fact that I can choose to roundly ignore rants from such fissures as yours does not mean that there was anything you had that was better than your previous entries. If you wanted to discuss, you would not start out in your previous post saying "Your argument falls flat here" as if you had said anything better. So, when I chose to consign your rants to the bin, e dey pain you? I still dey wait to see how you wan wipe blood comot for atheists hands.

Great contributions guys. I am enjoying it, except for the bit where atheism is being dragged in again, kicking and screaming.

Is it really ever possible to examine the claims of the religionists for ant sense of verisimilitude without them turn the tables? This thread was meant to question the claims of the believers of the bible. If the bible contains "truth" should it not be possible to determine that fact without some other distracting accusatory charges?

Do you follow the way the jews worship God, yes you do.

Ok sorry if that came out the wrong way I did not mean it like that, it was a general statement, how can I want christians to kill nooooooooooo ohhhhhhhhhhhh
Don't be pissed, I meant like the ten commandments and some other stuff that you learn by.

Me I am with mazaje all the way on this one. That is what I have been trying to reconcile for a very long time.

If you only took the second sentence a little bit more serious, I meant reconciling that God would order those things in the OT to the JEWS and not to the christians and that you still believed in the same God, surely you took some things out of context here.

Can you answer me question now

huxley:

Great contributions guys. I am enjoying it, except for the bit where atheism is being dragged in again, kicking and screaming.

Lol. . I knew this was coming! See what I meant by "you guys are quick to protest"?   Okay, hux. . just enjoy, eh?


Edit.

huxley:

Is it really ever possible to examine the claims of the religionists for ant sense of verisimilitude without them turn the tables? This thread was meant to question the claims of the believers of the bible. If the bible contains "truth" should it not be possible to determine that fact without some other distracting accusatory charges?

I think that if you're passionate for truth and you need to question any worldviews on the premise of those same charges you bring against Christians (termed by you as "religionists", then that same honesty requires that you spend as much time looking at the same problem in the hands of atheists as well. To shy away from doing so should tell us that you're not as passionate to face up this matter without prejudice. If all that has been said could be said (barbaric, cruel, inhumane, etc) about the Biblical case, could not be said about atheists who are also in the same dilemma, then something is seriously wrong somewhere. If not, then spend the same time and energy slurring atheists as well with the same passion - that too much to ask, huxley? And it doesn't matter whether they dunnit by a code or vacancy of conscience - just spend as much time, energy and grammar doing the same.

mazaje:

you understood very well what i was saying but you prefer to not discuss it but erupt in a wild distortion of what i laid down. . . . .

simple question for you pilgrim how can your god claim that he is the greatest source of love and justice but turn around and kill, tell others to kill even the innocent for trivail reasons like looking at something or for no reason at all as recorded in the bible, how can he say that he is just when he punishes innocent children for the sins of their parents? all his actions are in his holy book called the bible. . .

My God will only do such a thing to people who are convinced that evil should go unpunished. But that was the 'jewish god' anyway, the very one who had not yet revealed his secret plan for mankind i.e to unite all mankind Jews and Gentiles by making them partakers of his grace. Go over those verses you think God was cruel and ask yourself if he meted punishment to good people who never caused harm and destruction.

Due to the hardness of their hearts (jewish people) he made laws that were meant to order their steps according to his will. All the laws no matter how harsh they may have been were meant to force his people to obey and serve him since he had made a covenant with Abraham to preserve this people.

The gift of the holy spirit which would have made them love and keep his commandments without being coerced had not yet been given and that was why he sent his son.

This same God is unchangeable because there is no contradiction in his ways what seems to be contradictions are the ranting imaginations of the , you know who.

@Chrisbenogor,

Chrisbenogor:

Ok sorry if that came out the wrong way I did not mean it like that, it was a general statement, how can I want christians to kill nooooooooooo ohhhhhhhhhhhh
Don't be pissed, I meant like the ten commandments and some other stuff that you learn by.

No worries, no toothaches. Just thought issues should not be confused, abi?

Chrisbenogor:

If you only took the second sentence a little bit more serious, I meant reconciling that God would order those things in the OT to the JEWS and not to the christians and that you still believed in the same God, surely you took some things out of context here.

Sorry if I took anything out of contexts. I could still believe in the same God, for it was not the warfares that eventually settled my decision to be a Christian. That is why I have wondered aloud that if there were no God, would being an atheist "prove" that there's any substance to the argument of this thread? Just incase: after all this back and forth arguments and complaints, what do you guys hope to achive from all this?

Chrisbenogor:

Can you answer me question now

As above?

The god of the Christians (aka Jesus) is supposed to have advocated or said the following:

1)  I did not come to bring peace BUT a SWORD.

2)   Do NOT go into the towns of the Gentiles

3)   I was sent to the lose sheep of the house of Israel

4)   Abandon your family and follow me.

5)  Caused suffering to innocent animals by inflicting demons on them

6)  Advocated the killing of recalcitrant children

7)  Advocated  and upheld the laws of the Old Testament

8-)  Advocated eternity in hell

9)  Advocated a life without planning for the morrow

10)  Advocated passiveness to unwarranted aggression and oppression.

11)  Killed an innocent tree for not having fruits out of season

13)  Advocated the maiming of bodily parts to avoid sin.



How many of the above do Christians today adhere to?  If not, why do they not adhere to the injunctions of their god.  What is their basis for picking & choosing?

Sorry if I took anything out of contexts. I could still believe in the same God, for it was not the warfares that eventually settled my decision to be a Christian. That is why I have wondered aloud that if there were no God, would being an atheist "prove" that there's any substance to the argument of this thread? Just incase: after all this back and forth arguments and complaints, what do you guys hope to achive from all this?

Knew you would come through, told you what I try to achieve before no need to re hash it enjoy.

paulipopo:

My God will only do such a thing to people who are convinced that evil should go unpunished. But that was the 'jewish god' anyway, the very one who had not yet revealed his secret plan for mankind i.e to unite all mankind Jews and Gentiles by making them partakers of his grace. Go over those verses you think God was cruel and ask yourself if he meted punishment to good people who never caused harm and destruction.

Due to the hardness of their hearts (jewish people) he made laws that were meant to order their steps according to his will. All the laws no matter how harsh they may have been were meant to force his people to obey and serve him since he had made a covenant with Abraham to preserve this people.

The gift of the holy spirit which would have made them love and keep his commandments without being coerced had not yet been given and that was why he sent his son.

This same God is unchangeable because there is no contradiction in his ways what seems to be contradictions are the ranting imaginations of the , you know who.

Does any of this suggest that your omniscient god knows what he is doing?   He goes about his bumbling business, not planning for the errors he has already made, only to have to rush later and rejig to rescue an already doomed mission.

By that way, who gets in the business of hardening hearts?  Is it not god?   There are many places in the bible where he hardens the hearts of people so that they would disobey him, and then he comes along and destroys them.   What sort of god is this?

Chrisbenogor:

Knew you would come through, told you what I try to achieve before no need to re hash it enjoy.

Suspected it would play out that way. Cheers.

huxley:

The god of the Christians (aka Jesus) is supposed to have advocated or said the following:

1) I did not come to bring peace BUT a SWORD.

2) Do NOT go into the towns of the Gentiles

3) I was sent to the lose sheep of the house of Israel

4) Abandon your family and follow me.

5) Caused suffering to innocent animals by inflicting demons on them

6) Advocated the killing of recalcitrant children

7) Advocated and upheld the laws of the Old Testament

8-) Advocated eternity in hell

9) Advocated a life without planning for the morrow

10) Advocated passiveness to unwarranted aggression and oppression.

11) Killed an innocent tree for not having fruits out of season

13) Advocated the maiming of bodily parts to avoid sin.



How many of the above do Christians today adhere to? If not, why do they not adhere to the injunctions of their god. What is their basis for picking & choosing?

@Huxley

I would love to reply you but please do well to quote relevant biblical verses for reference. This is in order to pick out the right context and put things in their proper perspectives.

huxley:

Does any of this suggest that your omniscient god knows what he is doing?   He goes about his bumbling business, not planning for the errors he has already made, only to have to rush later and rejig to rescue an already doomed mission.

Atheists are not omniscient, we agree. They don't make any claim to morality etc. We grant that. But this hubris to be always harping on others' "bumbling business" and pretending not to have noticed the atheistc blooper with blood dripping in their hands (without a moral claim) smarks of tartuffery, No? I don't see how your claim to invite a discussion is consistent here. Well done.

pilgrim.1:

Atheists are not omniscient, we agree. They don't make any claim to morality etc. We grant that. But this hubris to be always harping on others' "bumbling business" and pretending not to have noticed the atheistc blooper with blood dripping in their hands (without a moral claim) smarks of tartuffery, No? I don't see how your claim to invite a discussion is consistent here. Well done.

This is not about atheism. It is about examining the claims of the bible.

smarks of tartuffery

This girl and english sha

Chrisbenogor:

This girl and english sha

Hmm, dem don konk me tire for my diction. henceforth, I go mellow. . what do you say?

paulipopo:

@Huxley

I would love to reply you but please do well to quote relevant biblical verses for reference. This is in order to pick out the right context and put things in their proper perspectives.

You can start with these, baba:

1) I did not come to bring peace BUT a SWORD. (Matthew 10:34)

2) Do NOT go into the towns of the Gentiles (Matt 10: 5)

3) I was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:22-28)

4) Abandon your family and follow me. (Matt 8:21, Matt 10:21. Matt 10: 34-37, Matt 19: 29, Matt 23:9
Matt 24: 19, Mark 10: 29 - 30,

5) Caused suffering to innocent animals by inflicting demons on them (Matt 8:28; Mark 5:1; Luke 8:26
)

6) Advocated the killing of recalcitrant children

7) Advocated and upheld the laws of the Old Testament (Matt 5)

8-) Advocated eternity in hell

9) Advocated a life without planning for the morrow (Matt 6: 31- 34)

10) Advocated passiveness to unwarranted aggression and oppression.

11) Killed an innocent tree for not having fruits out of season

13) Advocated the maiming of bodily parts to avoid sin.

huxley:


You can start with these, baba:

1) I did not come to bring peace BUT a SWORD. (Matthew 10:34)

2) Do NOT go into the towns of the Gentiles (Matt 10: 5)

3) I was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:22-28)

4) Abandon your family and follow me. (Matt 8:21, Matt 10:21. Matt 10: 34-37, Matt 19: 29, Matt 23:9
Matt 24: 19, Mark 10: 29 - 30,

5) Caused suffering to innocent animals by inflicting demons on them (Matt 8:28; Mark 5:1; Luke 8:26
)

6) Advocated the killing of recalcitrant children

7) Advocated and upheld the laws of the Old Testament (Matt 5)

8-) Advocated eternity in hell

9) Advocated a life without planning for the morrow (Matt 6: 31- 34)

10) Advocated passiveness to unwarranted aggression and oppression.

11) Killed an innocent tree for not having fruits out of season

13) Advocated the maiming of bodily parts to avoid sin.

huxley:

This is not about atheism. It is about examining the claims of the bible.

Of course. . haven't I heard that "examining the claims" repeatedly? And the result should be. . ?

Pilgrim, how many of these do you live by and advocate?

1) I did not come to bring peace BUT a SWORD. (Matthew 10:34)

2) Do NOT go into the towns of the Gentiles (Matt 10: 5)

3) I was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:22-28)

4) Abandon your family and follow me. (Matt 8:21, Matt 10:21. Matt 10: 34-37, Matt 19: 29, Matt 23:9
Matt 24: 19, Mark 10: 29 - 30,

5) Caused suffering to innocent animals by inflicting demons on them (Matt 8:28; Mark 5:1; Luke 8:26
)

6) Advocated the killing of recalcitrant children

7) Advocated and upheld the laws of the Old Testament (Matt 5)

8-) Advocated eternity in hell

9) Advocated a life without planning for the morrow (Matt 6: 31- 34)

10) Advocated passiveness to unwarranted aggression and oppression.

11) Killed an innocent tree for not having fruits out of season

13) Advocated the maiming of bodily parts to avoid sin.

huxley:

Pilgrim, how many of these do you live by and advocate?

I asked a simple question, and if the best thing to keep doing is to be so passionate pretending not to notice, would I be obliged to keep playing these games? Is that what one should be tends to being honest?

pilgrim.1:

I asked a simple question, and if the best thing to keep doing is to be so passionate pretending not to notice, would I be obliged to keep playing these games? Is that what one should be tends to being honest?

Sorry, what question did you ask? I did not intend to avoid it. Can you restate it, pls?

huxley:

Sorry, what question did you ask? I did not intend to avoid it. Can you restate it, please?

Could you just tell me what you hope to gain from this exercise?

pilgrim.1:

Could you just tell me what you hope to gain from this exercise?

Help rid the world of falsehoods which for many generation have been the scourge of humankind.