truthman2012:

You are a biased judge with subjective judgements. You believe the long essay you copied on the internet coined against Paul, using his writings. You believe Paul's words when quoted to oppose him but you don't believe the same Paul's words when they are to his credit.

It is people like you who think they can pull Christianity down that can take you seriously. Your exercise is total futility.

Jesus said '' I will build my church and the GATES of hell shall not prevail against it'' (Mat. 16:18).

Nothing, not even satan's direct attack (no gates) can
pull down the Church of Jesus. Your efforts is so minute when compared to what haters of the gospel had done from generations to generations, yet they failed.

If don't believe Paul, do you believe other apostles? I know your answer is 'NO'. It shows your problem is not Paul but the Gospel of Jesus.

If you don't believe Paul, do you believe in Jesus? I know your answer is 'NO'. It shows your problem is not Paul but the Lord's Gospel.

Keep wasting your time. Smh!

My Judgement is not bias and subjective my dear, If Paul has no witness and the Account of his miracles were by him and his secretary it only says one thing about Paul, Hes not nothing but a lair . 2. What you called Long Essay made sense or not? 3. I believe The other disciples not Paul and his Gospel. Believing in Jesus is another debate if u mean as told and described by someone who knew nothing about him NO.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

truthman2012:

You are a biased judge with subjective judgements. You believe the long essay you copied on the internet coined against Paul, using his writings. You believe Paul's words when quoted to oppose him but you don't believe the same Paul's words when they are to his credit.

It is people like you who think they can pull Christianity down that can take you seriously. Your exercise is total futility.

Jesus said '' I will build my church and the GATES of hell shall not prevail against it'' (Mat. 16:18).

Nothing, not even satan's direct attack (no gates) can
pull down the Church of Jesus. Your efforts is so minute when compared to what haters of the gospel had done from generations to generations, yet they failed.

If don't believe Paul, do you believe other apostles? I know your answer is 'NO'. It shows your problem is not Paul but the Gospel of Jesus.

If you don't believe Paul, do you believe in Jesus? I know your answer is 'NO'. It shows your problem is not Paul but the Lord's Gospel.

Keep wasting your time. Smh!

So you expect me to trust someone who avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus, in fact even mentioning it. If we had to rely on Paul, we should not know that Jesus taught in parables, had delivered the sermon on the mount, and had taught His disciples the 'Our Father.' Even where they are specially relevant, Paul passes over the words of the Jesus and that of God. so?

macof:

Oh believe me when I say Christians are as dumb as dogs.
Dogs are of lesser intelligence than normal humans, Christians are of lesser intelligence than normal humans

Believing in flying horses, talking snakes and donkeys, virgin pregnancy, Sun rotating around the earth, Sun stopping for a day, moon and Sun created on the same day etc.

You all need psychological help.

Anything that rejects logic and the gift intelligence is not worth it.
There are many religions that are built on the urge to acquire knowledge but christianity and Islam would rather have u be as dumb as a monkey

What has christianity and Islam done to Africa? Africans used to be better than this.

May our ancestors save us from the destruction of our land and identity

What has christianity done?I'm sure your parents attended missionary schools even if you didn't and they are the main reason why you can even type on the keyboard as you've just done.
You can stick with what you know but don't rubbish what you have no understanding of.

thorpido: What has christianity done?I'm sure your parents attended missionary schools even if you didn't and they are the main reason why you can even type on the keyboard as you've just done.
You can stick with what you know but don't rubbish what you have no understanding of.

Mogbe! , cant stop laughing....its interesting that my post is hurting you but not intentions by dear, my intent was to bring people with great wisdom and understanding into a topic that concerns many of us. The truth is Christianity as a religion is hogwash, make findings your self and stop being a cry baby. Education was in Africa before the whole of Europe knew how to write, you are one of the stupid folks that praise Europe for getting you out of your so called dark ages. LOL I would not have been educated talk-less of using a PC if not for your lying Uncle Paul. . Get a grip.

deScifa:

My Judgement is not bias and subjective my dear, If Paul has no witness and the Account of his miracles were by him and his secretary it only says one thing about Paul, Hes not nothing but a lair . 2. What you called Long Essay made sense or not? 3. I believe The other disciples not Paul and his Gospel. Believing in Jesus is another debate if u mean as told and described by someone who knew nothing about him NO.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Do you believe other apostles?

Do you believe Jesus?

truthman2012:

Do you believe other apostles?

Do you believe Jesus?

I believe other Apostles and i believe Jesus

It is despicable for a Nigerian man/woman to believe that they are among world civilization because of colonization and religious indoctrination in the year 2014.... Go study precolonial "Nigerian" history you miserable bas.tards..!!

I say a resounding DEATH TO ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY IN Nigeria..! Ashe..!

deScifa:

I believe other Apostles and i believe Jesus

If you are sincere to your belief you should not be accusing Paul because other apostles agreed with his statements and teachings. They worked with him and called him their brother. Are you not sounding contradictory?

None of the other apostles you said you believe accused him of wrongdoings. Do you know better than them?

If you believe other apostles you should accept Paul as they accepted him.

truthman2012:

If you are sincere to your belief you should not be accusing Paul because other apostles agreed with his statements and teachings. They worked with him and called him their brother. Are you not sounding contradictory?

None of the other apostles you said you believe accused him of wrongdoings. Do you know better than them?

If you believe other apostles you should accept Paul as they accepted him.

Who are who agreed with Paul....? Paul and his recruits, luke, timothy and co.....? Even Barnabas letter left him so what are u saying? if u are talking about him working with Peter, Mark and the rest u are so wrong my dear....make your findings plus tell me where in the Bible and pls dont quote Paul and his disciples. Thanks

macof:

You should also test the words of guru Maharaj

no thank u. Am for paul because he is for jesus christ.

SonOfEl:

no thank u. Am for paul because he is for jesus christ.

You are for Paul, Paul who is not for Jesus, Jesus who is not God.

you are spiritually dead I tell you

deScifa:

Mogbe! , cant stop laughing....its interesting that my post is hurting you but not intentions by dear, my intent was to bring people with great wisdom and understanding into a topic that concerns many of us. The truth is Christianity as a religion is hogwash, make findings your self and stop being a cry baby. Education was in Africa before the whole of Europe knew how to write, you are one of the stupid folks that praise Europe for getting you out of your so called dark ages. LOL I would not have been educated talk-less of using a PC if not for your lying Uncle Paul. . Get a grip.

You're sure very silly.Did i in any of my posts insult you?
Jesus is dead and risen and is alive for evermore.Paul has left the earth and cannot feel a thing anymore.
You are the one on the earth dealing with the issues of the earth and uncertain about your life after the earth.
Keep swimming in your delusion.

*unfollows thread*

thorpido: What has christianity done?I'm sure your parents attended missionary schools even if you didn't and they are the main reason why you can even type on the keyboard as you've just done.
You can stick with what you know but don't rubbish what you have no understanding of.

Perhaps you should convert to Islam. After all it is from the Arabs and the Moors that Europeans, your teachers, got their education and scientific knowledge. Even the numerals that you use to do simple 1 plus 1 equals 2, which I believe we all learnt in school, this was given to us by the muslim arabs. So if Education was your reason for becoming a christian then kuku go to the source and convert to islam.

PastorAIO:

Perhaps you should convert to Islam. After all it is from the Arabs and the Moors that Europeans, your teachers, got their education and scientific knowledge. Even the numerals that you use to do simple 1 plus 1 equals 2, which I believe we all learnt in school, this was given to us by the muslim arabs. So if Education was your reason for becoming a christian then kuku go to the source and convert to islam.

If your mom brought food from a party and you eat and enjoy it,who do you appreciate?

Common sense!

macof:

You are for Paul, Paul who is not for Jesus, Jesus who is not God.

you are spiritually dead I tell you

not that i cant reply your rants, i believe ignoring your thread will save my time for productive things. I do not cast my pearls before swines, or give my meat to dogs. Nuff said.

SonOfEl:

not that i cant reply your rants, i believe ignoring your thread will save my time for productive things. I do not cast my pearls before swines, or give my meat to dogs. Nuff said.

all these insults because I said the truth.
Damn! The truth is truly bitter

SonOfEl:

not that i cant reply your rants, i believe ignoring your thread will save my time for productive things. I do not cast my pearls before swines, or give my meat to dogs. Nuff said.

Where you pass get pearls...? this is 2014.. Man no dey wear pearls.. Abi you be homo for Christ ni?

macof:

all these insults because I said the truth.
Damn! The truth is truly bitter

truth? You call your rants truth? *shakes head in pity*

GooseBaba:

Where you pass get pearls...? this is 2014.. Man no dey wear pearls.. Abi you be homo for Christ ni?

see me see otondo o...! *leaves thread*

thorpido: If your mom brought food from a party and you eat and enjoy it,who do you appreciate?

Common sense!

Whats the correlations between the Topic of discussion and food. The facts that u brought your mom into this says alot about your person. Omo lasan ikeji aja

deScifa:

Whats the correlations between the Topic of discussion and food. The facts that u brought your mom into this says alot about your person. Omo lasan ikeji aja

You are so dumb,you don't even know what explaining with an example means.So you are so poor with comprehension?No wonder!

Omo lasan ikeji aja.......that's what your people call you right?

thorpido: You are so dumb,you don't even know what explaining with an example means.So you are so poor with comprehension?No wonder!

Omo lasan ikeji aja.......that's what your people call you right?

U are nothing but the dumb as5..... Caucasian wanna be who is so good with comprehension but never opened to logic....deluded f0ol....so your moms plate of food was the only thing u could bring to the table after someone just schooled u about the origin of what you called western education.... Stup!d1ty is your second name.

deScifa:

U are nothing but the dumb as5..... Caucasian wanna be who is so good with comprehension but never opened to logic....deluded f0ol....so your moms plate of food was the only thing u could bring to the table after someone just schooled u about the origin of what you called western education.... Stup!d1ty is your second name.

This will be my last post to you because there is no point trading words with someone as dumb as you.You don't even understand comprehension,not to talk of comprehending what is written.

No wonder Apostle Paul's letters got you so confused!

Calling you a f0ol will just be repeating the obvious.
You made Stup1dity your own FIRST name.

thorpido: This will be my last post to you because there is no point trading words with someone as dumb as you.You don't even understand comprehension,not to talk of comprehending what is written.

No wonder Apostle Paul's letters got you so confused!

Calling you a f0ol will just be repeating the obvious.
You made Stup1dity your own FIRST name.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, you wouldn't dare reply me cos you lack logic and the reasoning ability to do that. Keep living in your delusion.

thorpido: If your mom brought food from a party and you eat and enjoy it,who do you appreciate?

Common sense!

Hmm.. sounds like a trick question. Let me see....

Ans: God!!!

deScifa:
■ Paul begins telling the Galatians of his contacts with the Jerusalem Messianic leaders in Galatians 1:18. Just before this, in verses 11 and 12, he had told them that his doctrine was given to him by divine revelation. In other words, it didn't come from the original apostles who had spent three and a half years with Jesus and only "seemed" to be pillars of the church. When Paul tells of his meeting with the Jerusalem leaders, his attitude was that the original apostles were of no significance to him, but... if it mattered to the Galatians... he indicated in Galatians 2:9 that he still had Peter, James, and John’s full support anyway. This is the picture Paul is painting.
After mentioning his contact with Peter, James and John the first time in Jerusalem to discuss what should be required of the Gentiles, he says these words. "Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie." Galatians 1:20
Paul actually had the gall to preface a lie with an oath of honesty! One has to ask the question why he felt compelled in the first place to assure the Galatians he was not lying! Jesus had a few words to say concerning this type of oath:
"Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ But I say to you, do not swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne’ nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’, and your ‘No’ be ‘No’. For whatever is more than these is from the evil one." Matthew 5:33-37
■ Paul’s own words convict him again. He was a liar, along with being a false apostle just as Jesus had commended the Ephesian church for exposing. He was a liar regardless of whether or not the Ephesian church was aware of this particular lie. But it is not at all unlikely that the Ephesian church was very familiar with both Paul’s letter to the Galatians and the official letter from the Jerusalem council.
■ The Jerusalem council letter would have been circulated to all the Gentile churches, and we know that Paul’s letters were being copied and circulated among the churches as well. Peter makes this apparent in 2 Peter 3:15,16 when he speaks of Paul and the content of "all his epistles". Peter could not say this without being familiar with most if not all of them! One can also see from the passage that he assumes his readers are aware of them as well. (2 Peter 3:15,16 is the passage in which Peter appears to call Paul's letters Scripture. I deal with this issue in chapter 10.)
■ The fact that Paul lied to the Galatians is by itself enough to establish him as a liar, but once a person crosses that line he will likely continue the practice. His lie to the Galatians is by no means his only lie.

1. Did Jesus Christ suggest that those who come after Him worship His disciples or that you would suggest Paul needed to have seen them as the pillars of the movement?

In Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34 God Himself said He would teach His people of HImself; no longer will a man depend on his neighbor to teach Him about and of God. So, what lie did Paul tell? Even Jesus Christ explained to His followers that those who belong to Him are those taught by the Father Himself. So, if you have to be taught by the Father to belong to Jesus Christ, don't you see that what Paul said is not necessarily a lie and that believing that the disciples are pillars of your faith is what amounts to a lie here?

2. According to the story, Paul had already died long before John penned his book of Revelations. So, how why conclude that Paul lied in his assessment of the collection of believers in the city of Ephesus?

3. But the same Jerusalem council letter which you speak of was addressed specifically to Gentile believers in "Antioch and Syria and Cilicia"- Acts 15 vs 24.... are you certain you have your information correct, to begin with?

4.

truthman2012:
The devil is always striving to discredit Paul because of the feat he achieved through the grace of God upon his life. Anyone that is against Paul is an anti-christ.

Please stop this! Jesus Christ sent His out to always err on the side of His Truth and not on men, not even Paul..

deScifa:
Paul: The False Apostle
■His apostleship was unrecognized by others. Of the 22 times in the Bible where Paul is referred to as an "apostle", only twice is he referred to as an apostle by someone other than himself! These two instances came from the same person. Not from Jesus, or any of the original apostles, but from Paul's close traveling companion and personal press secretary Luke. Both accounts are found in Luke's record of the Acts of the Apostles, (chapter 14:4,14). Here Paul is referred to as an apostle along with Barnabas. By this time in the story, Luke would have been very accustomed to Paul calling himself an apostle, and he would no doubt have been in agreement with Paul's assessment of himself. By these statistics alone, it is evident that Paul is by far his own biggest fan... and his side kick Luke was his number two fan. This leaves no one else anywhere in the Bible going on record recognizing his apostleship!

1. OP, an apostle is simply a person who is a follower of Jesus Christ — one who lives his or her life in continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ. So, Paul referring to himself as an apostle of Jesus Christ was in no way wrong since Jesus Christ's invitation extends to every sinner in the land.

deScifa:
"I wanna talk about me!"
■ No other epistle author in the Bible wrote like Paul. This would be true on a number of levels, but one aspect is of particular interest when we are considering how Paul views himself. He had a way of drawing attention to himself with his usage of personal pronouns. When it comes to how often he uses words like, "I", "me", "my", or "mine", the overall rate in his epistles is almost three times that of his next closest rival.
■ There are a number of reasons why many scholars today believe Paul was not the author of the book of Hebrews. One obvious reason is, in the other epistles credited to him, Paul doesn't hesitate to identify himself along with his supposed credentials. The author of Hebrews is strangely silent on these matters. Many scholars believe Barnabas was the author of Hebrews, but I think Apollos is a far better candidate... but that's a different subject.The point is, no one knows for sure.
But Paul certainly couldn't be in the running as the author of Hebrews when one also considers the statistical rate of the personal pronoun usage. The author of Hebrews refers to himself only 9 times, which is approximately 1.3 personal pronouns per thousand words. To help put this in perspective, let's compare the book of Hebrews to the book of Romans. They are both relatively large books of similar length, divided into 13 and 16 chapters respectively. Yet in only the first half of the first chapter of Romans, which is 16 verses worth, Paul uses twice as many personal pronouns as the author of Hebrews uses in his entire book! In the book of Romans, Paul refers to himself 103 times, which is rate of about 18.2 per thousand! That is 13x greater than Hebrews. In 1 Corinthians, Paul refers to himself 175 times, in 2Corinthians 103 times again, and in the relatively short book of Galatians, he refers to himself 69 times which is a rate of 25 personal pronouns per 1000 words!

1. I am afraid Jesus Christ never said it is sin to use lots of personal pronouns in one's writings. Sorry, but you are just shooting the breeze on this one.

2. Well, did Paul insist that he authored the epistles to the Hebrews?

deScifa:
■ It should be evident that Paul is at least as concerned with making a statement about himself as he is in communicating what he believes to be the truth about God.
■ His claim of apostleship stands alone. Other than the twelve apostles who spent three and a half years with Jesus, no one other than Paul can be identified as having claimed for themselves the title of "apostle". Barnabas was referred to as an apostle along with Paul by Luke in Acts 14:14, but there is no record of Barnabas claiming the title for himself.
■ Our view of early church is polarized. - When we take a survey of the New Testament, we notice that Paul is the single greatest contributor to it. When we read the book of Acts, we can't help but get the impression that the great bulk of what God was doing in the early church was happening through Paul. But it is misleading, because the book of Acts was written from only one man's perspective... Luke's. Luke traveled with Paul on his missionary journeys and the bulk of the book of Acts is the account of those travels. What we have in Acts is only one man's point of view, and from Luke's perspective, Paul's story would no doubt have appeared to be front and center stage.
■ There is a likely reason why Luke chose to follow Paul and record his story in the first place. Paul branded himself the apostle to the Gentiles, and Luke, being a Gentile, would have seen Paul as where things were happening for him. When we consider Paul taught that there is no difference in God’s eyes between Jew and Gentile, but all believers in Jesus now constitute "the true Israel of God", what Gentile who desired to get close to the God of Israel wouldn’t be absolutely thrilled with Paul?
■ But even though the view from the book of Acts is polarized and biased, it is still very important in helping us understand what was happening at that time. Without it we wouldn't have much of an idea at all. What was done and said as recorded by Luke is priceless, and we have no good reason to question what he saw and heard. Luke's own personal thoughts that he interjected occasionally may be questioned, but they are few and far between. I see no good reason to accuse Luke of malicious intent. The important thing to remember is that the book of Acts was written from a very singular point of view. No doubt, God was doing other things at that same time. We don't have a detailed record of it, but we do have some clues. God was certainly working through the original apostles, and some of those things are recorded in the beginning of Acts. The apostle John was hard at work for his Lord, but we hear very little from him until we get to his epistles and the book of Revelation at the end of the New Testament.

1. No sin was committed by his person in that.

2. The term "apostle" refers to followers of Jesus Christ, and it was in no way a unique identifier for merely the first 12 apostles of Jesus Christ.

3. That's probably because Paul's letters are featured most in it. If the collection letters ever written by the other apostles and writers were not lost to us, I am certain Paul's would have been just a handful among the other writings.

4. God's Israel is made up of the people of two Nations, formerly one — the Nation of Israel and the Nation of Judah. The original Nation of Israel was divided into these two nations after the time of Solomon. And during the time of Nebuchadnezzar, God had cursed and scattered the resulting people of the Nation of Israel to the ends of the world, rendering them Gentiles as a result. So, when Paul stated that he was an apostle to the Gentiles, what he meant was that he was sent, not just to his Jewish brothers in the Nation of Judah, but also to the people of Israel chased off by God to all the other nations of the earth.

5.

Kobojunkie:
1. No sin was committed by his person in that.

2. The term "apostle" refers to followers of Jesus Christ, and it was in no way a unique identifier for merely the first 12 apostles of Jesus Christ.

3. That's probably because Paul's letters are featured most in it. If the collection letters ever written by the other apostles and writers were not lost to us, I am certain Paul's would have been just a handful among the other writings.

4. God's Israel is made up of the people of two Nations, formerly one — the Nation of Israel and the Nation of Judah. The original Nation of Israel was divided into these two nations after the time of Solomon. And during the time of Nebuchadnezzar, God had cursed and scattered the resulting people of the Nation of Israel to the ends of the world, rendering them Gentiles as a result. So, when Paul stated that he was an apostle to the Gentiles, what he meant was that he was sent, not just to his Jewish brothers in the Nation of Judah, but also to the people of Israel chased off by God to all the other nations of the earth.

5.

It's obvious you have not read the Bible thoroughly.

I now understand when the lord said they would see but would not understand because I have hardened their hearts.
Ask the holy spirit to guide you when you read the Bible so you can stop reading it carnally

.