The nations that God commanded the Isrealites to destroy were not 'innocent' before God! they were evil and committed unthinkable atrocities - including sacrificing their own children in the fire, burning them alive, raping women, killing and fighting with their neighbors - these people were far from 'innocent'.

I knew this would drag you out, so now you are saying that these things qualified as evil in the eyes of God, funny enough what part of the above mentioned did the Israelites not do to their victims?
Before you even go on self, why would all these things be evil if God commands people to do them? Are you saying God commanded the hebrews to destroy those people because they were evil or because he wanted them to take over their land?

The truth is bitter Jesoul, God should have known better than to instruct people to kill in his name.

And when you take into account a God is perfectly holy

You are now telling us the nature of God, how did your human mind manage to know that?

Let us take the case of Achan now, Joshua 7 from verse 24 reads

24 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold wedge, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. 25 Joshua said, "Why have you brought this trouble on us? The LORD will bring trouble on you today."
Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them. 26 Over Achan they heaped up a large pile of rocks, which remains to this day. Then the LORD turned from his fierce anger. Therefore that place has been called the Valley of Achor [i] ever since.

Jesoul, I continue to be a amazed as to how much God is like a man and subject to the same emotions as man, like it or not the theological ramifications of this picture are difficult to swallow. To start with Achan was chosen by the casting of lots! Cleromancy my dear was how he was chosen, but lets even follow the line of thought what did his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, and even his tent do wrong? They were stoned and burned to death. The blood of the offending man and his family satisfies God and you say that is not wicked?

Can murder be justified for the spiritual benefit it brings to others?
Tell me what spiritual benefit the Holy War book of Joshua has brought to you?

IS YOUR GOD NOT WICKED?

Theres more for you to tell me how they were wrong oh Jesoul,

[b]How about the people of Hesbon.[/b]

Deuteronomy 2:24-34 "Set out now and cross the Arnon Gorge. See, I have given into your hand Sihon the Amorite, king of Heshbon, and his country. Begin to take possession of it and engage him in battle. This very day I will begin to put the terror and fear of you on all the nations under heaven. They will hear reports of you and will tremble and be in anguish because of you."

From the desert of Kedemoth I sent messengers to Sihon king of Heshbon offering peace and saying, "Let us pass through your country. We will stay on the main road; we will not turn aside to the right or to the left. Sell us food to eat and water to drink for their price in silver. Only let us pass through on foot- as the descendants of Esau, who live in Seir, and the Moabites, who live in Ar, did for us—until we cross the Jordan into the land the LORD our God is giving us." But Sihon king of Heshbon refused to let us pass through. For the LORD your God had made his spirit stubborn and his heart obstinate in order to give him into your hands, as he has now done.

The LORD said to me, "See, I have begun to deliver Sihon and his country over to you. Now begin to conquer and possess his land."

When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, the LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them — men, women and children. We left no survivors.

Classical elimination just after God conveniently hardening the Kings heart.

God’s episodes of murdering innocent individuals for the faults of their leaders, fathers, or other ancestors are not uncommon in the Old Testament. Jephthah asks for God’s assistance in killing the children of Ammon and promises him the first person out of his house upon his return as a burnt sacrifice if he will agree to aid with the massacre. God concurs and lethally delivers the children of Ammon into Jephthah’s hands. When Jephthah returns, his daughter, an only child, makes her way outside to welcome him home. Two months later, Jephthah regretfully fulfills his promise by burning his daughter as a sacrifice to God (Judges 11:29-39). Why would God allow a man to offer an innocent person as a reward unless God also intended for certain people to be mere possessions?

While David is King, he decides to conduct a census: a horrendous sin in God’s eyes. As punishment for his poor decision, he is to select among seven years of famine, three months of fleeing from his enemies, and three days of pestilence. Unable to choose from the offered catastrophes, God picks the three days of pestilence that result in the deaths of 70,000 men. Women and children weren’t mentioned, not that the Bible considered them to have any real value in the first place. Again, God murders enough people to fill a sizable city for the “sin” of one man. David subsequently cries out to God and asks him why he wants to murder innocent people who had nothing to do with the decision to execute a census. Of course God doesn’t provide an impossible answer for this sensible question, but his reasons scarcely seem morally or ethically justifiable (2 Samuel 24:10-17).

David also desires a woman named Bathsheba even though she’s married to one of David’s soldiers. Driven by his lust, David orders her husband to the front lines of a battle so that the enemy will take care of his problem. God then becomes extremely angry with David for this relatively petty crime. Once the new couple has a child, God afflicts it with illness for a week before watching it die (2 Samuel 11, 12:14-18). Yet again, God exterminates an innocent baby for the actions of the father.

At one point, God sends a famine upon David’s followers. When he makes an inquiry to God for a justification, he’s told, “It is for Saul, and his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites” (2 Samuel 21:1). Saul died years ago, yet God just now decides to punish people who had nothing to do with the decisions of their former leader.

David’s new son, Solomon, turns away from the Hebrew god and decides to worship other deities. Solomon’s decision infuriates God, but he isn’t punished because God recently came to like David. Instead, he punishes Solomon’s son by taking away part of his land when he comes to power (1 Kings 11:9-13). Once again, we see the impossibility of being free from God’s anger even when living in total obedience to him. In essence, Solomon’s son was divinely punished before he was ever born.

Next in the line of father-son reprimands is the account of King Josiah. “And like unto him was there no King before him, that turned to the Lord with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him. Notwithstanding the Lord turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath…because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked him withal” (2 Kings 23:24-26). The passage speaks for itself. Yet again, God punishes a seemingly perfect person for someone else’s transgressions.

Chrisbenogor:

I knew this would drag you out, so now you are saying that these things qualified as evil in the eyes of God, funny enough what part of the above mentioned did the Israelites not do to their victims?
Before you even go on self, why would all these things be evil if God commands people to do them? Are you saying God commanded the hebrews to destroy those people because they were evil or because he wanted them to take over their land?

  you know I was wary of going down this path with you because I know regardless of what I say, you've already got your mind made up 
  First you presumed they were innocent, I showed you they weren't. Now its "why did those things qualify as evil in God's sight" & "weren't the Isrealites doing the same things"? I could answer you but I won't, because it won't make a difference and I dislike conversating where I know no profit will be gained.

  *sighs*

I can't make sense to you Chris no matter what I say, because you're not really looking for an answer. You have so much disdain toward God and the bible that it will cloud your reasoning and prevent you from seeing and understanding God and the bible beyond the surface and beyond the limits of human reasoning. What else can I say?  

Later in Genesis, we learn of a man named Judah who has three sons: Er, Onan, and Shelah. Seeing as how Er is “wicked in the sight of the Lord,” God kills him. For what reason God found him too evil, we could only speculate. Of course, there’s no reasonable guarantee that Er would have incurred a death sentence from an impartial jury. Following the slaying, God dictates Onan to impregnate and marry Er’s wife in order to continue Er’s family line. Since Onan seemingly believes in freewill and doesn’t feel that he should be required to do something he doesn’t want to do, he spills his seed on the ground instead of finishing intercourse inside of her. “And the thing he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also” (Genesis 38:7-10). Again, the omniscient God should have known that Onan would fail to comply. Because God should have also realized that he would have to kill the disobedient Onan, why did he order him around in the first place? Does he now feel the need to have an excuse before murdering an innocent person? Was Onan destined to exist only as God’s slave? Are we all God’s oppressed pawns, created only to be shifted around for his amusement? Onan’s fate hardly seems just by enlightened standards.

The Ark of the Covenant was a sacred item that God demanded everyone to refrain from touching. The ancient Hebrews commonly believed that God even played the part of a genie by residing in the ark on occasion. Thus, when the Philistines steal this precious piece, God obviously becomes enraged. As they’re carrying it through different cities, God inflicts severe cases of hemorrhoids on all the inhabitants. Why God doesn’t just zap these thieves and return the ark to the Israelites without harming additional innocent bystanders is beyond me. Unbelievably, 50,070 people eventually die at the hands of God because they simply look into the ark (1 Samuel 4-6). That’s the equivalent of a moderately sized modern city dropping dead just for looking at something God didn’t want them looking at. It’s difficult to imagine a creature that can unleash punishments more evil than that, but God is continuously setting new standards for himself.

Once we see the ark in transit again, the cart and oxen transporting it move over a rough spot in the path and nearly shake the prized object to the ground. Out of what we could only consider pure reflex, Uzzah, who was accompanying the ark, places his hand on it to keep it steady. Uzzah’s instinctive, split-second decision to prevent God’s home from falling angers God enough to eradicate him from the earth (2 Samuel 6:6-7).

Since God commits scores of violent acts randomly throughout the remainder of the Old Testament, let’s look at a few examples. After delivering the Amorites into the hands of Joshua, he sends down a hailstorm in order to kill a large portion of the people who flee from battle (Joshua 10:8-11). God assists in the war between Barak and Sisera by surrounding Sisera’s army and forcing them to dismount from their chariots. Because of his intervention, Sisera’s entire army faces imminent death at the hands of Barak (Judges 4:14-15). God causes the Midianites to kill one another (Judges 7:22-23). He confuses the Philistines and causes them to kill one another (1 Samuel 14:20-23). He inflicts a number of people with blindness because Elisha asks him to do so (2 Kings 6:18). He causes a seven-year famine without specifying a reason (2 Kings 8:1). God kills Jeroboam because he’s the leader of the enemies (2 Chronicles 13:20). He kills Nabal without specifying a reason, but it’s probably because David desires his wife and other belongings (1 Samuel 25:38). God sends an angel to kill 185,000 men in an Assyrian camp because they’re enemies of his people (2 Kings 19:31-35). He plagues Azariah, a man labeled as a good King, with leprosy for the remainder of his life because he allows people to burn incense in a location displeasing to God (2 Kings 15:1-5). This is another great example of an overbearing punishment for breaking an asinine law. Some of our fellow humans were obviously destined to meet death early in life without any chance of redemption in God’s eyes.

Mr. Kunle I fear you might be fighting a lost battle here. There are people that simply are not ready to look at the Bible critically believing that it is somehow wrong to do this. It's surprising how many Bible thumping Christians know so little about the origins of the Bible and the history and culture of Biblical times. I'm talking about real recorded verifiable history. Many of them back their absolute belief in the Bible with quotations of verses from the same Bible. I have been exposed to the Bible a lot and very early in life realised that one can at best read parts of it metaphorically, and still be able to take a message home from the reading. It's quite impossible to treat the Bible as the "undiluted" word of God. Paradoxically  I think God would find it rather insulting that a compilation of books from all sorts of funny sources can be described as his infallible word.

I really feel what's going on here is more psychological. This people just have such a strong need to believe and any question of the book they believe in is a threat to them emotionally. Hence they find the need to continually take all sorts of impossible stances just so their boat is not rocked. For heaven's sake even the Catholic church that probably knows so many secrets about the origin of the modern day Bible are willing to have intelligent discourse about many parts of the Bible that they know are controversial.

Well I do wish you good luck Mr. Kunle but I suspect many here would never admit that there might even be the slightest flaw in the Bible even if plenty evidence is placed right before their eyes.

Tasma:

Mr. Kunle I fear you might be fighting a lost battle here. There are people that simply are not ready to look at the Bible critically believing that it is somehow wrong to do this. It's surprising how many Bible thumping Christians know so little about the origins of the Bible and the history and culture of Biblical times. I'm talking about real recorded verifiable history. Many of them back their absolute belief in the Bible with quotations of verses from the same Bible. I have been exposed to the Bible a lot and very early in life realised that one can at best read parts of it metaphorically, and still be able to take a message home from the reading. It's quite impossible to treat the Bible as the "undiluted" word of God. Paradoxically I think God would find it rather insulting that a compilation of books from all sorts of funny sources can be described as his infallible word.

I really feel what's going on here is more psychological. This people just have such a strong need to believe and any question of the book they believe in is a threat to them emotionally. Hence they find the need to continually take all sorts of impossible stances just so their boat is not rocked. For heaven's sake even the Catholic church that probably knows so many secrets about the origin of the modern day Bible are willing to have intelligent discourse about many parts of the Bible that they know are controversial.

Well I do wish you good luck Mr. Kunle but I suspect many here would never admit that there might even be the slightest flaw in the Bible even if plenty evidence is placed right before their eyes.

you have said it all, after watching banned from the bible with a christain friend he ended up saying that the devil was the one that placed the dead sea scrolls where they were and prompted the person that discovered them to discover them,he said that some of the christains that were featured in the documentary were agents of satan who will all rot in hell, i was awed. . . imagine how emotional and delutional people can get just to protect their faith and keep staying in their comfort zone. . . i have seen people here like davidylan and jesoul who claim that the people that were killed,brutalized and enslaved by the biblical god were fair game but they turn around and accuse allah for doing the same thing?. . . delutional generation. . . . .

long long sermon . . . somebody don write thesis already.

@Jesoul

Maybe I am a bit agitated but that is because I can nearly almost feel the pain if this kids as swords slash their throats.

First you presumed they were innocent, I showed you they weren't.

Did I say anywhere that I agree with the assertion you made that they were not? We are talking about children here Jesoul, kids that could not think for themselves, how can you say they were not innocent?

I can't make sense to you Chris no matter what I say, because you're not really looking for an answer. You have so much [b]disdain toward God [/b]and the bible

It will be difficult for you to make sense of these killings to anyone, this might sound as a shocker but you are the first christian on nairaland who is even trying to make sense of it, tell me where the Justice is in killing these children, who know nothing about God and what is good and evil. That is why it would be difficult for you to make sense of it.
I have been there and done the whole holy spirit thing, but if you are a mother what moral lesson will you give your kids from the book of Joshua, funny thing is I have been tackling your questions  you tend to always jump around mine and you say it is

beyond the limits of human reasoning.

These were MURDERS not in self defence not to protect their family , this was MURDER in COLD BLOOD, it will be difficult to explain it to anybody.

I dislike conversating where I know no profit will be gained.

I dislike when people think what is to be gained is me agreeing to what you think happened.

@justcool,

justcool:

And please do not be discouraged by those who say that you are sick. There is nothing wrong with you. I wish you strength in your seeking.

Dear justcool, I may have missed it; but truth be told - who has said that KunleOshob is sick? I think you guys should be careful what you celebrate. If you are going to be honest friends to help him, don't mislead him with false hopes and deceptive backslapping - it is unhealthy and does not help those who make such exagerrated claims.

justcool:

You raised very important and honest concerns in your first post of this thread. I can see that you are an honest seeker of the Truth. I can also see that you have knowledge of History and you are not afraid to question indoctrination.
My advice to you is not to succumb to the spiritual highwaymen, they seek to indoctrinate everybody and make everybody religious.

Could you please mention the "spiritual highwaymen", so we know what exactly you're about? Besides, if Kunle is making claims that leaves his position more confused and people are asking questions, how does that translate into "indoctrination" and making everybody religious?

justcool:

The Truth is that religion, Bible and God are three different things. True Christianity is a way of life, and not a religion neither is it the practice of a book.

Dear justcool, do you practise or live by "true Christianity"? If you do not, what is the essence of this advice you're proposing?

justcool:

After all, Christ founded no religion, and Christ did not right any book. The True worshipers of God, worship Him in Truth and in Spirit. The worship of God is not dependant on any religion, neither is it dependant on any book. Consider, that True Christianity existed before the compiled book which we call the Bible.

Let me be honest with you, justcool. If you actually believe that the worship of God does not require any book, please do just one thing as honestly as you can: burn the Grail Message and consign it to the trash bin.

It is easy and very convenient to take a seat to speak down on the Bible. That's okay - we know that Grail Messengers do not believe anything in the Bible. We've been through that episode before - and here is the challenge I have often left the GMs - when you proffer a convenient advice for those who are groping about the Bible, you can say anything you feel like about it: but please be prepared to do thevery same with your own book. If you shudder at that recommendation, don't you think it is rather hypocritical to recommend what you will never do with your enslavement to the Grail Message?

The Biblical faith has never troubled you - you don't need to speak down on it. You have quoted several times from the same Bible; and just because your ideas have not been established, does not mean now you can show yourself for what you really are!

justcool:

During the creation of man, God gave man the breath of life. This breath of life in man, which is from God, is the spirit in man. This spirit has the ability to recognise the Truth. It admonishes us through our conscience. This is the spirit that we should use to seek God and worship God with. Whatever this spirit in us does not agree with, we must not be forced or indoctrinated to accept that for it will lead us no way. Therefore don't give in to their attacks, and hold on to what your spirit tells you. Perhaps the spirit in you is still alive, and thats why you questions certain things.

I'm really sorry on your behalf to read these recommendations, justcool. It is sad to recommend something to someone based on probability in this situation - hence your "Perhaps". . . which does not say anything about his spirit being alive for a fact. No, I did not make the recommendation, so the "perhaps" is not my worry. Second, nobody is "attacking" him. I believe that on fair ground, if he has any substance to his worries, he would not be finding it difficult to clearly discuss the same. Since his faith is not in the Bible, there's nothing to worry about - no attacks, no "perhaps": he should just be as honest to his heart as possibly could be managed and not doodle between these two positions.

justcool:

Being scripturally knowlegable does not mean being close to God. Consider that according to scriptures, even the devil quoted to scripture and tried to use it to tempt Christ.

You don't need the Scripture here, justcool. Since Christ never wrote any Books, nor does worship to God depend on any book, you really don't need to speak about any "scripture".

justcool:

The Truth is that so many people have succumbed to this temptation and have condescended to the worship of the scriptures.The scriptures were written to bear witness to the Truth. One should never put the scriptures before God or the spirit of Christ in him, for such will be worship of the scriptures.

This is what I keep challenging: this fausse patte of alleging what nobosy is saying. Please justcool, please point out as honestly as you could: who have been doing the very things you are supposing as highlighted there? Who has been worshipping the Scriptures? Or who has been putting the Scriptures before God or Christ? Just who has been doing so? Why do people like you just jump in and assume these vacant allegations as if that is what you read here? Just who has been doing what you presume in that quote?

secondly, if the Scriptures were written to bear witness to the truth, why has it been so difficult for followers of the Grail Message to recognize that same fact?

justcool:

The scriptures do not give salvation, which comes only from obedience to God. According to the gospel writers, the Jew fought against Christ with the scriptures. Hence according to mathew Jesus said to them:

"You examine the Scriptures carefully because you suppose that in them you have eternal life. Yet they testify about me. But you are not willing to come to me to have life." (John 5:39-40)(International standard version Bible)

hehe. .  Somebody help us now!  You are quoting John and referring that quote from Matthew, abi?

Okay, no worries. Please when you are done, turn over to that same John and read where Jesus said that "SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN" (John 10:35).

justcool:

You see how the worship of the scriptures can hold people back from going to Jesus or accepting the eternal Truth which gives life.

Dear justcool, have YOU accepted Jesus Christ? Have you followed Him closely? have you taken in His Word where that faith is said to be founded upon the scriptures? "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said" (John 7:38) - that is what Jesus said. The Scriptures do not prevent anyone from accepting Jesus or going to him; and nobody has been worshipping Scripture. You make these allegations because you really are not seeking to be honest with what you read on this thread, are you? If otherwise, please show us who have been worshipping the Scriptures.

justcool:

Also remember that the events and sayings on the scriptures may not be accurate since they may not have been correctly passed down. So all the sayings attributed to Jesus in the scriptures may not be correct. He may not have actually said it exactly the way it was written. And what was written may have been tampered with. Therefore the errors found in the scriptures should not be attributed to Jesus. We need to use the spirit in us in-order to be able to separate the Truth from the false.

I knew your campaign would not be done until that epitaph had been appended. nothing new - you quote from John, ascribe that quote to Matthew - and now you speak of "errors"?  Just where do you guys really stand in your religion sef?

Tasma:

Well I do wish you good luck Mr. Kunle but I suspect many here would never admit that there might even be the slightest flaw in the Bible even if plenty evidence is placed right before their eyes.

Mr Kunle should be helped to understand his postulations have led to the logical conclusion that his arguments led to:

Chrisbenogor:

IS YOUR GOD NOT WICKED?

I have said it several times - that is what he is largely unware that his arguments will lead to. Call me mischievious, that does not negate the fact. What "evidence" Mr Kunle has presented before your eyes is what he needs to answer to.

*long sigh*
   my dear Chris

I dislike when people think what is to be gained is me agreeing to what you think happened.

  Nope not my goal. A productive discussion is not where all parties agree . . . it is one where progress is made and there is some common ground to build from. Right now we're at an impasse because you're asking me to explain things, I would, but I would be using the very same bible that you don't believe in or ascribe any authority to. So what's the point?
Since I'm going to be told anyways "the bible is flawed . . .  written by man . . . biased . . . etc"

  Nevertheless I still think you're a cool dude  and I hold on to the hope that one day you will see the light.

Pilgrim,
     you try sef no be small answer that post. I saw it and just shook my head and moved on. When God was handing out patience I musta been standing at the back of the line and you in front! lol . . . keep it up.

JeSoul:

Pilgrim,
you try sef no be small answer that post. I saw it and just shook my head and moved on. When God was handing out patience I musta been standing at the back of the line and you in front! lol . . . keep it up.

lol, Jesoul. . gurl, you don't cease to amaze me! Who said I had the patinece and candour you have exhibited? I knew all along that Kunle was not aware he was driving at something that would be too huge for him to digest; and did it surprise me that somebody quoting from John and ascribing it to "according to Matthew" would be missing the mark.

Well, sis. . I still dey pray for myself and all them folks. Whatever the inference, e go better someday. God bless you o jare.

the goal of the likes of chrisbenogor is not to engender a discourse but to subtly back you into a corner to forcefully accept their own position.

Chris believes God is "wicked", what else can you say to convince him otherwise?

Even Christ gave some up to reprobate minds and didnt bother wasting precious time with them. to the likes of Chris and Mazaje i say - believe whatever you wish, when (not if) you die you are free to go wherever u wish. To believe in a "wicked" God is not by force.
The way you go on rants about the bible, i wonder if someone forces you to read it at all.

@pilgrim 1
My post was directed to kunleOshob and not you!
Why take offence over every issue.

I stand by what I wrote to kunleOshob. Let the reader read yours and mine and then they can clearly see who is who.

About you asking me if I live a true Christian life. My answer is this:
"By their works you shall know them."  Please examine my posts, see if they are Christ-like, then make up your mind. I will not glorify myself, but God never fails to fight for His servants. This, I guaranty you.

About the scripture that I quoted, Mathew said the same thing too. I presume that you know the Bible.

Thanks and I wish you well.

@justcool,

justcool:

@pilgrim 1
My post was directed to kunle and not you!
Why take offence over every issue.

I didn't take offence - and that appeal is not saying anything to my rejoinder. I saw the fact that your addressed your rejoinder to Kunle; but you also mentioned "people" several times, did you not? I asked who was saying the things you alleged - did you care to give any answers? If not, is that not saying something about the allegations being false?

justcool:

I stand by what I wrote to kunle. Let the reader read yours and mine and then they can clearly see who is who.

Okay, I hear. Let them read and see who's been making false allegations - when shown, you still stand by them, yes?

justcool:

About you asking me if I live a true Christian life. My answer is this:
"By their works you shall know them." Please examine my posts, see if they are Christ-like, then make up your mind. I will not glorify myself, but God never fails to fight for His servants. This, I guaranty you.

Lol, was that supposed to be a threat or what? Bros, relax. . if you want God to fight for His servants, you're defintely not on solid grounds to claim such a waver. I have asked questions, and making this shakara is not the same thing as addressing them. Where's the "fight" there?

justcool:

About the scripture that I quoted, Mathew said the same thing too. I presume that you know the Bible.

Oh broda!! Please show me O. . I may have forgotten! I beg you in the name of being "Christ-like", just show me gently. Thank you, dear sir.

justcool:

Thanks and I wish you well.

Same here.

DavidDylan:

the goal of the likes of chrisbenogor is not to engender a discourse but to subtly back you into a corner to forcefully accept their own position.

Chris believes God is "wicked", what else can you say to convince him otherwise?

Even Christ gave some up to reprobate minds and didnt bother wasting precious time with them. to the likes of Chris and Mazaje i say - believe whatever you wish, when (not if) you die you are free to go wherever u wish. To believe in a "wicked" God is not by force.
The way you go on rants about the bible, i wonder if someone forces you to read it at all.

your god killed babies in the bible because their parents worshipped other gods say it aint sotry to use your so called holy spirit to explain or justify that action. . . . you god taught people how to share virgin after leading them through a misguided warwhy do you go around ranting and mocking allah when he is no better than your own god? tell me the difference between allah and the old testament god or between mohammed and moses? nonsense. . . .

mazaje:

your god killed babies in the bible because their parents worshipped other gods say it aint sotry to use your so called holy spirit to explain or justify that action. . . . you god taught people how to share virgin after leading them through a misguided warwhy do you go around ranting and mocking allah when he is no better than your own god? tell me the difference between allah and the old testament god or between mohammed and moses? nonsense. . . .

did you even read what i posted earlier? There is no longer room to "debate" . . . there is no longer any reason to "explain" or "justify" anything . . .

When you die, go wherever u think dead people go.

SO I THINK A LOT OF "MISREPRESENTATION" OCCURRED IN THE BIBLE, TOTALLY ALIEN TO GOD, AND SINCE "HE" CHANGETH NOT, ?

IS THE BIBLE UNDILUTED WORD OF GOD?

The Undiluted Word of God starts from the opening verses of Genesis to the closing verses of Revelation, and this shows the evidence of heavenly authenticity.  Every page is both historically and scientifically accurate.  While, however, the Bible has the evidence of all this, it is not primarily a book of history, nor is it primarily a book of scientific record.  Basically, it is a book of Divine revelation.  The whole book is a complete revelation of God’s plan of redemption for mankind.  He places it in our hands as the key which unlocks the mystery of His love, of our sin, of His justice and mercy, and of His programme of salvation for the human race.

Once we regard the Bible as a whole it begins to take on a new meaning.  The Old Testament (OT) is preparatory to the New Testament (NT).  The NT cannot be understood apart from the OT, neither can the OT be appreciated apart from the NT.  As we read, study and prayerfully meditate on the Bible, we begin to discover that God’s way of dealing with man in the OT is but a picture of His dealing with man in the NT.  Salvation for a fallen race was to be through the Man Christ Jesus from the very beginning; but before His coming, His death and resurrection, God dealt with the nation into whom Christ was to be born in the same way as He would thereafter deal with men individually through the Lord Jesus Christ.  In other words, God’s dealing with Israel was a type or shadow of His dealings with you and me.  As soon as we grasp this truth, the OT becomes transformed from a book of dry history and unintelligible sacrifices to a book of Divine revelation.

If you still have any question as to whether the Bible is undiluted or otherwise, I leave you with the words of Charles Wesley:

"The Bible must be the invention either of good men or angels, bad men or devils, or of God. However, it was not written by good men, because good men would not tell lies by saying 'Thus saith the Lord;' it was not written by bad men because they would not write about doing good duty, while condemning sin, and themselves to hell; thus, it must be written by divine inspiration"

@pilgrim
there you go looking for trouble again. You intimidate poeple in this forum but You will not intimidate the likes of me. I will not be like justcool who lets things go for the sake of peace. I will reply to all you post.

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,

I didn't take offence - and that appeal is not saying anything to my rejoinder. I saw the fact that your addressed your rejoinder to Kunle; but you also mentioned "people" several times, did you not? I asked who was saying the things you alleged - did you care to give any answers? If not, is that not saying something about the allegations being false?

You are not the only person in Nairaland who qualify as poeple, how come you are the only one to take offense? Guilty conscience? the guy did not allege anything, peoeple has been attacking kunleOshob all along this thread.
Did you not write this to kunleoshob

pilgrim.1]
You always cry the victim's song of people insulting you, but are very much at home to use such slobbers when you don't ever want to discuss. If there were issues, the sane and simple thing to do was point them out and request answers - not demand them and then cry the victim's song again. Thanks for the "typical" assumption, though
[/quote]

pilgrim.1:

Kunle,

Please go and study your heart. You really don't have a clue about these issues, and even if one has to take you up on simple matters in the Bible, you still don't even know the ABCs of that Book. If you are seeking to protect your predispositions, no worries: but you haven't seen anything yet until stuff begin to happen to you!

pilgrim.1:

There is a term which people have used to describe this kind of problem: syncretism.

pilgrim.1:

Now, the above is not to say that I direct syncretism as a malady to KunleOshob. . at best, it seems that is where he had begun to be inclined while still alleging that others are "ignorant". We are thankful. All the same, if one cannot trust the Bible and only believes that God's Word is written on our hearts, is it not hypocritical for such people to appeal to the same Bible when arguing a case?

These are just a few quotes where you not only attacked the guy but insinuated that he sufferes from syncretism.



[quote author=pilgrim.1:

@justcool,
Okay, I hear. Let them read and see who's been making false allegations - when shown, you still stand by them, yes?

You are the person always picking a fight and making false allegation. You have demonstreted this in all the threads that you posted on.

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,

Lol, was that supposed to be a threat or what? Bros, relax. . if you want God to fight for His servants, you're defintely not on solid grounds to claim such a waver. I have asked questions, and making this shakara is not the same thing as addressing them. Where's the "fight" there?

Here again you insulting. Saying that he is making shakara. You say that he doent stand a solid ground, are you God? Believe me pilgrim there is nothing Christlike in you. All you do is fight and fight and fight and fight against people. You are fighting him because he gave his own advice to KunleOshob, doent he have to right to contribut. He  didnt mention your name in his contribution, so why fight the guy??

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,

Oh brother!! Please show me O. . I may have forgotten! I beg you in the name of being "Christ-like", just show me gently. Thank you, dear sir.

You have forgoten!!! I thought you are god. does god forget? I thought you know the bible Even if you cant find where mathew said it, the fact remains that John said and it is in the bible. or is john not part of the bible? or is mathew not inagreement with john?

@justcool
I dont know why you let people like pilgrim 1 intimidate you. This is not the first post that you have had to ru away from because of her stupidity. I dont mean to insult you but knowing you personaly, I find it strange that you let the likes of pilgrim talk down on you.

@Jesoul
I apologise again if I became too agitated, thats why I left and took a break. You are right I think we hit an impasse and someone reading (like david) would think I am ranting because I am trying to say God is wicked but that is not the case.
I really do not see how God cannot even at least try to be fair, the story of achan like I tried to point out before does not show me justice in any sense, so I think the old testament is wrought with things that were just the mere thoughts of men.
God in the old testament carried on like a charged bull, like a mere man and that is why like kunle is saying there are definetly many things that are not christlike in the bible, the killings for instance look very man made to me, that God would not have had the patience to create this wonderful world.
Thats the point I am trying to drive home, sometimes I loose it because I have been a victim of all this "the lord God showed me" and no matter how much I screamed back then they never listened to me until it was too late, so once again apologies if I lost it.

@seeklove
Are you voltron?Take it easy oo.This is religion section.Don't break bottle.Pilgrim.1 is a gentlewoman

@david
You are as proud as peacocks come, I doubt if you will even pass into your heaven by your christian standards. Why are all your contributions laced with such venom, as if God made you his personal aide on nairaland.
You believe some of you chosen ones were born saved, while we were born condemned, God likes you too much and hates the rest of us, you forgot to add catholics to the list, and pastor chris and many others who do not see things the way you do.
I don't give two swings of jlo's ass cheeks what your God wants to do if he kills people without reason, he might still punish me for what my Great grand father's sister's first born son did, so why bother? What amazes me is how you think you have escaped that fate. Lol

@kunle/all
i will post a cndid opinionon this very soon, i am waiting for the inspration from above!! coming soon!!

Chrisbenogor:

@david
You are as proud as peacocks come, I doubt if you will even pass into your heaven by your christian standards. Why are all your contributions laced with such venom, as if God made you his personal aide on nairaland.
You believe some of you chosen ones were born saved, while we were born condemned, God likes you too much and hates the rest of us, you forgot to add catholics to the list, and pastor chris and many others.
I don't give to swings of jlo's ass what your God wants to do if he kills people without reason, he might still punish me for what my Great grand father's sister's first born son did so why bother. What amazes me is how you think you have escaped that fate. Lol

Misplaced emotions.

The bible is clear - do not cast your pearls before swine.

The bible is clear - Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

The bible is clear - 1 Tim 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

The bible is clear - Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Chrisbenogor - there is no pride here (that seems to be ur cop-out these days) . . . the bible is clear, there is precious little to be achieved "arguing" with people like you who foam in the mouth about a "wicked" God u're not even sure exists.

Chrisbenogor:

You believe some of you chosen ones were born saved, while we were born condemned

You seem to be either confused or deliberately decietful. With all your time spent on this section i cant believe you can lay this false charge at me. I dont believe such nonsense because the bible again is clear - Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

There is no one born saved, all of us are born condemned . . . but by grace are some (sadly not ALL) saved.

Chrisbenogor:

God likes you too much and hates the rest of us

I'm sorry to tell you that this is very correct . . . it is not pride . . .

again the bible is VERY clear . . .

- Ps 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

- Unless you repent of your iniquity, you are condemned already.

Chrisbenogor:

I don't give two swings of jlo's ass cheeks what your God wants to do if he kills people without reason, he might still punish me for what my Great grand father's sister's first born son did, so why bother?

That's a lie - again the bible is VERY clear . . .

Ez 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Chrisbenogor:

What amazes me is how you think you have escaped that fate. Lol

I dont need to think . . . the bible says God loves the righteous and His ears are open unto their cry.

You can falsely accuse me of pride till next week, political correctness and pandering to the seared hearts of the wicked in the hope of trying to appear religious is not my forte. The bible is plain before you, you have a choice to reject it . . . curse God and when you die go wherever you pls.

@ post
[b]
The Bible is only a physical written compilation of many books,  is it The real word of God given by the spirit?, it is a written account of things which God has designed for us to know.However since it was compiled by human it is bound to have errors, just like nature itself has got some errors, lke earthquake in some places,deformity from birth,some other inexplicable medical conditions from birth,sickle cell etc, the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life, before christ there were written words but when he came, the interpretation he gave to those words was what the spirit was telling him (Gods messege to him/world) at that time. you don't just use the mere written words mechanically with the human intellect like the pharasies did that was what set them on the collision course with christ , the spirit of the most high is living and dynamic and what he speaks at any point in time is bsed on his plans/will at that given time, the word of God can't be found in a book but it is delivered on a daily basis every second to those that truly serve God 'my sheep hears my voice ad they follow me'  AT BEST THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE ONLY COMES TO LIFE WHEN QUICKEND IN THE PRESENT BY GOD TURNING THOSE WORDS TO ZOE/LIFE AdDING TO WHAT THE LORD IS SAYING TO YOU AT PRESENT, the written words can contradict itself with all the errors in the world based on human errors, but those who are truy in the spirit don't rely on the letter as it s but the quicknng of the words by the spirit of the living oracle himself!![/b]BOTTOM LINE IS WE NEED TO SEEK GODS INTEPRETATION TO EVERYWORD WE SEE IN THE BIBLE, what we hear from him based on those words is in fact his words and not what we analyse or rationalise with our intellect, he speakes to hs true followeers when they listen every second[b][/b]his true words is direct,

@david
Abeg leave all those your many grammer jo, is it today we started talking about God making some people saved and others for destruction sake?
Imagine you say God does not punish us for others sins, after saying all of us are born condemned, see confusion.
No need for all this many many grammer abeg, its not news that you are a proud person because you think you are only one who is saved and the one that worships God the correct way.
The quaran is plain before you, you have a choice to reject it curse allah and go wherever you like when you die.
The truth is also plain before you, accept it or reject it that you are proud, continue living the way you are na you sabi.
Just stop coming here to ruin conversations between people who have decided to come down to our sinners level to discuss issues, if you don't like what you see simply log off, unless someone agrees with you they are wrong, sinners, and are condemned.

@ post

The Bible is only a physical written compilation of many books, is it The real word of God given by the spirit?, it is a written account of things which God has designed for us to know.However since it was compiled by human it is bound to have errors, just like nature itself has got some errors, lke earthquake in some places,deformity from birth,some other inexplicable medical conditions from birth,sickle cell etc, the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life, before christ there were written words but when he came, the interpretation he gave to those words was what the spirit was telling him (Gods messege to him/world) at that time. you don't just use the mere written words mechanically with the human intellect like the pharasies did that was what set them on the collision course with christ , the spirit of the most high is living and dynamic and what he speaks at any point in time is bsed on his plans/will at that given time, the word of God can't be found in a book but it is delivered on a daily basis every second to those that truly serve God 'my sheep hears my voice ad they follow me' AT BEST THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE ONLY COMES TO LIFE WHEN QUICKEND IN THE PRESENT BY GOD TURNING THOSE WORDS TO ZOE/LIFE AdDING TO WHAT THE LORD IS SAYING TO YOU AT PRESENT, the written words can contradict itself with all the errors in the world based on human errors, but those who are truy in the spirit don't rely on the letter as it s but the quicknng of the words by the spirit of the living oracle himself!!BOTTOM LINE IS WE NEED TO SEEK GODS INTEPRETATION TO EVERYWORD WE SEE IN THE BIBLE, what we hear from him based on those words is in fact his words and not what we analyse or rationalise with our intellect, he speakes to hs true followeers when they listen every second[b][/b]his true words is direct,

@chessguru,

(1)

chessguru:

However since it was compiled by human it is bound to have errors, just like nature itself has got some errors,

(2)

chessguru:

AT BEST THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE ONLY COMES TO LIFE WHEN QUICKEND IN THE PRESENT BY GOD TURNING THOSE WORDS TO ZOE/LIFE AdDING TO WHAT THE LORD IS SAYING TO YOU AT PRESENT, the written words can contradict itself with all the errors in the world based on human errors,

What we need to understand from you guys is this: since the Bible is full of 300,000 errors, do they also "come to life" as well? Are the "errors" also quickened?

chessguru:

@ post

The Bible is only a physical written compilation of many books, is it The real word of God given by the spirit?, it is a written account of things which God has designed for us to know.However since it was compiled by human it is bound to have errors, just like nature itself has got some errors, lke earthquake in some places,deformity from birth,some other inexplicable medical conditions from birth,sickle cell etc, the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life, before christ there were written words but when he came, the interpretation he gave to those words was what the spirit was telling him (Gods messege to him/world) at that time. you don't just use the mere written words mechanically with the human intellect like the pharasies did that was what set them on the collision course with christ , the spirit of the most high is living and dynamic and what he speaks at any point in time is bsed on his plans/will at that given time, the word of God can't be found in a book but it is delivered on a daily basis every second to those that truly serve God 'my sheep hears my voice ad they follow me' AT BEST THE WORDS IN THE BIBLE ONLY COMES TO LIFE WHEN QUICKEND IN THE PRESENT BY GOD TURNING THOSE WORDS TO ZOE/LIFE AdDING TO WHAT THE LORD IS SAYING TO YOU AT PRESENT, the written words can contradict itself with all the errors in the world based on human errors, but those who are truy in the spirit don't rely on the letter as it s but the quicknng of the words by the spirit of the living oracle himself!!BOTTOM LINE IS WE NEED TO SEEK GODS INTEPRETATION TO EVERYWORD WE SEE IN THE BIBLE, what we hear from him based on those words is in fact his words and not what we analyse or rationalise with our intellect, he speakes to hs true followeers when they listen every second[b][/b]his true words is direct,

@pilgrim

Whatever God wants to quicken is left for him to decide in hs unquestionable wisdom, it is Gods game and he plays by his rules!! the human can't solve spritual puzzles, infact it rebels against it, that is why the lord jesus talks about the childlike approach.