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Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 8:07am On Oct 03, 2014 |
wiegraf: Have you considered that the discovery of fossil fuel may have actually hindered our development. That without this discovery, we may have been more technologically advanced today than we are? For a civilisation surrounded by energy, we are way too backwards to be burning up our planet for energy. 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by bolaino(m): 8:26am On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa:In other words you're saying we should rely more on other alternative forms of energy, Like solar and wind. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 8:28am On Oct 03, 2014 |
bolaino: In other words you're saying we should rely more on other alternative forms of energy, Like solar and wind. No. I am saying that we are not as advanced as some people would like us to believe. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by bolaino(m): 8:48am On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa:so How advanced do you think we are? Stone age advanced? Or mission to Mars advanced? |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 9:08am On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa: If your concern is people who anthropomorphize stuff, and speak like mother nature has a special plan for special us, that's another issue. I do feel your pain, though you somewhat sound like one atm, with the ozone repairing itself just for us.... I believe it's clear, and has been mentioned repeatedly, that we're discussing how the climate affects us measly humans (and other life on our rock). Now, are you saying we shouldn't care because the earth isn't conscious? |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 9:21am On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa: No. That's almost as bad as assuming we'd have found something more useful than fire to burn stuff. It was readily available, easy to use, etc etc. There weren't any other options that would have achieved so much in so little time, especially with science/tech of the time. And we needed those fuels to power the civilizations that discovered these new sciences. Feel free to prove me wrong though. Where I'd agree is with the obvious; we've obviously passed the stage, technologically speaking, where we still need to rely on these fuels. We're now just being lazy (and a few greedy) and refuse to move on to alternatives due to this convenience. 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 9:54am On Oct 03, 2014 |
wiegraf: You like putting words in people's mouths. If you think earth/nature cares for us humans, you got another think coming. we are constantly adapting to our climate and whatever nature throws at us. Earth, like its inhabitants, is evolving. We should care about how we affect our lives. Caring about how we affect earth is just arrogant humans thinking they affect earth. They don't. If the world freezes, we die. Earth will carry on rotating. 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by padeolu: 10:03am On Oct 03, 2014 |
davien: Correct me if i'm wrong but what i understand you saying from all you've said so far is....lets all relax.....drink koolade and not worry about our careless use of essential eco-system dependent resources.... it'll all balance outNo, we have to worry about our activities that are affecting life on earth. What we shouldn't worry about is the changing climate. Its a natural event that would've taken place even if man didn't exist. davien:Trees purify the atmosphere, they give us O2 (just as other green flora). They are aswell useful for remediation && other things. davien: Doesn't matter that we mine the earth for coal deposited by millennia of plant fauna...The arctic ice cap is shrinking slowly but the Antarctic is gaining more sea ice. I think this is due to some shift in polar inclination. What proceeds an ice age(glacial period) if not a warm period (global warming). 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 10:03am On Oct 03, 2014 |
wiegraf: Does fire have alternative? Oh, there were always options. Better options. History is full of anecdotes of civilisations that stagnated after discovering one new thing and then depending on it. One of the most known is the chinese discovery of ceramic pottery which hindered their advance in medicine compared to the west that advanced and overtook china with the discovery of glass, thus being able to observe things via test tubes. Even fossil fuel is not bad. We just misuse it. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by Nobody: 10:13am On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa: ^That's one of the points. Does our misuse have any effect on the source or just an insignificant effect upon only the user? 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by padeolu: 10:24am On Oct 03, 2014 |
wiegraf:Ok sir. wiegraf:By climate change, we are talking of global climate. The case of dubai, is quite different, its just a portion of the global climate && any changes or alteration in it maybe be good for the ambient, but the consequence will be felt else where. Its live having 10 balls in a closed box, you can tilt the box to whichever angle you won't, that won't reduce the numbers of balls in the box. What will change is the numbers in a particular location. (substitute balls for heat) wiegraf:TBH, I believe the moon landing was staged. Maybe am wrong. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 11:36am On Oct 03, 2014 |
spotit: Temporary negligible effect on the source. Devastating and destructive effects on the user. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by Nobody: 11:56am On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa:The only things that would make or keep things Temporary and Negligible are Redress and Caution. Doesn't matter if you knew a herd of cattle somewhere, if you settled on milking and barbecuing from the only one you have irresponsibly, i assure you, not only would you be happily fed, you'd be very ready for diabetes and other complications while your cow is gone for good. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 9:33pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa: Err, no. You speak like the earth has a motive one minute the next you're claiming otherwise. Eg, you claim the earth here is evolving, like its inhabitants. It is evolving obviously, but not like its inhabitants. I believe I don't have to clear that up, yes? Call it splitting hairs perhaps, but if you're not clear, that's your fault not mine. As for the bolded, well.... I mean, for starters, we should care about how we affect our lives without caring about how we affect the earth. Exactly how does that work? Round and round we go.. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 9:45pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
oluwalfa: Name them. Show the test tube another civilization could have used in its infancy to industrialize the way we (or particularly the west) have. Some discoveries have been critical, the engine and fossil fuels being one of them. The Greek, for instance, do you know what the test tube likely was in their case? Fossil fuels. They probably fell in love with carts and slaves a bit too much. Their inablility to harness that power is up there with the likes of a printing press to disseminate info widely, guns, etc. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 9:49pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
padeolu: So you mean to say the overall trajectory would not get impacted? I very highly doubt that, for a variety of reasons (some already stated), but I'll just leave it at that for now. Kudoos |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wirinet(m): 11:14pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
I hate arguing all over the place, while ignoring the prime subject matter. The main subject here is whether human activities is responsible for the change in climate the earth is said to be going through and you are talking about human impact on the environment. All species of animals ( and in fact all living things) on earth has some impact on its immidiate environment (and sometimes distant environment),but to suggest that just one specie can have permanet impact on the whole planet is what i call far feached. And for your information, 99% of all species on earth had gone extinct, even before humans came on the scene. wiegraf: ^^^ Of course humans have impact (sometimes dramatic)on the ecosystem( around which it operates), but to suggest that impact affect the earth's climate permantly is preposterous. wiegraf: I cannot make sense of your statement above, but if you are talking about humans destroying forests for human habitation, then i can tell you that nature itself often destroys large swaths of forests by itself but it always recovers. Forest fires sometimes burn very large swaths of forests, killing many species and destroying the whole ecosystem. Earthquakes, Tsunamis and volcanic eruptions have devastated whole continents in the past, but the earth recovers and moves on. wiegraf:Are you telling me Chenobyl changed the entire earth's climate? Of course not. Chenobyl only affected that tiny part of Russia significantly and even at that, the radioactive effects would have neutralized in a few thousand years. Even Heroshima and Nagasaki is fast recovering from the effect of the atomic bombs droped in 1945. Terraforming another planet is just science fantasy (not even science fiction), we do not have the energy or the materials to terraform another planet, we hardly have enough to sustain our planet. We should first terraform Antatica to allow human habitation or terraform the ocean depths to sustain cities before we attempt to terraform mars. I will stop here for now. ( i am tired and need to sleep). We human think too much of ourselves and our importance, we feel and behaves as if the whole earth and the entire universe is made for us. If the conditions on earth changes so drastically that humans die out, the earth would still be trotting on without even noticing our absence. Let me deflate some egos; 71% of the earth's surface is water while the entire land mass is only 29%. Of that 29% humans occupy less than 1% of that area. Of the remaining 28% about 40% is pure wilderness. 14% is true desert and 15% has desert like characteristics. 9% is Antarctica. Most of the remaining 22% are agricultural areas. There may be other areas with a human footprint of some kind. So there is little we can do on the less than 1% that can have permanent damage on the remaining 99% of the earth's surface 2 Likes |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by GooseBaba: 12:08am On Oct 04, 2014 |
wirinet: Gbam..!!! That's the main reason why this media frenzy on global warming or boiling falls by the way side... Out of 29% humans only occupy less than 1% ...we should be worried about our immediate environment that we occupy and where we get our resources that sustains our existence.. Than worry about a whole planet that can consume itself with no questions asked. When there is droughts people normally migrate, but in general they migrate to another place where people already call home and then put strain on their own limited resources... If push comes to shove, I will rather seek access to that 40% wilderness than adapt to chaos and hunger... It's funny we cannot stop reoccurring natural disasters, but we're supposed to have wet dreams on global climate cooling.. Anything "global" economic or climate Africans have to be wary, we're like sitting ducks.. 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 2:09am On Oct 04, 2014 |
wirinet: I hate arguing all over the place, while ignoring the prime subject matter. The main subject here is whether human activities is responsible for the change in climate the earth is said to be going through and you are talking about human impact on the environment. All species of animals ( and in fact all living things) on earth has some impact on its immidiate environment (and sometimes distant environment),but to suggest that just one specie can have permanet impact on the whole planet is what i call far feached. And for your information, 99% of all species on earth had gone extinct, even before humans came on the scene. And once again, no Fossil fuels alone show one species can have a dramatic impact on the planet. Or do show another species that uses them, and how their depletion is not dramatic. Also, do tell how impacting the environment does not impact the climate? For instance, exactly what was responsible for transforming early earths carbon dioxide to oxygen? I seem to recall them stating in biology class it was photosynthesis or something of that nature. And what happens if we get in the way and get rid of the organisms responsible for this photosynthesis? Or, are you now telling me that the make up of the atmosphere, the balance between the different gases involved, does not have any impact on the climate?? And btw, if you cannot see how all that I stated is relevant, then well.... wirinet: See above. And the way some of you speak with such authority against what the very vast majority of the scientific community concurs on frankly baffles me. Not to say the cannot be wrong, but 'preposterous', really? wirinet: So? Because nature does it we should fold our hands or indulge in it as well? We shoudn't try to prevent it? Worse, we should actively indulge in activities that lead to catastrophe? Earthquakes and tsunamis, we really shouldn't even bother with early warning systems or try to prevent them if it is within our means. Illnesses are natural as well, I wonder why we bother looking for vaccines and all. Heck, let's go carnal and eat our young just as many other species in nature do. This recovery you speak of should not be taken likely, at all. To return to an 'equilibrium' that sustains our lifestyle or life in general from a major disaster usually takes millenia, for instance. Expecting nature to solve our issues, when it obviously doesn't care, is, well... wirinet: No, like I stated, it simply remains an example of how drastic humans can change their environments. Something for some reason you seem bent on denying. Our actions are not insignificant, and we should stop pretending otherwise. Even the actions of keystone species, as you imply above, are not insignificant, let alone that of the intelligent apex of apex super ape; homo sapiens. wirinet: Maybe you think the moon landings were faked as well? I mean, NASA has seriously considered terraforming before, and we all know they are a bunch of clowns... No one says it would be easy, but certainly no one says it would be impossible. And again, governments do try to change their climates, etc etc. Most of you accept this micro changes occur, induced by human activity, then deny that macro is possible or happening (and many do have data to back up their claims that it is happening). I wonder about that math. Reminds of some certain folk and a science called evolution wirinet: Thank you kindly for the bolded, captain obvious. But our actions, oh once again, matter to us, even if the earth doesn't care and will continue to revolve. wirinet: This logic na wa. I see. Biomass-wise we're also insignificant, but where are we on the food chain? Just how much of an influence do we have on other life? See fossil fuels, again. And I hope to 'god' I don't have to explain why The way you guys think this is about egos is frankly silly. I mean, the scientific society in general, do you really believe they think this universe was custom made just for us?? I would think it much more arrogant to assume we can just do as we please and the universe will work itself out in our favour. Just as if it was special custom made for special us. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by padeolu: 5:14am On Oct 04, 2014 |
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Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by padeolu: 5:22am On Oct 04, 2014 |
[quote=wiegraf]And the way some of you speak with such authority against what the very vast majority of the scientific community concurs on frankly baffles me. Not to say the cannot be wrong, but 'preposterous', really?[/quote] For several years the earth was believed to flat. Am aswell sure vast majority of philosophers/scientists/Astrologers would have churned out "evidences" to back this claim. It took but one man to prove it wrong. Science isn't about what the majority thinks or choose to think, rather, its about observable evidences and facts. Anthropogenic Climate Change Fraud
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Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 6:45am On Oct 04, 2014 |
wiegraf accepts anything "scientists" say as the gospel truth. Refuses to use his own head. I would call it the remnants of religious submission to authority in our evolution history which he hasn't gotten rid of. |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 7:09am On Oct 04, 2014 |
oluwalfa: wiegraf accepts anything "scientists" say as the gospel truth. Refuses to use his own head. I would call it the remnants of religious submission to authority in our evolution history which he hasn't gotten rid of. Is that the impression you get? Man, that big ba.ng you received seems to still cause some bu.tthurt |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 7:13am On Oct 04, 2014 |
wiegraf: I remember you crying at the end when I presented you with the star older than your "scientists" age of the universe. Chai! Scientists can lie o! 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 7:30am On Oct 04, 2014 |
oluwalfa: If that's how you like to see it, ok. And of course I know. Scientists don't know better. From the big ba.ng to this, alfa has always been superior. We're all wrong, atheists included, hence you the special satanist. ok |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 7:43am On Oct 04, 2014 |
wiegraf: Of course. I use my brain which cannot be said of most people, especially those donning the cloak of scientist. Imagine them manipulating raw data on climate change and telling us things that we can actually observe and see are wrong. There is climate change. "Scientists" think man is causing it. Real science shows otherwise. Come to Satan and use your brain. 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by bolaino(m): 7:47am On Oct 04, 2014 |
oluwalfa: wiegraf accepts anything "scientists" say as the gospel truth. Refuses to use his own head. I would call it the remnants of religious submission to authority in our evolution history which he hasn't gotten rid of.wiegraf, oluwalfa is calling you out, he is saying you are not a true atheist, lol |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by wiegraf: 8:01am On Oct 04, 2014 |
bolaino: wiegraf, oluwalfa is calling you out, he is saying you are not a true atheist, lol He does have a point. I do need satan before I can attain perfect atheism 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by oluwalfa: 1:29pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
padeolu, great work. See how truth, proof and facts shut them up. 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by padeolu: 4:31pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
oluwalfa:Thanks for the compliment. I actually think its cool they have a different opinion about the issue. We all can't believe in an hypothesis no matter how evident it may be. Someone has to find faults in it. That's science, it leads to discovery of other stuffs. As someone once said, you don't win a Nobel prize by following the crowd.. 1 Like |
Re: Nairalanders, Let's Discuss Climate Change. by Nobody: 5:32pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
so because of one mistake in date, other things the reports want to be looked into should now be completely tossed away...ok. |
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