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How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? - Religion - Nairaland

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How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:15am On Oct 02, 2014
Question: "How can the Incarnation be reconciled with God’s immutability? If God cannot change, then how can He become man?"

Answer: Great theological minds have had to wrestle with this very question, often in the course of responding to false teachers. As the early theologians formulated their answers, they upheld the affirmations of Scripture.

On the one hand, they upheld the full divinity of Jesus Christ, and rightly so. There are biblical passages that explicitly assert His divinity, such as John 1:1, and other passages which imply His divinity by showing Him performing actions that only God can do: judging humanity, forgiving sin, healing people, and creating the cosmos.

At the same time, the early theologians upheld the full humanity of Jesus Christ. Scripture gives proof that Jesus was a human being, able to suffer, die, and experience weaknesses, both physical and emotional.

When “the Word became flesh” (John 1:14), He did not become two people (one divine and one human), but He became one Person with two distinct natures, a fully divine nature and a fully human nature. The Word was unchanged as He entered a union with sinless human nature in a physical body (Hebrews 10:5).

Here lies the specific answer to the question: as to Jesus’ divine nature, He is unchanging. As to His human nature, He is changeable. As God, Jesus is unchangeable, infinite, ever-supreme in every way. But as to His human nature, He is changeable, subject to weakness, able to suffer, able to die. He is simultaneously divine and human, infinitely strong and suffering weakness, immortal and mortal. He is the God-man.

The Son of God did not change His nature at the Incarnation. The divine nature did not “blend” with the human nature—that would have required change. Rather, the divine nature resides with the human nature in the Person of Christ. The Incarnation means that Jesus can lay claim to both His divine nature and His human nature.

In John 17:5, Jesus prays to the Father, “Glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” Both of Jesus’ natures are evident in this request. He refers to His pre-existence with God in which He shared the Father’s glory (evincing His divine nature), and He asks to be glorified (evincing His human nature).

God must be immutable, since He cannot degrade into a worse state and He cannot improve into a better state. He is ever-perfect and, as God, cannot be otherwise. Perfection is an absolute, and it is impossible for Him to be “more perfect.” By contrast, a human being lacks infinite capacities. A human is finite and mutable and always has room for improvement, which explains the fact that Jesus “grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men” (Luke 2:52).

In the end, the great theological minds of the fourth and fifth centuries who wrestled with this problem responded by saying, in so many words, “We cannot fully explain it, but based on Scripture, we know that Jesus Christ was both human and divine. We are bound to affirm what Scripture affirms even if we must admit that aspects of the Incarnation are a wonderful mystery. Mysterious or not, we avow what God has revealed to us concerning this.”

There is a wonderful connection to our salvation that flows out of this mystery of the Incarnation. It is that Christ, God the Son incarnate, is the ideal ambassador between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5). As God, He can perfectly represent God to us; as a human, He can perfectly serve as our advocate before God the Father, making peace on our behalf. “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense–Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.”

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/incarnation-immutability.html#ixzz3EwDcOFLT

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Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by 5solas(m): 1:03pm On Oct 02, 2014
Nice post as ever grin . Completely endorsed.
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:57am On Oct 04, 2014
5solas:

Nice post as ever grin . Completely endorsed.

God bless you brother. I can only hope the likes of mbaemeka, donnie, joagbaje, WinsomeX, trustman, shdemidemi, Bidam will see how this post compares to their doctrine of the humanity of Christ.

1 Like

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by shdemidemi(m): 5:01pm On Oct 04, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


God bless you brother. I can only hope the likes of mbaemeka, donnie, joagbaje, WinsomeX, trustman, shdemidemi, Bidam will see how this post compares to their doctrine of the humanity of Christ.

I completely agree with the OP.

I hope our brothers who see these things differently come to the knowledge of this truth.

2 Likes

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:41am On Oct 06, 2014
shdemidemi:


I completely agree with the OP.

I hope our brothers who see these things differently come to the knowledge of this truth.

God bless you my brother.

2 Likes

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 7:40am On Oct 06, 2014
shdemidemi:


I completely agree with the OP.

I hope our brothers who see these things differently come to the knowledge of this truth.
And i wonder why my name should be mentioned here,since i never disputed the divinity of Christ on this forum.What i said was that it will be a great injustice to scriptures if you only talk about His divinity and neglect His humanity.

Heck!
Even the OT aknowledges His humanity by calling Him A Man of war(Ex 15:3 kjv).cheesy
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by shdemidemi(m): 8:29am On Oct 06, 2014
Bidam:
And i wonder why my name should be mentioned here,since i never disputed the divinity of Christ on this forum.What i said was that it will be a great injustice to scriptures if you only talk about His divinity and neglect His humanity.

Heck!
Even the OT aknowledges His humanity by calling Him A Man of war(Ex 15:3 kjv).cheesy

We all got the mention based on the chatter on the thread regarding Jesus' divinity and humanity. I think It was a call to compare what we have and profess to what the OP has meticulously put together. It was not to disparage anyone's view on the subject.

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Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 8:39am On Oct 06, 2014
shdemidemi:


We all got the mention based on the chatter on the thread regarding Jesus' divinity and humanity. I think It was a call to compare what we have and profess to what the OP has meticulously put together. It was not to disparage anyone's view on the subject.

Ok..how u doing?
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by shdemidemi(m): 9:37am On Oct 06, 2014
Bidam:
Ok..how u doing?

Morning my prophet.. I'm fine, and yourself?

Thanks.
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by ichuka(m): 11:00am On Oct 06, 2014
Nice one OP.
Whenever an atom of Truth is released/expressed,Liberty is the result.
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 11:16am On Oct 06, 2014
Bidam:
And i wonder why my name should be mentioned here,since i never disputed the divinity of Christ on this forum.What i said was that it will be a great injustice to scriptures if you only talk about His divinity and neglect His humanity.

Heck!
Even the OT aknowledges His humanity by calling Him A Man of war(Ex 15:3 kjv). cheesy

@bolded and then God goes on to say he is NOT a man (Num. 23:13). Such contradictions tho.

Oh wait, the word translated by the KJV as "man" is from the Hebrew word "IS" which has so many meanings aside "man." (Check Strong's concordance)

In terms of God, according to the Bible, it should be translated as "ONE" which is why other Translations combine "ONE" and "OF WAR" into one: "WARRIOR" thus, "YHWH is a Warrior."

Other than that, it's a blatant contradiction.

1 Like

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 1:26pm On Oct 06, 2014
shdemidemi:


Morning my prophet.. I'm fine, and yourself?

Thanks.

Am fine thanks.

1 Like

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 1:43pm On Oct 06, 2014
Reiyvinn:


@bolded and then God goes on to say he is NOT a man (Num. 23:13). Such contradictions tho.
You are the guy contradicting yourself here. The scripture you quoted is found in Num23:19 not 13. And it says in context that God cannot lie nor change is mind like Man.Jesus as a Man never lied nor changed His mind concerning the will of the Father. He is much the Son Of God as He is the Son of Man.
Oh wait, the word translated by the KJV as "man" is from the Hebrew word "IS" which has so many meanings aside "man." (Check Strong's concordance)

In terms of God, according to the Bible, it should be translated as "ONE" which is why other Translations combine "ONE" and "OF WAR" into one: "WARRIOR" thus, "YHWH is a Warrior."

Other than that, it's a blatant contradiction.
No, it is not a contradiction.God as used in OT is in symbolic codes, types and shadows that reveals and unveils Christ in the NT. Micah 5:2 and Psalm45:1,6-7 attest to this spiritual truth and realities.
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 2:44pm On Oct 06, 2014
This duality the OP speaks about is in direct contradiction with Jewish ideas of a universal monotheistic God as laid down by Abraham and Moses It is illustrated perfectly in the Jewish Talmudic writings by the accounts of the Rabbi Elisha who ascended heaven and on seeing archangel Metatron seated, inquired if a duality now existed in heaven. In order to show that no such duality existed Metatron was taken out on the orders of the amighty and beaten with fiery rods.

Once you talk about the immutability of God, then clearly there can be no duality particularly if as Christians claim, Jesus is God.

The need for a duality arises because Christian writers later ascribed divinity to Jesus, in fact there is nothing wrong ascribing divinity to Jesus, the problems arise in reformatting the Hebrew bible to reflect an acquired divinity of Jesus and cherry-picking biblical verses to reflect this.

This duality is in fact a pagan construct, a throwback to early Gospel writers idea of a god-man and borrowed from early Orpheistic pagan traditions of the "fisher god" (fishers of men) and "shepherd of hermas" as well as the "vine of Dionysus " amongst others.

The great theological minds of the day tasked themselves on this issue, it is clear they decided to leave well alone.
In my view from what little we know of him, Jesus had human nature, his deeds later led to him being elevated to divinity and joining the pantheon of the greatests.

1 Like

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:27pm On Oct 18, 2014
Bidam:


And i wonder why my name should be mentioned here,since i never disputed the divinity of Christ on this forum.What i said was that it will be a great injustice to scriptures if you only talk about His divinity and neglect His humanity.

Heck!
Even the OT aknowledges His humanity by calling Him A Man of war(Ex 15:3 kjv).cheesy

God bless you, man of God. wink
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:28pm On Oct 18, 2014
ichuka:


Nice one OP.
Whenever an atom of Truth is released/expressed,Liberty is the result.

Remain blessed my brother from another mother. wink

1 Like

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:29pm On Oct 18, 2014
Reiyvinn:


@bolded and then God goes on to say he is NOT a man (Num. 23:13). Such contradictions tho.

Oh wait, the word translated by the KJV as "man" is from the Hebrew word "IS" which has so many meanings aside "man." (Check Strong's concordance)

In terms of God, according to the Bible, it should be translated as "ONE" which is why other Translations combine "ONE" and "OF WAR" into one: "WARRIOR" thus, "YHWH is a Warrior."

Other than that, it's a blatant contradiction.

Keep it up, bible scholar. cheesy
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:31pm On Oct 18, 2014
Bidam:


You are the guy contradicting yourself here. The scripture you quoted is found in Num23:19 not 13. And it says in context that God cannot lie nor change is mind like Man.Jesus as a Man never lied nor changed His mind concerning the will of the Father. He is much the Son Of God as He is the Son of Man.
No, it is not a contradiction.God as used in OT is in symbolic codes, types and shadows that reveals and unveils Christ in the NT. Micah 5:2 and Psalm45:1,6-7 attest to this spiritual truth and realities.

It is not a contradiction, agreed. smiley
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:35pm On Oct 18, 2014
Sarassin:


This duality the OP speaks about is in direct contradiction with Jewish ideas of a universal monotheistic God as laid down by Abraham and Moses It is illustrated perfectly in the Jewish Talmudic writings by the accounts of the Rabbi Elisha who ascended heaven and on seeing archangel Metatron seated, inquired if a duality now existed in heaven. In order to show that no such duality existed Metatron was taken out on the orders of the amighty and beaten with fiery rods.

Once you talk about the immutability of God, then clearly there can be no duality particularly if as Christians claim, Jesus is God.

The need for a duality arises because Christian writers later ascribed divinity to Jesus, in fact there is nothing wrong ascribing divinity to Jesus, the problems arise in reformatting the Hebrew bible to reflect an acquired divinity of Jesus and cherry-picking biblical verses to reflect this.

This duality is in fact a pagan construct, a throwback to early Gospel writers idea of a god-man and borrowed from early Orpheistic pagan traditions of the "fisher god" (fishers of men) and "shepherd of hermas" as well as the "vine of Dionysus " amongst others.

The great theological minds of the day tasked themselves on this issue, it is clear they decided to leave well alone.
In my view from what little we know of him, Jesus had human nature, his deeds later led to him being elevated to divinity and joining the pantheon of the greatests.

What has been revealed to Christians remains a mystery to them that are without. cool
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 11:15pm On Oct 18, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


What has been revealed to Christians remains a mystery to them that are without. cool

And what can be adduced by simple commonsense and logic is often a mystery to them that are without. wink
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by youngice(m): 11:54pm On Oct 18, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


What has been revealed to Christians remains a mystery to them that are without. cool
please I am tired and confused and sad, I have this hole in my heart I feel with some "things" .
I heard something about sins towards the Holy spirit and about how they can't be forgiven .
-does this mean that salvation is not for every body , because if a sin can't be forgiven this implies that some people are destined to go to hell
- please what sin I classified as a sin against the holy spirit
- how can you know u have sinned against the holy spirit , because I've observed that nothing Christian really moves me again
Please mature CHRISTIAN COMMENTS ONLY
-----troubled Bros
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:01am On Oct 19, 2014
Sarassin:


And what can be adduced by simple commonsense and logic is often a mystery to them that are without. wink

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor.1:18.)
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:21am On Oct 19, 2014
youngice:


please I am tired and confused and sad, I have this hole in my heart I feel with some "things" .
I heard something about sins towards the Holy spirit and about how they can't be forgiven .
-does this mean that salvation is not for every body , because if a sin can't be forgiven this implies that some people are destined to go to hell
- please what sin I classified as a sin against the holy spirit
- how can you know u have sinned against the holy spirit , because I've observed that nothing Christian really moves me again
Please mature CHRISTIAN COMMENTS ONLY
-----troubled Bros

Unbelief is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. There's no other sin that cannot be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 says:

"If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

The Scripture says that Jesus will forgive and cleanse us from all our sins. If you don't believe that He will do that and you persistently reject His offer of forgiveness then there is no grace. Unbelief is the only sin against the Holy Spirit as it is only Him that can give us grace to live righteously and godly in this present evil world. Read this link to see whether it will be of any help:

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2012/10/what-is-the-unforgivable-sin/
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by youngice(m): 12:25am On Oct 19, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


Unbelief is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. There's no other sin that cannot be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 says:

"If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

The Scripture says that Jesus will forgive and cleanse us from all our sins. If you don't believe that He will do that and you persistently reject His offer of forgiveness then there is no grace. Unbelief is the only sin against the Holy Spirit as it is only Him that can give us grace to live righteously and godly in this present evil world. Read this link to see whether it will be of any help:

https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2012/10/what-is-the-unforgivable-sin/
Thanks

But I still need more clarification

1 Like

Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:33am On Oct 19, 2014
youngice:


Thanks

But I still need more clarification

Have you read the link?
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by youngice(m): 12:36am On Oct 19, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


Have you read the link?
yes , I saw it yesterday

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Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:53am On Oct 19, 2014
youngice:


please I am tired and confused and sad, I have this hole in my heart I feel with some "things" .
I heard something about sins towards the Holy spirit and about how they can't be forgiven .

I'll try and answer your questions accordingly, if it will help:

youngice:


-does this mean that salvation is not for every body , because if a sin can't be forgiven this implies that some people are destined to go to hell

Salvation is only for those who will believe and trust that Jesus' blood has been shed for the forgiveness of their sins.

youngice:


- please what sin I classified as a sin against the holy spirit

The sin of unbelief. If you don't believe the Word and Work of God then you are calling Him a liar.

youngice:


- how can you know u have sinned against the holy spirit , because I've observed that nothing Christian really moves me again

If you are worried that you have sinned against the Holy Spirit then you most probably haven't. Those who have sinned against the Holy Spirit will consistently and permanently reject Christ John 3:18:

"He that believes on Him is not condemned: but He that believes not is condemned already; because because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"

youngice:


Please mature CHRISTIAN COMMENTS ONLY

-----troubled Bros

Prayerfully consider these points and don't put yourself under condemnation. It is not by what you feel but by believing and trusting in the finished work of Christ.
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by youngice(m): 8:02am On Oct 19, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


I'll try and answer your questions accordingly, if it will help:



Salvation is only for those who will believe and trust that Jesus' blood has been shed for the forgiveness of their sins.



The sin of unbelief. If you don't believe the Word and Work of God then you are calling Him a liar.



If you are worried that you have sinned against the Holy Spirit then you most probably haven't. Those who have sinned against the Holy Spirit will consistently and permanently reject Christ John 3:18:

"He that believes on Him is not condemned: but He that believes not is condemned already; because because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"



Prayerfully consider these points and don't put yourself under condemnation. It is not by what you feel but by believing and trusting in the finished work of Christ.
Brother u've been a real blessing may Gods finish what he has started in your life

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Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:27pm On Oct 20, 2014
youngice:


Brother u've been a real blessing may Gods finish what he has started in your life

Amen. Remain blessed and a blessing to others. smiley
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:49pm On Nov 05, 2014
Sarassin:


And what can be adduced by simple commonsense and logic is often a mystery to them that are without. wink

Like what? undecided
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by Nobody: 5:02pm On Nov 06, 2014
OLAADEGBU:


Like what? undecided

Like trying to reconcile the irreconcilable, for instance the humanity...and divinity of Jesus.
Re: How Can The Incarnation Be Reconciled With God’s Immutability? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:59am On Nov 15, 2014
Sarassin:


Like trying to reconcile the irreconcilable, for instance the humanity...and divinity of Jesus.

That is called the hypostatic union. cool

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