Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not - Car Talk - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Car Talk / Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not (4337 Views)
How To Determine The Age Of A Car Tire (Photos) / The Average Lifetime Of A Tire Is 4 Years / Honda End Of Discussion Vs Camry Big For Nothing ; Which Is Better (2) (3) (4)
| Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 6:04am On Oct 05, 2014 |
There are so many new car owners on this thread. Most will travel home end of year. Highway driving is very different from driving in the town. The importance of tires to a safe journey cannot be over-emphasized. Its not just about new tires, if the tires are not properly inflated -that is under-inflated or over-inflated they can constitute a danger to the driver and others on the road. Which leads to the question - we know the manual/the sticker on the car door states the proper inflation rate ( although some manufacturers have been known to adjust the data there because they made a mistake) What do you use? The rate in the manual or the maximum rate on the tire? Why? Let's discuss. This may seem like an obvious issue to the more experienced but I have come across someone who inflates his tires to 60psi when the maximum on the tirewall is 40psi and the manufacturer recommends 35psi, reason being according to him better fuel economy. For reference purposes, the tire in question is a 215/60/16. From this story, you will agree with me that this is an important issue. Let the comments roll, someone will learn, and we will all be the better for it. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by aluko360(m): 6:06am On Oct 05, 2014 |
Nice topic. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 6:40am On Oct 05, 2014 |
The maximum rating is to prevent the tyre from fatal consequences when driving. I use the manufacturers rating. I have a tire pressure guage i use to double check when i go to the vulcaniser. Anyone using a 20amp electrical appliance on a 13amp fuse at home is looking for trouble. So its like that. 1 Like |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 7:11am On Oct 05, 2014 |
Once a week when I fill up the gas at Costco, I drive up to their tire place and the nice men there check my tire pressure for free. They use nitrogen and will only go with what's on the door jamb. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by arcis: 8:26am On Oct 05, 2014 |
Nice one op, do you know that some people used oversized tyres? For instance, a Toyota camry say 1999 model manufacturer recommend 195/65/15 size. You noticed Nigerian ignore the manufacturer specifications and used different sizes. I have seen someone using 205/65/15 for a camry. I think this another problem we should start with. ..... |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by ogawisdom(m): 10:16am On Oct 05, 2014 |
Tire manufacturer always put the maximum pressure d tire can contain like 195/65/15 is 44psi but I dnt go above 40psi. Road side Vulcanizer onces put 50psi for me on d tire gosh na God save me  Again d tool they use to guage tires r so analog so give an allowance of ±5psi. So if u tell them to put ur tire at 40psi u may end up with tire of btw 35 to 45psi 1 Like |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by omicron(m): 10:51am On Oct 05, 2014 |
An observation I have made is that different guages give you different pressures. For eg, Vulcaniser A will use his guage and tell you its at 40psi while B will give measure same as 50psi. I think the best is for one to own his/her personal guage in order to have consistent reference/results. Or at least, you the same vulcaniser's guage all the time as much as possible. Meanwhile, the maximum pressure for my tires 195/65/15 is 44psi The manufacturer's recommendation ('99 Accord, EX, I4) is 30psi 1 Like |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by xerotop(m): 2:31pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
I have my handheld digital tire guage which i bought @ the rate of 4k naira. Whenever i visit the vulganizer, i always insist on them using mine and not the pako guage. At times when he has lots of people waiting for him, i ask him to over fill a little then park somewhere close and deflate to my desired psi with my hand guage. 1 Like |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 5:16pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
chiebube: What would happen if I inflated it to the maximum or greater and I hit a bump or a pothole? What would happen if I inflated it to the a few psi say 5 less than the maximum (or the manufacturer recommended assuming it is not the same as the maximum) and I hit a bump or a pothole? Would it make a difference? i think it makes sense to include tire gauge and maybe also portable inflator in one's kit |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 5:18pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
CityNG: There is at least one place in abuja that fills tires with nitrogen. Does nitrogen make a difference? The label on the door may be wrong. here is an example: http://www.mpvclub.com/recalls.php?id=6 |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 5:31pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
IdaraCHODB: "So, to answer your specific questions: With nitrogen, your tire pressures will remain more constant, saving you a small amount in fuel and tire-maintenance costs. There will be less moisture inside your tires, meaning less corrosion on your wheels. You will not be able to feel any difference in the ride or handling or braking, unless your tire pressures were seriously out of spec and changing to nitrogen brought them back to the proper numbers." Source http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair-questions/4302788 When I do my classic and other cars at home I just use my vertical compressor.
|
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 5:35pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
arcis: Good point. As a rule i go with manufacturer recommended tire sizes, but there seems to be a craze among some for bigger rims and tires. This is separate and apart from mixing different tire sizes. I once travelled to Akwa ibom in public transport. The transporter is called Promised Land. I used their Toyota Sequioa because 1.I didn't want to drive instead and 2. I tell anyone who cares to listen that the most dangerous means of public transportation in Nigeria is a Toyota Hiace bus (ironically the most popular) and 3. i believe that there are more anti-crash/crash-impact reduction devices in the Toyota Sequioa than a Toyota Hiace bus. To my horror, once the vehicle hit 100 and above the vehicle was basically dancing in an indescribable and extremely unnerving and uncomfortable way. When they stopped to refuel, I came down and checked the tires, bigger tires i think in front smaller tires at the rear. I got to a stage that I could see the driver didn't even trust the vehicle he was driving because of the effect of the tire mismatch. I informed him that what he is doing isn't right, he told me they did that because they notice that the tires were wearing too quickly in front. You can guess what I did on the return trip, I didn't join them to return to abuja. Some that mix tire sizes do not realize what they are doing because they don't drive at highway speeds. I just gave those that have to use public transport a tip, please inspect the tires of the vehicle you are about to board, it could make the difference between a comfortable ride and a very bumpy and uncomfortable time |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 7:28pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
IdaraCHODB: Nitrogen remains constant regardless of temperature, air does not. Which is why the tyre pressures when pressurised with air will vary depending on temperature - high when hot, lower when cold. Some high performance vehicles only run nitrogen in their tyres, on their respective manufacturer's recommendation. The Nissan GTR R35 and Bugatti Veyron are prime examples. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 9:30pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
Siena: Thank you, so given a choice, nitrogen is clearly better. Assuming i got a puncture, and 3 tires run nitrogen, 1 air until i can return to base or find another nitrogen shop. Do I have to worry? |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 9:38pm On Oct 05, 2014 |
CityNG: Nitrogen clearly wins. And it doesn't have to be a super-car, will work just as well on run of the mills |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 1:20am On Oct 06, 2014 |
IdaraCHODB: Yeah until I can get a nitrogen generating scheme or delivery at home, regular air has to do even on the race car. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 2:22am On Oct 06, 2014 |
So my local Costco has upgraded. I stopped by there to air up this afternoon. They now use an automated system. They basically punch in the required PSI on the nitrogen machine, attach the hose to the tires (all four at the same time) and walk away. The machine will beep when it's done. If over inflated, it will remove air or nitrogen, if under inflated it will add nitrogen. Very cool. 2 Likes |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by lonelydora: 4:33am On Oct 06, 2014 |
Where can I get Nitrogen people in Ph? Total Filling station at Artillery uses an automated machine but not sure if that is Nitrogen. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Dieumerci(m): 8:33am On Oct 06, 2014 |
arcis:My 2001 Camry uses P205/65/15 and it's recommended by Toyota. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by clemz85(m): 12:46pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
what is psi? my lesson today |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 1:35pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
clemz85: The pound per square inch or, more accurately, pound-force per square inch (abbreviations: psi, lbf/in2, lbf/in2, lbf/sq in, lbf/sq in) is a unit of pressure or of stress based on avoirdupois units. See more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pounds_per_square_inch |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by jadatis: 1:48pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
Registered to react to this topic. Google for tire/tyre-pressure a lot because I call myself tyre-pressure specialist nowadays. Began on Dutch Camperforum with an article because I got hold of the formula used for it by the European Tyre makers. But in time gathered a lot information about the different ways of calculation, maximum load of tyres for different maximum speeds, and the difference between maximum pressure and maxloadpressure/AT-pressure/reference-pressure/ pressure needed for the maximum load. The goal of tyre/pressure advice is to give the tyre a deflection so the bending of the rubber does not generate more heat on important spots ( or beter rings) then it can cool down between the deflections, and those rings dont get higher temperature then about 130degr C/??F. A tire at 80 km/50m/h rotates about 10 times a second and every segment of it deflects and flexes back by that 10 times a second. What tyre makers give on sidewall is the maximum load to carry at the pressure needed for the maximum load up to maximum speed of tyre or if lower 160km/99m/h. Then even 20 times a second rotation of tyre. The goal of the calculation for lower loads is to give the tyre the same deflection over the whole range of pressure/load combinations, and by that the same heat generation wich it can cool down at the speed between teh deflections. also saw here the different maximum pressures mentioned. But this is not the maxloadpressure . Here a small list. Normal car tyre/standard load > maxloadpressure 2.5 bar/36 psi with exeptions to lower in European system. American system always 35psi/2,4 bar. XL/Extraload/Reinforced tyres > maxl.pr. 2.9bar/42psi with exeptions 2.8/41 and 3.0/44. USA always 41 psi/2.8 bar. C-load/6 PR ( for Plyrating) > maxl.Pr. 3,8bar/55 psi . USA 50 psi/ 3.4 bar. D-load/8PR > maxloadpressure 4.5bar/65 psi or 4.75/69 or 4.8/70. USA only 65 psi/4.5 bar. and so on, but for American TRA system a bit different. And the lesson for today for Clemz85 PSI stands for Pounds per Squaire Inch. Edit : already saw this question answered. I dare to state that Normal air filling with a bit of liquid water in it is better then to fill with dry air or Nitrogen for normal car tyres. Already made a Dutch document for it and will translate it to English in time. And Nitrogen needs about the same energy to heat up a degree as air in vollume . Selling arguments for Nitrogen sometimes mention Nitrogen more , but this is in mass . for any gas pressure rises the same at a sertain temperature rising. So you see there is much more to write . |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 2:04pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
jadatis: very grateful for insightful contributions and the trouble taken to be able to contribute. Please elaborate further |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by jadatis: 2:34pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
OK we go on. The car makers use this formula , or gives a tyre maker the loads and speed, they want to have the pressure for, and let them calculate it for them. Before 2000 in Europe there was given , a Normal advice for wich Car maker determined an Axle load for 3 persons and a little load , wich was for front wheel drive ( because of motor in front front heaviër) higher pressure then rear. For fully loaded the MPAW/GAWR/MTA where used ( Maximum permisable axle weights) to fill in the formula , wich most is for rear more load so rear higher pressure. In the 1990's rear was often put at maxloadpressure or even maximum pressure of tyre, to cover overloading , wich they discovered to happen often at rear. America has always given only advice pressure for GAWR ( gross axle weight rating) but calculated wit a formula that lead to lower pressures so more deflection. As late as 2005 they stepped over to the calculation of European ETRTO , saying it was for globally using the same system, but left C-load/6PR and up at the old formula , still ask myself why. After 2000 European car makers only gave for normal use 4 persons and load for wich MPAW where filled in , so what before that was for fully loaded. Heavy loaded advice is now for when towing and maxloadpressure of tyre is used behind. By this chanche a lot of confusion game in. But if you can produce the exact weighed loads on seperate tyres , for the situation you use , still a pressure can be calculated for that , wich is for 99% of use only 2 persons and a little load ,and so most likely front higher pressure then behind, yust as the old normal advice. I now use for that my own universal formula with my own settings, to idea of an American IR who wrote an article about an alternative way of calculating and mentions the names Padua and Rhine, and compares it to the universal used formula of tyre makers with their different used powers in it in Europe and America. Will give the link for those who interests it , but be ware its a long story . http://www.dawsengineering.com/linked_files/tirepressureatreducedloads.pdf The difference between maxload- and maximum-pressure is used to high up the maxloadpressure before putting in the formula , for speed with a system depending on speedcode , and for alighnment ( camber-angle wheels like this on the ( imaginary axle) /-\ ) On Standard load and XL// tyres only maximum pressure is given , from C-load and up rule is maxloadpressure given , so there maximum pressure is higher . Determined it once from a PDF of Semperit ( continental) that maxpress= 1.4 X maxloadpressure. To be continued if wanted |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 3:00pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
I am trying to digest the above...quite a mouthful or should I say a truckload? |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by IdaraCHODB(m): 3:05pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
jadatis: i have a car that using the american system 35psi, but maximum tire pressure rating is 40psi. I always fill it to 40psi not 35psi. Because i don't know how to describe it but I feel it drives better with 40psi. Is that dangerous? |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by jadatis: 4:18pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
Not particularly dangerous because below the maximum pressure of a normal Standard load ( USA P-tire) tyre, wich is at minimum 44 psi. but because that 35 psi is for maximum loaded car, and you probably dont drive maximum loaded , you can experience some discomfort by bumping, and nervous and verry light stearing. Also the tire is easyer punctured at higher pressure. But if you dont experiënce that all , keep using that 40 psi , always save for tire and livetime of tire. Centre wear does not happen that fast for radial tires. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Dieumerci(m): 6:25pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
Good comments, Sir. jadatis: |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by icemann(m): 7:13pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
CityNG: Nitrogen for fee? Ask again |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 9:39pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by Nobody: 9:40pm On Oct 06, 2014 |
IdaraCHODB: Go nu the psi on the door jamb not on the tire. |
| Re: Tire Inflation Discussion - What's Appropriate And What Is Not by icemann(m): 12:40am On Oct 07, 2014 |
CityNG: Most places i know air is free but nitrogen cost money. The dealership i go to charges $10 per sedan tire for Nitrogen. No and What is the big deal about Costco? I do discount tires for my tires. |
We can ring any car engine, no blue smoke or oil shortage, Abuja / This Is Probably The Most Amazing Features In The Acura Tl 2012! / What Happens To Vehicles In A Typical Norwegian Scrap Yard
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 71 |