JMAN05:


Many of what you said above were correct. Jesus left many privileges when he came on earth. To be a human is a mark of humility. Please take note that the standard trinitarian teaching is that Jesus was God-man when on earth, so he had all the authorities as did God even while on earth. if not, he cant be a God-man. Bear that in mind cos your post seem to ignore that.

With that in mind, and the bible saying that God exalted him, does it not now mean that Jesus is above God? tooth for thought!

Now, the prayer Jesus made for his father to restore him to the glory he earlier had is among what God gave him, but God gave him more.

For instance, though Jesus had glory prior to his coming on earth, it was after his resurrection that God gave him all authority in heaven and on earth.

It is against trinitarian teaching to believe that Jesus' power was delegated nor that he was given authority. That's one of the things that show the bible doesnt support this dogma. why? God almighty has always been in authority and had always been the most powerful. He is the Almighty remember? thats why he differs from Jesus.

2. It was after his sacrifice that he was given a name above every other name, that is why you pray and end "in Jesus name". Those in prechristian era were never required to do so. john 16:24

3. It was also after the sacrifice that he became a mediator.

4. It was also after the sacrifice that he was elevated as a king of God's kingdom.

5. the command God gave to the angels to "do obeisance" (proskyneos) to Jesus in that hebrews you quoted was never given prior to his coming on earth.

Yes, God really elevated him to a position above what he previously had, could anyone elevate the Almighty? couldnt he have been innately elevated?

But all Jesus was given is to earn glory for God, not to himself. to the glory of God the Father. phil 2:11

However, this is not the main issue of the thread. I await the other point you promise to post.

benalvino1:


So you really don't know where God said he didn't create any God beside him?

Isaiah 44:6-8

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

Isaiah 45:5

5 � I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:21-22

21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.

The verse you presented use a negative word on other gods... the word is "so-called"

Weah96:


Human parents do not have the gift of omniscience, so a test of loyalty can be justified on those grounds.

Yahweh is described as omniscient, therefore any subsequent test to determine the loyalty of human beings is REDUNDANT.

Weah96:

It goes to show that the words of the bible are merely the ramblings of drug addicts under the influence of psychoactive plants, not unlike extant native doctors and shamans.

Weah96:

I haven't conceded anything on faith.
Let's take your faith in the existence of Jesus as an example. Do you have any evidence for his existence other than mere faith in the text of the bible?

RikoduoSennin:


So according to you, Jesus is God and the Almighty. In the book of Acts, Jesus was seen standing/sitting BESIDE "the Father", So are the scriptures quoted above a lie or contradict each other.

RikoduoSennin:


Who told you Yahweh is omniscience? He told Abraham that he is going down to check if the report about Sodom and Gomorrah is true. He only knew Abraham's faith when he was about to Sacrifice his son, He regretted in making man etc does that sound to you like omniscience.

You don't believe in him, yet you use such words to discribe him.NB. He has the ability to know but he chooses when and how to use it, he is not a. Insufferable know-it-all kind of person.




You opinion, not that it matters. The advice found in the bible are timeless- that's is why it is the most widely distributed, translated book in the history of man.



You don't believe in the bible, you don't know what faith is, just leave it like that. Don't argue something you know little about. We who have faith are telling you why we have it (that is, based on EVIDENCE).

The fact that Jesus exist- archeology confirms the existence of caiaphas, Pontus Pilate, and other people along with their rank and position held during the time of Jesus.

Timeline (BC, AD), entire religion spanning from the first century C.E, etc are based on a fictious character so you tell me.

benalvino1:


To address your first point... the bible describe Jesus as a mighty God as well as the father and it also describe the father as God almighty as well as Jesus in Revelations.
God exalted him because he was better than both angels and man but he dropped equality with God Phil 2:6 says he did not consider equality with God.... the key word is equality which means equal. Now he came in the form of man to redeem us therefore was below even angels... so what happened? God exalted him back to where he was and it doesn't mean Jesus is above or below.

You are contradicting your self...

The angels worship not obeisance... in Revelations you admitted it was a form of worship the elders and angels were giving to the lamb which will be idolatrous based on the teachings of the bible if Jesus is not God.

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship Jesus.” (Heb 1:6)
One cannot tell this was referring to his resurrection, it says when Jesus came to the world let all angels worship him.


The bible said God manifest in flesh... which God that manifest in flesh? You tell me.

Some of your points are not relevant.... the basis of the trinity explained it already. There is one God that manifest in 3 distinct ways to save mankind.

JMAN05:


No, they are all relevant. respond to all of them. Or you want me to pick and respond?

benalvino1:


I have answered your questions with Phil 2:6 it says EQUALITY with God is what he didn't consider when he was downgrading him self to become man. So if he was equal with God then he dropped all those authority when he became man. That verse addresses all your question... It shows the task he came to do and he did it... After which he was elevated back to the power of God(right hand of God)

JMAN05:


When Jesus said all authority in heaven and on earth has been gjven him, was he in heaven?

When the bible said that he was elevated to a name, which makes you to now end your prayers in Jesus name, did Jesus earn that privilege prior to his coming on earth?

Was he made a king prior to his coming on earth? what about his being a mediator?

Did you respond to that too? go back and respond to all my points.

He didn't just consider it, but he never considered it a thing to be grasped.

benalvino1:


The point was he was equal to the father before he dropped everything that verse told you all and it when on to say because he dropped everything and died for man, the father elevated him back to the power of God...

So he was on earth.... but was he equal with the father before he dropped everything as the verse indicate?

According to the blessed Apostle Paul, the Lord Jesus existed in the very nature of God who chose not to cling to his equality with God (the Father) but voluntarily set aside his Divine privileges in order to assume the role of a servant by becoming a man:

That includes the authority as well.

Before Jesus came to earth he was in heaven and was not called Jesus so we can't really comment on that...

JMAN05:


Sorry, your method is unacceptable. STOP picking what you like and leaving the rest, unless you want me to do the same, or didnt you see all I posted?

And why are you not being straight here? The bible said because of his humility God elevated him to a superior position. Today, you pass your prayers in the name of Jesus. that was among the privileges. Was Jesus name essential in prayer to God prior to this time? How can you say he was elevated to his former position? did he have that privilege back then?

Who told you that heb 1:6 is talking about his existence on earth prior to his death? read it once more.

I will dwell more on all of your claim when you respond to my posts intoto.

benalvino1:


I still think those questions are not relevant but I will answer
Christ is Perfect mediator between God & man because HE perfectly represents GOD as such He is the IMAGE of the invisible God [Colossians 1:15] & that the fullness of God is in Him [Col. 2:9]. He is the Word of God [John 1:1-18 & Rev. 19:16] who came down & became human [Philippians 2:6-7].

2) As Man
Because He became flesh [Jn 1:14 & Philippians 2:6-7] or man He has completely & perfectly represented us men before the Father & is able to become a perfect sacrifice for our sins because NO MERE human can take away humanity's sins except if He is DIVINE [Mark 2:7].

Because being a Perfect Mediator means perfect REPRESENTATION then we can say that Jesus is indeed ONE with the Father [John 10:30] as such ALL that belongs to the Father is Jesus' also [John 16:15]. That's why WORSHIPING Christ is not blasphemy [Matthew 28:17] because it is good to worship God ONLY [Luke 4:8].

About the praying in Jesus name, it is clear that when Jesus took Moses out of Egypt then he is referred to as God.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Like the passage I presented, everything that belongs to the father belongs to Jesus, worship and prayers... God said he will not share worship or praise with anyone... he also made it clear he never created any God, Jesus is God so there is a problem.

Plainly, the God who was leading the Israelites out of Egypt, through the Red Sea and into the Promised Land was Christ! Christ provided manna to eat (Exodus 16:4, 31, 35) and water to drink, sometimes from solid rock (Exodus 17:6). Calling the food and drink "spiritual" has a dual meaning: It was supernaturally provided, plus it also represented the spiritual sustenance Christ was providing as the bread of life and the water of life (John 4:14; 6:30-35).

Again I still point to the fact that Jesus became man, he was brought into the world through Mary, he lived as a perfect man, he died and resurrected, he had a name and the father elevate him to where he was before he became man...

I don't know how Hebrew 1:6 was saying it was after Jesus resurrected God said that, I like you to explain further. Keep it in mind that Jesus said you should serve and worship only God... but he is being worshipped and served as well. Unless you agree that the bible is contradictory you have serious problems.

benalvino1:


I still think those questions are not relevant but I will answer
Christ is Perfect mediator between God & man because HE perfectly represents GOD as such He is the IMAGE of the invisible God [Colossians 1:15] & that the fullness of God is in Him [Col. 2:9]. He is the Word of God [John 1:1-18 & Rev. 19:16] who came down & became human [Philippians 2:6-7].

2) As Man
Because He became flesh [Jn 1:14 & Philippians 2:6-7] or man He has completely & perfectly represented us men before the Father & is able to become a perfect sacrifice for our sins because NO MERE human can take away humanity's sins except if He is DIVINE [Mark 2:7].

Because being a Perfect Mediator means perfect REPRESENTATION then we can say that Jesus is indeed ONE with the Father [John 10:30] as such ALL that belongs to the Father is Jesus' also [John 16:15]. That's why WORSHIPING Christ is not blasphemy [Matthew 28:17] because it is good to worship God ONLY [Luke 4:8].

About the praying in Jesus name, it is clear that when Jesus took Moses out of Egypt then he is referred to as God.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Like the passage I presented, everything that belongs to the father belongs to Jesus, worship and prayers... God said he will not share worship or praise with anyone... he also made it clear he never created any God, Jesus is God so there is a problem.

Plainly, the God who was leading the Israelites out of Egypt, through the Red Sea and into the Promised Land was Christ! Christ provided manna to eat (Exodus 16:4, 31, 35) and water to drink, sometimes from solid rock (Exodus 17:6). Calling the food and drink "spiritual" has a dual meaning: It was supernaturally provided, plus it also represented the spiritual sustenance Christ was providing as the bread of life and the water of life (John 4:14; 6:30-35).

Again I still point to the fact that Jesus became man, he was brought into the world through Mary, he lived as a perfect man, he died and resurrected, he had a name and the father elevate him to where he was before he became man...

I don't know how Hebrew 1:6 was saying it was after Jesus resurrected God said that, I like you to explain further. Keep it in mind that Jesus said you should serve and worship only God... but he is being worshipped and served as well. Unless you agree that the bible is contradictory you have serious problems.

Weah96:


You raise a number of interesting points. First of all, I didn't know that the Christian God, Yahweh, was not omniscient. My mistake. I got that idea from the following verses in the bible, just to name a few:

Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth
and sees everything under the heavens.

Isaiah 46:9
I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.



1 John 3:19-20
By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.


Psalm 139:4
Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O Lord, you know it altogether.

Weah96:

Regarding your Jesus business, you and I know that proving his actual existence takes us nowhere. There's this little pickle about him being the son of the yet unproven Yahweh which must be overcome.

JMAN05:


You like dancing awilo. You left the question you asked and start answering what rings in you mind.

All authority has been given me in heaven and on earth. when did he possess this authority, before or after the resurrection?

When did he become the mediator? heb 9:15

When was he given a name above every other name? phil 2:9

when did "Jesus name" become a passage to God? John 16:24

When was Jesus made king of God's kingdom? when did he sit at God's right hand? Heb 10:12, 13.

Did Christ receive all these while in heaven? give a straight answer, dont circumvent again.

Heb 1:6: American Standard Version, states "when he again bringeth...". Is it clear now?

Proskyneo usually translated as "worship" is not it's only meaning. In short, its basic meaning is bow down or pay obeisance in form of greeting.

Because of what Jesus said at Luke 4:8, God alone is to be given true worship.

The translation you guys use contribute to your problem of misunderstanding.

For eg, read Rev 3:9kjv

From that ^^ who else did it say is given worship? isn't that polytheism from your words above?

RikoduoSennin:


I've just pointed some reasons backing the existence of the man Jesus, you have not acknowledge that, you are bring the existence of Yahweh into it.

Did a man called christ Jesus lived on earth during the first century C.E, yes or No? That is the issue.

His he the son of Yahweh? Is there a Yahweh at all? Both are questions for another time and thread, don't you think.

DoctorAshley:
hey...someone jst said jesus is equal to his father hw can someone be equal to their father

DoctorAshley:
hey...someone jst said jesus is equal to his father hw can someone be equal to their father