They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland
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| They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by LagosShia: 10:06am On Oct 13, 2014 |
Misyar now ‘a widespread reality’  In this file photo, dozens of men are shown during a mass wedding sponsored by Al-Bir Charitable Society in Shuqaiq. At this time when marrying in the Kingdom has become too costly, mass weddings are seen as a logical way to avoid miser marriages. (SPA) RIYADH: Abdul Hannan Tago Published — Sunday 12 October 2014 Last update 12 October 2014 3:07 pm Misyar marriage has become a social reality and, as such, a solution to some problems and a cause of others, said a professor at King Saud University in Riyadh. “Misyar is widespread because many need to keep their marriages a secret, either due to the objection of the first wife or other family pressures,” Ali Al-Bakr, faculty member at KSU, told a local daily. Getting married in the Kingdom is no longer easy, according to one report, thanks to countless social and economic obstacles, including extortionate dowries, costly wedding extravaganzas and lack of housing. In a misyar marriage the woman waives some of the rights she would enjoy in a normal marriage. Most misyar brides don’t change their residences but pursue marriage on a visitation basis. Some marriage officials say seven of 10 marriage contracts they conduct are misyar, and in some cases are asked to recommend prospective misyar partners. Some people believe that these factors have led to the widespread practice of misyar, which has flexible conditions compared with traditional marriages, as a last resort. “It remains an option, albeit a temporary one, which is, nevertheless, seen as unfair to women in many cases,” said a national. Saeed Al-Omari, a Saudi lawyer, said that such marriages have been legally recognized since conditions, including the presence of guardians and witnesses, are in place within their framework. He said the Misyar practice is in line with Ministry of Justice regulations requiring the husband to sign contract documents that have to be ratified by local courts in accordance with Article 22 of the Saudi Marriage Act. Despite there being consensus among a large segment of religious scholars about the legality of the Misyar model or marriage, not least because it stops youth from having illicit relations outside of wedlock, the practice is still considered taboo among many communities. “The practice has been exploited by many, leading to negative stereotypes among several communities, which consider Misyar an insult to women,” he said. For Al-Omar, this type of marriage could, nonetheless, reduce spinsterhood and protect divorcees and widows. It also comes to the rescue of youth, many of whom cannot afford either the short-term and long-term costs of regular marriages. http://www.arabnews.com/news/642991 |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by ZhulFiqar: 10:20am On Oct 13, 2014 |
"We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?" (Qur'an 41:53) |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 12:41pm On Oct 13, 2014 |
Sometimes I wonder how the ignorants and uninformed keeps on attacking the Shi'a on Mut'a nikkah whereas this non-sunna practice of Misyar Nikkah is good to them. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by MrOlai: 6:12pm On Oct 15, 2014 |
One of the reasons why Shi'a are not considered muslims in Islam according to some scholars is because of the fornication/adultery (mut'a) they legalized. With their mut'a(fornication/adultery), they've created a lot of problems in so many families. Besides, fornication/adultery is a major sin in Islam. For this and many other reasons, Shi'a are not considered muslims in Islam according to some scholars! May Allah(SWT) guide them back into Islam (Amin). 2 Likes |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by lanrexlan(m): 7:34pm On Oct 15, 2014 |
Narrated 'Ali: "I said to Ibn 'Abbas, 'During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al- Mut'a [Temporary Marriage] and the eating of donkey's meat.' (Sahih Bukhari,Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah),Volume 7,Book 62, Number 50). Please,is there another definition of Sunnah? 1 Like |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 7:29am On Oct 16, 2014 |
MrOlai: MrOlai, its very unfortunate you haven't grown up in the way you think. This is not the first time you and I have had encountered on issue of Mut'a with many of your pathetic word of abuse. Pls Note that even if a muslim commit adultery or fornicate, that crime has not take him away from the fold of Islam. It is however shameful that you refuse to talk about the legislation of Misyar Nikkah by Sunni Ulama. However, as per Nikkah Mut'a, know that both Sunni and Shi'a do not have any disagreement as to its legality sanctioned by Allah in the Quran and the Sunnah of His prophet (peace be on him and his progeny). Where the difference is; as always been its abrogation or continuity. While Sunni maintained that prophet later forbid it before he died, Shi'a argued he did not. A sincere muslim only need to study both party's argument to dissect the actual truth rather than judging a side of the coin with emotional feeling. Lastly, Ibn Abbas was asked: 'Is mut'a a fornication or marriage?' He answered: 'Neither the one nor the other.' The questioner then asked: 'Well then what is it?' Ibn Abbas replied: 'It is Mut'a', just as God has said...." ~Fakhr deen al-Razi, Tafsir al-Kabir vol. III p.286. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 8:38am On Oct 16, 2014 |
In the 'ilm hadith' according to Sunni standard, two things are needed to be study for the validity of hadith: "Sanadul Hadith (chain of transmission) and Matn-ul hadith (content of the hadith)". The problem is many Sunni scholars and students only study the chain and not the content. Then, the 'infallibility' status given to sahih al-Bukhari and Muslim blind-fold many scholars to see loopholes. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani in his Fath Bari and Sheik Nasir deen Al-Albani CRITICIZED many hadith in sahih al-Bukhari. lanrexlan: The problem with this hadith is the content (matn). The holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny), as agreed by all muslim historian, permitted Mut'a in the year Mecca was conquered. So how could 'Ali have claimed that Mut'a was banned on the Day of Khaybayr (3years before Mecca's conquest)? Then another narration from Imam 'Ali is in sharp contradiction to the first narration attributed to him. He says: "If 'Umar had not prohibited mut'a, no one would commit fornication except the wretched" ~Fakhr deen al-Razi, Tafsir al-Kabir vol. III p. 287 Then Ibn Abbas is also reported to have said: "'God have mercy on 'Umar! Mut'a was naught but a mercy from God, through which He showed mercy to Muhammad's community. If 'Umar had not banned it, no one would need fornication except the wretched." ~Imam Abdur-Rahman Jalaludeen as-Suyuti, al-Dhurr al-Manthur, vol. II p. 141 Yet in another narration, Jabir ibn 'Abd Allah is reported in Sahih Muslim: "Jabir came (to Mecca) for the Umra, so we went to see him where he was staying. He was asked about many things, and then mut'a was mentioned. He said: 'Yes, we practiced mut'a at the time of the messenger of Allah, Abu Bakar and 'Umar" ~Sahih Muslim vol. IV p. 131 Umar's Speech "Two Mut'a were practiced during the time of the prophet (i.e temporary marriage and mut'at al-hajj), but I forbid both of them and will punish anyone who practices either." ~Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, al-Musnad vol. I p. 52 (Beirut ed.) "God permitted for His prophet what He willed, and the Qur'an has been revealed in its entirety. So complete the hajj and the Umra as God has commanded you. But avoid marrying these women, and do not bring before me any man who has married a woman for a specified period, or I will stone him." ~al-Sahih Muslim (cairo ed. 1334/1916), vol. IV p. 38 (chapter: al-mut'a bi 'l-hajj wa'l- 'umra). These are explicit sermons which proved beyond any aiota of doubt that it was 'Umra who banned Mut'a and not the prophet. He (Umar) never attributed the banned to the prophet. No wonder his son, Abdullah opposed his father and answered a questioner who asked "Is your father not prohibit mut'a?". Abdullah ibn Umar said: "Are you following the prophet or my father?" Lastly, since majority of Mufassir agreed that sura Nisai: 24 refer to validity of Mut'a, we believe ONLY another verse of the Quran can abrogate the previous and NEVER the reported words of the holy prophet (saws). This is clear from the Quran: "If We erase an ayah, We substitute with a better ayah" Wa salam alaykum |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 8:42am On Oct 16, 2014 |
LagosShia: This issue of paying lip service to what we read arises here once again, Mutah is by far an irresponsible insult upon women vedaxcool:  is this life?Misyr remains a saudi problem, due to the exhorbitant nature of marriage, Most Nigeria don't know it exists. https://www.nairaland.com/828391/mutah-pimps |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 8:44am On Oct 16, 2014 |
lanrexlan: It is called mouth gynastics, if Sahih Bukhari "confirms" their fantasies it is sunnah, if not, it is contrived! |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 8:48am On Oct 16, 2014 |
Question: As-Salam Alaykum, What is the difference between “Mutah” of the Shia and “Misyar” of the Sunnis? I have heard many Shia defending Mutah by accusing Sunnis of believing in Misyar which they say is a very degrading institution. Can you please tell me what is the difference between the two, and how do we respond to a Shia person who says this? Answer by Team Ahlel Bayt: Firstly, the Shia scholars believe in the permissibility of Misyar. So all these silly e-Shia propagandists are making fools of themselves by demonizing Misyar. The permissibility of Misyar marriage has been stated on the official website of Grand Ayatollah Sistani. We read: Question: Is it permissible to do Misyar Marriage ? What is opinion of Sayed Sistani regarding this? Answer: In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Assalamu Alaykum The rules of the marriage are stated in the fatwaa books; hence, if the required conditions are satisfied then it is permissible. Wa Alaykum Assalam (source: The Official Website of Grand Ayatollah Sistani) Secondly, Mutah is temporary and so it is like prostitution. Instead, Misyar is permanent and is therefore a marriage. So this is the fundamental and monumental difference between Mutah and Misyar. In Mutah, a Shia man pays a few dollars to have sex with a LovePeddler, and they are “married” for less than one hour. On the other hand, Misyar is permanent and lasts forever. In fact, it is Haram to contract Misyar if you have the intention of divorce. So it is the same as Nikah (i.e. it is Haram to have the intention to divorce when you marry that person). So what is Misyar? Misyar is simply when the woman voids her right to be financially supported by her husband. This makes common sense: how many of university students today can relate to this? The man is still in university and can therefore not support a girl financially. Instead of getting into a life of sin, the two get married and the woman voids her right to maintenance so that they can get married. That is all. That is it. Nothing at all similar to Mutah. Mutah = temporary = prostitution Misyar = permanent = marriage This craze to equate Mutah with Misyar is one of the desperate attempts of the Shia propagandists to conflate simple issues, just like they conflate abrogation with Tahreef. This is to hide their embarrassment over their filthy religion which allows women to be rented by the hour. Another major difference between Misyar and Mutah is that the Sunni scholars have stated that Misyar is discouraged whereas the Shia scholars actively encourage Mutah, claiming that a woman who whores herself out in Mutah to two men will be forgiven all her sins and enter Paradise. Once again, there is absolutely no comparison between Misyar (which is permanent) to Mutah (which is temporary and can last for even one hour or one day). https://www.nairaland.com/829216/examples-sunni-immorality-contractual-sex/1#9821355 |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 9:08am On Oct 16, 2014 |
A very distubring video on Mutah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBqpkbVFfmw Mutah is a noun meaning SEX CONTRACT. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 9:12am On Oct 16, 2014 |
vedaxcool: Do you mind giving the link to official statement of Ayatullah Ali Sistani as you boldly posted? It is unfortunate while on one hand you claim Misyar Nikkah is Saudi problem and on the other hand, you believe it to be: vedaxcool: Ibn Abbas was asked: 'Is mut'a a fornication or marriage?' He answered: 'Neither the one nor the other.' The questioner then asked: 'Well then what is it?' Ibn Abbas replied: 'It is Mut'a', just as God has said. The questioner continued: 'Is there a waiting period in mut'a? He replied: 'Yes, menstrual period.' 'Do the husband and wife inherit from each other? 'He answered: 'No" ~Fakhr deen al-Razi, Tafsir al-Kabir vol. III p.286. I have NEVER seen you dialogue Islamic issue with "wisdom, good manners and argue in the best way". I however salute your courage of always fighting DIRTY. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 9:15am On Oct 16, 2014 |
vedaxcool: https://www.nairaland.com/828367/plea-muslim-sister#9795840 |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 9:17am On Oct 16, 2014 |
Official website of Ayatullah Ali Sistani on Mut'a: www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2350/ |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 9:18am On Oct 16, 2014 |
AlBaqir: some people cannot be helped |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 9:27am On Oct 16, 2014 |
vedaxcool: It is interesting to note that many of your salaf among whom were Abdullah ibn Zubayr and 'Urwah Ibn Zubayr were born out of the wedlock of Nikkah Mut'a contracted between Asma bint Abu Bakar and Zubayr ibn Awwam. Quran, hadith and history are before you to prove the validity of mut'a yet you insist fighting dirty. I 100% agreed with you that "some people cannot be helped". |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 9:40am On Oct 16, 2014 |
E.O.D  |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 10:06am On Oct 16, 2014 |
lanrexlan: vedaxcool: It is interesting how you've use The bible over time and again against the christian to support the notion that God is one and Jesus is not God etc. Yet while christian accuse you of cherry picking bible verses, you and I will not hesitate to tender so many intellectual argument to prove our points. Using Bukhari and Muslim's Sahih on one hand to prove points, and sometimes, against them on the other hand, is a prove and believe that Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are not infallible from error as against political popular opinion that those two books are infallible. Only Quran is free from Error and contradictions Sheik Nasir deen al-Albani writes: "But, whoever is in doubt concerning the verdicts I have given concerning some hadith (in sahih al-Bukhari), let him refer to Fath al-Bari, and he will find there lots and lots of things (in sahih al-Bukhari) which have been CRITICIZED by al-Hafiz Ahmad b. Hajar al-Asqalani, who is rightly named the Amir al-Muminin in Hadith, and whom I believe - and I suppose that anyone who has this knowledge (i.e science of hadith) would agree with me - that no woman has ever given birth to anyone like him after him". ~Abu 'Abd al-Rahman Muhammad Nasir al-Din b. al-Hajj Nuh b. Adam al-Ashqudi al-Albani, FATAWA (cairo: Maktabah al-Turath al-Islami; 1st edition, 1414H) p. 525 Only a fanatic and ignorant fellow will hold such belief that every single content of sahih Bukhari and muslim are accurate. 1 Like |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by vedaxcool(m): 1:36pm On Oct 16, 2014 |
Watch the shia scholar reaction to towards the mid section of the video on simple question concerning mutah found in their book, if mutah was such a good thing, why would he act so angrily to what is supposedly sunnah? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR_2RvFbgkM |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 4:39pm On Oct 16, 2014 |
vedaxcool:As per (the video of) Yassir al Habib, rather than initially making a derail comment, its better to watch the video and respond appropriately. vedaxcool:Like I said earlier you like fighting dirty by derailing from the main topic since you cannot get hold of your emotion whenever you are battered. The topic is on Misyar Nikkah vis-a-vis Nikkah Mut'a. A good muslim dialogue in a civil, academic, enlightened and morally manner not like a fanatical rogue. Dr. Yasir Qadhi: "Lack of knowledge and wisdom made me say bad things about the Shi'a" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLvsQA1oaCg&itct=CCQQpDAYByITCLTo2Pi0pMECFQJ2qgodsVIAl1IIUHJlc3MgdHY%3D&hl=en-GB&gl=NG&client=mv-google |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by LagosShia: 7:53pm On Oct 16, 2014 |
vedaxcool: [b]it is natural for the Shia scholar to feel offended with such a question, because the Sunni scholar was being scornful. there is no where in Islam or in Shia beliefs that mut'ah can be done with a married woman, talk less of doing it with the wife of an imam. whether mut'ah or permanent marriage, either cannot be done with a woman who is married. it would amount to adultery or prostitution. it isn't a question of whether it is "good" or "bad", after all mut'ah is not an obligatory act. the Shia have come under criticism because based on Shia belief, as per the Holy Qur'an, it is forbidden to make "forbidden what Allah has permitted" (Surat Tahreem). while it is not a question of "good" or "bad", and it is not an obligatory act, mut'ah remains an Islamic institution that the Prophet (sa) himself established as per Quran 4:24 (known as the Verse of Mut'ah). therefore, whether you think it is "good" or "bad" is inconsequential to its permissibility. you have been given the choice of not practicing it, since its not obligatory. i do not know why you try your best to condemn something and bad-mouth it when even Sunnis agree that the practice was done and permissible in the time of the Prophet (sa), and only afterwards did the "Prophet (sa) discontinue its validity" or "later on forbade it". the Shia, as evidence point out in Sunni books, believe it was never the Prophet (sa) who "later forbade" it, but rather, it was Umar, the second Sunni caliph. however, it is bitter fact for Sunnis that their beloved caliph can disallow what the Prophet (sa) put in the place. if they can accept that on mut'ah, there are other practices too (like taraweeh) that Umar went contrary to the Prophet's ruling. he allowed things the Prophet (sa) forbade (like taraweeh), and disallowed what the Prophet (sa) had allowed before his death (like mut'ah). this speaks of a rebellious caliph, whom the Shia dislike by the way, and Sunnis do all the whitewashing for him. this is the gist of all the arguments and fighting and derailing of the thread. its not worth it. also, anything can be abused or misused or violated, even permanent marriage. however, you dont condemn permanent marriage because men beat their wives for instance. we as Shia hold in principle that mut'ah is a sunnah and Islamic teaching as found in both the Holy Qur'an and the hadiths. and we also hold in principle that Misyar, no matter how well sugarcoated with all its flaws and abuses, is a bid'ah and was never part of Islam. it is bid'ah just like prostrating on a mat is also bid'ah, and it can be proven (from the words of one of the harshest Shia critics, Ibn Taymiyyah) that the Prophet (sa) always maintained prostration on earth, as the Shia continue to prostrate on turbah (molded earth). [/b] |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 8:52pm On Oct 16, 2014 |
AlBaqir , vedaxcool Let's hear from horses' mouth. @ AlBaqir what is mut'ah marriage?, it benefits and references from Quran?. Why is it called mut'ah?. Leave hadith out for now, please. Please do keep your definition and Quran references simple. I dont need scholar's opinion for now. Just Quran. @vedaxcool, what does mut'ah mariage means to you, your definition, reference from Quran and hadith for or against. Let's hear your opinion, please. Do please keep it simply. Thank you |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 9:04am On Oct 17, 2014 |
Empiree: The Arabic dictionaries define mut'a as enjoyment, pleasure, delight.' The root form, m-t-,' signifies, 'to carry away, to take away.' A 'marriage of mut'a' is a marriage which the contract stipulates will last for a fixed period of time. The word 'istimta' used in sura Nisa:24, is the 10th verbal form of the root m-t-', translated as 'enjoy'. In this sura Nisai, after listing those women to whom marriage is forbidden, the Quran states as follows: "Lawful for you is what is beyond all that, that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in licence. So those of them whom you ENJOY, give them their appointed wages; it is no fault in you in agreeing together, after the due apportionate. God is All-Knowing, All-Wise" ~Qur'an 4:24 All shi'i Ulama and many Sunni 'Ulama hold that this verse especially the words: ' those of them whom you ENJOY (istamta'tum) refers to the permissibility of mut'a. Note that this verse in effect confirmed an existing situation. It was a common practice among the people of Madina then. BENEFITS Its about fulfilling sexual desire whose fire is difficult to extinguish once ignited. Sex and sexual desire are integral part of man's fitra. Islam condemned masturbation, castration and celibacy. It enjoys sex only in a legalize way. Mut'a is simply designed for those who cannot control their sexual desire or feared the desire will lead him to sinning. Sex was initially forbidden with one's legal partners during the holy month of Ramadhan until the ban was lifted when desires cannot be controlled among various prominent sahaba: "It is made lawful for you to have sexual relations with your wives on the night of As-Saum (the fasts). They are Libas [i.e. body cover, or screen, or Sakan, (i.e. you enjoy the pleasure of living with her)for you and you are the same for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He turned to you (accepted your repentance) and forgave you. ~sura al-Baqarah:187 * - What is Islam's solution for a soldier's sexual desire, on a mission of 1, 2, 3, etc years putting in mind that even prominent sahaba could not hold themselves within a short period of 1month fasting? Interestingly, this is the reason why mut'a was legislated at the time of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) when many sahaba complaint of their wives absence. Islam forbid masturbation and castration. * - A similar case is the one whose nature of work require traveling far away from his family for a specified period of time. * - Fiancees who hasn't get marry for certain reason or the other (social or financial). * - A widow, say with 4 children. It is difficult for such a woman to remarry esp in this modern age. Though the possibility is not ruled out. The holy prophet took the burden of getting married to several widow (catering for them and their children) when many wealthy sahaba turned them down. A woman in this situation who by nature want to fulfill her sexual desire is allowed to contract mut'a. * - Etc Etc. Lastly, there are some injunctions within Islamic arena that seem "socially and generally" unacceptable. Examples: Marrying one's relatives, having 2 - 4 wives, prophet's marriage to about 12wives etc. Mut'a inclusive. It is only when we look deep into the philosophical arguments surrounding these issues and treat them based on individual limitation rather than general...that is when we can appreciate the benefit and purpose of all these "weird" things. Wa salam alaykum 1 Like |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by lanrexlan(m): 11:50am On Oct 17, 2014 |
AlBaqir:There is nothing wrong with the content of this hadith,the content is very good.Nobody says Sahih Bukhari is 100% the same way Al-Kafi is not 100%. The problem with this hadith is the content (matn). The holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny), as agreed by all muslim historian, permitted Mut'a in the year Mecca was conquered. So how could 'Ali have claimed that Mut'a was banned on the Day of Khaybayr (3years before Mecca's conquest)?The Prophet(pbuh) permitted Muta'a twice,the first time the Prophet (pbuh) allowed it for three days, at the war of Khaiber and after three days it was made haram. The second time the Prophet (pbuh) allowed it was at the conquest of Mecca for three days, and then he made it haram again till the day of Judgment.Kindly read these Hadiths. 'Abd al-Malik b. Rabi' b. Sabraal-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father who narrated it on the authority of his father (i e. 'Abd al-Malik's grandfather, Sabura al-juhanni): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage in the Year of Victory, as we entered Mecca and we did come out of it but he forbade us to do it.[Sahih Muslim,Book 008,Book of Nikkah,Hadith Number 3255] 'Abd al-Malik b. Rabi' b. Sabraal-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father who narrated it on the authority of his father (i e. 'Abd al-Malik's grandfather, Sabura al-juhanni): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary marriage in the Year of Victory, as we entered Mecce, and we did come out of it but he forbade us to do it.[Sahih Muslim,Book Of Nikkah,Hadith Number 3257] Notice, the practice of muta'a was then made haram till the Day of Judgement.This is confirmed with the hadiths in the following books: Imam Ahmed's Musnad vol. 16 pg. 192-193, Muslim vol. 4, pg. 132, Bayhaki vol. 7 pg. 293-294] "Jabir came (to Mecca) for the Umra, so we went to see him where he was staying. He was asked about many things, and then mut'a was mentioned. He said: 'Yes, we practiced mut'a at the time of the messenger of Allah, Abu Bakar and 'Umar" ~Sahih Muslim vol. IV p. 131Ninety-nine percent of the companions followed the opinion that Muta'a is haram,but there was one percent who believed muta'a can be performed in extreme case of necessity in the land of war.The two cases in which the Prophet(pbuh) permitted Muta'a was during war time. People misused this opinion of Ibn Abbas until he clarified himself and said Urwa b. Zabair reported that 'Abdullah b. Zubair (Allah be pleased with him) stood up (and delivered an address) in Mecca saying: Allah has made blind the hearts of some people as He has deprived them of eyesight that they give religious verdict in favour of temporary marriage, while he was alluding to a person (Ibn 'Abbas). Ibn Abbas called him and said: You are an uncouth person, devoid of sense. By my life, Mut'a was practised during the lifetime of the leader of the pious (he meant Allah's Messenger, may peace be upon him), and Ibn Zubair said to him: just do it yourselves, and by Allah, if you do that I will stone you with your stones. Ibn Shihab said. Khalid b. Muhajir b. Saifullah informed me: While I was sitting in the company of a person, a person came to him and he asked for a religious verdict about Mut'a and he permitted him to do it. Ibn Abu 'Amrah al-Ansari (Allah be pleased with him) said to him:Be gentle. It was permitted in- the early days of Islam, (for one) who was driven to it under the stress of NECESSITY just as (the eating of) carrion and the blood and flesh of swine and then Allah intensified (the commands of) His religion and prohibited it (altogether).Ibn Shihab reported: Rabi' b. Sabra told me that his father (Sabra) said: I contracted temporary marriage with a woman of Banu 'Amir for two cloaks during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him);then he forbade us to do Mut'a.Ibn Shihab said: I heard Rabi' b. Sabra narrating it to Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz and I was sitting there[Sahih Muslim,Book 8,Book Of Nikkah,Hadith Number 3269] This was referring to the time when people abused the rule of necessity at time of Umar. Finally,Umar declared and taught it to be haram when a lady came to Umar complaining about how her husband in muta'a,who was married would not take responsibility of the child. He realized how the society was becoming corrupt with similar conditions to adultery.Thus, he had to teach people and make muta'a haram. Lastly, since majority of Mufassir agreed that sura Nisai: 24 refer to validity of Mut'a, we believe ONLY another verse of the Quran can abrogate the previous and NEVER the reported words of the holy prophet (saws). This is clear from the Quran:Surah Al-Ahzaab 33:52 -It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is Ever a Watcher over all things. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 12:42pm On Oct 17, 2014 |
AlBaqir: |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 12:57am On Oct 18, 2014 |
Salam dear brother. Jumu'a Mubarak in arrears. Hope school things is going on smooth. Success is yours bi quwatih wa izzatih wa Jalalih. lanrexlan: In sha Allah you shall soon see a lot is wrong with it. However, Bukhari's compilation is tagged "Sahih" (authentic). Al-kafi is al-kafi and no shi'a has EVER claimed all its contents are 100% sahih. You might be sincere and soft in saying what you said about Bukhari@underlined but larger Sunni % claimed otherwise. lanrexlan: First, I'm delighted you agree the fact that Mut'a (is) was part of Islam and the disagreement is weather it has been forbidden or not. That's a first step towards understanding! Second, there are conflicting reports if we are to be fair in this issue except we simply wanna emotionally argue with no conclusion at the end. 1. Report attributed to 'Ali that mut'a was forbidden in the day of Khaibar (7A.H) FOREVER. "Muhammad ibn Ali narrated on the authority of his father 'Ali that Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) on the day of khaibar prohibited FOREVER the contracting of temporary marriage and eating of the flesh of the domestic asses." ~Sahih Muslim. English version, vol. 2 chap.DXLI (titled: Temporary Marriage), tradition #3265. "Ali heard that Ibn Abbas gave some relaxation in connection of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn Abbas, for Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) on the day of khaibar prohibited FOREVER the doing of it and eating of the flesh of domestic asses." ~same ref as above, Tradition #3266. 2. Report attributed to Sabra al-Juhani that at the conquest of Makkah (8/9A.H), it was forbidden FOREVER till the day of judgment. You've qouted many of those reports and affirm it was forbidden forever on the day of conquest of Makkah. Then, what happened after the conquest of Makkah (8/9A.H)? This hadith revealed: 1. Narrated Iyas ibn Salama on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) gave sanction for contracting temporary marriage for three nights in the year of Autas (this was after the battle of Hunain in 8H)and then forbade it. Note: The sentence inside parenthesis is the translator's footnote. ~Sahih Muslim, English version vol2 tradition #3251 chap. DXLI (titled: Temporary Marriage) ~Sahih Muslim, Arabic version 1980 Edition pub in Saudi Arabia, vol.2 p.1023, hadith #18, "kitab al-Nikah, Bab Nikah al-Mut'a. Battle of Hunain was after the conquest of Makkah which took place in 9/10A.H and not 8A.H as the translator insinuated. However, whichever date it is, Hunain was after Fath Makkah How is it possible for Mut'a to be forbidden FOREVER at khaibar, then allowed at conquest of Makkah, then forbidden FOREVER after the conquest of Makkah, then allowed at Hunain? Third, if we are to be strict with Sunni 'ilm hadith (science of hadith), the report of Ibn Sabra al-Juhanni is rated as 'Mufrad or wahid (single) i.e all those reports about prohibition of Mut'a at conquest of Makkah, although through different chain of authority, all go back to Ibn Sabra himself. There is no Shawahid! Ibn Sabra, in sahih Muslim vol. 2, chp. DXLI (titled: temporary marriage), Tradition #3256; Arabic version vol. 2 p.1025 Tradition #21, narrated those versions you have quoted with these additional info: "I saw Allah's Messenger standing between the pillar and gate of ka'ba when speaking the hadith" So, how is possible that this hadith of prohibition of Mut'a at the conquest of Makkah was narrated ONLY by Ibn Sabra al-Juhanni while other speeches of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) at the conquest of Makkah were narrated through different narrators? Interestingly, Ibn Sabra claimed 'it was an open declaration' as indicated^ There was no even a single witness for his narration even with a weak chain. That makes Ibn Sabra's hadith suspected. Then his grandfather (who was also part of the chain) was never known or quoted by any. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 1:14am On Oct 18, 2014 |
lanrexlan:That's a bold but empty claim. No academic link to support that. And besides truth is not determined weather a large or small group of people follow a course or not. Our source here are dissecting Quran with various tafsir and hadith. The contrasting hadith of: 1. 'Ali which I quoted earlier which say "had Umar not banned Mut'a, no one except transgressor would have committed fornication" 2. Umar's two speeches which I also quoted earlier where he himself affirmed two mut'a were permitted and practiced during the time of the holy prophet but "I forbid it and will stone whoever practice it. (Please re-read again^) All these were after the demise of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) and none of them EVER said or make any reference that "prophet banned mut'a". 3. Then, Imran Ibn Hussain narrated: "The verse of Mut'a was revealed in Allah's book, and there did not came any other verse after that to abrogate it; and the prophet ordered us to do it, so we did it at the time of Allah's Apostle, and he did not forbade us from it till he died. But a man (who regarded it illegal) expressed what his own mind suggested." ~Tafsir al-Kabir, al-Thalabi under the commentary of Q 4:24 ~Tafsir al-Kabir, Fakhr deen al-Razi, vol. 3 under Q4:24 ~Tafsir Ibn Hayyan, under the commentary Q4:24 etc. NB: The same narration of Imran Ibn Hussain was recorded in Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 6 hadith #43; Arabic version vol.2 p.375, vol.6 p. 34 (Also, Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbali, vol. 4 p. 436 narrated by 'Imran ibn al-Qasir). Interestingly, the saudi translator of Sahih al-Bukhari (Muhammad Muhsin Khan) has changed the word "Mut'a" to "Hajj-at-Tamatu". This is why in the Arabic text of the hadith of al-Bukhari which is beside the English text, the word "Mut'a" has been used ALONE.  "The man intended in the above narration is the caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab" ~Fat'h al-Bari fi sharh Sahih al-Bukhari by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, vol. 4 p. 177 4. Sahih al-Tirmidhi, vol. 1 p. 157; Tafsir al-Qurtubi, vol. 2 p. 365 revealed: "Someone asked Abdullah Ibn Umar about Mut'a (of Hajj), he said: It is permitted (halal). So he was asked: Your father forbade it. He said: Do you think that my father can forbade what the prophet did? Should I follow what my father said, or should I follow what the prophet ordered? The man said: Of course the orders of the prophet." "When a man from Syria asked Abdullah ibn Umar about the Mut'a of women, he said: it is Halal. The man said: Your father had made it forbidden! Ibn Umar said: Do you think that if my father was forbidding it and the Messenger of Allah used to (allow) its practice, then you should leave the Sunnah and follow what my father said?" ~Sahih al-Tirmidhi as above. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 1:25am On Oct 18, 2014 |
lanrexlan: No not only during war. On the authority of Ismail with the same chain of transmitter as 'the hadith of permissibility during war': "We were young so we said: 'O Allah's Apostle! Should we not have ourselves castrated?" The narrator did not say we were on an expedition. ~Sahih Muslim, English version, vol. 2 chap.DXLI, (Titled: Temporary marriage), Tradition #3245. ~~Sahih Muslim, Arabic version 1980 Edition pub in Saudi Arabia, vol.2 p.1022, hadith #12, "kitab al-Nikah, Bab Nikah al-Mut'a. Apart from this, after the demise of the prophet, NO WAR, NO EXPEDITION when Ibn Abbas, Ibn Umar, Ibn Mas'ud, Jabir Ibn Abdullah, Imran ibn Hussain et al, sanctioned and maintained Mut'a is permitted as indicated in several mentioned hadith. lanrexlan: Where does Ibn Abbas clarified himself @underlined? You can even appreciate how absolutely sure Ibn Abbas was @bold^saying "By my life..." Note, I separated the above narration^ as two clear different incidents were joined together. The one above was between Abdullah ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair. Here are other interesting and detailed versions of the same incidents between Ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair: "Muslim al-Qurri said: I asked Ibn Abbas about Mut'a and he permitted it, whereas Ibn Zubair had forbidden it. So Ibn Abbas said: "This is the mother of Ibn Zubair who states that Allah's messenger had permitted it, so you better go to her and ask her about it. He (Muslim al-Qurri) said: So we went to her and she was a bulky blind lady. She said: Verily Allah's Messenger permitted it." ~~Sahih Muslim, Arabic version 1980 Edition pub in Saudi Arabia, vol.2 p.909, hadith #194-195. NB: In tradition #195, the sub-narrator said: "The narrator used the word 'Mut'a' alone, and I do not know if it was Mut'a of Hajj or Mut'a of women". It is crystal clear that what Ibn Zubair used to forbade was Mut'a of women as it is clear from other hadith. Interestingly, Ibn Zubair kept on insulting Ibn Abbas by saying his heart is blind simply because he believed in the validity of Mut'a. Ibn Zubair forgot he himself was born out of Mut'a! (Sahih Muslim vol. 1 p.354; al-Iqd al-Fareed vol.2 p.139). In fact, according to Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid vol. 4 p. 489 - 490, Ibn Abbas said: "O Ibn Zubair! As for the blindness, verily Allah said in Quran that: 'For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind.'(Q.22:46) 'And as for my religious verdicts, there are reasons behind them that neither you nor your companions comprehend them....As for mut'a, you better ask your mother Asma'!... When Ibn Zubair came back to his mother and ask her about mut'a, she replied: Did I not warn you from facing Ibn Abbas and facing Bani Hashim (the clan of the prophet), because they have answer for everything. O my son! Avoid this blind man for neither human nor unseen creatures (Jinn) can corner him." ************************* Then Here's the other narration joined together with the previous hadith of Ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair as you quoted: lanrexlan: This has nothing to do with Ibn Abbas and Ibn Zubair. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 1:49am On Oct 18, 2014 |
As per Umar declaring Mut'a to be Harram! Your defense: lanrexlan: Ma sha Allah! @underlined words. Had it been the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) rely and truly addressed people at the conquest of Makkah as claimed by Ibn Sabra al-Juhanni, why were people continue with the practice of Mut'a long after the demise of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) as indicated in the above statement of yours so much so that Umar finally "declared and taught it to be haram" and threaten to stone whoever practice mut'a? Were these people disobeying the "order of their prophet"? No doubt Umar, Ibn Abbas, Abdullah ibn Umar, Ibn Mas'ud, Imran ibn hussain, jabir ibn Abdullah et al were all present at the conquest of Makkah. Why was any of them EVER made mention of the prohibition on the day Makkah was conquered? Dear lanrexlan, Here's one version of your statement, the narration goes like this: "Urwah ibn Zubair narrated that khulah bint Hakim came to Umar Ibn al-Khattab and said: Rabi'ah Ibn Umayyah practiced Mut'a with a woman and the woman has become pregnant from him. Umar became angry and said: "About this Mut'a, had I done (the ban) sooner than this, I would have stoned him." ~al-Muwatta, Imam Malik ibn Anas, vol. 2 p.30 On the topic of Mut'a; Sunan al-Kubra, al-Bayhaqi vol.7 p. 206 This is yet a clear indication that prophet did not forbade Mut'a but Umar does. Just like in the word of his son, Abdullah, are we to follow Umar or the Sunnah of the prophet? ******************************* As per abusing the practice thereby Umar thought it wise to forbid it, should we forbid Multiple marriage because of the fact that people have abused the practice esp in this society? Muslim's home with Multiple marriage is worse. No care for wives or children, in fact, each wife fend for their respective survival with children. Just like a verse was revealed for multiple marriage which legalized it, also a verse was revealed for mut'a for its legislation thereby nobody not even prophet (peace be on him and his progeny) can rule against the verse except Allah Himself reveal another verse to abrogate it. Whoever abuse a practice will face the punishment alone with Allah. That is not the yardstick to make what Allah allowed as forbidden. "It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error." ~al-Ahzab:36 lanrexlan: Beautiful ayah but I honestly don't understand why you quote it. Elaborate please. Thanks for your time. Wa salam alaykum. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by AlBaqir(m): 2:46am On Oct 18, 2014 |
Empiree: Sura al-Ahzab: 52 ONLY addressed the holy prophet (peace be on him and his progeny). Note 3754 of Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes: This was revealed in A.H 7. After that the prophet did not marry again, except the handsmaiden Mary the copt... NB: lanrexlan also quoted this same verse in the course of his dialogue with me. I don't know why but I think the explanation here ^will suffice in sha Allah. Sura Mu'minun: 6, though sura Mu'minun was revealed in Makkah while Nisa:24 was revealed in Madina thereby according to the rule of abrogation, a previous sura or verse cannot abrogate a new sura or verse. However, the content talked about 2 types of wedlock (normal marriage and marriage with slave whom your right hand possess) which interestingly sura Nisa also elaborate. Then verse 24 then legalize another type "istamtatum". Note, in the case of the first two, there is inheritance but in the case of mut'a, there is none. Sorry this part has to do with hadith. And no doubt, mut'a is for certain circumstances. And forget about the fact that people abuse it. Multiple marriage too has been abused in the name of "sunnah". And lastly, permanent marriage is the best out of all those marriages. As practicable as Islam is, it define and legislate its law to accommodate people of various class and character. Wa salam alaykum. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by Empiree: 5:14am On Oct 18, 2014 |
^^^ Okay, shukran. I am still waiting for the those in support of "misyar marriage" to respond before i state my opinion on this issue. I will wait for them for one more day inshallah. |
| Re: They Wont Stop Opposing A Sunnah (mut'ah) But Prefer A Bid'ah (misyar) by MrOlai: 3:50pm On Oct 18, 2014 |
@Albaqir. Pls, I want to know. Like how many females have you had mut'a with in your life and why? No offence pls. |
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