Bobbysworld28:


So they believed in god/gods(theism) b4 rejecting them (atheism).

Warped theistic logic.

(i) table/tables were presented to men in the past.
(ii) they rejected the table/tables.

According to Bobbysworld28's logic, they accepted the table/tables(tableism) b4 rejecting them (Atableism).

finofaya:
This OP is rather pointless.

The OP says christians are accused of wishful thinking.



He then goes on to confirm that this accusation is true.



Does this paragraph mean anything other than that we should accept Christ because compared to "the unsparing backdrop of consistent materialism", it is more comfortable to do so? The entire argument is that atheism is too harsh and Christianity is softer. That is not a good argument. With his kind of reasoning, if we can find another God that guarantees an afterlife and deals with wrongdoers in a milder way than Yahweh, then we all should flock to that God. Buddhism, anyone?

according to Google, your email doesn't exist. send me another abeg

how does one find true glamour accepting the fact that nothing in the world was created by God?

qstar:


Warped theistic logic.

(i) table/tables were presented to men in the past.
(ii) they rejected the table/tables.

According to Bobbysworld28's logic, they accepted the table/tables(tableism) b4 rejecting them (Atableism).

I even started to believe maybe he might be mentally challenged to not understand something that simple.....including asalimpo who believed 150 year old theory of evolution started atheism

davien:
I even started to believe maybe he might be mentally challenged to not understand something that simple.....including asalimpo who believed 150 year old theory of evolution started atheism

atheism srtted with the progression of the scientifc movement, specifically after darwin published his work on the origin of the species.
Even,in tht era religion and science were closely intertwined.
That's y atheism has it greatest adherents among intellectuals.

I don't know wat u mean by atheism pre dating Christianity!

davien:
I even started to believe maybe he might be mentally challenged to not understand something that simple.....including asalimpo who believed 150 year old theory of evolution started atheism

Any neutral reading this will easily knw who has the mental challenge. Since for u it possible for one to reject a notion before becoming aware of the existence of the subject (and subsequently having the opportunity of choice), then I have nothing more to say to you.
Have a nice day sir!

qstar:


Warped theistic logic.

(i) table/tables were presented to men in the past.
(ii) they rejected the table/tables.

According to Bobbysworld28's logic, they accepted the table/tables(tableism) b4 rejecting them (Atableism).

Ahhhh! Even this little logic is way above ur intellect. It is well, sha!

Bobbysworld28:


Morality and laws are man-made and anchored on the acknowledgement of a higher power for enforcement. U acknowledge government of the physical laws but ascribe ur consciousness to 'nothing'. Quite remarkable! The law of gravity then was propounded by ur forefathers, I guess.

I don't know how consciousness came about. you are the one ascribing it to the ideas of ancient people and their superstitions. . .The law of gravity is coined by humans. . .In nature is really isn't a law because it doesn't follow any define principle and doesn't apply equally in all parts of the universe. . .

mazaje:


I don't know how consciousness came about. you are the one ascribing it to the ideas of ancient people and their superstitions. . .The law of gravity is coined by humans. . .In nature is really isn't a law because it doesn't follow any define principle and doesn't apply equally in all parts of the universe. . .

Gravity was coined by humans? No humans are only trying to understand and manipulate it. Numerous other laws abound in nature that humans are trying to understand and use to their benefit. I used gravity to buttress the fact that there are other laws apart from govt ones when some ppl were trying to define their rationality based in govt laws.
In the scope of this banter I have tried to understand the concept of rationality as prosposed by atheists. I am still unable to see any useful post alluding to that. Maybe u can help.

Bobbysworld28:

Gravity was coined by humans? No humans are only trying to understand and manipulate it. Numerous other laws abound in nature that humans are trying to understand and use to their benefit. I used gravity to buttress the fact that there are other laws apart from govt ones when some ppl were trying to define their rationality based in govt laws.
In the scope of this banter I have tried to understand the concept of rationality as prosposed by atheists. I am still unable to see any useful post alluding to that. Maybe u can help.

Gravity exist in nature as a mindless force. . .It doesn't obey any law per say since it doesn't even act the same way in all parts of the universe where it exist. . .What do you mean by atheist rationality?. . .

mazaje:


Gravity exist in nature as a mindless force. . .It doesn't obey any law per say since it doesn't even act the same way in all parts of the universe where it exist. . .What do you mean by atheist rationality?. . .

Gravity is not mindless, sorry! There are rules.
My questions have always been this: if atheism is a lack of belief in God/god/gods, what does atheism believe in?
Since, atheists claim we came from nothing and end is the end of everything, how do u derive purpose in life?
What are the atheistic code of conduct in life?
If u believe in rational thought, how do u account for difference in views regarding what is rational? For instance, when we have differences in what we view as rational, how do we know the most appropriate?

My view is this: to make a sense of morality and rationality we must have a single entity which is transcendent and from which we derive meaning. In philosophy that fixed entity is regarded as an absolute!
If God is the absolute good and I derive morality from him, knowing that I am accountable to him, my actions are modified on a regular basis to conform with his personality expressed in and thru me. Even if I veer off and pursue selfish gains to the detriment of my fellows, it is good that we have a moral compass so that I can re-align.

Bobbysworld28:


Gravity is not mindless, sorry! There are rules.
My questions have always been this: if atheism is a lack of belief in God/god/gods, what does atheism believe in?
Since, atheists claim we came from nothing and end is the end of everything, how do u derive purpose in life?
What are the atheistic code of conduct in life?
If u believe in rational thought, how do u account for difference in views regarding what is rational? For instance, when we have differences in what we view as rational, how do we know the most appropriate?

is it accurate to say Gravity has rules, rather than a behaviour? Don't rules suggest obedience from individuals?

Atheism does not claim the world erupted from nothingness. It is merely denying the existence of Gods and the supernatural even though both are said to be responsible for existence.

My view is this: to make a sense of morality and rationality we must have a single entity which is transcendent and from which we derive meaning. In philosophy that fixed entity is regarded as an absolute!
If God is the absolute good and I derive morality from him, knowing that I am accountable to him, my actions are modified on a regular basis to conform with his personality expressed in and thru me. Even if I veer off and pursue selfish gains to the detriment of my fellows, it is good that we have a moral compass so that I can re-align.

What is the purpose of morality to you?

Kay17:
is it accurate to say Gravity has rules, rather than a behaviour? Don't rules suggest obedience from individuals?

Atheism does not claim the world erupted from nothingness. It is merely denying the existence of Gods and the supernatural even though both are said to be responsible for existence.



What is the purpose of morality to you?

Rules would imply patterns, trends and behaviour. If u studied gravity, wouldn't u see these?

If Atheists do not believe that the world erupts from nothing, WHAT DO ATHEISTS BELIEVE?

The purpose of morality to me is for it to guide my actions since it defines my value code. It moral to love you inspite of our differences and this guides me.

Bobbysworld28:

Rules would imply patterns, trends and behaviour. If u studied gravity, wouldn't u see these?
If Atheists do not believe that the world erupts from nothing, WHAT DO ATHEISTS BELIEVE?
The purpose of morality to me is for it to guide my actions since it defines my value code. It moral to love you inspite of our differences and this guides me.

Then you have to be careful with your language in order to avoid confusion. By rules, you clearly mean a pattern/behaviour/trends/orderly and not normative rules humans are regularly inundated with. It is easier to appreciate gravity in that sense.

Now, "what do atheists believe?" I can only speak for myself even though it is a common position I share with other people; the Truth is more elusive than is usually thought, it can not be taken for granted. I think Falsehood and Truth are necessarily incompatible. Once the Falsehood of a position is shown, it is impossible for it to be true. All supernatural claims are false because they are impossible to authenticate and ascertain. They have an epistemological dilemma, for this reason, they should be swept away. Now that there are no supernatural claims, we have a clean slate and an open mind to discover the world for what it truly is.

Good, you are obviously aware of your values and your morality suitably fits them, doesn't that suppose you can create your own morality if a universal morality does not fit your values?

Bobbysworld28:


Gravity is not mindless, sorry! There are rules.

Gravity follows rules that are more or less random. . .

My questions have always been this: if atheism is a lack of belief in God/god/gods, what does atheism believe in?

That gods do not exist. . .My personal belief is that all gods and religions are man made. . .No religion has any divine origin, all are man made constructs. . .Men created all the gods and formed all the religions that is why you can not point to any god on its own that is independent of man made inputs, men have to write the stories about all the gods, create systems about all the gods, speak on behalf of all the gods, build their places of worship, fight for them, tell each other about them, do their bidding for them because gods are all man made construct. . .No god exist on its own independent of men, when men decide to stop believing in what ever concept of god, such gods die away. . .Amun Ra used to be the one and only god during the times of the ancient Egyptians now that god idea is dead since no one believes in it any more, same applies to some of our African traditional gods a lot of them have died away because no one believes in them any more back in the days they were powerful, people used to "encounter and experience" them. The bottom line is that god is a man made idea, construct and conception. . .

Since, atheists claim we came from nothing and end is the end of everything, how do u derive purpose in life?

The purpose of life IMO is to strive to fill each of the days we have to spend here on earth (hours, and minutes) with meaning. We should strive to fill them with learning and gaining wisdom, with compassion for the less fortunate, with love and tolerance for friends, strangers and family, with doing any job we want to do or are supposed to do very well, with fighting against evil and obscurantism, to protect our planet and all the other animals that we share it together with and YES, with enjoying sexxxx, movies, music, dancing, entertainment, good food, arts, sports, parties, tourism, animals, cars, luxury, and other fascinating stuffs that life has to offer. . .These things don't last for ever but we still get pleasure and fulfilment from them. . .

One thing that if find absurd with the theistic argument is that life has to be everlasting for it to be meaningful . . .Why should life have to be everlasting to be meaningful? It smacks of monumental egotism. Surely there is something monstrously egocentric in thinking that my life is of such transcendent significance that I should be an exception to cosmic laws, that my ego should survive when, animals, planets, stars, and even galaxies are no more.I know the usual bribery that religions have to offer of life after death if you follow their particular version of stories. . .Life doesn't have to be ever lasting for it to be meaningful. . . According to scientist Over 90 percent of all species that have ever lived are now no more, if that is true then we can conclude that nature is wasteful, things come and go, that is how nature is. . . .Death is inevitable. . .I know the need for people to want to live for ever but there is no evidence to show that humans have souls that survive bodily death.

What are the atheistic code of conduct in life?

There are no atheistic code of conduct there are just human codes of conduct, and morality today should be based on reason, scientific and rational ideas, not based the ideas of primitive men that lived in times when it was OK to stone your disobedient children to death or sell of your daughters into slavery. . .

If u believe in rational thought, how do u account for difference in views regarding what is rational? For instance, when we have differences in what we view as rational, how do we know the most appropriate?

Because all are humans constructs and humans hold varying views on issues. .

My view is this: to make a sense of morality and rationality we must have a single entity which is transcendent and from which we derive meaning. In philosophy that fixed entity is regarded as an absolute!

That is not true because look at the christian world today, many christians disagree with each other on what moral laws to uphold despite believeing in one god. . .Muslims as well and the two religions both disagree with each other on what should be morally right or wrong. . .Morallity is and will always be a man made construct. . .Reason should be the guiding principle. . . .What is the meaning of life according to your god?. . .What is the purpose of life?. . .By the way ,many people are polytheist but still believe their morality comes from their many gods. . .Your assertion here is highly flawed. . .

If God is the absolute good and I derive morality from him, knowing that I am accountable to him, my actions are modified on a regular basis to conform with his personality expressed in and thru me. Even if I veer off and pursue selfish gains to the detriment of my fellows, it is good that we have a moral compass so that I can re-align.

The god of the bible is not absolutely good and our morality can be shown not to come from him. . .The bottom line is our morality has always come from us humans, for example you derive yours from ancient people that wrote down moral codes and used a god idea they invented as an enforcing mechanism. . .

Christianity is an irrational fear of death cloaked in faux courage. They claim to be the religion of life, yet they eschew life in favor of death. They convince themselves that life begins after death despite a lack of evidence, then they call people who embrace life, the lovers of death.
They are the cult of death because their "hope" revolves around death, their fear of death and the fantastic story of the jew who "conquered death".

Now to the "good news", HBO will be a subscription service like Netflix starting in January, 2015!!! Yipppppeeeeeeeee

If atheism is true .... what is the point of life ?

If atheism is true ... why hasn't man discovered his purpose in life for millions and millions of years ?

If atheism is true ... As regards to my life , I nearly died seeking after the works of physicians , from one doctor in Abia state to another ... who did I not go to ... the look on my mum's face as the doctor gives his usual report of we didn't find anything , It could be ... *sigh*

and just a simple prayer saved me from torture I had for close to 4 months. Undiagnosed stomach ache that kept me crying and in indescribable pain when I was young

Just a simple prayer...

11 years ago till now and the future .. Il forever remain grateful. .

My God does not work with logic and mere intelligence of man ...

Il be the greatest fool on earth if I deny the existence of
God

Thank You Jesus

KingEbukasBlog:
If atheism is true ... As regards to my life , I nearly died seeking after the works of physicians , from one doctor in Abia state to another ... who did I not go to ... the look on my mum's face as the doctor gives his usual report of we didn't find anything , It could be ... *sigh*

and just a simple prayer saved me from torture I had for close to 4 months. Undiagnosed stomach ache that kept me crying and in indescribable pain when I was young

Just a simple prayer...

11 years ago till now and the future .. Il forever remain grateful. .

My God does not work with logic and mere intelligence of man ...

Il be the greatest fool on earth if I deny the existence of
God

Thank You Jesus

Prayers don't build bridges or universes, nor do they solve real problems. The world's problems are not solved by helpless prayers but actions. And who is this vague God of yours??

Kay17:


Then you have to be careful with your language in order to avoid confusion. By rules, you clearly mean a pattern/behaviour/trends/orderly and not normative rules humans are regularly inundated with. It is easier to appreciate gravity in that sense.

Now, "what do atheists believe?" I can only speak for myself even though it is a common position I share with other people; the Truth is more elusive than is usually thought, it can not be taken for granted. I think Falsehood and Truth are necessarily incompatible. Once the Falsehood of a position is shown, it is impossible for it to be true. All supernatural claims are false because they are impossible to authenticate and ascertain. They have an epistemological dilemma, for this reason, they should be swept away. Now that there are no supernatural claims, we have a clean slate and an open mind to discover the world for what it truly is.

Good, you are obviously aware of your values and your morality suitably fits them, doesn't that suppose you can create your own morality if a universal morality does not fit your values?

All supernatural claims are false? I thought it was the religious folks who were so utterly dismissive! Let us take a look at science for instance, what u consider plausible today would have been described as madness a couple of centuries ago in the scientific world. Einstein postulated abt black holes and u all agreed without any physical evidence. U see the issue with the atheistic world view? Very materialistic! Meanwhile u conveniently forget that life is beyond what ur physical senses can define.
If we take what u have said as truth and empirical evidence comes up tomorrow, wouldnt u shift ground? Dismissing the supernatural as mere fairytales is incredible coming from you.

Even if u create ur morality and it is unsustainable in the universal morality code, r u not aware that a backlash will ensue? If one can create his own morality independent of the harmonious, what stops another from doing the same. In the end, chaos ensues. That is what atheism teaches!

KingEbukasBlog:
If atheism is true .... what is the point of life ?

Does christianity have an answer to that?

Martian:
Christianity is an irrational fear of death cloaked in faux courage. They claim to be the religion of life, yet they eschew life in favor of death. They convince themselves that life begins after death despite a lack of evidence, then they call people who embrace life, the lovers of death.
They are the cult of death because their "hope" revolves around death, their fear of death and the fantastic story of the jew who "conquered death".

Now to the "good news", HBO will be a subscription service like Netflix starting in January, 2015!!! Yipppppeeeeeeeee

And ur alternative is......
.... yeah! atheism!!!! We come from nothing, headed towards nothing, ur rules are human rules which change with the whims and caprices of time. Like a rudderless ship drifting aimlessly towards nowhere.
I will grant u one thing: religion has been bastardized! Agreed! But a cursory look will show that man's interpretation of divinity is at fault and not divinity and its concept. The focal point of existence has remained the same in a fickle world and only a retooling of the mind towards the grand scheme of things will enable u come to terms with what absolute truth is.

Bobbysworld28:


1. All supernatural claims are false? I thought it was the religious folks who were so utterly dismissive! Let us take a look at science for instance, what u consider plausible today would have been described as madness a couple of centuries ago in the scientific world. Einstein postulated abt black holes and u all agreed without any physical evidence. U see the issue with the atheistic world view? Very materialistic! Meanwhile u conveniently forget that life is beyond what ur physical senses can define.
If we take what u have said as truth and empirical evidence comes up tomorrow, wouldnt u shift ground? Dismissing the supernatural as mere fairytales is incredible coming from you.

2. Even if u create ur morality and it is unsustainable in the universal morality code, r u not aware that a backlash will ensue? If one can create his own morality independent of the harmonious, what stops another from doing the same. In the end, chaos ensues. That is what atheism teaches!

1. Note my post carefully. Supernatural claims are false for the reason that the claimants have no means of substantiating the claim. The supernatural is said to be beyond our senses and our rationality. So even if we see a supernatural phenomenon, we wouldn't grasp it. You have to be very carefully with your language, because what you mean by 'very materialistic' is vague in relation to what black holes are. So pls try not to misunderstand me.

2. And what if the universal code doesn't fit your values? would you still adopt it?

Kay17:


1. Note my post carefully. Supernatural claims are false for the reason that the claimants have no means of substantiating the claim. The supernatural is said to be beyond our senses and our rationality. So even if we see a supernatural phenomenon, we wouldn't grasp it. You have to be very carefully with your language, because what you mean by 'very materialistic' is vague in relation to what black holes are. So pls try not to misunderstand me.

2. And what if the universal code doesn't fit your values? would you still adopt it?

1. Materialistic as in belief totally in the material world. Meaning if u cannot touch, see or smell it, it does not exist! Hw can u prove atoms exist if we go by ur theory?

2. U adapt to it. U cannot even go against physical codes without reoercussions much more univerasal ones. So if traffic laws dont fit into ur lifestyle, do abandon urself to recklessness? Consequences, bro, consequences!

Bobbysworld28:



1. Materialistic as in belief totally in the material world. Meaning if u cannot touch, see or smell it, it does not exist! Hw can u prove atoms exist if we go by ur theory?

2. U adapt to it. U cannot even go against physical codes without reoercussions much more univerasal ones. So if traffic laws dont fit into ur lifestyle, do abandon urself to recklessness? Consequences, bro, consequences!

1. But to a physicist, the atoms are the concretes of the 'material world'. The physicist in turn is often regarded as the penultimate materialist, even though the world he investigates is way beyond his immediate senses. I find that to the contrary of what you trying to say

2. but your values define you. Your values cannot be compromised, to adopt it to a universal code is to compromise it. for example, you wouldn't follow unjust laws, right?

Bobbysworld28:


Gravity is not mindless, sorry! There are rules.
My questions have always been this: if atheism is a lack of belief in God/god/gods, what does atheism believe in?
Since, atheists claim we came from nothing and end is the end of everything, how do u derive purpose in life?
What are the atheistic code of conduct in life?
If u believe in rational thought, how do u account for difference in views regarding what is rational? For instance, when we have differences in what we view as rational, how do we know the most appropriate?

My view is this: to make a sense of morality and rationality we must have a single entity which is transcendent and from which we derive meaning. In philosophy that fixed entity is regarded as an absolute!
If God is the absolute good and I derive morality from him, knowing that I am accountable to him, my actions are modified on a regular basis to conform with his personality expressed in and thru me. Even if I veer off and pursue selfish gains to the detriment of my fellows, it is good that we have a moral compass so that I can re-align.

that's right. Immateriality cannot explain at all, man's sense of morality.
A sense tht doesnt need education, is universal and generally similar.
Y don't other creatures hav it?
To decide something is good or evil, there should b an external and universally recognised standard of wat constitutes good/evil. Most times people assume others accept this standard most times this assumption holds tru.
Question then is, how were these universal standards of morality developed.

asalimpo:

that's right. Immateriality cannot explain at all, man's sense of morality.
A sense tht doesnt need education, is universal and generally similar.
Y don't other creatures hav it?
To decide something is good or evil, there should b an external and universally recognised standard of wat constitutes good/evil. Most times people assume others accept this standard most times this assumption holds tru.
Question then is, how were these universal standards of morality developed.

A simple breakdown of morality shows that it is a set of rules on living, right?

KingEbukasBlog:
If atheism is true ...

Who's clamouring for truth here? Atheism is reality

Kay17:


1. But to a physicist, the atoms are the concretes of the 'material world'. The physicist in turn is often regarded as the penultimate materialist, even though the world he investigates is way beyond his immediate senses. I find that to the contrary of what you trying to say

2. but your values define you. Your values cannot be compromised, to adopt it to a universal code is to compromise it. for example, you wouldn't follow unjust laws, right?

1. It is not contrary, ur worldview will seek to nulify the physicists standard point. Who refers to them as the ultimate materialists? Atheists? If u accept the world of the physicist which for the most part is theoretical, do u still affirm that all 'supernatural' is false? Are u not infact affirming that there are things dt go beyond the 'natural'?

2. Thanks for this. Hw do u then define unjust laws? Unjust for one man could mean just for another. By what standard (that unchanged absolute dt I have been talking about), do you come to the conclusion thay one is unjust while the other is just? It simply cannot be man who has made several u-turns throughout history and created problems along the way?
What is this absolute for u? The point of reference from which we can settle this dispute.

qstar:


Who's clamouring for truth here? Atheism is reality

Truth by its very nature should be reality! It should not changed from place to place or person to person.
Atheism is not even able to prescribed a methodology by which we can try to come to terms with it and u r grappling for reality.
All systems have laws. Take a cursory look at the solar system, there is code and a beauty of design. For atheism to attempt to be reality it must at least bear semblance with reality. What is the atheist code of conduct?

Bobbysworld28:


Truth by its very nature should be reality! It should not changed from place to place or person to person.
Atheism is not even able to prescribed a methodology by which we can try to come to terms with it and u r grappling for reality.
All systems have laws. Take a cursory look at the solar system, there is code and a beauty of design. For atheism to attempt to be reality it must at least bear semblance with reality. What is the atheist code of conduct?

Guy, please learn how to make a concise and clear argument.


You have just twisted things and made no sense at all. Does methodology or having laws now equal truth?

Atheism is simply the disbelief in god. Morality, laws, rules etc are another issue entirely.



Atheism is not a religion and doesnt need a theology or methodology.

It is a simple truth based on the fact that there is no single evidence for any god and all gods so far have been self-contradictory