OdenigboAroli:


So,you actually believe yourself?
I dont understand why people need to lie to themselves....Aro,Onitsha and many major town brought gift to greet the Eze Nri during coronation. Eze Nri Obalike revealed this himself.

In the book,Religion,dreaming and society in Africa by M. M Charles Jedrej and Rosalind Shaw it revealed how these major towns brought gifts to Agukwu

Rodoillo,I need elephant tusk...Can you go hunting and bring me one like your forefathers use to do for Nri?

OdenigboAroli:


Alangwa and Awka boy must pay homage to Nri decendants,or Udo will keep haunting them...lol

Radoillo:


Bwahahaha! First off, Obalike never revealed that anybody from the towns you've mentioned (Aro or Onitsha) brought him gifts during his coronation. Onitsha might have (Arochukwu certainly not), but it is not on record that Obalike ever said so. I’ll even help you make your case by quoting the exact information Eze Nri Obalike gave Northcote Thomas in circa 1910. Note he said nothing about anybody bringing gifts. He only mentioned 'settling disputes' (which Thomas saw no evidence of), and made vague questionable statements about people (including the Bini) 'acknowledging' him - whatever that means.

“The Ezenri claimed that he had to settle disputes in the
territory that acknowledged him, i.e., as far as Amansi in
the east, Agoleri in the north, Umucuku in the south.
How far precisely he is recognized in the west I did not
ascertain. He mentioned among the towns subject to him,
Asaba, Isele, Agbor, and the land as far as Idu (Benin city),
but I have no evidence that Nri men go nearly so far west.
So far as I could see no disputes were referred to him at all….”

I’m assuming that you’ve seen this quote before, and that you thought ‘Umucuku’ was a reference to Arochukwu. Wrong. In the northern axis, Umuchukwu was (until about 1908) the official name of the town now called Aro-Ndikelionwu in Orumba area of Anambra state. In colonial records of the early period, ‘Umuchukwu’ appears as the actual name of Ndikelionwu. Ndikelionwu people occasionally still use the name. [Although fairly recently another town in that area has officially changed its name to Umuchukwu.]

What Eze Nri Obalike was actually saying there was that Ndikelionwu (not Arochukwu) was among the towns which acknowledged him and in which he settled disputes. Like all rulers Eze Nri exaggerated the extent of his authority. (Imagine saying Benin recognized his authority!) We have evidence (even evidence from traditions collected by Onwuejeogwu within Agukwu itself) that the Aro colonies, including Ndikelionwu, were completely irreverent to the authority of the Eze Nri. I’ve already mentioned the incident between Okoli Ijoma and Ezenri Enweleana. There are more examples of such show of non-recognition of Ezenri’s authority. The Aro-Ndikelionwu overwhelmed Nawfia (an Umu-Nri town) and used their road network to attack the Awka area in the 19th century. Aro-hired soldiers attacked Enugu-Ukwu, another Umu-Nri town, although they were successfully repulsed. Aro-hired soldiers attacked Nteje, an Umu-Eri town in 1891 and they fled to their kinsmen in Asaba. These are not the actions of a people that had any regard for Eze Nri’s authority. You can see some of the traditions mentioned here in Onwuejeogwu’s Nri Kingdom and Hegemony, Dike and Ekejiuba’s The Aro: a case study of state formation in southeastern Nigeria. There’s even an eyewitness account of the aftermath of the attack on Nteje in Isichei’s The Igbo Worlds.

I wouldn’t take an Eze Nri who says Benin was subject to him in the early 20th century seriously if I were you. Apparently every people that came into some sort of contact with his ritual agents were interpreted by him as being ‘subject to him.’ Note what Northcote said, “So far as I could see, no disputes were referred to him at all….”

You are doing a good job. Come back when you’ve found something better than Obalike’s self-aggrandizing words (which in any case made no reference to Arochukwu or many major towns in Igboland.)


.

Jedrej and Shaw never set foot in Igboland. Why would you think they would have anything ‘revealing’ to contribute here, beyond making the same mistakes people like Ehret made, sitting in their studies in US and Britain, and writing about something they knew so little about? In any case, can you quote Jedrej and Shaw’s actual words?

Perhaps its time to even place Nri in its right context in Igbo cultural history. Starting with the true nature of their relations with the Adama. And I may do so here on this thread.



I don’t know about elephant tusks. We did make the otonsi for Nri priests, the supreme paraphernalia of their ‘priesthood’. We never made one for Umuoji, though…because they were never ritual agents or representatives of the hegemony. Only the ‘Brahmin’ Nri families in Agukwu-Nri, Oraeri, and the Urunebo quarters of Enugu-Ukwu formed the hieratic elite that defined Nri’s hegemony.

Why is an Umuoji man carrying Nri matter on his head to the extent of having an ‘NriPriest’ moniker? No Umuoji man was ever an Nri Priest. Your Nriness is just as trivial as the Nriness of an Ogboli-Ibusa man, or an Aku (Nsukka) man

OdenigboAroli:
Alangwa and Awka boy must pay homage to Nri decendants,or Udo will keep haunting them...lol

ChinenyeN:


Ochi wei! Nri wouldn't even be able to break kola in Urata, not to talk of journeying to Ngwa to plead for homage.

modhream:

You made a lot of points here,but I will like u to know that acknowledging or recognizing someone doesn't necessarily mean being subject to the person's authority.Benin might have acknowledged Nri,exchanged embassies with them(not saying it happened),that doesn't mean one was subject to the other.
Just saying.

OdenigboAroli:
Rodoillo,why are you so disrespectful to an institution that civilized your primitive Awka people??
You run around looking for old works did by researchers and go ahead to alter them to suit your insecure aa..ss. Why are you so pained?? Why are you so insecure and hateful of the ones God has blessed?? Why cant you just assume your place and show some respect to Nri blood like me? That wont kill you,rather more blessings will come your way...Do you know Nze na Ozo can be taken away from Awka people?? Be careful before you bring curse to your generation. Saying Obalike is a liar is very dangerous!

OdenigboAroli:
I will like to find out why Arochukwu stopped bringing gifts and paying homages to EZE NRI,like they use to. All the proud Aro sons should come here and explain this to me.
Not just Aro but all the other major towns in Igboland. To me this is a complete disobedience to a sacred institution.

OdenigboAroli:


Nwoke,easy....If Aro your superiors paid homaged to Eze Nri,what becomes of Ngwa....lol

By the way,when are you gonna release a book about egwu mgbede in Ngwa...We talking about cultures that shaped the Igbo society nigga talking about egwu mgbede of the young maidens...Alangwa nyuu ka oku npanaka!

OdenigboAroli:


Nwoke,easy....If Aro your superiors paid homaged to Eze Nri,what becomes of Ngwa....lol

By the way,when are you gonna release a book about egwu mgbede in Ngwa...We talking about cultures that shaped the Igbo society nigga talking about egwu mgbede of the young maidens...Alangwa nyuu ka oku npanaka!

Radoillo:


Bwahahaha! First off, Obalike never revealed that anybody from the towns you've mentioned (Aro or Onitsha) brought him gifts during his coronation. Onitsha might have (Arochukwu certainly not), but it is not on record that Obalike ever said so. I’ll even help you make your case by quoting the exact information Eze Nri Obalike gave Northcote Thomas in circa 1910. Note he said nothing about anybody bringing gifts. He only mentioned 'settling disputes' (which Thomas saw no evidence of), and made vague questionable statements about people (including the Bini) 'acknowledging' him - whatever that means.

“The Ezenri claimed that he had to settle disputes in the
territory that acknowledged him, i.e., as far as Amansi in
the east, Agoleri in the north, Umucuku in the south.
How far precisely he is recognized in the west I did not
ascertain. He mentioned among the towns subject to him,
Asaba, Isele, Agbor, and the land as far as Idu (Benin city),
but I have no evidence that Nri men go nearly so far west.
So far as I could see no disputes were referred to him at all….”

I’m assuming that you’ve seen this quote before, and that you thought ‘Umucuku’ was a reference to Arochukwu. Wrong. In the northern axis, Umuchukwu was (until about 1908) the official name of the town now called Aro-Ndikelionwu in Orumba area of Anambra state. In colonial records of the early period, ‘Umuchukwu’ appears as the actual name of Ndikelionwu. Ndikelionwu people occasionally still use the name. [Although fairly recently another town in that area has officially changed its name to Umuchukwu.]

What Eze Nri Obalike was actually saying there was that Ndikelionwu (not Arochukwu) was among the towns which acknowledged him and in which he settled disputes. Like all rulers Eze Nri exaggerated the extent of his authority. (Imagine saying Benin recognized his authority!) We have evidence (even evidence from traditions collected by Onwuejeogwu within Agukwu itself) that the Aro colonies, including Ndikelionwu, were completely irreverent to the authority of the Eze Nri. I’ve already mentioned the incident between Okoli Ijoma and Ezenri Enweleana. There are more examples of such show of non-recognition of Ezenri’s authority. The Aro-Ndikelionwu overwhelmed Nawfia (an Umu-Nri town) and used their road network to attack the Awka area in the 19th century. Aro-hired soldiers attacked Enugu-Ukwu, another Umu-Nri town, although they were successfully repulsed. Aro-hired soldiers attacked Nteje, an Umu-Eri town in 1891 and they fled to their kinsmen in Asaba. These are not the actions of a people that had any regard for Eze Nri’s authority. You can see some of the traditions mentioned here in Onwuejeogwu’s Nri Kingdom and Hegemony, Dike and Ekejiuba’s The Aro: a case study of state formation in southeastern Nigeria. There’s even an eyewitness account of the aftermath of the attack on Nteje in Isichei’s The Igbo Worlds.

I wouldn’t take an Eze Nri who says Benin was subject to him in the early 20th century seriously if I were you. Apparently every people that came into some sort of contact with his ritual agents were interpreted by him as being ‘subject to him.’ Note what Northcote said, “So far as I could see, no disputes were referred to him at all….”

You are doing a good job. Come back when you’ve found something better than Obalike’s self-aggrandizing words (which in any case made no reference to Arochukwu or many major towns in Igboland.)


.

Jedrej and Shaw never set foot in Igboland. Why would you think they would have anything ‘revealing’ to contribute here, beyond making the same mistakes people like Ehret made, sitting in their studies in US and Britain, and writing about something they knew so little about? In any case, can you quote Jedrej and Shaw’s actual words?

Perhaps its time to even place Nri in its right context in Igbo cultural history. Starting with the true nature of their relations with the Adama. And I may do so here on this thread.



I don’t know about elephant tusks. We did make the otonsi for Nri priests, the supreme paraphernalia of their ‘priesthood’. We never made one for Umuoji, though…because they were never ritual agents or representatives of the hegemony. Only the ‘Brahmin’ Nri families in Agukwu-Nri, Oraeri, and the Urunebo quarters of Enugu-Ukwu formed the hieratic elite that defined Nri’s hegemony.

Why is an Umuoji man carrying Nri matter on his head to the extent of having an ‘NriPriest’ moniker? No Umuoji man was ever an Nri Priest. Your Nriness is just as trivial as the Nriness of an Ogboli-Ibusa man, or an Aku (Nsukka) man

adusim:


OdenigboAroli, you are a foolish man. Who is Eze Nri? He isn't worth shyte in Igbo land except for a few deluded fools like you. You better shut up and hold your corner, boy. Y[b]ou Nri people only recently started calling yourself Igbo[/b] and now you want to try and assume a position that you are not even entitled to. Come to my neck of the woods and speak to some one like this. You will be subject to a public flogging.

bigfrancis21:


“The Ezenri claimed that he had to settle disputes in the
territory that acknowledged him, i.e., as far as Amansi in
the east, Agoleri in the north, Umucuku in the south.
How far precisely he is recognized in the west I did not
ascertain. He mentioned among the towns subject to him,
Asaba, Isele, Agbor, and the land as far as Idu (Benin city),
but I have no evidence that Nri men go nearly so far west.
So far as I could see no disputes were referred to him at all….”

@bold...The Arochukwu people were also known as Umuchukwu as well. How sure can we say the Umuchukwu in bold isn't in reference to the Arochukwu?

Radoillo:


A distinction, however, has to be made between what the people were called (on the basis of the oracle they promoted) and what the town was called. In northern Igbo traditions, the town of Arochukwu was never referred to as Umuchukwu. I'm not sure the people in the south used Umuchukwu when speaking specifically of the town of Arochukwu either. I can't speak for them though.

bigfrancis21:


Pre-colonial times, most Igbo clans referred to themselves by their village names rather than 'Igbo'. The Igbo tag and consciousness is only but of recent construct. So where is this coming from?

adusim:


This is coming from a place that recognises that a select group of people were always referred to as 'IGBO' since time immemorial and that most (if not all) of the people in Northern Igbo land were not, which includes Nri. Case in point, when asked if they were Igbo most of the people occupying Anambra refuted this tag and disdainfully referred to those living to the south as Igbos - a hitherto derogatory term. My point is, you jekebe people are recent new comers in the Igbo speaking area. Nevertheless, you are all welcome. I suggest you read up on the deep cleavages in Igbo land for your continued education.

adusim:


This is coming from a place that recognises that a select group of people were always referred to as 'IGBO' since time immemorial and that most (if not all) of the people in Northern Igbo land were not, which includes Nri. Case in point, when asked if they were Igbo most of the people occupying Anambra refuted this tag and disdainfully referred to those living to the south as Igbos - a hitherto derogatory term. My point is, you jekebe people are recent new comers in the Igbo speaking area. Nevertheless, you are all welcome. I suggest you read up on the deep cleavages in Igbo land for your continued education.

The Igbere (Igbo ere) town in Abia state was named after an unsuccessful attempt by slave raiders (most likely Aro) to invade and capture slaves from the town but were resisted by the people. In celebration of their success, they named their town, 'Igbo ereghi' (the Igbo could not sell us. In other words, they were not 'Igbo' but rather the people who tried to invade them')

tpia6:



what was the name of the town before then?

just curious.

bigfrancis21:


And what is your point? If NI/WI found it difficult accepting the Igbo tag have you ever bothered understanding their cultural and societal background to understand why they might have done so? You're pointing fingers at NI for not accepting the Igbo tag when SI itself was very guilty of the same offence.

In the times of yore, 'Igbo' in Western Igboland and some areas of NI meant 'slave'. This might make more sense given that Southern Igboland participated more in the slave trade in selling themselves than did the NI (save for a few places). And NI/WI clans used 'Igbo' to refer to 'the set of people living downwards/southwards of them who sold themselves out as slaves'. Very little evidence exists for the wilful participation of NI in slavery. It is safe to say that slavery was largely frowned upon in NI axis. The 'disdain' you mentioned should therefore be now better understood by you.

In addition, entire southern Igboland clans never referred to themselves as 'Igbo' except maybe the Aruchukwu slave raiders (Arochukwu was also referred to as 'Aro Oke Igbo' or 'Okigbo' in short) that traversed the entire Igboland scouting for slaves. They were known to apply red coloring on their body in disguise before proceeding on their activities - the same people Olaudah might have referred to as 'Oye Eboe' (red men from a distance) when he wrote his book. The 'distance' Olaudah referring to probably being Arochukwu. The Igbere (Igbo ere) town in Abia state was named after an unsuccessful attempt by slave raiders (most likely Aro) to invade and capture slaves from the town but were resisted by the people. In celebration of their success, they named their town, 'Igbo ereghi' (the Igbo could not sell us. In other words, they were not 'Igbo' but rather the people who tried to invade them'). Such town names like this are equally subtle reminders of the non-generality of the 'Igbo' tag across southern Igboland.

Igbo slaves (who were mostly from the south), on arrival at the Americas, when asked their ethnicities mentioned their respective villages they came from and hardly mentioned 'Igbo' and were shocked to discover that they and everyone speaking similar dialects and from the Bight of Bonny were being called 'Igbo' in the Americas. Those slaves did not have the so-called Igbo consciousness as they were not born and raised with it.

The general Igbo consciousness and ethnic tag started coming into widespread acceptance and usage from around early 20th century after the British occupation of Nigeria and their grouping of similar-sounding dialects together as one.

The acceptance or non-acceptance of the Igbo tag is totally relevant to the authenticity of an Igbo clan. Before the advent of the Igbo ethnic group, these clans had always existed, interacted amongst themselves and knew themselves without any Igbo-attachment whatsoever.