The catholic church had to present it has the "perfect word of God" so it could used as a instrument of control. In those days the bible was not widely in circulation since there was no printing technology then. People had to depend on what the church told them then since they didn't have access to the bible talkless of scrutinizing it. Telling people you were reading from the perfect word of God would make it easier for you to get results especially when they can't verify what they have been told.

Of course the Catholic Church is the villain yet this is the book that you regard as the word of God. Double standard much?

If you've ever been to a Catholic Church's Bible study you will see that only the Catholic Church studies the Bible in the context it is written. It's funny I just had Bible study last night and the origin of the Bible is what we talked aout. We're still on the Old Testament. We're the ones over the centuries that have not hidden anything, but because of lack of knowledge from a lot of people they make the Catholic Church the villain.

I guess the Jews were also wrong in regarding the Torah as the word of God, and well you must regard the Gospels and writings as not the word of God right?

I know that god ordered some one to be stoned to death for breaking one of the laws. . . . . picking sticks on the sabbath. . . . please can some one tell us what the punishment is for boiling a baby goat in its mothers milk? it's also one of the commandments will jehova boil you in your mother's blood if you break that law? i know he can because he has done worse things. . . . . . .

source pls.

~Lady~:

source please.

Exodus 34 vs

11
    But you, on your part, must keep the commandments I am giving you today. "I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.
12
    Take care, therefore, not to make a covenant with these inhabitants of the land that you are to enter; else they will become a snare among you.
13
    1 Tear down their altars; smash their sacred pillars, and cut down their sacred poles.
14
    2 You shall not worship any other god, for the LORD is 'the Jealous One'; a jealous God is he.
15
    Do not make a covenant with the inhabitants of that land; else, when they render their wanton worship to their gods and sacrifice to them, one of them may invite you and you may partake of his sacrifice.
16
    Neither shall you take their daughters as wives for your sons; otherwise, when their daughters render their wanton worship to their gods, they will make your sons do the same.
17
    "You shall not make for yourselves molten gods.
18
    "You shall keep the feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days at the prescribed time in the month of Abib you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you; for in the month of Abib you came out of Egypt.
19
    "To me belongs every first-born male that opens the womb among all your livestock, whether in the herd or in the flock.
20
    The firstling of an ass you shall redeem with one of the flock; if you do not redeem it, you must break its neck. The first-born among your sons you shall redeem. "No one shall appear before me empty-handed.
21
    "For six days you may work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; on that day you must rest even during the seasons of plowing and harvesting.
22
    3 "You shall keep the feast of Weeks with the first of the wheat harvest; likewise, the feast at the fruit harvest at the close of the year.
23
    Three times a year all your men shall appear before the Lord, the LORD God of Israel.
24
    Since I will drive out the nations before you to give you a large territory, there will be no one to covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the LORD, your God.
25
    "You shall not offer me the blood of sacrifice with leavened bread, nor shall the sacrifice of the Passover feast be kept overnight for the next day.
26
    "The choicest first fruits of your soil you shall bring to the house of the LORD, your God. "You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk."

it is also part of the commandments

it is also part of the commandments

All these comes down to the 10 commandments, and in case you have missed it, I posted about how things were permitted because of the hearts of men. These laws were meant for a particular people at a particular time living a particular way. It is catered specifically for them. The commandments that are general are the ones that God himself wrote with his finger and these are the 10 commandments. Every commandment after that comes as a "detailed" commandment.

And that is cruel, to boil a kid in it's mother's milk.

Hey lady long time, you are an offshore nairalander
Now to source,

Lets start at the beginning with commandment number 1 and 2
1 We are to have no other god's except God
2. Worship no god but the Lord

Clearly we can see if you are breaking number 2 you are breaking number one also, these commandments look easy on the eye but if we dig just a bit deeper we will see that Gods people were instructed to kill you if you went against any of them, where you ask

Deut 13:6-9
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people0 Stone him to death because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God.

And please that argument that it was because of the hearts of men is stale, one because man has not changed, man is still wicked if you want to put it that way and secondly it is cruel regardless.
You asked for sources I will come up with the others.

Commandment number three

Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

God doesnt mess around when he says something and a young boy was just about to find out, our punshment story is taken from
leveticus 24

10 Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the Name with a curse; so they brought him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them.

13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: 'If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

and true to his word as always we see the action that was taken out on the boy in verse 23

23 Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Should I go to commandment number 4?

Hey lady long time, you are an offshore nairalander

Lol, yeah these books are no joke and I have been fighting a professor for graduation. I also work with abused kids. I am basically on-call, these kids are no joke.

Lets start at the beginning with commandment number 1 and 2
1 We are to have no other god's except God
2. Worship no god but the Lord

Clearly we can see if you are breaking number 2 you are breaking number one also, these commandments look easy on the eye but if we dig just a bit deeper we will see that Gods people were instructed to kill you if you went against any of them, where you ask

Deut 13:6-9
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people0 Stone him to death because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God.

And please that argument that it was because of the hearts of men is stale, one because man has not changed, man is still wicked if you want to put it that way and secondly it is cruel regardless.
You asked for sources I will come up with the others.

This is why one has to understand the background of the Bible and know what is standing for a particular time and to a particular people. These laws were standing at that time to the Jewish people, and they were not the way God wanted things to go, but because of their ways and what they asked for, these laws were permitted.
Also something else is that Moses was the Prophet at that time, he had authority given by God to "govern" so there are laws that he permitted because that's the way the people wanted it. If you look at the Old Testament you will see that the laws did not just stop there. These people kept on breaking down the laws that they were becoming so detailed, right down to the tee, there may have been 10 commandments, but these people detailed the commandments and created laws dealing with each situation.

These people were also a nomadic people, their culture greatly influenced the laws of their land. These laws are no different from the laws we have today in our society. These laws were not "religious' laws they were societal laws. The Old Testament is a history book and a legal system for the Jews, and as we know legal systems are subject to change.

Why then is it regarded as "word of God?"
Because we are to know the history of how Christianity came to be. The Jews only regard the pentateuch as the word of God and everything else is the history books, the writings, and the prophets. The pentateuch is the law. Christians regard everything as the word of God, because we believe that inhis dealings with the Israelites God revealed himself to us. Whether we accept the way he did things or not or whether we allow what he permitted to happen or not, we accept it as a way in which God revealed himself to us. They are accounts of interactions with God and his people.

I think the problem is that people have created an image of what they think God is or should be, and when they see something that they don't agree with they loose faith.
Instead of seeing God as a judge or Justice they want to see God as a "hippie". You know free loving and carefree and let everyone do whatever.

Well God isn't like that and infact he is the Unknown, and his ways are not our ways.

So the question now is why then is Christianity different from Judaism?
Christianity just sets things in the right order of how they should be. So instead of seeing laws of stone your brother to death, you see laws of love those who do not love you and if you harbor evil in your heart against your brother, you might as well have killed him.

I have to run, time for class, bye.

Chrisbenogor:

Commandment number three

Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

God doesnt mess around when he says something and a young boy was just about to find out, our punshment story is taken from
leveticus 24

10 Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the Name with a curse; so they brought him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them.

13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: 'If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

and true to his word as always we see the action that was taken out on the boy in verse 23

23 Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Should I go to commandment number 4?

keple enough abeg. . . . .

"The Old Testament is responsible for more atheism, agnosticism, disbelief — call it what you will — than any book ever written; it has emptied more churches than all the counter attractions of cinema, motor bicycle and golf course."
— A. A. Milne

~Lady~:



This is why one has to understand the background of the Bible and know what is standing for a particular time and to a particular people. These laws were standing at that time to the Jewish people, and they were not the way God wanted things to go, but because of their ways and what they asked for, these laws were permitted.
Also something else is that Moses was the Prophet at that time, he had authority given by God to "govern" so there are laws that he permitted because that's the way the people wanted it. If you look at the Old Testament you will see that the laws did not just stop there. These people kept on breaking down the laws that they were becoming so detailed, right down to the tee, there may have been 10 commandments, but these people detailed the commandments and created laws dealing with each situation.

These people were also a nomadic people, their culture greatly influenced the laws of their land. These laws are no different from the laws we have today in our society. These laws were not "religious' laws they were societal laws. The Old Testament is a history book and a legal system for the Jews, and as we know legal systems are subject to change.

Why then is it regarded as "word of God?"
Because we are to know the history of how Christianity came to be. The Jews only regard the pentateuch as the word of God and everything else is the history books, the writings, and the prophets. The pentateuch is the law. Christians regard everything as the word of God, because we believe that inhis dealings with the Israelites God revealed himself to us. Whether we accept the way he did things or not or whether we allow what he permitted to happen or not, we accept it as a way in which God revealed himself to us. They are accounts of interactions with God and his people.

I think the problem is that people have created an image of what they think God is or should be, and when they see something that they don't agree with they loose faith.
Instead of seeing God as a judge or Justice they want to see God as a "hippie". You know free loving and carefree and let everyone do whatever.

Well God isn't like that and infact he is the Unknown, and his ways are not our ways.

So the question now is why then is Christianity different from Judaism?
Christianity just sets things in the right order of how they should be. So instead of seeing laws of stone your brother to death, you see laws of love those who do not love you and if you harbor evil in your heart against your brother, you might as well have killed him.

I have to run, time for class, bye.

i never hear this kin explanation ohhh

Commandment number three

Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

God doesnt mess around when he says something and a young boy was just about to find out, our punshment story is taken from
leveticus 24

10 Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the Name with a curse; so they brought him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them.

13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: 'If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

and true to his word as always we see the action that was taken out on the boy in verse 23

23 Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Should I go to commandment number 4?

Commandment Number 4
Remember that thou keep the sabbath day holy

Maybe some people are already hoping that at least something will change in the degree of the punishments but I have got bad news for you it doesn't

Exodus 31
14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Why are these parts skipped in sunday school? oh yes I know it would definitely gross the kids out.

A case study
Numbers 15
32And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Ok let me stop here it is getting too grotesque, lady I dont see how you can even stomach all this. The issue here is that the punishment was death, that is what I said initially and you said it was not true.

Commandment Number 4
Remember that thou keep the sabbath day holy

Maybe some people are already hoping that at least something will change in the degree of the punishments but I have got bad news for you it doesn't

Exodus 31
14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

Why are these parts skipped in sunday school? oh yes I know it would definitely gross the kids out.

A case study
Numbers 15
32And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Ok let me stop here it is getting too grotesque, lady I dont see how you can even stomach all this. The issue here is that the punishment was death, that is what I said initially and you said it was not true.

Chrisbenogor thou shall not fry a baby pig in it's mother's fat. . . . if you do i will boil you in your blood. . . . Mazaje 3:16

I no go join your church o brother mazaje kai burning of children killing of even innocent animals.
They see nothing wrong in all this, until its their children.

Commandment number three

Thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

God doesnt mess around when he says something and a young boy was just about to find out, our punshment story is taken from
leveticus 24

10 Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the Name with a curse; so they brought him to Moses. (His mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them.

13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 "Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: 'If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

and true to his word as always we see the action that was taken out on the boy in verse 23

23 Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses.
Should I go to commandment number 4?

And as I have stated before, the laws were meant for a particular people at a particular time with a particular culture. Which God are you looking for, the one who you make a covenant with and then turn against him and expect you to get away with it?
These people had a covenant with God and when the laws were broken punishment comes with it. For nomadic people at that time, this was how they handled situations.
God is a God of Justice. Don't make the mistake of having a view of how he is in your mind and then expecting him to be that way.

Maybe some people are already hoping that at least something will change in the degree of the punishments but I have got bad news for you it doesn't

You're making the mistake of taking a historical law and applying it today. Is this supposed to scare people? It should only scare those who do not understand the backgraound of the Bible and the culture and the people for which it was written. If anyone were to come up and say that these laws are applicable today, then you know something is wrong with them.

Why are these parts skipped in sunday school? oh yes I know it would definitely gross the kids out.

Because it is not applicable today.

For example, slavery was the law of the land in the U.S. until it was abolished, should we now abandon the U.S. because slavery used to be the law of the land?

From your reasoning, no black person should be living in the U.S.

Ok let me stop here it is getting too grotesque, lady I don't see how you can even stomach all this. The issue here is that the punishment was death, that is what I said initially and you said it was not true

I have stated that the punishment for breaking the sabbath law is not death. The operative there is IS. You state of the past and I state of the present.

With my knowledge of the history of the Bible, I stomach it just fine.

i never hear this kin explanation ohhh

Well now you have heard. What is it about the explanation that you don't like? The part about the laws being for a particular time and people. Are these laws practiced today?

I no go join your church o brother mazaje kai burning of children killing of even innocent animals.
They see nothing wrong in all this, until its their children.

We do see something wrong in it, that's why it has been undone. Christ undid that, or do you disagree?

My dear lady, I have not alluded many of those things yet. Yes christ was smart enough to know it was dumb to stone a man to death for the whole sunday kini, but you need to get me straight.
See I am not saying stop being a christian yet and I do not remember saying that, but these things were wrong and the laws were barbaric. It is what man should engage in and not God.
God being almighty should at least know that keeping slaves is wrong, but Jesus did not condemn it either. No wonder the christians had slaves, but should that make you not stay in the US hell no. Does it suddenly dissolve all the atrocities that were committed against the black race, lady it does not, if we apply your analogy we can say slavery was good for the black people then because we were behind the whites and needed the chains. What is wrong is wrong, that is the reason why laws are abolished and repealed. I am saying the laws a God gives should have been perfect and sensible not senseless. You guys say man is not perfect me I say your God sucks.

~Lady~:

And as I have stated before, the laws were meant for a particular people at a particular time with a particular culture. Which God are you looking for, the one who you make a covenant with and then turn against him and expect you to get away with it?
These people had a covenant with God and when the laws were broken punishment comes with it. For nomadic people at that time, this was how they handled situations.
God is a God of Justice. Don't make the mistake of having a view of how he is in your mind and then expecting him to be that way.

You're making the mistake of taking a historical law and applying it today. Is this supposed to scare people? It should only scare those who do not understand the backgraound of the Bible and the culture and the people for which it was written. If anyone were to come up and say that these laws are applicable today, then you know something is wrong with them.

Because it is not applicable today.

For example, slavery was the law of the land in the US. until it was abolished, should we now abandon the US. because slavery used to be the law of the land?

From your reasoning, no black person should be living in the US.

I have stated that the punishment for breaking the sabbath law is not death. The operative there is IS. You state of the past and I state of the present.

With my knowledge of the history of the Bible, I stomach it just fine.

Well now you have heard. What is it about the explanation that you don't like? The part about the laws being for a particular time and people. Are these laws practiced today?

We do see something wrong in it, that's why it has been undone. Christ undid that, or do you disagree?

1. From your repsonses above you freely admits that yahweh is not a universal god because he is a god of a particular set of people. he should have given a universal law then,
2. You claim that the 10 commandment were historical, ( you dare go to any jewish synagogue and tell them that. If you are not stone to death thank your stars then. ), ergo a god that is suppose to be omni whatever would have known that he is giving a law that is non-everlasting law that sane rational people will not buy. where was jesus when his dad was giving out all these barbaric law to the israelites ( he took siddon and look approach)
3. I submit to you that your yahweh/jehovah is abhorent, what kind of god will encourage allow people to be enslaved, he is a despicable monster for all other atrocities that he allowed
4. oh oh so you can see something that his wrong with the law that your yahweh gave, but it is claimed that he is perfect just and can do no wrong.
5. nothing has been undone, christ did not undo naaadaaa he said he came to fulfill them, (was he not working with his father when he was in heaven back then why did he not tell his dad that those commandments are barbaric, detestable and wrong), "iru iro ni iborun won"

Hi Guys.
I have enjoyed reading your arguments, and i am feeling a bit worried that you non believers seem to be making some very good points. Although i think your arguments are very logical and make a lot of sense, my faith is just that,  'faith' and comes from the heart not the head.

However, i am reading the passages you referred to in the old testament and am finding it very hard to understand, condone, or, justify the things i am reading. This is a very difficult and scary thing for me to admit, but i think i am starting to lose my faith in faith alone, and asking difficult questions that i never used to ask before.

For example;
Why do our pastors always pick and choose what is relevant from the old testament for us to follow and what is not? For example, they always quote the old testament when they want my monthly tithe. Now my pastor has just clarified to us that he expects us to give the church 10% before income tax is deducted and not after, like i used to give. My friend brought the issue up in church a couple weeks ago and i just kept quiet about it. My pastor has so much money whilst i am struggling to make ends meet. It's not fair!

The scary thing for me is that my faith is a very important part of my life and if i lose that, what will i have left.
Even The ten commandments don't make much sense anymore. This is very depressing, Help!!

My dear mantraa, the ten commandments are worse than any of the slave laws that were abolished. Pastors and the religious clergy make it a point to avoid these verses because its just impossible to imagine am almighty being with the emotions of a bull.
Let me start by saying never take my word for it, I will only try to lay down the facts as I see them and then you can double check whatever I have said and make up your mind for yourself.
You see the biggest problem they have is that jesus has tied them seriously to the commandments and the law of moses, but the very well read clergy know this. I was saying on another thread how I had an interesting discussion with a cousin who will be a priest very soon and I asked him why they refuse to tell people the whole truth. For him it is what people will do if they knew all this things, so ask yourself first how would you react if I even told you moses did not write the books he allegedly wrote?
Or that the writers of the five gospels are unknown?
Or that paul is gnostic and disagreed with peter who walked with christ in flesh?
What I am asking is are you ready to find out if this christianity is not as they say it is?
I prefer using simple issues such as this to awaken the mind.
Help is around you, just use google.

mantraa:

Hi Guys.
I have enjoyed reading your arguments, and i am feeling a bit worried that you non believers seem to be making some very good points. Although i think your arguments are very logical and make a lot of sense, my faith is just that,  'faith' and comes from the heart not the head.

However, i am reading the passages you referred to in the old testament and am finding it very hard to understand, condone, or, justify the things i am reading. This is a very difficult and scary thing for me to admit, but i think i am starting to lose my faith in faith alone, and asking difficult questions that i never used to ask before.

For example;
Why do our pastors always pick and choose what is relevant from the old testament for us to follow and what is not? For example, they always quote the old testament when they want my monthly tithe. Now my pastor has just clarified to us that he expects us to give the church 10% before income tax is deducted and not after, like i used to give. My friend brought the issue up in church a couple weeks ago and i just kept quiet about it. My pastor has so much money whilst i am struggling to make ends meet. It's not fair!

The scary thing for me is that my faith is a very important part of my life and if i lose that, what will i have left.
Even The ten commandments don't make much sense anymore. This is very depressing, Help!!

What is this thing that you call FAITH and why and how is it important to you?   Look like you are making some breakthroughs in your thinking, a very much commendable thing.   Let me give you a few more ideas which you may want to discuss with your pastors;

1)  Should the Genesis accounts (Creation, Adam&Eve, Garden of Eden, Noah and his boat, etc)  be read literally or allegorically.  If read literally, then how do you explain things that are much much older than Genesis suggests? If read allegorically, then how do you know which parts of the bible are to be taken literally and which parts allegorically?

2)  I have made a case for why I think the commandments give in Exodus 34 should take precedence over those give in Exodus 20.  Do you ever hear this discussed in your church?  You don't you ask your pastor for his opinion?
  See this link.


3)  When was Jesus born?  Was Jesus born on or before 4CE as implied in Matthew  or around 6BCE as implied by Luke?

4)  Was Jesus related (ie, same bloodline) to David and how was he related to David?   Was Jesus related to David through his mother Mary or through his Father Joseph?  Why are the genealogies of Jesus given in Matthew and Luke so much at variance with each other?

5)  Why are few of Jesus "moral" message relevant today?   Such injunctions as leave you family to follow him, to not plan for tomorrow,  turn the other cheek and not resist violent attack, cut off bodily parts that cause you to sin.   Why is he so disposed to violence, saying that he did not come to bring peace but a sword?

Why don't you ponder these question, discuss with friends, family and pastors.  You seem to be a very thoughful person so some further thinking would seem to brighten your perspective.

.

What is this thing that you call FAITH and why and how is it important to you? Look like you are making some breakthroughs in your thinking, a very much commendable thing. Let me give you a few more ideas which you may want to discuss with your pastors;

Be careful dear because you too cling to your FAITH (belief). It is your FAITH that God deosn't exist, it is your FAITH that science is the answer to everything. It is your FAITH that scientific data are the only things to be believed.
So dear you too have FAITH.

1) Should the Genesis accounts (Creation, Adam&Eve, Garden of Eden, Noah and his boat, etc) be read literally or allegorically. If read literally, then how do you explain things that are much much older than Genesis suggests? If read allegorically, then how do you know which parts of the bible are to be taken literally and which parts allegorically?

No they should not be taken literal. It is really simple to know what is literal and what is allegorical, just as it is simple for me to tell when you are using a figure of speech. Simply read within the context, and also knowing the history of the book being read in the Bible. Not all the books are written in the same time, to the same people and in the same style. There are different styles of writing in the Bible, especially since they are written by different people with different personalities and different languages.
This is why not anyone can simply pick up the Bible and start interpreting it, as some people on this board think.
And finally the Ultimate way of understanding the Bible is with the help of the holy spirit.

2) I have made a case for why I think the commandments give in Exodus 34 should take precedence over those give in Exodus 20. Do you ever hear this discussed in your church? You don't you ask your pastor for his opinion?
See this link

The Exodus 34 commandments are not different from the commandments from 20. Verse 1 says " The Lord said to Moses, "Cut two stone tablets like the former that I may write on them the Commandments which were on the former tables that you broke. they were not different. The 'commandments" you read still covered under the original commandments, you may look at them as example.

3) When was Jesus born? Was Jesus born on or before 4CE as implied in Matthew or around 6BCE as implied by Luke?

You may want to show us where they are implied.

4) Was Jesus related (ie, same bloodline) to David and how was he related to David? Was Jesus related to David through his mother Mary or through his Father Joseph? Why are the genealogies of Jesus given in Matthew and Luke so much at variance with each other?

He was related to David through the bloodline of his foster father, he was known as the son of Joseph and Mary, and that was the reason why some people did not believe him.
i can't give you an answer to the last question, but I'm prety sure it had something to do with the way in which they recorded genealogies at that time.

5) Why are few of Jesus "moral" message relevant today? Such injunctions as leave you family to follow him, to not plan for tomorrow, turn the other cheek and not resist violent attack, cut off bodily parts that cause you to sin. Why is he so disposed to violence, saying that he did not come to bring peace but a sword

All of Jesus moral laws are relvenat today, people may not practice them but it doesn't make them any less relevant, actually it makes them even more relevant.
When he speaks of leaving family to folow him, he means don't let you family be a hindrance to your belief. Also Priests do leave their families and follow him, he was directly talking to those who wish to be his apostles, or those sent out to preach the gospel.
To not plan for tomorrow he means keep in mind that you may die tonight, therefore don't starve yourself only to not wake up tomorrow. Not properly planning for the future, isn't wrong, but simply refusing to live today is.
Turn the other cheek is very relevant, i like the quote of if everyone did an eye for an eye the whole world would be blind. It is relevant, some people just don't put it in practice. Also turn the other cheek could very well mean being the bigger person in a negative situation.
he did not literally mean cut off your body part but to not give it more power, basically correct the wrong in it. The sword he speaks of is not physical. And what he means is that he has come to set apart his own from others. He uses the sword as a symbol, and the peace he mentions is a false peace. the peace is when people follow the bandwagon isntead of taking a stance on the right thing. people are afraid and in today's terms want to be politically correct, that is what Christ was talking about peace, he didn't come to be politically correct.

hope that helps.

Once again I find your defence of these issues quite amusing.
I will take you up on just one issue and that will engulf the rest.
Please who wrote Genesis?

Should the bible be taken literally or allegorically?

Lady, you say it should be taken allegorically. Maybe you are right, but someone should have told these guys.

http://www.alrcnewskitchen.com/creationmuseum/index.htm
This website  absolutely contradicts virtually everything i learnt in science class!

http://www.thebricktestament.com/

The second link comes with this warning:
- CONTENT NOTICE -
The Bible contains material some may consider morally objectionable and/or inappropriate for children. These labels identify stories containing:

N= nudity  S= sexual content  V= violence   C= cursing

I found it quite amusing, but also a bit offensive and disrespectful.

I consider myself a very openminded christian and realise that i don't know everything and neither do scientists. However, unbelievers need to understand for us christians it is our life, emotionally, socially, spiritually, and intellectually. Think of it like this. You are in love with your wife / husband / children and would do anything to defend them even though that may seem irrational to someone who dose not feel what you do. Christians have a relationship with Jesus even though you may find it hard to understand,   
However, I think God gave me a brain for a reason and now i am using it to look at the bigger picture i am hungry for more knowledge.

Can someone recommend some good books for me to read from both sides of the fence?

@mantraa
My dear there are loads of info out there, I told you about google.
Try bible stories your parents never taught you by mike earl, a little bit on the other side but I think the guy was honest.
Tv shows are another great way to go they are not balanced sometimes too but are a great way to get good questions.

My dear Chrisbenogor. Thanks for your suggestions, but i was more thinking of something i could read on the train on the way to and from work.

@~Lady~,

huxley's question:
1)  Should the Genesis accounts (Creation, Adam&Eve, Garden of Eden, Noah and his boat, etc)  be read literally or allegorically.  If read literally, then how do you explain things that are much much older than Genesis suggests? If read allegorically, then how do you know which parts of the bible are to be taken literally and which parts allegorically?

Your reply to the question above was:

~Lady~:

No they should not be taken literal. It is really simple to know what is literal and what is allegorical, just as it is simple for me to tell when you are using a figure of speech. Simply read within the context, and also knowing the history of the book being read in the Bible. Not all the books are written in the same time, to the same people and in the same style. There are different styles of writing in the Bible, especially since they are written by different people with different personalities and different languages.
This is why not anyone can simply pick up the Bible and start interpreting it, as some people on this board think.
And finally the Ultimate way of understanding the Bible is with the help of the holy spirit.

The answer you gave to huxley's question above which I highlighted gives me the impression that you do not take the Genesis account of creation literally, which is the same standpoint of the RCC.  You see it as allegorical so as to give room to the million or billions of years suggested by the evolutionists. 

My question to you is; Do you take the 10 commandments as literal?  If yes, how will you explain what God said in Exodus 20:11?  which God personally wrote Himself that "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day".

And if your answer is No, that you don't believe that the decalogue was to be read literally, or that it was allergorical, then do you believe what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 19:4-6 that "Have ye not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female . . ." as He quoted from Gen. 1:26-27 and 2:21-25

Try those stories by mike earl they are on mp3 format, you can listen on your way back.
Then you can always print out stuff from the internet, I am wary with reading books written by just one person but if I will look for good ones for you.

mantraa:

Can someone recommend some good books for me to read from both sides of the fence?

My advise to you is to prayerfully read, study and meditate the Word of God, which is the Holy Bible. Read it to be wise, believe it to be saved and practise it to be holy.

@olaa
Do you mean read those stories that were written by unknown authors?

@mantraa
Please if you seek more knowledge, maybe you face your studies or further your education.that will do you less harm than towing the path of Eve.She wanted to know more and "be like God".
That which you have(the Bible), study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed,rightly dividing the Word of truth.When you finish that course if you can(cos its inexhaustible),then seek for more knowledge.
Presently your brain is for you to have dominion over the earth and effect your generation positively,not for going into literature that would confuse you and deaden your faith.God be with you