addempsea:
"Several people in this world have grossly
mis-characterized Atheism as a belief. Let
me see if I can help explain Atheism by
means of a metaphor:
There is an auditorium full of people
gathered in groups and wearing colored
shirts; some groups are wearing red
shirts, others green, etc.... In the middle of
the auditorium is a table with an opaque
un-opened box on it and hanging from the
ceiling above the box is a sign that reads:
"What color is the fruit inside the box?".
The people wear the color of shirt they
believe the color of the fruit in the box to
be.

Some people believe the color of the fruit
to be red, because their family and friends,
teachers and acquaintances all believe it to
be red, and how could so many people be
wrong? Other people wear orange shirts
they have incredibly articulated logical
formulations to explain how the fruit can
be no other color than orange. Other
believe the color to be green; they
intuitively felt "green-ness" emitting from
the box the moment they entered the
auditorium. Etc....


The Atheist is the one who doesn't align
with a color, but rather questions: "Since
nobody has ever opened the box and
nobody can see into it, how do we know
there is even a fruit in it let alone know
what color it might be?". The people who
believe the fruit is in the box and believe
they know what color it is are the ones
holding a belief. The Atheist holds no belief
because there is no good reason to do so.

The reason that I, as an Atheist, engage in
dialog with believers is to, hopefully, help convince
them to focus their efforts on
finding out what's in the box rather than wasting
their time focusing on their beliefs. I hope this helps
clear up some of the misunderstanding people have
about Atheists and what we "believe" ."

This is not an Atheist. Rather it describes an Agnostic.

An atheist says: that there is no fruit in the box. Of course, he cannot prove that any more than the theist can prove the colour of the fruit in the box if the fruit existed.

FOLYKAZE:



God is anything that is been worshipped (As defined by PastorAIO).

I vaguely remember saying something like this but it was tongue in cheek. I think I even phrased it as a question. So I asked: Is God anything that is worshipped?

Why I love this thread so much is that it exposes a point that I've been trying to make on NL since I got here many years ago. Basically, 'God' is the most ill defined term in the whole world. If Atheists are struggling so much then imagine the mess that is in the heads of most theists.

It seems that everyone is thinking of something slightly different when they say 'god'. However there are certain patterns that you can notice.

Human beings have a tendency to anthropomorphise certain concepts and experiences. Freezing cold is personalised as a fellow called Jack Frost. Fortuity is personalised as Lady Luck. Justice too is personalised as a blind woman with a sword in one hand and a pair of scales in the other.

Similarly God is just an anthropomorphication (I've just invented a word) of the concept of Absolute Authority. So whenever humans need justification for their actions they always conjure up one 'God' or another. How they dress up the anthropomorphication will vary from culture to culture but it all boils down to one thing, the God lends Authority to some activity or the other.

This is one definition of God that is quite widespread. There are others.

@ Muskeeto thanks



@PastorAIO.

Lol. A nice funny post. Good piece I must say there. Lol!!


I like the way you talked about Anthropomorphism, and your examples are nice I love the justice point of the lady with a sword. And also your conclusion in general.


Good contribution, your explanation and contribution points to my previously heralded point that there are myriads of definition for the word god and that it is a fluid concept. Several views, several opinions and several perspective and dimensions. It can be a universal term.


However from Folykaze explanation, o the guy is crazy ( complements not insult please. I mean this ) folykaze just have a weird unexisting view.

FOLYKAZE:



Mr. . . . .atheism is simply disbelieve in God.

You are the one nailing the the coffin. . . . . .

Anthromorphisation is more like personification, figurative expression which are mostly used in lieratures from time to time. A reasonable person does not have to grasp only the personality attachment but the message been passed.

In your argument you mean to say something like this:

'In Ondo town yesterday, it rain cat and dog'.

On reading this, you went on rampage shouting it is impossible for cat and dog to fall from the sky.

The above sample goes for atheists everywhere. You dont believe in God. . . . . .but the question remains on what God is.

You come here calling on Yahweh, Allah and Zeus as if that is the only God that exist. You look at the dictionary everyday and see God defined as influencial, admired and revered person yet you act as if you dont see it. You read about many conception of God but only sees theistic conception and behave as if the other conception is irrelevant. Everyday, all we hear is noises. . . . .. Noises of unjustified religious belief.

Atheism is not about theistic God. . . . .that should be Non-theism or anti-theism.

What happen to other God conception? Spinoza, pantheism and others? Do you believe in them?

Like I asked Mazaje, do you believe in Iyale (Mother Earth)? She is a personification of Nature. She is pantheistic, anthromorphical and polythiestic Goddess. Been an atheist, do you disbelieve in the existence of God/Goddess; Mother Earth which is Nature? Do you disbelieve in the existnce of Nature?

I only care about exposing the lies being spread about personal Gods. Other ideas of God are not my concern.

I'm totally fine with our planet being called Gaia or Goddess. At least I can SEE the earth, so call it what you like.

Once you start praying to Gaia though, the rules change. She becomes a personal Goddess.

Weah96:

I only care about exposing the lies being spread about personal Gods. Other ideas of God are not my concern.
I'm totally fine with our planet being called Gaia or Goddess. At least I can SEE the earth, so call it what you like.
Once you start praying to Gaia though, the rules change. She becomes a personal Goddess.

'In Ondo town yesterday, it rain cat and dog'.

olboi, if it rains dogs in ondo town.... Na manna from heaven be that o!

Ymodulus:
@ Muskeeto thanks



Good contribution, your explanation and contribution points to my previously heralded point that there are myriads of definition for the word god and that[b] it is a fluid concept. [/b]Several views, several opinions and several perspective and dimensions. It can be a universal term

The fluidity is not any how o! it must be fluid enough to suit being shaped for political purposes.

That is mainly 'God' as an personalisation of the concept of Authority.

There are other quite different things called God too. A man shuts himself in his room and meditates. In the course of his meditation he has an experience in which he finds himself coterminous with the rest of the world, all boundaries dissolve and it is accompanied with an experience of bliss. He concludes that he has had an encounter with God. But due to the nature of the experience he cannot make a distinction between this God and himself, and the rest of existence.
Experiences such as these fuel what we call God, but this is a God that cannot be used to lend authority to human actions or to elevate one set of behaviour or culture above another.
These two definitions of Gods, Authority and oneness of Being, often get conflated.

There is also the God that is a nurturer. More often than not it is depicted as a Motherly figure rather than an Heavenly Father figure. Ultimately anywhere you find sustenance, Nurture, and a sense of Protection, these are personified as the Goddess. This definition of God as Protection, Protector, Protectress, might be linked to the mystical experience of being of one substance with the entirety of existence.

What a read.

mazaje:


You are here again with you merry go rounds,I asked you to give me one attribute of this mother earth of yours, you said one of her attributes is that she is eternal and can not die, when I took you up on it you ran away, trying to change the meaning of the word death. . .

I believe the deity that he is trying to refer to is Ebora Ile. Not Iyale. Iyale in yoruba simply means the first wife in the house. Iyawo is then used for the other lesser wives.

Yes, the yoruba worship the earth as Ebora Ile. Igbo people do it too and call her Ala.

FOLYKAZE:



Sorry for cutting down this. . . . .

Atheism is not a-theism. It is 'atheos' meaning without god. So atheism is not about theistic god but general god.

Atheism is only concerned with deities, bro. A general God is amorphous, merely a syntactical organization of words, correct as that arrangement may turn out to be.

plaetton:
It is only with regards to religious beliefs that we tend to completely block out the critical thinking area of our minds.

If anything, your own thinking is even less critical.

You are confusing scientific thinking with critical "thinking".

Science has fundamental assumptions which, like a religion, has formed your belief system.

Many religious folk at least understand that they have a belief. You have one, but don't even recognize it.

FOLYKAZE:


I think you are the only one getting dorection where I drive at.

Starting with, I think atheists are disturbed with the label 'God'. These set of people I call Hateist. They hate everything that has to do with God.

Theos simply is God. It is a general name for divinities and deities. This is different from theism which is believe in the existence of theos. The dictionary put it as belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

And atheism is atheos meaning without God. Not without theism. I hope you get that. The problem now is, theos here is general deities, not christian or Islamic deities only but ALL. So if God is defined as influencial person, do you as an atheist disbelieve in him or his existence?

Pantheism is the believe that the universe and totality of everything there in is God. My dog is god and I am too. We are part of the totality.

When we discuss about Orisha, pls keep divinity to one side. You are an Orisha. . . . . .your friend is Orisha, your country is Orisha, the body of water down the street is Orisha. Been an atheist, I am expecting you to disbelieve in your existence.

Those who believe in Jesus knows how to separate him from the ones living in Italy. The believers will likely point to christ or bible for the Jesus they mean. They will openly admit they dont believe in the Italian Jesus or that one playing football as their lord and saviour.



Now Mr, which of the God do you disbelieve in and which one do you believe in?

The atheists on here don't sound hateful. Maybe forceful, which is necessary from time to time.

What I still don't get is how you can say theos refers to divinities and deities, and then turn around to ask if atheists also deny the existence of non divine beings/things that have been labelled God. You need to remind yourself of the meaning of 'divinity' and 'deity'.

Atheism does not relate to claims about influence or reverence. There has to be a supernatural element involved.

So everything is Orisha. Sounds like pantheism to me, though you say there is no divinity in Orisha. This Orisha, is it a distinct being on its own? Or do you mean everything is Orisha the way you mean when you say everything is matter?

People here have been telling you that they don't believe that Fela or any of the other things you mentioned, is God. What open admission are you talking about?

Which of the Gods I don't believe in? Lol. ATHEISM, dude. You haven't succeeded in redefining it yet.

finofaya:


The atheists on here don't sound hateful. Maybe forceful, which is necessary from time to time.

What I still don't get is how you can say theos refers to divinities and deities, and then turn around to ask if atheists also deny the existence of non divine beings/things that have been labelled God. You need to remind yourself of the meaning of 'divinity' and 'deity'.

Atheism does not relate to claims about influence or reverence. There has to be a supernatural element involved.

So everything is Orisha. Sounds like pantheism to me, though you say there is no divinity in Orisha. This Orisha, is it a distinct being on its own? Or do you mean everything is Orisha the way you mean when you say everything is matter?

People here have been telling you that they don't believe that Fela or any of the other things you mentioned, is God. What open admission are you talking about?

Which of the Gods I don't believe in? Lol. ATHEISM, dude. You haven't succeeded in redefining it yet.

The Hateist I am refering to are the militant atheists. I think there is saw the word 'hatetheist' on the internet sometimes ago, it best describe them.

Divinity and deity is same thing like excellent and god.

God has been broken to many things here but you have failed to tell us which God you tend to disbelieve or believe in it existence.

Again I will repeat, you are God (Orisha). Do you disbelieve in your existence?


And pls, supernatural has nothing to do with God. Everything in Nature is super. When there is no logical and emprical explanation for a phenomena, it is supernatural.

PastorAIO:


I vaguely remember saying something like this but it was tongue in cheek. I think I even phrased it as a question. So I asked: Is God anything that is worshipped?

Sorry, I saw the post on your thread. It was posted by Nuclearboy and not you.

Here is the link.. . .https://www.nairaland.com/514524/what-god#6764672

PastorAIO:

Why I love this thread so much is that it exposes a point that I've been trying to make on NL since I got here many years ago. Basically, 'God' is the most ill defined term in the whole world. If Atheists are struggling so much then imagine the mess that is in the heads of most theists.

It seems that everyone is thinking of something slightly different when they say 'god'. However there are certain patterns that you can notice.

Human beings have a tendency to anthropomorphise certain concepts and experiences. Freezing cold is personalised as a fellow called Jack Frost. Fortuity is personalised as Lady Luck. Justice too is personalised as a blind woman with a sword in one hand and a pair of scales in the other.

Similarly God is just an anthropomorphication (I've just invented a word) of the concept of Absolute Authority. So whenever humans need justification for their actions they always conjure up one 'God' or another. How they dress up the anthropomorphication will vary from culture to culture but it all boils down to one thing, the God lends Authority to some activity or the other.

This is one definition of God that is quite widespread. There are others.

What authority? Could this authority be something like 'effect'? I will like to know more about this absolute authority.


And pls do you add more definitions of God to this thread

Weah96:


I only care about exposing the lies being spread about personal Gods. Other ideas of God are not my concern.

Anti-theism. No any other name for this abeg.

Weah96:

I'm totally fine with our planet being called Gaia or Goddess. At least I can SEE the earth, so call it what you like.

Do you believe Goddess Gaia exist even as an atheist?

Yes or No pls

Weah96:

Once you start praying to Gaia though, the rules change. She becomes a personal Goddess.

Prayer is more like enquires for one benefits.

It is not all about closing eye and shouting Lord Gia at top voice.

When you dig into the planet to know more, you are praying.

Like Pastoraio put it, prayer is petition.

PastorAIO:


I believe the deity that he is trying to refer to is Ebora Ile. Not Iyale. Iyale in yoruba simply means the first wife in the house. Iyawo is then used for the other lesser wives.

Yes, the yoruba worship the earth as Ebora Ile. Igbo people do it too and call her Ala.

I think the difference in Mother name in Yoruba comes from the clan. In Ikale, we call it Iyalẹ (Mother Earth) and not Iyale (First wife). In areas like Akotogbo, Irele and Ajagba, it is called Ilẹ.

So pls forgive my phone, it cant write in Yoruba. . . .that is why ẹ is posted as e. I have to copy ẹ from a website.

Weah96:


Atheism is only concerned with deities, bro. A general God is amorphous, merely a syntactical organization of words, correct as that arrangement may turn out to be.

Deity is God.

God is Man.

Does atheism not appy with man been God and deity?

sinequanon:


If anything, your own thinking is even less critical.

You are confusing scientific thinking with critical "thinking".

Science has fundamental assumptions which, like a religion, has formed your belief system.

Many religious folk at least understand that they have a belief. You have one, but don't even recognize it.

I respectfully say hogwash.

First , tell us in what way scientific thinking differs from critical thinking.

Secondly, educate us on a few of these fundamental assumptions of science.

And thirdly, explain how, in my own case, approaching and analyzing issues from a rational position is itself a belief system.

FOLYKAZE:


The Hateist I am refering to are the militant atheists. I think there is saw the word 'hatetheist' on the internet sometimes ago, it best describe them.

Truly, some atheists get rather aggressive about their non belief. But since your grouse is with a particular group of atheists, why do you take issue with atheism as a whole?

Divinity and deity is same thing like excellent and god.

That depends on which of the definitions you are using. Divine is a synonym for excellent. It is also a synonym for supernatural, and for supreme.

God has been broken to many things here but you have failed to tell us which God you tend to disbelieve or believe in it existence.

as it stands now, if there is a deity said to exist anywhere, I have more to say in support of its non existence. Here's the definition of deity I'm using: a supernatural being, like a god or goddess, which is worshipped by people who believe that it controls or exerts force over some part of the world.

Again I will repeat, you are God (Orisha). Do you disbelieve in your existence?

What exactly is Orisha?

And pls, supernatural has nothing to do with God. Everything in Nature is super.

Everything in nature is superwhat? If you mean supernatural, then what is natural? This is a meaningless statement, really.

When there is no logical and emprical explanation for a phenomena, it is supernatural.

No. It is unexplained, not supernatural.

What do you even mean when you say you are atheist?

Ymodulus:


There is nothing as such.

welcome back

Idowuogbo:

welcome back

Thanks ma.

How you doing ma and your day + family?

Ymodulus:


Thanks ma.

How you doing ma and your day + family?

Me and famz are well oo...Glad you back in here doing ya thing. Send my regards to dizy.... be good for now onwards ok? Ciao!

Idowuogbo:

Me and famz are well oo...Glad you back in here doing ya thing. Send my regards to dizy.... be good for now onwards ok? Ciao!

On both request I will thanks. Once more.

FOLYKAZE:


The Hateist I am refering to are the militant atheists. I think there is saw the word 'hatetheist' on the internet sometimes ago, it best describe them.

Divinity and deity is same thing like excellent and god.

God has been broken to many things here but you have failed to tell us which God you tend to disbelieve or believe in it existence.

Again I will repeat, you are God (Orisha). Do you disbelieve in your existence?


And pls, supernatural has nothing to do with God. Everything in Nature is super. When there is no logical and emprical explanation for a phenomena, it is supernatural.

I don't understand your confusion. Deity, as a word, rarely refers to amorphous deities, like my Ford Taurus. When almost anyone in the universe talks about God, they mean a deity who answers prayers.

Other connotations of the word exist, of course, but that is by far the primary one. The reason is simple, there are over 2 billion Jesus people, and almost the same amount of Allah folks.

plaetton:


I respectfully say hogwash.

First , tell us in what way scientific thinking differs from critical thinking.

Scientific thinking is bound and confined by fundamental scientific assumptions. Critical thinking is not.

plaetton:
Secondly, educate us on a few of these fundamental assumptions of science.

That we live in a entirely mechanistic universe.

That free will does not exist.

That we live in a logically consistent universe.

Occam's Razor.

Intelligence only emerges at some large and complex scale, relative to fundamental particles.

plaetton:
And thirdly, explain how, in my own case, approaching and analyzing issues from a rational position is itself a belief system.

You are using the word rational in a self-referential way. i.e by rational analysis, you mean analysis that conforms to the scientific assumptions mentioned above.

(In your replies, you will continue to use such self-referential terms, probably without realizing it).

It is similar to someone turning to the bible for analysis. Your belief system just happens to revolve around a different set of assumptions.

Weah96:


I don't understand your confusion. Deity, as a word, rarely refers to amorphous deities, like my Ford Taurus. When almost anyone in the universe talks about God, they mean a deity who answers prayers.

Prayer means petition. We pray to court. . . .not so?

Judges are human and some are admired, adored and influencial person which qualifies them as Deity.

Weah96:

Other connotations of the word exist, of course, but that is by far the primary one. The reason is simple, there are over 2 billion Jesus people, and almost the same amount of Allah folks.

Are you atheists to primary connotion and believe in the secondary connotion of the word?

finofaya:


Truly, some atheists get rather aggressive about their non belief. But since your grouse is with a particular group of atheists, why do you take issue with atheism as a whole?

Hateists hate the word God. Though they claim to be atheist but are anti-theist.

Atheists disbelieve in the existence of God.

The thread is about definition of God. . . . . . .and would help I and others to know what definition of God atheism covers.

finofaya:

That depends on which of the definitions you are using. Divine is a synonym for excellent. It is also a synonym for supernatural, and for supreme.

Is Nature not excellent?


Can human and animal not be supreme?

You keep on bringing up this supernatural stuff. Supernatural means a phenomena which is natural but cannot be explain with known law of nature.

Human activities can be supernatural. Nature can be supernatural. Which mean divinity is of the gods and the gods are everything including the water you drinks. They are Gods. . . .


Now, do you disbelieve in the existence of God defined as water?

finofaya:

as it stands now, if there is a deity said to exist anywhere, I have more to say in support of its non existence. Here's the definition of deity I'm using: a supernatural being, like a god or goddess, which is worshipped by people who believe that it controls or exerts force over some part of the world.

Let me put knife into the neck of your definition.

You define deity as:

A supernatural being; Eistein is a supernatural being.

God/goddess; going by the definition we have in the dictionary (influencial, admired and adored person), Einstein is a god.

Been wroship by people; I dont need to go far here. I believe you think worship is all about going to church and mosque. Nope. . . .worship is acknowledging worth of something or someone. Einstein is been worshipped even by you.

Force that control part of the world; Einstein took a massive control of science which changes lot of things in our world.

He is a deity.

Do you disbelieve in the existence of God (einstein)?

finofaya:

What exactly is Orisha?

http://mysticcurio.tripod.com/orisha.htm

finofaya:

Everything in nature is superwhat? If you mean supernatural, then what is natural? This is a meaningless statement, really.

There is nothing like supernatural, everything in nature is super enough.

finofaya:

No. It is unexplained, not supernatural.

You might not accept it. But this is what the dictionary have to say

supernatural:

1. (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

The bolded is what I described as unexplainable. If it is explainable, there should be understandable laws of nature which would employed.

Note, science is a body of knowledge. The laws of nature are defines by science too. When a mnifestation defies or goes beyond this body of knowledge, it is called supernatural.

finofaya:

What do you even mean when you say you are atheist?

I am a spiritual atheist.

FOLYKAZE:


Prayer means petition. We pray to court. . . .not so?

Judges are human and some are admired, adored and influencial person which qualifies them as Deity.



Are you atheists to primary connotion and believe in the secondary connotion of the word?

Guy, ee be like say u dey argue for d sake of argument.

How is a court the same as a DEITY? How can a judge be a deity?

Weah96:


Guy, ee be like say u dey argue for d sake of argument.

How is a court the same as a DEITY? How can a judge be a deity?

In this biblical passage Judges are referred to as gods.


God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods

PastorAIO:


In this biblical passage Judges are referred to as gods.


God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods

The bible isn't exactly the model of common sense, or honesty, for that matter.

Weah96:


Guy, ee be like say u dey argue for d sake of argument.

How is a court the same as a DEITY? How can a judge be a deity?

You are the one that said praying to something makes it a Deity.

People pray to the court.


You hate anthromorphical God, while the law is anthromorpise.

Deity is God. God can be influencial, admired and adored person; the judges falls here.

Therefore judges are deity.

PastorAIO:


In this biblical passage Judges are referred to as gods.


God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods

Bible in so many verses call man god.

In exo 22:28, Judges are refer to as Gods.

Weah96:


The bible isn't exactly the model of common sense, or honesty, for that matter.

Oga tell us, Judges are God. Do you disbelieve in the existence of Judges?