Calvinism vs Arminianism - whose view is right? What are the five points of Calvinism and what are the five points of Arminianism? Who is correct?

Suggested answer:

Answer: Calvinism and Arminianism are two systems of theology that attempt to explain the relationship between God's sovereignty and man's responsibility in the matter of salvation. Calvinism is named for John Calvin, a French theologian who lived from 1509-1564. Arminianism is named for Jacobus Arminius, a Dutch theologian who lived from 1560-1609.

Both systems can be summarized with five points. Calvinism holds to the total depravity of man while Arminianism holds to partial depravity. Total depravity states that every aspect of humanity is tainted by sin; therefore, human beings are unable to come to God on their own accord. Partial depravity states that every aspect of humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that human beings are unable to place faith in God of their own accord. Note - classical Arminianism rejects "partial depravity" and holds a view very close to Calvinistic "total depravity."

Calvinism includes the belief that election is unconditional, while Arminianism believes in conditional election. Unconditional election is the view that God elects individuals to salvation based entirely on His will, not on anything inherently worthy in the individual. Conditional election states that God elects individuals to salvation based on His foreknowledge of who will believe in Christ unto salvation, thereby on the condition that the individual chooses God.

Calvinism sees the atonement as limited, while Arminianism sees it as unlimited. This is the most controversial of the five points. Limited atonement is the belief that Jesus only died for the elect. Unlimited atonement is the belief that Jesus died for all, but that His death is not effectual until a person receives Him by faith.

Calvinism includes the belief that God’s grace is irresistible, while Arminianism says that an individual can resist the grace of God. Irresistible grace argues that when God calls a person to salvation, that person will inevitably come to salvation. Resistible grace states that God calls all to salvation, but that many people resist and reject this call.

Calvinism holds to perseverance of the saints while Arminianism holds to conditional salvation. Perseverance of the saints refers to the concept that a person who is elected by God will persevere in faith and will not permanently deny Christ or turn away from Him. Conditional salvation is the view that a believer in Christ can, of his/her own free will, turn away from Christ and thereby lose salvation. Note - many Arminians deny "conditional salvation" and instead hold to "eternal security."

So, in the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, who is correct? It is interesting to note that in the diversity of the body of Christ, there are all sorts of mixtures of Calvinism and Arminianism. There are five-point Calvinists and five-point Arminians, and at the same time three-point Calvinists and two-point Arminians. Many believers arrive at some sort of mixture of the two views. Ultimately, it is our view that both systems fail in that they attempt to explain the unexplainable. Human beings are incapable of fully grasping a concept such as this. Yes, God is absolutely sovereign and knows all. Yes, human beings are called to make a genuine decision to place faith in Christ unto salvation. These two facts seem contradictory to us, but in the mind of God they make perfect sense.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html

Define both.

starlingslimnet:
Define both.

Simply put, Calvinism is the belief that a believer cannot lose salvation while Arminianism is the belief that they can.

5solas:

Simply put, Calvinism is the belief that a believer cannot lose salvation while Arminianism is the belief that they can.

If that is it then I shall say in simple explanatory languages: One can loose salvation if he refute his belief in Christ.This alone is the only way you cab lose your salvation; Denying Jesus is the Christ.

It is sad that someone can believe that an "elect" can't lose his calling.

starlingslimnet:


Define both.

Check the OP for your answer.

5solas:


Simply put, Calvinism is the belief that a believer cannot lose salvation while Arminianism is the belief that they can.

Precisely.

starlingslimnet:


If that is it then I shall say in simple explanatory languages: One can loose salvation if he refute his belief in Christ.This alone is the only way you cab lose your salvation; Denying Jesus is the Christ.

Well said.

starlingslimnet:
If that is it then I shall say in simple explanatory languages: One can loose salvation if he refute his belief in Christ.This alone is the only way you cab lose your salvation; Denying Jesus is the Christ.

And such denial is not necessarily verbal but can be seen in works! See Titus 1:16 and 2 Timothy 3:5

Scholar8200:
And such denial is not necessarily verbal but can be seen in works! See Titus 1:16 and 2 Timothy 3:5

As far as Salvation is concerned it's Verbal.You confess with your mouth not with your works so you deny with your mouth and not your work.

starlingslimnet:
As far as Salvation is concerned it's Verbal.You confess with your mouth not with your works so you deny with your mouth and not your work.

Do read the references quoted. When you've done so, decide whose words/Words supersedes. You can also see 2 Corinth 13:5 and 2 Peter 1: 9,5-8

Scholar8200:
Do read the references quoted. When you've done so, decide whose words/Words supersedes. You can also see 2 Corinth 13:5 and 2 Peter 1: 9,5-8

Quoting Scripture is not the issue understanding them is but am not in the mood of explaining Scriptures tonight. Christ said whoever denies me before men I will deny before my Father and the Holy Angels and whoever acknowledges me before men I will acknowledge before my Father and His Holy angels. These are the words of Christ saying only one way will you loose your Salvation denying the Son of Man that you don't believe he is the Christ. If you believe it's by work and not by Faith so be it.

Calvinism is more accurate of course. Arminianism is a damnable heresy.

JMAN05:
It is sad that someone can believe that an "elect" can't lose his calling.

Are there any elect in hell?

An2elect2:
Calvinism is more accurate of course. Arminianism is a damnable heresy.

My dear neither is. Since we deny freewill and teach God is sovereign in salvation by election and predestination, we are often accused of being calvinists.

Scholar8200:
And such denial is not necessarily verbal but can be seen in works! See Titus 1:16 and 2 Timothy 3:5

The elect cannot be lost nor separated from the purpose of God in salvation( John 6:38-39, Romans 8:28-39).

ABDULADINO:
The elect cannot be lost nor separated from the purpose of God in salvation( John 6:38-39, Romans 8:28-39).

And what was the purpose of the command to give all diligence to make your calling and election sure in 2 Peter 1:10?

ABDULADINO:
My dear neither is. Since we deny freewill and teach God is sovereign in salvation by election and predestination, we are often accused of being calvinists.

Ok dear.

Though I am not a Calvinist myself, i found most of its points are consistent with the scripture. However, will defend my faith in the name of Christ rather than Calvin/calvinism, because i was taught by Christ Himself.

starlingslimnet:
Quoting Scripture is not the issue understanding them is but am not in the mood of explaining Scriptures tonight. Christ said whoever denies me before men I will deny before my Father and the Holy Angels and whoever acknowledges me before men I will acknowledge before my Father and His Holy angels. These are the words of Christ saying only one way will you loose your Salvation denying the Son of Man that you don't believe he is the Christ. If you believe it's by work and not by Faith so be it.

No problem. For record purposes:
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God but in works they deny Him...

Scholar8200:
And what was the purpose of the command to give all diligence to make your calling and election sure in 2 Peter 1:10?

Lol, open your eyes. That scripture is not talking about conditional salvation based upon man using inherent ability to perform conditions for it. Typical arminianism.

The Holy Spirit's work in applying salvation through regeneration is effectual and sure, for without Him we can do nothing.

Paul was the chief of sinners,God apprehended him and he never lost his salvation..his famous mantraa was " I can do ALL things through CHRIST WHO STRENGHTENS ME" ( phil 4:13).

Time will fail to mention Abraham who lied that his wife was his sister, he never lost his salvation.

Samson the fornicator did not miss it.

Lot the barren without works didn't miss it to...

All these few examples were preserved by the grace of God and His faithfulness...not theirs..many more examples abound in scriptures...

An2elect2:


Ok dear.

Though I am not a Calvinist myself, i found most of its points are consistent with the scripture. However, will defend my faith in the name of Christ rather than Calvin/calvinism, because i was taught by Christ Himself.

True..Let God's word be true and every man's be false.

JMAN05:
It is sad that someone can believe that an "elect" can't lose his calling.

if the elect is automatically save that make him no enemy of the devil, so if
predestined, WHY BEWEAR ?(1peter 5:

ABDULADINO:
Lol, open your eyes. That scripture is not talking about conditional salvation based upon man using inherent ability to perform conditions for it. Typical arminianism.

Then explain why Jesus and the Apostles called men to repent and believe the Gospel. Also explain why Jesus said He that believes shall be saved and he that believes not shall be damned. Not forgetting the passage 2 Peter 1:10
So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away.
The work there mentioned is a work of faith! else that faith is vain/dead!

The Holy Spirit's work in applying salvation through regeneration is effectual and sure, for without Him we can do nothing.

without our initial and persevering faith, He can do nothing in/for us as regards salvation:

Mark 6:5
And because of their unbelief, he couldn't do any miracles among them except to place his hands on a few sick people and heal them.

Likewise the miracle of the New Birth can only be revealed and preserved in us by Faith. Remember Jesus kept saying," thy faith has saved thee"

1 Peter 1:5
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Both are needed if we will be preserved. The One is constant because God never changes, the other (highlighted red) must be renewed daily because man being a free moral agent will not be kept against his will.

Paul was the chief of sinners,God apprehended him and he never lost his salvation..his famous mantraa was " I can do ALL things through CHRIST WHO STRENGHTENS ME" ( phil 4:13).

Christ strengthens me while I cleave to Him by faith! Paul also said to some of his converts, "you are fallen from grace" and to others, "by faith you stand" and to another group, " let him that thinks he stands TAKE HEED lest he FALL" meaning he realised that we had a role of faith to play in all diligence!

As regards the OT saints, as far back as the time of Moses here is what God said:

Exodus 32:33
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.

Meaning his name was there before it was blotted out!

Jesus voiced the same thing in Revelation 3:4,5 regarding those in Sardis who were living holy lives that He would not blot out their names:

4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Implying that if they fail to continue that way, their names will be blotted out!!!

Scholar8200:
No problem. For record purposes:
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God but in works they deny Him...

Mixing something up: Salvation And Backsliding; When you sin you are backsliding and that as the Scripture imply can be forgiven but denying Jesus is not the Christ cannot be forgiven because that is Sin against the Holy Spirit. You lose your Salvation when you deny Jesus is the Christ and you gain Salvation by confessing Jesus is the Christ.

Scholar8200:
Then explain why Jesus and the Apostles called men to repent and believe the Gospel.

They are called to repent from their ubelief that Jesus is Christ and believe in him and thus receive the Holy Spirit who is Salvation himself

Also explain why Jesus said He that believes shall be saved and he that believes not shall be damned. Not forgetting the passage 2 Peter 1:10
So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away.
The work there mentioned is a work of faith! else that faith is vain/dead!

work of Faith are as expressed from vs 3-9 are mainly the teachings of Christ and not the commandments note vs 8 "The knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" for more understanding on God's righteousness see this thread www.nairaland.com/2551735/fundamentals-teachings-christ-every-christain[/quote]



Exodus 32:33

33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.

Sin against the Son of man will be forgiven. God said if a wicked man( one who reject Christ and His teachings) turn from his work (unbelief) I will forgive that man. To interpret a Scripture you must have understanding of all Scriptures.

Scholar8200:
Then explain why Jesus and the Apostles called men to repent and believe the Gospel. Also explain why Jesus said He that believes shall be saved and he that believes not shall be damned. Not forgetting the passage 2 Peter 1:10
So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Do these things, and you will never fall away.
The work there mentioned is a work of faith! else that faith is vain/dead!

God preserves His elect, but He does not make them persevere in faith. Faith may be weak and even lost at times by the elect, yet God is faithful.His faith is the Basis of their preservation..i have given you examples of Abraham, Lot, samson and Paul..Like someone earlier told you it is not by quoting chunk of scriptures. It is by understanding it. To say sin will take away eternal life is a satanic lie that is no where found in scriptures. There is the definite possiblity of God's elect backsliding into sin and having their faith overthrown but not losing eternal life.

without our initial and persevering faith, He can do nothing in/for us as regards salvation:

Mark 6:5
And because of their unbelief, he couldn't do any miracles among them except to place his hands on a few sick people and heal them.

Likewise the miracle of the New Birth can only be revealed and preserved in us by Faith. Remember Jesus kept saying," thy faith has saved thee"

1 Peter 1:5
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Both are needed if we will be preserved. The One is constant because God never changes, the other (highlighted red) must be renewed daily because man being a free moral agent will not be kept against his will.

Christ strengthens me while I cleave to Him by faith! Paul also said to some of his converts, "you are fallen from grace" and to others, "by faith you stand" and to another group, " let him that thinks he stands TAKE HEED lest he FALL" meaning he realised that we had a role of faith to play in all diligence!

Still mixing Law and grace. The believer is urged to serve NOT to keep salvation, because it is a secure possession as a GIFT from God( 2 cor 5:14). To fall away is not to fall from salvation but from accurate bible doctrine. Faith in your faith is more profane( Romans 9:15-16).
Fallen from grace isn't talking about earning or maintaining your salvation through some conformity of the Law. Paul makes it clear in Galatians 5:4 that those who seek to be justified by the Law have "fallen from grace" and have been severed from Christ. You better trust God's promises and believe that Jesus died for all your sins, regardless of YOUR ABILITY to live up to the standards of the Law.

As regards the OT saints, as far back as the time of Moses here is what God said:

Exodus 32:33
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.

Meaning his name was there before it was blotted out!

Then Moses would have been in hell then since he disobeyed God and couldn't enter the land of promise.Not forgeting he told Moses that i would have mercy on whom i havee mercy and i will have compassion on whom i have compassion( Exodus 33:19) re echoed by Paul in the NT( Romans 9:15-16) It does not, therefore DEPENDS ON MAN'S DESIRE OR EFFORT, but on God's mercy.

Jesus voiced the same thing in Revelation 3:4,5 regarding those in Sardis who were living holy lives that He would not blot out their names:

4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Implying that if they fail to continue that way, their names will be blotted out!!!

Jesus never said he would blot out the names of those who fall... He said OVERCOME...we are overcomers and have been given authority to "overcome all the power of the enemy.

starlingslimnet:
Mixing something up: Salvation And Backsliding; When you sin you are backsliding and that as the Scripture imply can be forgiven but denying Jesus is not the Christ cannot be forgiven because that is Sin against the Holy Spirit.

Can you back up your statements from the Word? Matthew 12:32 refutes your statement there:

Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Provided he repents. But let's get back to the point of the thread.

You lose your Salvation when you deny Jesus is the Christ and you gain Salvation by confessing Jesus is the Christ.

You get saved when you BELIEVE with the heart and confess. Now that faith gives you access to grace Romans 5:1-3, and grace empowers you to live a life pleasing to God.
Now when we have the profession without the evidence of the power of Grace in our lives then we are deceiving ourselves . That is when Christ is denied by our works as Titus 1:16'

starlingslimnet:
They are called to repent from their ubelief that Jesus is Christ and believe in him and thus receive the Holy Spirit who is Salvation himself

Meaning we have a role to play in appropriating that Salvation thus provided and our preservation rests on the basis of faith!

work of Faith are as expressed from vs 3-9 are mainly the teachings of Christ and not the commandments note vs 8 "The knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" for more understanding on God's righteousness see this thread www.nairaland.com/2551735/fundamentals-teachings-christ-every-christain

The sermon on the mount are also part of Christ's teachings too! And true grace enables us, by faith, to obey!

Exodus 32:33
33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. Sin against the Son of man will be forgiven. God said if a wicked man( one who reject Christ and His teachings) turn from his work (unbelief) I will forgive that man.
To interpret a Scripture you must have understanding of all Scriptures.

Yes! Forgiveness is dependent on repentance or turning from sin and unbelief. Meaning after we have been forgiven and our names are in the Book, we cannot toy with sin and expect that our names will not be blotted out. And if after turning from unbelief he remains wicked in word and deed, then his faith is vain!

We cannot discuss Bible without quoting copiously therefrom else we fall into deception saying what we think is written!

ABDULADINO:
God preserves His elect, but He does not make them persevere in faith. Faith may be weak and even lost at times by the elect, yet God is faithful.His faith is the Basis of their preservation.

Why is faith necessary in the first place?

There is the definite possiblity of God's elect backsliding into sin and having their faith overthrown but not losing eternal life.

Many beliefs today are popular because they appeal to our weakness rather than because they are biblical. Such beliefs include spiritual justifications for materialism, theological exemptions from suffering tribulation, and even justifications for not sharing our faith with others. The idea that someone who professes conversion will share eternal life even if they do not persevere as believers in Christ is another belief that is comforting—and dangerously~~~>Dr Craig Keener

ABDULADINO:
Are there any elect in hell?

Yes. But if ur question is whether an "elect" can lose salvation. Yes is the answer.

ABDULADINO:
God preserves His elect, but He does not make them persevere in faith. Faith may be weak and even lost at times by the elect, yet God is faithful.His faith is the Basis of their preservation

Throw more light on the highlighted; you appear to be contradicting yourself there! Or are you saying He preserves them as long as they continue in the faith just as 2 Peter 1:10 exhorts them to?

..i have given you examples of Abraham, Lot, samson and Paul..Like someone earlier told you it is not by quoting chunk of scriptures. It is by understanding it. To say sin will take away eternal life is a satanic lie that is no where found in scriptures.

We must quote scriptures if we wont be deceived, sin brings separation from God, the Source of Life. That is why James 1:15 (another scripture ) was written to believers:
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
James 1:15

Note the highlighted!

There is the definite possiblity of God's elect backsliding into sin and having their faith overthrown but not losing eternal life.

This is," a satanic lie that is no where found in scriptures." Now does this assure Ananias, Sapphira, Hymenaeus, Philetus, Judas Iscariot etc of eternal life? What then does such 'overcome'? Your statement encourages possessionof a form of godliness but denying the power thereof!
Was Paul then mistaken when he wrote thus:
18 For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.
Philippians 3:18-20
Was he referring to sinners here?NO. he was referring to believers in Philippi who as it were, were following the statement you made!

What? Jesus Christ is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle and what are you advocating here?!!!

Still mixing Law and grace. The believer is urged to serve NOT to keep salvation, because it is a secure possession as a GIFT from God( 2 cor 5:14).

Very very strange!
Jude 21
21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

How do we keep ourselves in the love of God? By obeying His commandments John 15:10

Also see Hebrews 5:9
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
He that claims to believe on Him as Lord but does not obey Him deceives himself!

To fall away is not to fall from salvation but from accurate bible doctrine. Faith in your faith is more profane( Romans 9:15-16)

Quite ridiculous statement that one! To fall according to that context is to fall away from grace wherein you were standing by faith!
.

Fallen from grace isn't talking about earning or maintaining your salvation through some conformity of the Law. Paul makes it clear in Galatians 5:4 that those who seek to be justified by the Law have "fallen from grace" and have been severed from Christ. You better trust God's promises and believe that Jesus died for all your sins, regardless of YOUR ABILITY to live up to the standards of the Law.

The righteous standard of the Law is fulfilled in those who believe and believing brings grace by which they walk in the Spirit. If they fail to do this, death follows!

13 For[b] if [/b]you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13

The use of IF means that after believing we have a choice to make, (a condition to fulfill) each having its repercussion for either continuance in Life or death!

If you have been reading my posts, you will understand nothing there suggests saved by good works but saved evidenced by newness of life and good works and failure to continue therein indicates a loss of the faith by which we are saved, that works by love!

Then Moses would have been in hell then since he disobeyed God and couldn't enter the land of promise.

God's Word stands sure! Moses later sought God (Deut 3:23-27) and I believe his disobedience was forgiven but the earthly repercussion of his sin was to be sustained just like David repented after Nathan confronted him and was forgiven but the earthly repercussion of his sin was sustained!

Jesus never said he would blot out the names of those who fall... He said OVERCOME...we are overcomers and have been given authority to "overcome all the power of the enemy.

Indeed you missed the context:
Revelations 3:4,5
4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.

(At the time this was said those people were overcoming the defilement prevalent in that assembly)

5 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels

Meaning overcoming and being victorious by faith is essential if our names will not be blotted out!

Scholar8200:
Meaning we have a role to play in appropriating that Salvation thus provided and our preservation rests on the basis of faith!

The sermon on the mount are also part of Christ's teachings too! And true grace enables us, by faith, to obey!




Yes! Forgiveness is dependent on repentance or turning from sin and unbelief. Meaning after we have been forgiven and our names are in the Book, we cannot toy with sin and expect that our names will not be blotted out. And if after turning from unbelief he remains wicked in word and deed, then his faith is vain!

We cannot discuss Bible without quoting copiously therefrom else we fall into deception saying what we think is written!

If I get you right you are saying there is a need for Holiness