pilgrim.1:

@KunleOshob,

What justifies your accusations at anybody - whether generalised or personalised?

Well you can call it accusations but the fact remains that millions of christians are being deceived into parting with 10% of their income which is not required of them by the faith they profess. My dear sister as an informed christian i think you should be more interested in correcting this annormally rather than justifying it and covering up for these characters. Called a spade a spade, if a psator willfully deceves his congregation for material benefit and i call him/her a fraud i am certain i am in order.

@KunleOshob,

KunleOshob:

Well you can call it accusations but the fact remains that millions of christians are being deceived into parting with 10% of their income which is not required of them by the faith they profess.

I'm sorry dear sir, but you made the categorical statement that you indeed were making accusations [reminder: "Even when i make accusations,. . " your quote]. I just wanted you to be clear about the fact that you acknowledge your own accusations, which again was the point all along - that is it unfair for you to constantly make these assertive accusations in your obsession against tithes.

Talk about being deceived, I have shown you several times that what you may assume as the status quo in every single case is not actually so. There are many people who actually tithe without being coerced, mandated, cajoled, forced, manipulated, or compelled to do so in any way. I was one of those who strongly opposed tithes until I began to realise that God never once condemned it or set any Christian to legislate or assert the opposite on His behalf. Only when I opened my heart to Him and realised indeed that I possibly might have been wrong, did it occur to me that the attitude of tithe-opposers is unhealthy towards their brethren in tithe in simplicity.

I have often tried to reason with people on this subject, and the first thing I notice is the same thing I was once engaged in: the default position to accuse, slur and castigate others every single time in our misplaced pride that we are telling the "truth". I have since come to know that truth was never committed to us to use against others in such a manner - and that is why I often discourage such attitudes in this matter. It is not as if everybody must be converted to become tithers, for even if the Lord Jesus Christ were to come down Himself and state it as part of our Christian faith, many "Christians" will find reasons to still begrudge or resent this subject!

KunleOshob:

My dear sister as an informed christian i think you should be more interested in correcting this annormally rather than justifying it and covering up for these characters. Called a spade a spade, if a psator willfully deceves his congregation for material benefit and i call him/her a fraud i am certain i am in order.

If I were to call a spade a 'spade' and expose your misconceptions, would you be willing to endure the same? You see, Kunle, I have often stated that truth can be shared without being perjorative to anyone. Why is it that it is sooooooooo hard for tithe-opposers to be simple in sharing their persuasions without seeking to be perjorative towards anyone, whether in a generalised or personal way?

Anyway, if there are anomalies to correct, the first place to begin that correction was in my heart - it began with me, not others. I had to first get rid of the log in my own eyes and erode my prejudices before I could be in a better position to help others. "Help", I said, not slur or malign them. Please go back and see where I have been discussing tithes - with the exception of my response to anonimi once, my attitude has always been to discourage the slobbers against others and state our persuasions in a helpful manner. This is why I have often tried to reason with even you, going often back to Scripture rather than appeal to all sorts of misquotes here and there. I decided to let the matter be; except that any time I see this unhealthy attitude from non-tithers, such have often served as invitation to point out their anomalies.

An example? I have often repeated it every time you asserted it: the 613 laws of Moses that you asserted were repealed by Christ's death. It is sad that while you claim to be passionate about speaking truth, you have never taken the time to sit down and check out the fallacy of that assertion. Should we keep quiet every time you project that false statement while you feel at liberty to be perjorative at other people? Why, Kunle, . . why is it that we as "Christians" are ever so prone these days to defiant disregard for simple truth? If it were true that 613 laws of Moses were repealed by Christ's death, why do we still practise a whole host of them in the new covenant?!?

Would you really desire me to call your spade for what it is? It is very easy to point fingers at others. . but when the same things are pointed out to us, the immediate reaction is to consider them "insults". Kunle, when you make recommendations to other people, think of yourself constantly - it will help you discover the blessing of humility far more than a readiness to justify our own accusations for any reason. Which was why I asked the previous question directly.

Shalom.

@Poster,
I think we should have things in the proper perspective here. When you tithe it is directly to your High Priest Jesus even though physically collected by your pastor (Heb 7:8 ). Tithing is a spiritual thing which activates a spiritual law on your behalf. You're not just dropping your money for a pastor, God has a responsibility to you if you tithe correctly (Mal 3: 8-12).

    Remember that the first person recorded to tithe was Abraham (Gen 14:20). And this tithe was of spoils of war, people/slaves which were assets that could be exchanged for money. And remember also that biblically if you give you will receive, if you sow you will reap (Gen 8:12). So please if you will tithe do it correctly ( TITHE = 10% ).

    As to the issue of before/after tax, I think of it as both tithe and tax being taxes unto different authorities; God and man. So the kind of relationship I have with God makes me give Him priority. As someone said earlier you will have to make up your own mind (and level of faith) on this. It is not by compulsion. It should be by faith that God will bless you beyond your giving or your need.
    But consider this question, if you were to take up a new employment and you were asked how much your previous salary was would you quote pre- or post- tax figures?

    In my personal experience, I noticed an increase in my finances when I started tithing in faith, holding God to His promises. So I increased it from 10% to a higher percentage. It took me a couple of months to adjust but again not too long thereafter I noticed another surge in my income plus a decrease in my expenses    ! Some years after that I increased the percentage I pay monthly again ! That same year I experienced success in something that had eluded me for a while. So many things about tithing in faith but not much time. Suffice it to say it works if done in faith.
    God bless!

SHALOM!

"WHEN THE WISE MAN
POINTS AT THE MOON,
THE FOOL LOOKS AT HIS FINGER!"

. Confucius.

Before you even consider paying TITHES, you should consider WHY you are paying Tithes.

Are you doing it because YOU WANT SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF, or because you LOVE GOD AND HIS MESSENGER?

Do you want to MAXIMIZE the amount of Money you GIVE, or MINIMIZE it?

You are a FOOL for paying Tithes to whosoever you pay Tithes to, because YOU ARE NOT receiving an UNCONTAINABLE BLESSING in Return. As a matter of fact YOU ARE NOT receiving ANY Blessings in Return- or else you would NOT even be THINKING about LESSENING your offering to GOD, and to THE ONE WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO RECEIVE HIS BLESSINGS.

TITHING has at best PSYCHOLOGICAL Value to you.

You probably do not even Tithe at all, but belong to some ANTI-PROTESTANT Gang, that spreads FALSE TEACHINGS to REDUCE or ELIMINATE Offerings to Churches.

Ex-Roman Catholic Priests (Charles Chiniquy and Alberto Rivera) have testified that THEY WERE TRAINED aa Priests and Nuns to INTRODUCE SUGGESTIONS to people to MAKE THEM SIN, and fall into their control.

Isn't that what you are doing?

SHALOM!

dafidixone:


I think it is the duty of the pastor to preach and not to enforce.

BY ALL MEANS- LET US FORGET WHAT YAHSHUA TAUGHT US, AND FOLLOW WHAT "YOU THINK!"

. MATTHEW 18:15-20

15. "Moreover if thy Brother
shall trespass against thee,
go and tell him his fault
between thee and him alone:
if he shall hear thee,
thou hast gained thy Brother.
16. "But if he will not hear thee,
then take with thee one or two more,

'THAT IN THE MOUTH
OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES
EVERY WORD
MAY BE ESTABLISHED.'

17. "And if he shall neglect to hear them,
tell it unto the Church:
but if he neglect to hear the Church,
let him be unto thee
as an Heathen man and a Publican.
18. "Verily I say unto you,

'WHATSOEVER YE SHALL
BIND ON EARTH
SHALL BE BOUND IN HEAVEN:
AND WHATSOEVER YE SHALL
LOOSE ON EARTH
SHALL BE LOOSED IN HEAVEN.'

19. "Again I say unto you,

'THAT IF TWO OF YOU
SHALL AGREE ON EARTH
AS TOUCHING ANY THING
THAT THEY SHALL ASK,
IT SHALL BE DONE FOR THEM
OF MY FATHER
WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.'

20. "For where two or three
are gathered together in my Name,
there am I in the midst of them."

IF ANY CHURCH MEMBER SPOTS ANOTHER CHURCH MEMBER IN VIOLATION OF THE TEACHINGS OF YAHSHUA, IT IS THEIR DUTY TO INFORM THEM SO.

If they reject their correction, they need to come back with one or two others, as witnesses.

If they don't listen to them, the case must be put before THE WHOLE CHURCH.

It is when the whole CHURCH doesn't convince them that they are WRONG, that they need to be TREATED AS AN UNBELIEVER.

Your friend has done well by appreciating that tithe belong to God. You friend must not for whatever reason be upset with her pastor. God forgive her for that.

FIRST OF ALL, PROVE THAT YAHSHUA AUTHORIZED ANYONE TO BE A "PASTOR?"

Is he DEAD, that someone can inherit the mantle of Master and Teacher to HIS CHURCH?

. MATTHEW 23:1-15.

THEN spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his Disciples,
2. Saying,
"The scribes and the Pharisees
sit in Moses' seat:
3. "All therefore whatsoever
they bid you observe,
that observe and do;
but do not ye after their works:
for they say,
and do not.
4. "For they bind heavy burdens
and grievous to be borne,
and lay them on men's shoulders;
but they themselves
will not move them
with one of their fingers.
5. "But all their works
they do for to be seen of men:
they make broad their phylacteries,
and enlarge the borders
of their garments,
6. "And love the uppermost
rooms at feasts,
and the chief seats
in the Synagogues,
7. "And greetings in the markets,
and to be called of men, 'Rabbi, Rabbi.'
8. "But be not ye called Rabbi:
for one is your Master,
even Christ;
and all ye are Brethren.
9. "And call no man your father
upon the Earth:
for One is your Father,
Which is in Heaven.
10. "Neither be ye called masters:
for one is your Master,
even Christ.
11. "But he that is greatest among you
shall be your servant.
12. "And whosoever shall exalt himself
shall be abased;
and he that shall humble himself
shall be exalted.
13. "But woe unto you,
scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites!
For ye shut up the Kingdom of Heaven
against men:
for ye neither go in yourselves,
neither suffer ye
them that are entering
to go in.
14. "Woe unto you,
scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites!
For ye devour widows' houses,
and for a pretence
make long prayer:
therefore ye shall receive
the greater Damnation.
15. "Woe unto you,
scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites!
For ye compass sea and land
to make one proselyte,
and when he is made,
ye make him twofold more
the Child of Hell
than yourselves."

THAT IS WHAT SHOULD BE CHALLENGED FIRST.

God appreciate a cheerful giver.

NO, HE DOESN'T: GOD APPRECIATES A RIGHTEOUS GIVER.

When someone is UNRIGHTEOUS, and gives to some UNJUST STEWARD HERETIC, who OPPOSES The TRUE Gospel, HOW CAN IT POSSIBLY MATTER how "CHEERFUL" they are?

PROVE to us that there is a FASTER ROUTE to ATHEISM than this LEAVEN.OF-THE-PHARISEES Doctrine you just bullshitted us!

People who believe that their CHEERFUL GIVING makes them BELOVED OF GOD have experiences where they SERIOUSLY NEED THE LOVE OF GOD- and they find that THEY DON'T HAVE IT. So THEN they decide that "THERE IS NO GOD- BECAUSE, IF THERE WERE, HE WOULD HAVE LOVED ME, FOR MY CHEERFUL GIVING!"

Whereas, their FAITH IN GOD was not based on THE WORD OF GOD, but on a FALSE DOCTRINE from a FALSE MESSENGER OF GOD, sent to TEST whether or not we would STILL LOVE YAHSHUA if there were an ALTERNATIVE with Signs and Wonders of his own.

. PROVERBS 15:8.

8.The Sacrifice of the Wicked
is an Abomination to the LORD:
but the Prayer of the Upright
is His Delight.

. PROVERBS 21:27.

27. The Sacrifice of the Wicked
is Abomination:
how much more,
when he bringeth it
with a wicked mind?

YAHSHUA SPECIFIED WHOM IT IS THAT GOD LOVES.

. JOHN 14:15-27.

15. "If ye love me,
keep my Commandments.
16. And I will pray The Father,
and He shall give you another Comforter,
that He may abide with you for ever;
17. "Even the Spirit of Truth;
Whom the World cannot receive,
because it seeth him not,
neither knoweth Him:
but ye know Him;
for He dwelleth with you,
and shall be in you.
18. "I will not leave you Comfortless:
I will come to you.
19. "Yet a little while,
and the World seeth me no more;
but ye see me:
because I live,
ye shall live also.
20. At that day ye shall know
that I am in my Father,
and ye in me, and I in you.
21. "He that hath my Commandments,
and keepeth them,
he it is that loveth me:
and he that loveth me
shall be loved of my Father,
and I will love him,
and will manifest myself to him."
22. Judas saith unto him,
not Iscariot,
"Lord, how is it that
thou wilt manifest thyself unto us,
and not unto the World?"
23. Jesus answered and said unto him,
"If a man love me,
He will keep my Words:
and my Father will love him,
and we will come unto him,
and make our abode with him.
24. "He that loveth me not
keepeth not my Sayings:
and the Word which ye hear
is not mine,
but The Father's Which sent me.
25. “These things
have I spoken unto you,
being (yet) present with you.
26. "But The Comforter,
(Which is) The Holy Ghost,
Whom The Father
will send in My Name,
He shall Teach you All Things
and bring all things
to your Remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 “Peace I leave with you;
My Peace I give unto you,
not as the World giveth,
give I unto you.
Let not your heart be troubled,
neither let it be afraid."

NOTICE THAT YOU FIND NOTHING REMOTELY LIKE THAT IN ALL THE TEACHINGS OF PAUL.

He says rather that Christians will be PUNISHED for KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS!

. GALATIANS 5:1-4.

STAND fast therefore in the Liberty
wherewith Christ hath made us free,
and be not entangled again
with the Yoke of Bondage.
2. Behold, I Paul say unto you,

"THAT IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED,
CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING."

3. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised,

"THAT HE IS A DEBTOR
TO DO THE WHOLE LAW."

4. Christ is become of no effect unto you,
whosoever of you are Justified by the Law;
ye are Fallen from Grace.

Tithe is 10% of earn income in whatever form it may be. If your friend bring in 1,600, ordinarily her tithe would be 10% of that amount. Tithe is a business between her and God. She should however look out if there is any traces of devourer on her finances after the payment, I think she should reconsider her pastor's view and make amend.

WHY IS THE TITHE 10%, AND NOT 20%, 30% or some either figure?

I have attempted to educate those capable of learning on this in the past- but found no one.

SHALOM!

KunleOshob:

dafidixone long time , i see you are still spreading this false doctrine of tithes biblical tithes is 10% of the produce of the land which God gave the Israelites and not 10% of income that fraudulent pastors preach today.

@mantraa
Tithing as no place in christianity don't let any man or pastor deceive you.

NOT EVEN IF YOU ARE THE DECEIVER?

. MATTHEW 23:23.

23. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites!
For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin,
and have omitted the weightier matters of the Law,
Judgment, Mercy, and Faith:
these ought ye to have done,
and not to leave the other undone."

. MATTHEW 28:16-20.

16. Then the Eleven Disciples
went away into Galilee,
into a mountain where
Jesus had appointed them.
17. And when they saw him,
they worshipped him:
but some doubted.
18. And Jesus came
and spake unto them,
Saying,
"All Power is given unto me
in Heaven and in Earth.
19. "Go ye therefore,
and Teach all Nations,
baptizing them in
The Name of the Father,
and of The Son,
and of The Holy Ghost:
20. "Teaching them to observe
all things whatsoever
I have Commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto The End of The World."
Amen.

FALSE CHRISTIANS HAVE TO PRETEND NOT TO KNOW THAT YAHSHUA COMNANDED US TO OBSERVE EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD EVER COMMANDED HIS DISCIPLES WHEN HE WAS ON THE EARTH. That is the ONLY Route to CHAOS.

dafidixone:


Your mother sickness could be devourer in operation. Watchout that you do not cross the path of God! Pay your tithe in the right propotion. 10% not negotiable. I am not your pastor I am only telling you the truth. Even if you think your pastor spend your money, I am not spending it.

I wish you mother quick recovery from her sickness.

Lies
The law of tithing is not binding on any Christian. We are not under the Mosaic law.
Tithe simply means 1/0 (one tenth). And there is no commandment that we should pay tithe to the Church. But as Christians, we must be givers. Be it 10%(tithe), 20%, 5% etc. No one is cursed for not giving 10%. That was the covenant God had with the Israelites and we are now under a better covenant with better promises.

Lets Learn Deeper and not just listen to what the mass say.

Thank you

oaroloye:
SHALOM!



NOT EVEN IF YOU ARE THE DECEIVER?

. MATTHEW 23:23.

23. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites!
For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin,
and have omitted the weightier matters of the Law,
Judgment, Mercy, and Faith:
these ought ye to have done,
and not to leave the other undone."

. MATTHEW 28:16-20.

16. Then the Eleven Disciples
went away into Galilee,
into a mountain where
Jesus had appointed them.
17. And when they saw him,
they worshipped him:
but some doubted.
18. And Jesus came
and spake unto them,
Saying,
"All Power is given unto me
in Heaven and in Earth.
19. "Go ye therefore,
and Teach all Nations,
baptizing them in
The Name of the Father,
and of The Son,
and of The Holy Ghost:
20. "Teaching them to observe
all things whatsoever
I have Commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto The End of The World."
Amen.

FALSE CHRISTIANS HAVE TO PRETEND NOT TO KNOW THAT YAHSHUA COMNANDED US TO OBSERVE EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD EVER COMMANDED HIS DISCIPLES WHEN HE WAS ON THE EARTH. That is the ONLY Route to CHAOS.

My brother,
Jesus came to fulfill the law because He was under the law. So He can't stop anyone from obeying the law.
And the scripture you quoted was not even to the disciples but to the Pharisees.
The law of tithing was part of the Mosaic law thus it is not binding on any Christians.
We must give to the Church. Be it a tithe (10%) , 5%, 8% etc. Just any amount you purpose in your heart. There is nothing like paying 10% compulsorily.

grandjedi:
    @Poster,
I think we should have things in the proper perspective here. When you tithe it is directly to your High Priest Jesus even though physically collected by your pastor (Heb 7:8 ). Tithing is a spiritual thing which activates a spiritual law on your behalf. You're not just dropping your money for a pastor, God has a responsibility to you if you tithe correctly (Mal 3: 8-12).

    Remember that the first person recorded to tithe was Abraham (Gen 14:20). And this tithe was of spoils of war, people/slaves which were assets that could be exchanged for money. And remember also that biblically if you give you will receive, if you sow you will reap (Gen 8:12). So please if you will tithe do it correctly ( TITHE = 10% ).

    As to the issue of before/after tax, I think of it as both tithe and tax being taxes unto different authorities; God and man. So the kind of relationship I have with God makes me give Him priority. As someone said earlier you will have to make up your own mind (and level of faith) on this. It is not by compulsion. It should be by faith that God will bless you beyond your giving or your need.
    But consider this question, if you were to take up a new employment and you were asked how much your previous salary was would you quote pre- or post- tax figures?

    In my personal experience, I noticed an increase in my finances when I started tithing in faith, holding God to His promises. So I increased it from 10% to a higher percentage. It took me a couple of months to adjust but again not too long thereafter I noticed another surge in my income plus a decrease in my expenses    ! Some years after that I increased the percentage I pay monthly again ! That same year I experienced success in something that had eluded me for a while. So many things about tithing in faith but not much time. Suffice it to say it works if done in faith.
    God bless!

I realised you quoted Malachi 3. Let me tell you the truth. The whole book of Malachi was directed to the Israelites because they were not obeying the law of tithing. Tithing was part of their laws but Christians are not under the Mosaic law which includes tithing. So no Christian has been commanded to pay a tenth of his or her income to God or the poor etc.
But we can just observe that the tithe (10%) is very powerful because Abraham and Jacob paid a tithe (10%) even though they werent commanded to do so. And when God instituted the law He still used a tithe.
So my point here is, we must give what we purpose in our heart or based on how God has blessed us. Be it 10% .. 20% ... 100% .. 8% ... 5% etc.
Note that only 10% is called a tithe.
So when you are really blessed financially, i would encourage you to give offerings, alms, to preachers, support the work of God with a tithe or even more than a tithe. But you can also give less than a tithe (10%) and no one will curse you



Shalom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5pohoxXcV0






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycWX105K1rU

She's paying double tithes!

The tithe is the tax arrangement in ancient Israel so if you're not in ancient Israel and the country where you live collects tax from you then there's no reason paying tithes anymore!