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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Evolution And The Seagull Dance. (13102 Views)
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Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by 2prexios: 3:01pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
AlfaSeltzer:And if I predict the name of the first woman Seagull correctly, you'll call me a Paleontologist. Will you? I don't trust you anyway. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by 2prexios: 6:52pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
Such a bright piece. I've always wonder, this is the farthest point in the history of history in cosmic age. And the tenet of evolution is, change is constant. From classical source of evolution, matter is either evolving or disintegrating. Centuries gone by, has evolution shy away from nature? Not to worry, evolution has gone off nature and is now on textbook, fossils & minds, aha. sinequanon:Such a bright piece. I've always wonder, this is the farthest point in the history of history in cosmic age. And the tenet of evolution is, change is constant. From classical source of evolution, matter is either evolving or disintegrating. Centuries gone by, has evolution shy away from nature? Not to worry, evolution has gone off nature and is now on textbook, fossils & minds, aha. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by AnalogTechno: 7:17pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
sinequanon: Google evolution of behaviour. Nice video about the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy8Yy9nyi74 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by DeepSight(m): 7:57pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
@ Sinequanon. Err. . . well, how do I put this. . . maybe you should start backwards. Make the point first, then assert the argument that supports it. Such that the point you are driving at is clear. I say this because some of the times I have tried to discuss evolution in the past, the first thing that people like Evil Brain did was to brand me a Christian. Such amazing leaps of joy, no? The man, and his ilk, would not stop to know that I actually believe in Evolution. But as you said, some people have problems distinguishing an argument from the conclusions derived. Secondly, let it occur to you that so long as you dare to point out ANYTHING in the Theory of Evolution that seems amiss, some of these people will consider you ignorant and uneducated forever. It is, for them - scientific apologists that they claim to be - yet still a cardinal sin to question any aspect of the theory of evolution - or the question whether, by itself, it may account for life as we know it. Notwithstanding the fact that questioning theories is the bedrock of science. Finally, evaluate carefully in your mind whether the excercise you are embarking on is a worthwhile use of your time and intellectual energies. People will be people. The religious will be religious. The irreligious will be irreligious. The logical will be logical and the illogical will be illogical. One fine day some logical persons will see logic in the illogic of the supposed illogical people, and some illogical people will see logic in the logic of the logical. This will happen not by any length of arguments, or any erudition, or any extent of the articulate quality of one's treatise - but simply by what people experience as they go along in life. It will be extremely hard to convince me that I did not have a dream last night about one matter or the other. It may be true that I had the dream. However I will never be able to prove anything about the dream to you. It is not a matter for argument. It is a matter for experience. In summary, what am I saying? If you wish to argue these things, carry on - it can be an enjoyable pastime. Do, for the sake of those who will misunderstand your perspective, state that perspective before debating its merits. However consider closely whether you should bother at all. Life is a journey that metes out its lessons gradually to all we journeying students. If there are people who believe that life is a meaningless accident in a meaningless universe, that's up to them. There is something that Jayriginal says that I like: "It is what it is", regardless of any amount of arguments. In other words, if God exists, arguments here will not wish God out of existence. If God does not exist, arguments here cannot wish God into existence. We will just argue. The great and unfathomable reality out there will remain what it is. Forever beyond we minuscule presumptuous creatures. Peace. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by AlfaSeltzer(m): 8:01pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
^^^black man's stuppidity. Next, you'll be forcing your children to believe in your dreams because they can't prove you didn't have it. And you make laws based on that dream. Then you tell them not to discuss it because it serves no purpose. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by DeepSight(m): 8:04pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by AlfaSeltzer(m): 8:05pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
DeepSight: I know. You don't have any other choice. Do you? |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by DeepSight(m): 8:05pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
AlfaSeltzer: How do you know I plan to have children? Presumptions, you see? Breathe deeply and relax my friend. Nothing here is that serious. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 8:12pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
DeepSight: ...etc. etc. spot on with the rest of your post, imo. I am not trying to convince Evil Brain and his ilk. I am hoping intelligent folk join in and contribute intelligent opinions and show respect for other intelligent opinions. Who cares about Evil Brain, and kids, like paetton? All opinions are fine, imo, but brainwashed people with half-baked ideas who take it upon themselves to "educate" people, should expect to get crushed under the weight of their own stupidity and hypocrisy. But I'd rather have a respectful discussion with intelligent folk, whether or not we agree. 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 8:15pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
AnalogTechno: Sorry. You are going to have to explain what you think is intelligent in this video, because there is no way I will sit through an hour of this man's shortsightedness. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by AnalogTechno: 8:20pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
sinequanon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljv1fO4qrIw |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by EvilBrain1(m): 11:38pm On Nov 27, 2014 |
sinequanon: tl;dw: An animal's behaviour is just another manifestation of its phenotype as ultimately determined by its genes. Behaviour evolves just like every other aspect of living things and that includes human behaviour. Evolutionary psychology is a thing. That shortsighted person you don't have time for happens to be one of the originators of and formost experts on the subject. His books The Selfish Gene and The Extended Phenotype are what made him one of the most respected biologists currently living. You should try reading one or both of them you want to have your mind blown. Don't worry, they were written long before he made a hobby out of hurting religious people's feelings. Also, you're not going to learn much with that "I won't sit through this shortsightedness" attitude. You should never dismiss an idea without first understanding it and and giving it a fair chance to convince you. All great truths started as fringe ideas. Lord knows how much time I've spent reading and listening to creationists, Christian and Muslim apologists, fringe political theorists ISIS supporters and other crackpots looking for kernels of truth. I never argue against an ideology until I have at least a fair understanding of it. I guess that's the difference between us. Because you clearly don't understand evolution and are unwilling to try. 2 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 12:08am On Nov 28, 2014 |
EvilBrain1: This is the poster who came up with the most ridiculous contribution I have encountered on Nairaland, and he is back to "educate" us further, LOL! He is educating us all on who Richard Dawkins is, because none of us know who he is (only EvilBrain1), or his theory of memes and other stupidity that models people as automatons with only an illusion of choice. And this video is the first one any of us have come across, so EvilBrain is here to educate us on who Dawkins "happens to be" and what books he has written. What would we do without EvilBrain to explain all this to us. The reason I will not waste time on this Dawkins video is precisely because I have seen him lecture, seen him debate, heard his hypotheses, etc. He is not a foremost biologist. He is famous for popularizing genetics and talking about spaghetti monsters and flying teapots. His popular books made him famous, not his scholarship. He is an intellectual lightweight. Time and again I have seen him blown away, with his audience having more intellectual capacity than he has. He has spawned a mass of vocal, but dim, followers who regurgitate science at the most superficial level. That is his main legacy. Many of his peers have called him an embarrassment. 3 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by tpia5: 12:13am On Nov 28, 2014 |
How exactly is that evolution? |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 12:15am On Nov 28, 2014 |
^^^ The great folly of people arguing blindly against something they don't understand. And dubbs himself intelligent. I personally don't know all the nittt gritty of how every species evolved ever single trait. And I don't ever need to, considering that it is not my career. But I do understand the fundamental ideas. This fellow has never made an intelligent argument for anything here on this forum. At least he has confessed that his objective is to deride people of no god-faith. And dubbs himself intelligent. 3 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by EvilBrain1(m): 2:12am On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: I'm seeing a pattern here. Before, you attacked me for mentioning Jesus and using the term brain touch while completely failing to address the plain logic in my first post. Now you're abusing me for telling you who Dawkins is while ignoring the fact that the video you don't have time to watch has destroyed your core thesis within its first 7 minutes. Your insults and ad hominems have failed to mask your willful ignorance and inability to grasp core concepts. But I guess I'm just wasting my time posting this since you're only going to respond by insulting me again like a mindless clockwork mechanism. This whole discussion is just flying over your head. 1 Like |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by tpia5: 2:17am On Nov 28, 2014 |
plaetton: What are you saying? Is your post affirmative or negatory? |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 3:03am On Nov 28, 2014 |
tpia5:I meant to say in a discussion or debate, one is supposed to take a position , and then make a coherent and intelligent argument for that position, or conversely, or can dismantle an opponents argument by suggesting a more reasonable and plausible argument. In this way, everyone gets to learn something. But coming out always to criticize terminologies and nomenclatures while tactfully avoiding a meaningful and sincere contributions to the topic is disingenuous, to say the least. 2 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by tpia5: 4:38am On Nov 28, 2014 |
In other words, simple english is not your forte. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Nobody: 10:23am On Nov 28, 2014 |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by DeepSight(m): 10:31am On Nov 28, 2014 |
^^^ O you will... hopefully today... been busy, my apologies. I hope you are well. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by UyiIredia(m): 11:29am On Nov 28, 2014 |
EvilBrain1: Storytelling based on wishful thinking. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 1:23pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
UyiIredia: The dude is now pretending that he was using humour. He was clearly being serious. In retrospect, he now realizes how utterly daft his explanation is. But it was accepted by davien, plaetton and Dapo777, who then tried to cover up their embarrassing gullibility by pretending that it was all a bit of a joke. It is hypocrisy like this that is a debate killer. I suppose they felt they had no choice after they'd exposed their total lack of critical faculty. They preferred to look like hypocrites than like fools, and ended up looking like both! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by wiegraf: 1:31pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Maybe I shouldn't be the one pointing this out to you, but I think you have some issues man Raging and obfuscating even more than Uyi, who readily admits he obfuscates on purpose. lol Goot times 2 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 1:50pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
wiegraf: Anybody can read the thread and see what happened. wiegraf: I think you added the bit in bold, later. At least you were honest enough to finally admit that evilbrain posted nonsense. Or are you one of the hypocrites who is pretending that it was "deliberate" nonsense? And I noticed you belatedly crossed out your key objection. Why don't you think before you type? Then you don't end up hypocritically trying to defend rubbish. At least you learned about something here -- avian intelligence. The fact that you wrote "evolved" in italics shows that you made the same stupid mistake as the rest, in reading your own confusion into the OP. Yes, the intelligence evolved, so what is your point? That wasn't the question.The OP is asking how the dance evolved - not whether evolution happens. I believe that the evolution of intelligence played a part. Evolution of intelligence is not an issue in this thread, because the behaviour/reward cycle is easily explained. Evilbrain said that the gulls have no idea what they are doing. Three hypocrites rushed forward to tell us that his explanation was the same as mine./he was joking blah blah blah. The problem with debating with people like you is that you don't read properly, then you project all your own confusion, but you don't write down your confused assumptions, so we have guess what your confused point is. Then, when you discover it is your own confusion, you either blame the op for "obfuscation"/"being disingenuous" and then you launch into a predictable cycle of hypocrisy, when everything is there in black and white. Why don't you just stop to read carefully first, and try to come up with a measured response? That would avoid all your embarrassment. And what is your last point about? Some sort of complex to try to establish an aura of scholarship? Because I don't see any connection between it and the OP. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by plaetton: 1:52pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Same recurring problem. If topics or statements are not phrased to your exact likings, then its wrong for everyone. You are whimsical, narrow minded, deluded with your own vocabulary, and so far, incapable of articulating a coherent argument on your own. This makes you a coward who is afraid to stick his neck out, and only good at taking sniper shots without engaging in the battle. Talking about hypocrisy, if you had spent as much time rubbishing the many absurd propositions being hawked hourly by Nairaland religio- tards, then we would at least say that you are neutral and objective observer. Back to evilbrain's explanations. Now, like I said before, if you were knowledgeable about the theory of evolution, you would have realized that his explanation was a brilliant way to break down and explain a complex set of processes in a way any high school student can understand. I understood this process in exactly similar manner while in high school. Atheists are not responsible for your educational deficiencies. Go out and study and learn what you do not understand. Stop depending on atheists to educate you. 2 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 1:57pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
See, wiegraf. That is why I call plaetton a hypocrite. What you are calling "the rubbish evilbrain wrote", he is calling "brilliant". Please don't join in the hypocrisy. |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by Nobody: 2:15pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: So what you need to know now is how the dance evolved? Not whether evolution/intelligence caused the dance? |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 2:39pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
Dapo777: Tell me, how could this sentence in the OP... The question is, using The Theory of Evolution, explain how the seagulls developed this ability. ..be asking IF evolution caused the dance. Are we speaking the same language, here? The confusion is coming from you. The question is very clear. And it doesn't rule intelligence in or out, as an agent. Involvement of intelligence does not mean the dance did not evolve (and the intelligence, too). |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by timmy2409(m): 2:39pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Hey there. Looks like your sarcasm detector is broken 6 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by EvilBrain1(m): 2:42pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
sinequanon: Okay then, I confess. I wasn't using humour. Everything I said was completely serious and boring and straightlaced including the bird babies with brain touch, the tap dancing seagulls and the stupìd Christians who think everything happens because of Jesus. Now please go through my first post again and tell us how and why the process I described is not a plausible explanation for how the behaviour in question emerged. Please try and focus on the core logic and not irrelevancies like my choice of terminologies. And please be very specific in your criticism. You can get as technical as you like, don't worry. It's obvious that you're far smarter than all of us but we'll use Google to try to keep up you your vast intellect. Also, its hard for me to ignore the way you continue to dodge the Dawkins video AnalogTechno posted. Like I said before, your core thesis, that the birds somehow know what they are doing, was completely destroyed within the first 7 or 8 minutes. Is it that you can't spare 7 minutes to show that you're not a closed minded intellectual coward? For such a brilliant mind as your self to be running away from a lightweight like Prof. Dawkins is disappointing. 5 Likes |
Re: Evolution And The Seagull Dance. by sinequanon: 2:51pm On Nov 28, 2014 |
timmy2409: Nope. He believed what he wrote, but I can see why you believe no one could be so daft. As I said on page 1, it was such a daft post, the only explanation seemed to be sarcasm, but if you follow through, you will see he is serious. Don't be fooled by his later climb down. This is plaetton's response. He called it "common sense" (he has now joined the "sarcasm camp" ) Okay, now that you have explained it in the simplest way that anyone with minimum common sense can understand, do you really think it registered? More sarcasm? Here is evilbrain's response before he joined the "sarcasm camp".. I'm going to have to ask you to go through my post and list, very specifically, all the things I wrote that you found stupìd. I suppose you think that was more sarcasm, too, LOL. Dude, it is as I said. His post was sooooo dumb, that all he can now do is claim humour. The point to note is that the dumb explanation fooled plaetton, davien, and a some others! |
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