Kay17:


You keep shifting your arguments. For every sphere of life, there is always a woman in it; but the examples are not proofs to you but exceptions. If I asked for the men in Ayn Rand's class, you wouldn't provide one. You would fall back on some statistics limited to STEM, and blame women's inherent incompetence which the 'exceptions' in your view can not defeat. And when the true reasons for the low stats emerge, you would blame marriage and wombs of women.

this argument has not shifted one bit. even a dog knows STEM courses are the hardest in the academic sphere of life. one needs a good brain to thrive there & i have proven to you that women have been found wanting when it comes to tasks that require a large amount of brain power.

there's no true excuse why women cannot pull their weights. sėx harassment is only limited to developing countries - not in the developed world. leaving their jobs to raise families is also a moot point. a chunky proportion of this women never even attempted to use their engineering degrees to find jobs once they graduated.

But Coogar, you have to pick one and stick to it. Otherwise you seem like a joke.

you are the one looking like the joke here - you have raised weak points to defend the extremely low number of women at the topmost level. the question still persists - why do women drop out & completely change their career path?

sexual harassment or sheer incompetence?

coogar:


this argument has not shifted one bit. even a dog knows STEM courses are the hardest in the academic sphere of life. one needs a good brain to thrive there & i have proven to you that women have been found wanting when it comes to tasks that require a large amount of brain power.

there's no true excuse why women cannot pull their weights. sėx harassment is only limited to developing countries - not in the developed world. leaving their jobs to raise families is also a moot point. a chunky proportion of this women never even attempted to use their engineering degrees to find jobs once they graduated.

you are the one looking like the joke here - you have raised weak points to defend the extremely low number of women at the topmost level. the question still persists - why do women drop out & completely change their career path?

sexual harassment or sheer incompetence?

People like you always rely on half truths. You poorly confront such a complex problem with an overly simplistic explanation. You ignore the depth of the problem and the volume of research and raging debate amongst several academic fields. The reason for low stats (which are not constant) is not because women as a result of their biological makeup lack a brainpower; that is absolutely false because there are women in STEM. Statistics can not explain the biological makeup of women. It is either the woman is capable or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_STEM_fields

In respect to your comments that sexual harassment is absent even in developed nations is also false.

http://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2013/10/sexual-harassment-rife-in-the-workplace-new-study-reveals/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2151169/Sexual-harrassment-time-high-40-women-say-inappropriately-touched-colleagues.html

Timbuktou:
Married men have earned the right to conceit. A married man in the true sense of the concept is an established person. He's at the top of the social pyramid. Nature has placed the woman under the man where romance, family and marriage are concerned. You can fight it all you want, or you can embrace reality.

The place of a man on the social pyramid is a social definition, isn't it? By saying Nature, you don't mean society, so how is Nature's wishes determined?

Kay17:


People like you always rely on half truths. You poorly confront such a complex problem with an overly simplistic explanation. You ignore the depth of the problem and the volume of research and raging debate amongst several academic fields. The reason for low stats (which are not constant) is not because women as a result of their biological makeup lack a brainpower; that is absolutely false because there are women in STEM. Statistics can not explain the biological makeup of women. It is either the woman is capable or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_STEM_fields

did you even bother to read that link before posting it? jeeez - everything i have mentioned earlier are in this link about the worrying statistics of women at the top echelon of STEM fields.

In respect to your comments that sexual harassment is absent even in developed nations is also false.

http://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2013/10/sexual-harassment-rife-in-the-workplace-new-study-reveals/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2151169/Sexual-harrassment-time-high-40-women-say-inappropriately-touched-colleagues.html

bullshyte!
women lie about these things to get a leg up or a settlement payout. inappropriately touched my white foot! so getting touched inappropriately is the reason 30% of women that graduated in engineering never bothered to find an engineering job?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1940849_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

Kay17:


The place of a man on the social pyramid is a social definition, isn't it? By saying Nature, you don't mean society, so how is Nature's wishes determined?

Society is best served following the laws of nature. When society attempts to rebel against nature we get the current dilemma of a society off equilibrium.

coogar:


did you even bother to read that link before posting it? jeeez - everything i have mentioned earlier are in this link about the worrying statistics of women at the top echelon of STEM fields.



bullshyte!
women lie about these things to get a leg up or a settlement payout. inappropriately touched my white foot! so getting touched inappropriately is the reason 30% of women that graduated in engineering never bothered to find an engineering job?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1940849_image_jpeg9f360c5ab7736510df54c882e9dbf188

I did not disagree with the 'worrying statistics', what I disagreed with was the reasons for the statistics. You gave a single reason which cannot stand on its own, saying women by their biological makeup, lack brainpower. On the other hand, the article gives a myriad of reasons and a raging debate over the subject. Your own link which you provided stated:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20121028/BUSINESS/310269984

Maj Mirmirani, dean of the engineering program at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, said the lack of females in the workforce is problematic because women have inherent abilities they can offer in the field, which translate to more innovation, greater business opportunities and a more competitive economic environment.

Carol Eaton, president of Daytona State College, said while the situation is disheartening, an observation of the medical field's transition from being male-dominated to one of equal representation — and applying those principles to the problem of the lack of female engineers — may provide a solution.

Your own evidence damns your position. It is incredible.

Now, we have a new claim from you: women are liars. But the women in your own statistics reference are not liars, right?! How selective!

Timbuktou:
Society is best served following the laws of nature. When society attempts to rebel against nature we get the current dilemma of a society off equilibrium.

How do we decipher these laws of Nature, how do we find them? Where do I find the concept of marriage in Nature?

Kay17:


I did not disagree with the 'worrying statistics', what I disagreed with was the reasons for the statistics. You gave a single reason which cannot stand on its own, saying women by their biological makeup, lack brainpower. On the other hand, the article gives a myriad of reasons and a raging debate over the subject. Your own link which you provided stated:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20121028/BUSINESS/310269984

the article gave possibilities not cogent reasons. if they can do it, they will be doing it.....not abandon the ship completely after spending thousands of $$$ to acquire a degree in engineering.

Your own evidence damns your position. It is incredible.

Now, we have a new claim from you: women are liars. But the women in your own statistics reference are not liars, right?! How selective!

when it comes to claims of sëxual offences by women, i always stop short. 90% of them are usually fabricated. if we go by word of mouth alone, potiphar's wife was sëxually harassed by young joseph.

Kay17:


How do we decipher these laws of Nature, how do we find them? Where do I find the concept of marriage in Nature?

Where do you find the concept of market forces in nature? How did we decipher the nature of demand and supply? How did we decipher the nature of economics?

Timbuktou:
Where do you find the concept of market forces in nature? How did we decipher the nature of demand and supply? How did we decipher the nature of economics?

That is economics and deals with human behaviour in respect to economic goods and services. That is the scope those work. In you think Nature is the same as human behaviour, then you should have opted for the simpler expression.

Kay17:


That is economics and deals with human behaviour in respect to economic goods and services. That is the scope those work. In you think Nature is the same as human behaviour, then you should have opted for the simpler expression.

Reproduction is nature, humans respond to this through mating behaviour. Sorry, you have no point there.

Relationships are transactionary in nature, it's give-and-take. The goods and services are love, affection, favours, etc. This is nature, this is human behaviour.

Human behaviour must align with nature for the furtherance of the human race.

Timbuktou:
Reproduction is nature, humans respond to this through mating behaviour. Sorry, you have no point there.

Relationships are transactionary in nature, it's give-and-take. The goods and services are love, affection, favours, etc. This is nature, this is human behaviour.

[s]Human behaviour must align with nature for the furtherance of the human race[/s].

So, what we're discussing here is reproduction? Mumu.
As for your last statement, eating human like some tribe do is also a call of nature?

Shirley07:

1. So, what we're discussing here is reproduction?

2. As for your last statement, eating human like some tribe do is also a call of nature?

Shirley, Shirley, Shirley, you need help. Why must you always foam at the mouth and bark all the time? Are you cursed? Were you bitten by a sick dog? Were you dropped as a child? Your demeanour is a cause of concern.

1. What we are discussing is human nature dummy.

2. It's not in the interest of the human species to encourage cannibalism. How does cannibalism further the human race, you dolt?

But since you seem like the dick-chopping type, might I suggest Fiji? You should have your fill of human meat there.

Timbuktou:

Shirley, Shirley, Shirley, you need help. Why must you always foam at the mouth and bark all the time? Are you cursed? Were you bitten by a sick dog? Were you dropped as a child? Your demeanour is a cause of concern.

1. What we are discussing is human nature dummy.

2. It's not in the interest of the human species to encourage cannibalism. How does cannibalism further the human race, you dolt?

But since you seem like the dick-chopping type, might I suggest Fiji? You should have your fill of human meat there.

Your stupid self should have thought it before making a statement that human behaviour align with nature.
Also, how do patriarchy relates to reproduction and call of nature? What a joke.

Shirley07:

Your stupid self should have thought it before making a statement that human behaviour align with nature.
Also, how do patriarchy relates to reproduction and call of nature? What a joke.

Idiota, are you saying that human behaviour should go against nature?

Ode, you need to go back in history and seek the beginning of the family institution. I'm not here to help imbeciiles. Google is your friend.

By the way, you should thank the patriarchy for every liberty you enjoy. Without it, you'd be waste material.

Timbuktou:

Idiota, are you saying that human behaviour should go against nature?

Ode, you need to go back in history and seek the beginning of the family institution. I'm not here to help imbeciiles. Google is your friend.

By the way, you should thank the patriarchy for every liberty you enjoy. Without it, you'd be waste material.

Is that what your perforated brain was able to deduce from that post? Do You also know that your brain box doesn't align with your brain, ape?
An intelligent man would have be able to deduce from that comment that not all human behaviour align with nature as opposed to what you were saying but no, you have to be spoonfed due to your zero IQ.
I'm asking again how do patriarchy turned to reproduction and call of nature? Yeye.

Shirley07:

Is that what your perforated brain was able to deduce from that post? Do You also know that your brain box doesn't align with your brain, ape?
An intelligent man would have be able to deduce from that comment that not all human behaviour align with nature as opposed to what you were saying but no, you have to be spoonfed due to your zero IQ.
I'm asking again how do patriarchy turned to reproduction and call of nature? Yeye.

Idiiot, nature is about balance and whatever creates imbalance in nature should be done away with. I've been spoon-feeding you and your ilk till now and now you're claiming to be more intelligent than a drop of spit?

Don't ask me to spoon-feed your dry brain cells. Go read up on patriarchy before you continue quoting me. Get the fvck outta here and get an education. Mumu

Kay17:


It is an inherent vice of human beings to exploit the weak. And I see no advantage or good thing in being weak. One should be strong and tough otherwise life blows you away. For me powerlessness is the root of all evils. So whatever culture subjects a woman to a man, weakens the woman and renders her vulnerable.

If you see marriage as a beautiful thing, then divorce is an evil to you. If others see marriage as a bondage or an abuse, then a divorce is gracious exit. So divorces are perspective based.

Divorce regimes I know in the West favour an equitable distribution of property because women are always worse off in marriages. Their careers tend to die off, they become too dependent on their spouses. So it appears unfair to throw them out of marriages in penury because they committed their futures to their spouses. I think if divorces were stricter and tougher in terms against women, the better. At least that would discourage women from jumping into marriages.

In terms of perspective "weaker" doesn't always mean powerlessness. Generally, women might not be physically or mentally strong to handle daunting and very stressful tasks, and feminism is not going to change that in a gazillion years but they are strong enough to hold a man down, support him in all his endeavors, groom and train the children, take care of her man and the house. All these tasks might seem like they are easy, but in truth they actually are not, because majority of men can't do these things. That's why we need women who are help meet and are "STRONG" in that area to come and show their strength. In truth if women are advocating for equal rights which I feel they already have but want more, they wouldn't still be able to cope. They will have to have same toilets with men, play sports together, be in politics equally and in the right proportion etc.

Callfubu:
In terms of perspective "weaker" doesn't always mean powerlessness. Generally, women might not be physically or mentally strong to handle daunting and very stressful tasks, and feminism is not going to change that in a gazillion years but they are strong enough to hold a man down, support him in all his endeavors, groom and train the children, take care of her man and the house. All these tasks might seem like they are easy, but in truth they actually are not, because majority of men can't do these things. That's why we need women who are help meet and are "STRONG" in that area to come and show their strength. In truth if women are advocating for equal rights which I feel they already have but want more, they wouldn't still be able to cope. They will have to have same toilets with men, play sports together, be in politics equally and in the right proportion etc.

Those are traditional assumptions and prejudice most cultures make about women. They say women have weak physical and mental constitutions, which I disagree to. Women to have dreams and aspirations, these are hardwired in every human being.

Timbuktou:
Reproduction is nature, humans respond to this through mating behaviour. Sorry, you have no point there.

Relationships are transactionary in nature, it's give-and-take. The goods and services are love, affection, favours, etc. This is nature, this is human behaviour.

Human behaviour must align with nature for the furtherance of the human race.

What is Nature and how do you find the workings of Nature? Are we to accept all human behaviour unconditionally because Nature might have instigated it?

Kay17:


What is Nature and how do you find the workings of Nature? Are we to accept all human behaviour unconditionally because Nature might have instigated it?

natural, physical, or material world or universe.
"Nature" refers to the phenomena of the physical
world, and also to life in general. It ranges in scale
from the subatomic to the cosmic.
The word nature is derived from the Latin word
natura, or "essential qualities, innate disposition",
and in ancient times, literally meant "birth".[1]
Natura was a Latin translation of the Greek word
physis (φύσις), which originally related to the
intrinsic characteristics that plants, animals, and
other features of the world develop of their own
accord.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature

No, we are not to mindlessly obey nature/our nature as other animals do. We are to embrace our nature and improve on it where necessary and/or possible. We would be foolish to go against our nature.

Timbuktou:
natural, physical, or material world or universe.
"Nature" refers to the phenomena of the physical
world, and also to life in general. It ranges in scale
from the subatomic to the cosmic.
The word nature is derived from the Latin word
natura, or "essential qualities, innate disposition",
and in ancient times, literally meant "birth".[1]
Natura was a Latin translation of the Greek word
physis (φύσις), which originally related to the
intrinsic characteristics that plants, animals, and
other features of the world develop of their own
accord.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature

No, we are not to mindlessly obey nature/our nature as other animals do. We are to embrace our nature and improve on it where necessary and/or possible. We would be foolish to go against our nature.

You are using Nature in two separate meanings here. The first, as the environment with the wild life, water cycle and human behaviour as highlighted in italics. Thereby creating an unnecessary ambiguity. If you really meant Nature to mean our environment, then what has that got to do with marriages. What possible association have the two got to do with one another?!

Kay17:


You are using Nature in two separate meanings here. The first, as the environment with the wild life, water cycle and human behaviour as highlighted in italics. Thereby creating an unnecessary ambiguity. If you really meant Nature to mean our environment, then what has that got to do with marriages. What possible association have the two got to do with one another?!

You asked what nature meant and I gave a general meaning.

More specifically, our nature would refer to essence as in mind and body; needs and the means and channels to satisfying those needs.

Marriage is society's attempt to answer order on the basic level. There exists the need to reproduce, mate, romantic/sexual exclusivity, socialise, build, secure, etc. Marriage attempts to meet all these needs as civilly as possible.

Timbuktou:
You asked what nature meant and I gave a general meaning.

More specifically, our nature would refer to essence as in mind and body; needs and the means and channels to satisfying those needs.

Marriage is society's attempt to answer order on the basic level. There exists the need to reproduce, mate, romantic/sexual exclusivity, socialise, build, secure, etc. Marriage attempts to meet all these needs as civilly as possible.

I was not asking for a general meaning of nature, rather a meaning relevant to this discussion. Of what use is a term which has no place in the discussion. I will accept that by Nature, you mean the needs of the human body and mind. By that what we discuss become clearer.

Now, these needs you mentioned, must be satisfied otherwise they cause discomfort and a general state of unhappiness, right?

Chimamanda is married to a doctor, how did that happen if feminism threatens marriage and family values?
So we must settle for the _abokis and guinea fowl hunters that make noise up and down NL because we want to "uphold marriage and family values"

Kay17:


1. I was not asking for a general meaning of nature, rather a meaning relevant to this discussion. Of what use is a term which has no place in the discussion.

2. I will accept that by Nature, you mean the needs of the human body and mind. By that what we discuss become clearer.

3. Now, these needs you mentioned, must be satisfied otherwise they cause discomfort and a general state of unhappiness, right?

1. Already treated.

2. You love flogging dead horses?

3. I would go with relative comfort and satisfaction.

Timbuktou:
Don't twist my words madam. Marriage is in the interest of neither sex.

Timbuktou:
Nature has placed the woman under the man where romance, family and marriage are concerned. You can fight it all you want, or you can embrace reality.

Timbuktou:

1. Already treated.

2. You love flogging dead horses?

3. I would go with relative comfort and satisfaction.

Now reconcile all that you have said. Because they apparently look contradictory. If these natural needs which must be satisfied to give off comfort and satisfaction, is not in the interest of the sex that needs to be satisfied then what is! Also, marriage does not seem to be natural rather an incident of satisfying the supposed innate needs.

coogar:


the article gave possibilities not cogent reasons. if they can do it, they will be doing it.....not abandon the ship completely after spending thousands of $$$ to acquire a degree in engineering.



when it comes to claims of sëxual offences by women, i always stop short. 90% of them are usually fabricated. if we go by word of mouth alone, potiphar's wife was sëxually harassed by young joseph.

It means the author of this statement is lying, right?

Maj Mirmirani, dean of the engineering program at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach:
said the lack of females in the workforce is problematic because women have inherent abilities they can offer in the field, which translate to more innovation, greater business opportunities and a more competitive economic environment.

Kay17:







Now reconcile all that you have said. Because they apparently look contradictory. If these natural needs which must be satisfied to give off comfort and satisfaction, is not in the interest of the sex that needs to be satisfied then what is! Also, marriage does not seem to be natural rather an incident of satisfying the supposed innate needs.

I use interest to refer to what you term happiness and use satisfaction in the context of accomplishment of a task or chore or duty. Note I replaced happiness in your previous post with satisfaction and comfort with relative comfort.

And when I say nature has placed woman under her man, I mean what I say. Why else would women the world over 'marry up'?

So, when I say marriage is in the interest of neither sex, I mean that it is neutral in terms of bringing happiness to either sex. Humans have used marriage to adjust to those needs I stated earlier.

Kay17:

It means the author of this statement is lying, right?

he's just offering his opinion....
unfortunately for you, opinions aren't facts. the statement oozes out someone trying to be politically-correct. if they offer inherent abilities, why do they bail out at the first sign of mental tasks?

FrancisTony:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing about men being the head or women being submissive.

I think "submissiveness" depends on how the family(husband and wife) sees it.

I'm arguing about Gender Inequality.

kk

Nice pun,shaadey. hope you didnt mean it literally.