Ubenedictus:


1. i have told u 1 thing, the early writting clearly say it never was celebrated b4 d equinox by any1 b4 Hilel.

What year did the hilel calender celebrate the Passover, before the equinox.?

2. D church didnt use a calender it used d equinox.

Used the equinox to fix ur own new celebrations, that's ok and accepted.

So how did you use the equinox to fix the Passover date?
Can this equinox be used to fix other dates too? E.g , christmass.?

What happened to the calender you used then as regards the equinox?

malvisguy212:
very funny,he probably will say he don't know YET he swear Jesus was not born December 25. Confused man.

What prove do you have that he was born then?

My dear, u enjoy voluminous post, they wear me out, i'll respond to each of ur post but d discussion will b slow, i'll prefer if each thread of thought be a single post, insted of numbering 1,2,3

dolphinheart:


What year did the hilel calender celebrate the Passover, before the equinox.?

go and research this yourself.

Used the equinox to fix ur own new celebrations, that's ok and accepted.

does this mean u agree d church rightly fixed d date of easter?

So how did you use the equinox to fix the Passover date?[quote] what the church fixed was easter(pasha) not passover.
[quote]Can this equinox be used to fix other dates too? E.g , christmass.?

not directly, christmas doesnt fall on d equinox.

What happened to the calender you used then as regards the equinox?

rephrase this question pls.

dolphinheart:

These are the points again :

1.in the hebrew calender, a month is added every few years, that is their own format or way in calculating the years in their calender,its a rule in their calculations and they dnt just add it abitrarily.....
Adding days to a particular
calender year is in no way
different from the gregorian
calender that also add a day
every four years.

i guess u haven't been reading my post.

in ancient times adding a month wasn't based on calculation, it was based on observation and agriculture, if d produce came late a month was added and there were times when months were added continously for 4yrs. it was not based on calculation but observation.

It got worse when the temple fell and d sahendrine split into 2, and were given 2 different calenders and dates...

plappville:


You are still deceiving people with this your Oyibo festival that has no trace/root in the book of God. You cannot back your festival with scripture. Scripture never in any potion of the bible tagged Christ with a birthday. Not any of the prophets in the bible. You people will please God when you will only put in practice what He instructed you. Instead of Man traditions.

Sorry dear, but hw many of the thing u do today is xpressly instructed in the bible? can ur church trace itself to biblical times?

Ubenedictus:
Objection 3: Christ could not have been born in December since Saint Luke describes shepherds herding in the neighboring fields of Bethlehem.
Shepherds do not herd during the
winter. Thus, Christ was not born in winter.


Reply to Objection 3: Recall that Palestine is not England, Russia, or Alaska. Bethlehem is situated at the latitude of 31.7. Dallas, Texas has the latitude of 32.8, and it’s still rather comfortable outside in December. As the great Cornelius a Lapide remarks during his lifetime, one could still see shepherds and sheep in the fields of Italy during late December, and Italy is at higher latitude than Bethlehem.


Now we move on to establishing the birthday of Christ from Sacred Scripture in two steps. The first step is to use Scripture to determine the birthday of Saint John the Baptist. The next step is
using Saint John the Baptist’s birthday as the key for finding Christ’s birthday. We can discover that Christ was born in late
December by observing first the time of year in which Saint Luke describes Saint Zacharias in the temple. This provides us with the approximate conception date
of Saint John the Baptist. From there we can follow the chronology that Saint Luke gives, and that lands us at the end of December.

Saint Luke reports that Zacharias served in the “course of Abias” (Lk 1:5) which Scripture records as the eighth course among the twenty-four priestly courses (Neh 12:17). Each shift of priests served one week in the temple for two times
each year. The course of Abias served during the eighth week and the thirty-second week in the annual cycle.
However, when did the cycle of
courses begin?
Josef Heinrich Friedlieb has convincingly established that the first priestly course of Jojarib was on duty during the destruction of Jerusalem on the ninth day of the Jewish month of Av. Thus the priestly course of Jojarib was on
duty during the second week of Av.
Consequently, the priestly course of Abias (the course of Saint Zacharias) was undoubtedly serving during the second week of the Jewish month of Tishri—the
very week of the Day of Atonement on the tenth day of Tishri. In our calendar, the Day of Atonement would land anywhere from September 22 to October 8.
Zacharias and Elizabeth conceived John the Baptist immediately after Zacharias served his course. This entails that Saint John the Baptist would have been conceived somewhere around the end
of September, placing John’s birth at the end of June, confirming the Catholic Church’s celebration of the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist on June 24.
Immediately after this entry into the temple and message of the Archangel Gabriel, Zacharias and Elizabeth conceive John the Baptist. Allowing for forty weeks of gestation, this places the birth
of John the Baptist at the end of June—once again confirming the Catholic date for the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist on June 24.

The rest of the dating is rather simple.
We read that just after the Virgin Mary conceived Christ, she went
to visit her cousin Elizabeth who was six months pregnant with John the Baptist.
This means that John the Baptist was six months older that our Lord Jesus Christ (Lk 1:24-27, 36). If you add six months to June 24 you get December 24-25 as the birthday of Christ. Then, if you subtract nine months from December 25 you get that the Annunciation was March 25. All the dates match up perfectly. So then, if John the Baptist was
conceived shortly after the Jewish Day of the Atonement, then the traditional Catholic dates are essentially correct. The birth of Christ would be about or on December 25.


Sacred Tradition also confirms December 25 as the birthday of the Son of God. The source of this ancient tradition is the Blessed Virgin Mary herself. Ask any
mother about the birth of her children. She will not only give you the date of the birth, but she will be able to rattle off the time, the location, the weather, the weight of the baby, the length of the baby, and a number of other details.

Courtesy of Al-Jazeera

Pictures of Golan Heights in Israel filled with snow December 21st 2016

http://aje.io/gbag

truthislight:


Courtesy of Al-Jazeera

Pictures of Golan Heights in Israel filled with snow December 21st 2016

http://aje.io/gbag

Golan height is a hilly area, and as geography should tell u such areas generally have heavy snow even when d surrounding areas are less snowy or without snow.

Jesus was born in bethlehem not golan hieghts, a community reputed for keeping d sheeps used in the temple and must be taken to jerusalem regardles of season. There are also pictures of shepherds moving with sheep even in d snow, such have been provided on this thread. Did u miss it?

truthislight:


Courtesy of Al-Jazeera

Pictures of Golan Heights in Israel filled with snow December 21st 2016

http://aje.io/gbag

https://int.icej.org/news/commentary/tower-flock
cbn.com/special/thenativitymovie/articles/whybethlehem.aspx

The sherpherd from the area of bethlehem watch their sheep all year round since they were destined for d temple

Ubenedictus:
Golan height is a hilly area, and as geography should tell u such areas generally have heavy snow even when d surrounding areas are less snowy or without snow.

Jesus was born in bethlehem not golan hieghts, a community reputed for keeping d sheeps used in the temple and must be taken to jerusalem regardles of season. There are also pictures of shepherds moving with sheep even in d snow, such have been provided on this thread. Did u miss it?

Yeah, Your kind of Shepherd will Sleep with his Sheep outdoors even at night as long as it Justifies Dec 25th myths, inside the Snow.

Keep deluding your self.

No Record of a worshiper of Yahweh celebrating Birth days in the Bible written by Jews, NONE! Not the prophets nor Christ Apostles.

Only a mentally deranged man will Sleep outside in a weather where it is snowing be it in the mountains or the hills or the roof top, not to mention sleeping with his livestock's.

look under the fly over bridges and tell me that those sleeping under it even without snow does so willingly.

deceptive people will always want to push down the throat of people what is at best lawlessness. what reward is there in the scripture for celebrating Birthdays for Christians?

Keep fighting for your human made Tradition.

Because snow is only on the top of the mountain, then the surrounding areas below Will be very hot and comfortable.

Yes, in Nigeria, when Amatan wind blows, it is usually on the river and hills that we have dropped in temperatures.

Na fly way no wan hear something dey follow dead body enter grave.

Ubenedictus:
https://int.icej.org/news/commentary/tower-flock
cbn.com/special/thenativitymovie/articles/whybethlehem.aspx

The sherpherd from the area of Bethlehem watch their sheep all year round since they were destined for d temple

I don't have time to argue silly argument with you.

Shepherd were out at night as the Bible puts it is now "Shepherd destined for the temple".

Before? People carrying their sheep on a journey and it rain will carry their livestock's on their head when it starts raining. Why not? Otherwise, why should that be an issue here?

Is the issue not that it is a customary thing to sleep under the snow and cold weather with livestock?

But, what sort of man will see that it is raining and send his livestock's outside is the question you should think about.

Twisting of the scripture is an old Tradition to your lot. Next time, it will not be that they were on their way to Jerusalem, but it is a normal customary thing to sleep under the slow or when The temperatures has dropped so low that snow falls be it hill or whatever, they send their flocks out To sleep outside.

If all hill has snow in worm weather, which hill in Nigeria do we have snow while the under surrounding is still hot?

Do you care to tell the people you are deceiving and attempting to deceive the temperature that forms snow and Ice?

Please, tell them o!

How many of them sleeps outside during Amatan period that the temperature is even still high?

Ubenedictus:
https://int.icej.org/news/commentary/tower-flock
cbn.com/special/thenativitymovie/articles/whybethlehem.aspx

The sherpherd from the area of bethlehem watch their sheep all year round since they were destined for d temple

Lol. He is even quoting a body that celebrate Christmas as an authority to buttressed the no brainer he was attempting to give.

SalC:
I have been waiting for this thread! Now this is well detailed.
I would love to see the anti-25th dec Christmas fellows join this discussion, and counter it if possible.

I think we have so listened to those who are more interested in telling us that everything we do is wrong and forgot to do some research.

I may not have known all these but I must say this is more of a detailed research than anything I've read before now.


Bookmarked for further study.

Weldone Ubenedictus.
Wish the mods will place this on the homepage.
Seun, Obinoscopy, Ishilove, Mukina2

for what

if you can show me in the bible when Jesus actually threw parties for himself in the name of Birthday.....

urheme:



for what

if you can show me in the bible when Jesus actually threw parties for himself in the name of Birthday.....

Next u will ask me to show u where Jesus pooed in d bible abi?

truthislight:


Lol. He is even quoting a body that celebrate Christmas as an authority to buttressed the no brainer he was attempting to give.

And so? there as many thing quoted there, rabbinic sources etc... so d migdal eder is wrong becos my link isnt frm ur church?

truthislight:


I don't have time to argue silly argument with you.

Shepherd were out at night as the Bible puts it is now "Shepherd destined for the temple".

Before? People carrying their sheep on a journey and it rain will carry their livestock's on their head when it starts raining. Why not? Otherwise, why should that be an issue here?

Is the issue not that it is a customary thing to sleep under the snow and cold weather with livestock?

But, what sort of man will see that it is raining and send his livestock's outside is the question you should think about.

Twisting of the scripture is an old Tradition to your lot. Next time, it will not be that they were on their way to Jerusalem, but it is a normal customary thing to sleep under the slow or when The temperatures has dropped so low that snow falls be it hill or whatever, they send their flocks out To sleep outside.

d usual rant. it was also answered previously with pictures showing sherpherds in winter.

Ubenedictus:
d usual rant. it was also answered previously with pictures showing sherpherds in winter.

Mr Hill Snowing under hot temperature.. Why would you not call it rant? why would you not say anything to suit your deceptive disposition?

Yes, if someone ask you to sleep in a cold room you will sleep, not just you, but you and your livestock's, if cold room will be too cold, you come to the public and Internet forum to deceive your nitwits readers as you imagined Nairalanders are.

if you belief they are thinking people, why would you imagined them to accept your offer that shepherds and their flocks will sleep out in a condition that forms ice just like a cold room?

If you imagined we are not foolish, why on earth would you say that an area that can form snow on top a hill that the under of the hill is hot?
you can't even respect that at least some people have a fridge and knows what happens when the door of a cold fridge is open that it oozes out cold air.

that you don't know that for a drop of Ice to form in an environment, that the surrounding atmosphere most maintain a relative temperature equilibrium otherwise there would be No such thing as Ice or snow?

Is it your ignorance that is responsible for such presumptuousness or it is rather an act of foolishness that will lead you to come to the Internet to deceive us?

Whatever the reason driving such deceit, please, endeavor to keep it in your monastery and convent and don't work naked in the public again imagining that every body else is blind?

Nonsense!

truthislight:


Mr Hill Snowing under hot temperature.. Why would you not call it rant? why would you not say anything to suit your deceptive disposition?

Yes, if someone ask you to sleep in a cold room you will sleep, not just you, but you and your livestock's, if cold room will be too cold, you come to the public and Internet forum to deceive your nitwits readers as you imagined Nairalanders are.

if you belief they are thinking people, why would you imagined them to accept your offer that shepherds and their flocks will sleep out in a condition that forms ice just like a cold room?

If you imagined we are not foolish, why on earth would you say that an area that can form snow on top a hill that the under of the hill is hot?
you can't even respect that at least some people have a fridge and knows what happens when the door of a cold fridge is open that it oozes out cold air.

i really dont know why u prefer to argue from sentiments instead of facts.

....

CC Reno Omokari

Kamxin:
CC Reno Omokari

Is he on nairaland?

Ubenedictus:
Is he on nairaland?

The probability is 99%. Any Nigerian that is always online somehow end up in Nairaland and read people's opinion.

Kamxin:


The probability is 99%. Any Nigerian that is always online somehow end up in Nairaland and read people's opinion.

anything is possible i guess.

At Jesus' birth,shepherds were with their flocks in the fields at night! Luke 2:8-14
During December period, Bethlehem Ephrata is characterized by incessant coldness, should we agree that those shepherds aren't business conscious?
Ceasar Augustus ordered all Jews to travel back to their homelands for a census, how is that possible when the Roman government are trying not to do anything that could make the Jews revolt, he couldn't give such orders during the cold season? Luke 2:1-4

Metry Christmas to all

Many that celebrate Christmas are willful sinners that refused to repent of sins. If you don't repent of sins and give your life to Jesus, all your arguments and celebrations will end in the pit of hell

TATIME:
At Jesus' birth,shepherds were with their flocks in the fields at night! Luke 2:8-14
During December period, Bethlehem Ephrata is characterized by incessant coldness, should we agree that those shepherds aren't business conscious?
Ceasar Augustus ordered all Jews to travel back to their homelands for a census, how is that possible when the Roman government are trying not to do anything that could make the Jews revolt, he couldn't give such orders during the cold season? Luke 2:1-4

funny thing is that if you go to Bethlehem today it is possible you will still find shepherds and flock today, Bethlehem can be warm in December. Bethlehem is not Russia.


Secondly Bethlehem was where the animals used in the Temple for sacrifice was trained so that there are always shepherds at there tending sheep and making the journey to Jerusalem all year round.





Reply to Objection 3: Recall that Palestine is not England, Russia, or Alaska. Bethlehem is situated at the latitude of 31.7. Dallas, Texas has the latitude of 32.8, and it’s still rather comfortable outside in December. As the great Cornelius a Lapide remarks during his lifetime, one could still see shepherds and sheep in the fields of Italy during late December, and Italy is at higher latitude than Bethlehem.

Ubenedictus:
funny thing is that if you go to Bethlehem today it is possible you will still find shepherds and flock today, Bethlehem can be warm in December. Bethlehem is not Russia.
Secondly Bethlehem was where the animals used in the Temple for sacrifice was trained so that there are always shepherds at there tending sheep and making the journey to Jerusalem all year round.
Reply to Objection 3: Recall that Palestine is not England, Russia, or Alaska. Bethlehem is situated at the latitude of 31.7. Dallas, Texas has the latitude of 32.8, and it’s still rather comfortable outside in December. As the great Cornelius a Lapide remarks during his lifetime, one could still see shepherds and sheep in the fields of Italy during late December, and Italy is at higher latitude than Bethlehem.

Hmmmmmmmmm this sounds appealing Sir, I never knew all these but please Sir
*is there any example of God's servants who celebrated birthdays in the Bible?
*what exactly did God's word say about copying the customs or traditions of those not serving the God of Israel?
*why didn't Joseph and Mary celebrated Jesus' birthday?
*perhaps Jesus was much more social than His parents, so why didn't He mark His own birthday?
*maybe Jesus was too preoccupied with the ministry, so was there any proof that the early Christians celebrated Jesus' birthday?
I'm asking to know for sure if people celebrating Christmas today aren't annoying God,since God is not speaking from the sky to show HIS approval and December period is often characterized by calamitous events!

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmm this sounds appealing Sir, I never knew all these but please Sir
*is there any example of God's servants who celebrated birthdays in the Bible?
*what exactly did God's word say about copying the customs or traditions of those not serving the God of Israel?
*why didn't Joseph and Mary celebrated Jesus' birthday?
*perhaps Jesus was much more social than His parents, so why didn't He mark His own birthday?
*maybe Jesus was too preoccupied with the ministry, so was there any proof that the early Christians celebrated Jesus' birthday?
I'm asking to know for sure if people celebrating Christmas today aren't annoying God,since God is not speaking from the sky to show HIS approval and December period is often characterized by calamitous events!

I could ask the opposite, where does the bible condemn birthday celebration? where did you hear that the bible records all celebrations?

Ubenedictus:
I could ask the opposite, where does the bible condemn birthday celebration? where did you hear that the bible records all celebrations?

Well the Bible is no more a book that's based on laws like do this and don't do that stuff my friend. Before Jesus came, Israelites were to live by the divine laws but when Jesus arrived as the Messiah or Christ everything changed!
Jesus taught His own followers by examples, He lived by principles which He Himself actually taught! So to address your TWO QUESTIONS
*God told the Israelites never to imitate any of the customs or traditions of those pagans HE is driving away before them. Before and after the commissioning of Christianity, you can never see a worshipper of God celebrating birthday because it's the custom of pagans. Genesis 40:20, Matthew 14:6
*Jesus is the foundation of Christianity, so the first century Christians restricted all their celebrations to that which He laid down for them,that's why people hated them back then just as other nations hated the Israelites for restricting themselves to whatever their God says. John 17:14
Satan is a REAL person and he is responsible for misleading all the nations of the earth(2Corinthians 4:4,1John 5:19) how? It's simply by festivities,customs and traditions that will draw them away from God UNKNOWINGLY! 1Corinthians 10:19-22
Whoever wants to feel free as in participating in any festivity of his/her choice can't truthfully remain a Christian(2 Timothy 4:10) because you won't know when you're going to the extreme and Satan is a master in the game! No wonder Jesus admonished His OWN followers to keep following His footprint. When you hear the slogan "Jesus is Lord" many love reciting it often but the true meaning eludes their senses. It simply means you can't just participate in anything you like since you're STRICTLY walking on the footprint of Jesus, you have to meditate thoroughly on every thought, words and actions of the one you're calling "Lord" otherwise JESUS won't count you as one of His sheep(those who only act on Jesus' orders)! Matthew 15:9

TATIME:
Well the Bible is no more a book that's based on laws like do this and don't do that stuff my friend. Before Jesus came, Israelites were to live by the divine laws but when Jesus arrived as the Messiah or Christ everything changed!
Jesus taught His own followers by examples, He lived by principles whichb He Himself actually taught! So to address your TWO QUESTIONS
*God told the Israelites never to imitate any of the customs or traditions of those pagans HE is driving away before them. Before and after the commissioning of Christianity, you can never see a worshipper of God celebrating birthday because it's the custom of pagans. Genesis 40:20, Matthew 14:6
*Jesus is the foundation of Christianity, so the first century Christians restricted all their celebrations to that which He laid down for them,that's why people hated them back then just as other nations hated the Israelites for restricting themselves to whatever their God says. John 17:14
Satan is a REAL person and he is responsible for misleading all the nations of the earth(2Corinthians 4:4,1John 5:19) how? It's simply by festivities,customs and traditions that will draw them away from God UNKNOWINGLY! 1Corinthians 10:19-22
Whoever wants to feel free as in participating in any festivity of his/her choice can't truthfully remain a Christian(2 Timothy 4:10) because you won't know when you're going to the extreme and Satan is a master in the game! No wonder Jesus admonished His OWN followers to keep following His footprint. When you hear the slogan "Jesus is Lord" many love reciting it often but the true meaning eludes their senses. It simply means you can't just participate in anything you like since you're STRICTLY walking on the footprint of Jesus, you have to meditate thoroughly on every thought, words and actions of the one you're calling "Lord" otherwise JESUS won't count you as one of His sheep(those who only act on Jesus' orders)! Matthew 15:9

After Jesus came the Holy Spirit said this.


Col 2:16


Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.