I wonder why that guy miss the target,at least Bush suppose carry sore comot for office by 20.Jan.09

@Bastage
Considering I've just got back from church I was in two minds to reply your post, anyway the idealist in me won.
You've just earned yourself a job with the davidylan/Tayo_d traveling circus. This may not be your intension but sadly that's what you achieved with your doofus argument.

I almost vomited when I read

"The UK and the West tried to block it's creation and then supported the Arabs when they invaded. Only to see them get their asses kicked."

I finally vomited when you wrote

"Of course, we can live in a dream-world and pretend that Israel was created by the US, UK and the West which thought it was a[b] great idea[/b]"

Great idea indeed if its not your land that is being taken. Why didn't you tell the the UN to carve out a part of Lagos state to accommodate the Tutsis fleeing genocide from the Hutus?
Here are the facts for you to ponder:
(1)It was Europeans who declared in the "Balfour declaration" that "Palestine should be reconstituted as the National Home of the Jewish people".

(2)Jews live in diaspora waiting for God to tell them to return to "Israel" no such confirmation has been made as far as I know.

(3)Most Jews came from Europe including its first premiere Ben Gurion who is a Polish citizen (born and bred).

(4)Arab population in Palestine then was 93%  with Jews 7%

(5)Baron Lionel Rothschild (a Brit Jew) literally dictated the draft of the Balfour declaration that later became the basis for the creation of Israel.

From the  above you can see the Jewish state was forced on the Arab people. It's also relevant to note that when the world was looking for a homeland for the Jews, Uganda was one of several countries proposed as the new "Israel".
Phew!! Africa came dangerously close from hosting these treacherous people.

Bastage:

Afam wrote:
Then Afam wrote:
To anyone with half a brain the first sentence looks like an insult to his parents.
Either you're the liar in question here or you don't understand anything that you write yourself.

This clown has started his own version of useless thinking.

The content in bold refers, what the first sentence looks like is not the issue but what the sentence actually is.

congoshine:

Afam,
I started this thread & there isn't any room for insulting people's parents here,please !

We're nigerians & respect for parents is sarcrosanct,I'll appreciate you take back the insults & stick to the issues.
Thanks.

Insulting people's parents? Can you read at all?

Who cares what you will appreciate? Physician heal thyself and practice what you preach, you have contributed nothing to the thread with this your unsolicited advice.

(1)It was Europeans who declared in the "Balfour declaration" that "Palestine should be reconstituted as the National Home of the Jewish people".

(5)Baron Lionel Rothschild (a Brit Jew) literally dictated the draft of the Balfour declaration that later became the basis for the creation of Israel.

Why are you burbling on about the Balfour Declaration? It was written in 1917 long before even the Holocaust took place and was dead in the water not long after it was written. Its' irrelevant.


Do you even know what it was? Here. I'll post you the whole text shall I?

Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour

You base your whole argument on 3 paragraphs written by a government official long prior to the earth-shattering events that were later to take place? Try looking at the Peel Declaration - that has much more relevance.


And you've totally overlooked the fact that the Jews were in Israel a long time before Balfour wrote. There were large exoduses in the 19th century. This led to such incidents as the massacre at Hebron where 67 Jews were murdered by Arab extremists. From then on until the state of Israel was created, the Arabs were trying to kick out lawfully settled Jews. If the West was so ingratiating to the Jews, why the arms embargoes that left them defenceless against Arab attack? Why were the Arabs handed a flood of British weapons to fight the Jews with? Explain that one. And I'm the dufus? You have no idea of history.


The British actually fought against the Jews trying to stop them establishing a state in Palestine. Jews were branded terrorists by the UK authorities. Try reading about such subjects as the Exodus 1947 where a boatload of immigrants landed in Israel and the UK sent them back to German Camps. Explain that.
Then explain how UK soldiers were killed by Jewish terrorists in gun battles and bombings.

The British had absolutely no interest in Palestine and offloaded the problem onto the UN as soon as they could.

I've just got back from church I was in two minds to reply your post, anyway the idealist in me won.

Two minds? The idealist won but the guy with the intelligence lost.

@Thread
This you-said, then i-said, then david-said, then i-said, then tayo-d said, but afam-said don tire me o!

@Bastage

FYI, an American culprit is a powerful weapon in the hands of most Arab governments, a two-edged sword: it assuages the masses cry for American blood, making the government look like it's got balls(!) and at the same time it gives the Arab governments a chance to show the Americans just how ally-ally (my word o!) the Arab government (in most cases saudi and Egypt) is. So when they tell you that so so American was found guilty, they are just playing to the gallery. Behind closed doors, the American gets a slap on the wrist and is let off the hook. No be yarn. Na so e dey happen. Take it or leave it. There are many NGOs fighting against that double standard in Egypt. I have a friend working with one. There are many American pedophiles in Egypt who have been convicted and are never brought to serve any sentence. I'll try to get my friend's web site link for you, if you like.

Anyway, ride on with your VOLTRON work. Bush fi jus dash you Green Card one-o-these-days, sharply!

@congoshine

Nuff respect given, "friend"!

@Bastage,

To anyone with half a brain the first sentence looks like an insult to his parents. Either you're the liar in question here or you don't understand anything that you write yourself.

Actually, Afam is not only a liar he is also bereft of understanding.

@davidylan,

Bastage . . . you talk as if Afam has half a brain.

You can't blame Bastage. Afterall, some of us are trained to believe the best of our fellow human. Bastage was only being generous by assuming Afam still has some light on upstairs.

@congoshine,

Afam, I started this thread & there isn't any room for insulting people's parents here,please !

They say a word is enough for the wise. This does not apply to Afam at all. He is not wise and so will continue in his foolishness as evidenced by his response to you.

Ecclesiastes 10:3 says the following: "Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is." There is no one that fits this description better than Afam.  Even though we can't physically observe him, he sure makes it evident that he is a fool by his conduct on the www.

@TayoD,

At least I am not a criminal like you that goes around switching and registering multiple IDs on this forum with the sole intention to deceive people.

These days you can't even tell when a single person starts a thread and responds to the same thread using up to 5 different user IDs.

If you are banned from this forum (just like the other criminal davidylan) then stay out of the forum instead of registering multiple IDs. You should at least have a life outside this forum but it seems that is an impossible advice.

Tornadoz:

From the  above you can see the Jewish state was forced on the Arab people. It's also relevant to note that when the world was looking for a homeland for the Jews, Uganda was one of several countries proposed as the new "Israel".
Phew!! Africa came dangerously close from hosting these treacherous people.

Tornadoz,I don't think we should go back to who forced what on people,Nigeria as we all agree was probably forced on us all & this applies to most countries(or how can you explain white South Africans & Zimbabweans? ).

The burning question should be ,the way forward:How can the Israelis(remember almost 20% of Israelis are Arabs) live side by side with its neighbours?

The problem though has clearly religious undertones, is largely political.

carmelily:

@congoshine
Nuff respect given, "friend"!

Tayo-D:

@congoshine,They say a word is enough for the wise.

I think you're right

@Afam,

At least I am not a criminal like you that goes around switching and registering multiple IDs on this forum with the sole intention to deceive people.
These days you can't even tell when a single person starts a thread and responds to the same thread using up to 5 different user IDs.
If you are banned from this forum (just like the other criminal davidylan) then stay out of the forum instead of registering multiple IDs. You should at least have a life outside this forum but it seems that is an impossible advice.

I have long known that while it is possible to gather information together and present a body of facts, it is another thing to be able to understand and rightly interprete those facts.  At least for once on nairaland, Afam got his facts right: I am the same person who used the username TayoD (now retired), but now using the username Tayo-D on this forum. This shows one improtant point. If a dunce like Afam could readily see that, I am sure everyone else on nairaland will.

Now to the more important aspect of these facts - rightly interpreting them or understanding them.  To a logical person who knows how to use his brains, the first thing to do in finding out if there was a fraud is to check if there has ever being an overlap in the use of both usernames. The facts in this case proves otherwise.  My last posting as TayoD on nairaland was on August 26, 2007.  My first posting as Tayo-D was on September 25, 2007 almost a month later.  These facts can be verified by anyone. So this attempt by Afam to sully my character is nothing but a calculated attempt to hide his ignorance of the issues at hand. For someone has no regards for his or others' parents, and is ready and willing to have his parents ridiculed on the www, I really am not surprised by his cheap shots.

On the other hand, Afam has partly owned up to posting pictures of other people on his website with a view to defrauding people. The real question then is this: how many of those people have fallen victim to your identitity theft?  Where else have you used their names, pictures and personal information dubiously as yours.  I see only one thief and liar here, and that is you, Afam.

So when they tell you that so so American was found guilty, they are just playing to the gallery.

Hang on. Earlier you were saying that Americans weren't arrested and found guilty. Not you're saying that they are arrested and found guilty but it's all a stage show. So now 100 lashes and a year in jail is just "playing to the gallery"? What total about face and stupid excuse are you going to come up with next?

You're a joke.

@Tayo-D.

Pretty good descripton of Afam but I think you could have saved time and just summed him up in one word - slowpoke.

@bastage,

@Tayo-D.
Pretty good descripton of Afam but I think you could have saved time and just summed him up in one word - slowpoke.

I cannot argue with that description.

Interesting!

Progressives and all those outside the RRR (Religious Right of the Republican party) should be glad that we won the last election in the US, and we now see an end to the nightmare of Bush's reign of terror. We all salute the shoe thrower for his act of courage against the tyrant, George W. Bush. As someone pointed out, the US media made fun of the whole thing and most Americans got a huge laugh from it. Many Americans even made videos from the event that went viral!

The main cause of strife in the middle-east is the unfair treatment of Palestinians in their own land! All progressives must fight against this injustice, just like we fought against the injustices of Apartheid South Africa. True, some young men have used Islam to justify many dastardly acts all over the world. Even in Nigeria; recent riots in Jos resulted in the loss of hundreds of lives. In the past, Hausa/Fulani youths have used Islam as the basis for murdering Christians in northern Nigeria. As hard as it may be to separate the lunacy of the barbaric acts of many Hausa/Fulani Muslim youths from their religion, Islam, we have to realize that there are many Muslims in many parts of the world, who are peaceful and want peace. We cannot contemplate any justification of any act that goes against the human rights of any individual. Hence, the torture of mainly Muslim men in Guantanamo by the Bush-Cheney cabal must be condemned; the slaughter of innocent Iraqi (mainly Muslim) civilians by US forces and her private militia (Blackwater etc.); the murder of Afghan and Pakistani (mainly Muslim) women and children in the mountains of the Afghanistan-Pakistan boarder by US drones must be condemned; and the illegal occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel must also be condemned.

I hope that come January 2009, the world will see a better America, a fairer, more just America, one that does not deprive a man of his rights because of the God he prays to, or the language he speaks. This same America, not too long ago, deprived African-Americans of their basic human rights. Fortunately, we have moved past that era. But, it will be a mistake on our path to allow those injustices we suffered in America to be transferred to our Arab cousins in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. We must continue to condemn the illegal acts of our government, no matter what! 

Injustice to any human (Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, etc.) must be condemned!

Kudos to the progressives:

1. Afam
2. Tornadoz
3. carmelily
4. shawn123
5. hafees
6. sleek_p
7. game_rod
8. MrCrackles
9. lawyer
10. bigmodo
And many others!

Thanks for your thoughts!

Richy, you lost some credibility when you mention the likes of Afam, game-rod and hafees as progressives.

When are you going to condemn terror from muslims and arabs? Perhaps not . . .

When will you condemn Darfur . . . maybe never

When will you condemn alqaeda . . . oh i forget they are progressives too

and hamas, hezbollah?

davidylan:

Richy, you lost some credibility when you mention the likes of Afam, game-rod and hafees as progressives.

When are you going to condemn terror from muslims and arabs? Perhaps not . . .

When will you condemn Darfur . . . maybe never

When will you condemn alqaeda . . . oh i forget they are progressives too

and hamas, hezbollah?

No I did not!

I've always condemned those things you listed up there!

Of course I condemned the tactics of Alqaeda; the Sudanese government's action against her own people in Darfur; the killing of innocent civilians by Hamas and Hezbollah; the marauding murderers in Northern Nigeria; the senseless attacks in Bali, Indonesia; the mindless killings in Mumbai, India; etc. The list is long! And RichyBlack has condemned all of them!

However, the condemnation continues on BBC, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC, etc. 24-7. Who condemns the US and UK for their war in Iraq? Who condemns Israel for all her atrocities?

Davidylan,
1. Have you ever in your present incarnation condemned ANY action of the Israeli government?
2. Have you ever condemned the illegal occupation of Palestine?
3. Have ever condemned the gulag called Guantanamo?
4. Have you ever condemned the killing of civilians in Iraq by US soldiers and private militias like Blackwater?
5. Have you ever condemned the murder of innocent women and children in the mountains of Afghanistan by US drones?

It is on record that my position on these issues is not based on any religious sentiments, but on the aspiration that we must condemn all forms of oppression, murder and torture, no matter who is perpetuating it!

An Israeli life is no more valuable than a Palestinian life!

An American life is no more valuable than a Pakistani life!

@Bastage

You base your whole argument on 3 paragraphs written by a government official

Er, Arthur James Balfour was not just a govt official, he was foreign minister when the declaration was made in 1917.

And you've totally overlooked the fact that the Jews were in Israel a long time before Balfour wrote. There were large exoduses in the 19th century. This led to such incidents as the massacre at Hebron where 67 Jews were murdered by Arab extremists.

The above would have made sense if Arabs were not already living in Palestine. As at the 7th century (way before the 19th) Arabs were the majority population.

If the West was so ingratiating to the Jews, why the arms embargoes that left them defenceless against Arab attack? Why were the Arabs handed a flood of British weapons to fight the Jews with? Explain that one. And I'm the dufus? You have no idea of history.

You're not a doofus but am tempted to call you a  knob head because I never said:"the West was so ingratiating to the Jews"?
I however said that the Balfour declaration became the basis for the creation of Israel.

The British actually fought against the Jews trying to stop them establishing a state in Palestine. Jews were branded terrorists by the UK authorities. Try reading about such subjects as the Exodus 1947 where a boatload of immigrants landed in Israel and the UK sent them back to German Camps. Explain that.
Then explain how UK soldiers were killed by Jewish terrorists in gun battles and bombings.

Branding them terrorist could not be because the first terrorist bombing in the middle east was carried out by the Jews, could it? Other examples are:
(1)The King David Hotel Bombings directed by the terrorist Menachem (Polish citizen)Begin who later became Israel's prime minister,
(2)British military headquarters bombings
(3)The Jerusalem Railway Station bombings etc.

Get a decent history book (if only for the sake of your progenitor)instead of reading on-line blogs written by semi-literate morons.

@Tornadoz,

The above would have made sense if Arabs were not already living in Palestine. As at the 7th century (way before the 19th) Arabs were the majority population.

That they were the majority population at that time does not give them a greater claim to the land, just as the greater population of immigrants into the US does not confer on them more claims to the land ahead of the natives.  The logical thing for anyone to come up with is this: Why not share the land and live side-by-side? I forget, the UN already did and the Arabs rejected the offer.

But let us go further back than the 7th century. Let us try, lets say AD 70.  Remember a guy called Titus and his destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70?  I wonder if it was Jews or Arabs who resisted Titus.  I almost forgot. Recorded history actually says that Titus was resisted in Jerusalem by a people called the Sacarii and the Zealots. My question: are these Jews or Arabs?

Er, Arthur James Balfour was not just a govt official, he was foreign minister when the declaration was made in 1917.

Idiot. A foreign minister is a government official.

The above would have made sense if Arabs were not already living in Palestine. As at the 7th century (way before the 19th) Arabs were the majority population.

Yes. Because of continual pogroms against the Jewish population. Being the greater in number does not give you right of ownership.

You're not a doofus but am tempted to call you a  knob head because I never said:"the West was so ingratiating to the Jews"?
I however said that the Balfour declaration became the basis for the creation of Israel.

Actually, I'm not tempted to call you a knobhead. I will call you a knobhead.
I said it in reply to this exchange:

I almost vomited when I read
"The UK and the West tried to block it's creation and then supported the Arabs when they invaded. Only to see them get their asses kicked."
I finally vomited when you wrote
"Of course, we can live in a dream-world and pretend that Israel was created by the US, UK and the West which thought it was a great idea"

The fact is that you have stated that the West was supporting the creation of Israel when clearly it was not. Go look up the dictionary definition of the word "ingratiating". Knobhead.

Branding them terrorist could not be because the first terrorist bombing in the middle east was carried out by the Jews, could it? Other examples are:
(1)The King David Hotel Bombings directed by the terrorist Menachem (Polish citizen)Begin who later became Israel's prime minister,
(2)British military headquarters bombings
(3)The Jerusalem Railway Station bombings etc.

What an idiot you are. Why do you think I bought the subject up? All you've done is reinforce the point I've illustrated - that the Jews were at odds with the UK over the creation of the state of Israel.

Knobhead.

@bastage,slowpoke? Seems you have been hurt simply by being exposed as someone who goes around fabricating nonsense and expecting people to debate them. Well, it take an slowpoke to know one so I will conclude that you come from a family full of imbiciles. What a great family you have there.@TayoD, Tayo-D, TayoBlack etc,I have read your post and the excuses. Not enough. Even armed robbers are known to twist facts.Thank God for publc discussion boards otherwise what would have made a common criminal like you have any opportunity to discuss on the same issue.You are shameless. Keep using multiple IDs.

@Afam,

Well, it take an slowpoke to know one so I will conclude that you come from a family full of imbiciles.

Now this is what happens when Afam tries to use the puss on his head he calls a brain. In his own words, it takes an slowpoke to know an slowpoke. In identifying that someone is an slowpoke, he has concluded that he himself is one. Thank God you have seen yourself for what you really are. Didn't I tell you to leave logical thinking to those who have the capacity to engage in such? You might want to restrict your inputs on this thread to the articles from your inbox. That requires no strain on your grey matter. Olodo

RichyBlacK:

However, the condemnation continues on BBC, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC, etc. 24-7. Who condemns the US and UK for their war in Iraq? Who condemns Israel for all her atrocities?

Shows how little of the media you really know. Besides FOX . . . CNN, BBC, ABC and MSNBC are fierce critics of the US-led war in Iraq. What "atrocities" by Israel do you talk about? Pls tell us.

RichyBlacK:

Davidylan,
1. Have you ever in your present incarnation condemned ANY action of the Israeli government?

which actions? Defending themselves?

RichyBlacK:

2. Have you ever condemned the illegal occupation of Palestine?

No, for the following reasons:

1. Before 1948, the term palestinian refered to Jews only.
2. Jordan is 85% of the original palestinian Mandate, why is that not considered an "illegal occupation"?
3. Egypt had Gaza between 1948 and 1967 ditto for Jordan and the "West Bank" . . . the name actually comes from Jordanian authorities NOT the usurpers presently crying foul today . . . did anyone consider it "illegal occupation" then?

RichyBlacK:

3. Have ever condemned the gulag called Guantanamo?

What is wrong with it? Are there no gulags in the UK or even Nigeria? Why is this gulag of particular interest to hypocrites?
Is it populated by the wrongly accused? Since when did it become a crime to incarcerate terrorists?

RichyBlacK:

4. Have you ever condemned the killing of civilians in Iraq by US soldiers and private militias like Blackwater?

99% of the killings have been carried out by Iraqis and other terrorist groups. Where is your condemnation?

RichyBlacK:

5. Have you ever condemned the murder of innocent women and children in the mountains of Afghanistan by US drones?

In war there is what is called collateral damage. If those "innocent" folks love their lives then let them give up Osama Bn Laden.
Where were you when Osama killed thousands of innocent American women and children?

RichyBlacK:

It is on record that my position on these issues is not based on any religious sentiments, but on the aspiration that we must condemn all forms of oppression, murder and torture, no matter who is perpetuating it!

Hogwash.

RichyBlacK:

An Israeli life is no more valuable than a Palestinian life!

An American life is no more valuable than a Pakistani life!

Yeah when Israelis or Americans die i'd love to see you put up threads to condemn it.

Seems you have been hurt simply by being exposed as someone who goes around fabricating nonsense and expecting people to debate them.

I haven't twisted any facts.
I've stated that the West wasn't as complicit in the creation of the state of Israel as people like yourself would like others to believe. People who claim so are merely chirping age old ignorance. The fact is that the British were near enough in a state of war with the Jews over the creation. Tornadoz very kindly reinforced that fact when he pointed out the bombing campaign that the Jews were involved in. So I guess if you're accusing me of fabricating nonsense, you'd have to accuse Tornadoz too.

I've also pointed out that using the Balfour Declaration as an excuse is just ridiculous. It's lazy and ignorant. People have heard of it but never read it. They have no clue of either what it contains, when it was written, by whom, when or that it has only three paragraphs. Yet they're so gullible, they'll turn around and say that such a relatively insignificant piece of paper is responsible for the creation of Israel.

I would offer to debate you, but judging by what you've written here and elsewhere, it would just be a total waste of time - you just simply don't have the intelligence to debate.

Tayo-D:

@Afam,
Now this is what happens when Afam tries to use the puss on his head he calls a brain. In his own words, it takes an slowpoke to know an slowpoke. In identifying that someone is an slowpoke, he has concluded that he himself is one. Thank God you have seen yourself for what you really are. Didn't I tell you to leave logical thinking to those who have the capacity to engage in such? You might want to restrict your inputs on this thread to the articles from your inbox. That requires no strain on your grey matter. Olodo

Oh how i miss those "thoughtful" articles.

Bastage:

Why do you think I bought the subject up? All you've done is reinforce the point I've illustrated - that the Jews were at odds with the UK over the creation of the state of Israel.

They were at odds yes but thats because the Jews wanted the entire new state to themselves.
Britain wanted a homeland for the Jews from reading the "Balfour declaration". I hope you were not  implying the British foreign minister did not promise the Jews a homeland?
The Jewish agency were informed sometime in 1937 that the "Permanent Mandates Commission" would not be able to deliver what the Jews wanted hence the beginning of Jewish terrorism against the Brits. I hope you're not off your medication because you're sounding like a blowhard. You're the one who pasted the letter written by the British foreign minister in which he said

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object.

The Jews only started throwing their toys out their prams when the League of nations refused to meet Jewish expectations.
You're making  davidylan look a genius but then I don't know how grueling it is for you to render thought.
A brief history of the "middle eastern conflict" is still on sale but it.

@davidylan
RichyBlack wrote

3. Have ever condemned the gulag called Guantanamo?

Your reply is

What is wrong with it?

I know this is a new concept to you but you don't win debates by displaying misanthropy, calling people names, screaming your head off etc.
This only turns you into a chipmunk, eek!! eek!!.

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
RichyBlack wrote, ''Have ever condemned the gulag called Guantanamo''? Your reply is I know this is a new concept to you but you don't win debates by displaying misanthropy,  calling people names, screaming your head off etc.
This  only turns you into a chipmunk,  eek!! eek!!.

The more apt response should have been that any reference of Guantanamo Bay as a ''gulag'' smacks of historical illiteracy, moral obtuseness and an obscenely egregious dimunition of the sufferings of the real Gulag inmates.

At least 10 million people were guests of the Soviet gulags which saw the deaths of over a million people; many of them women and children. Such is the crassness of modern discourse that  idiotic hyperboles are deployed in criticising perceived overreaches by the Bush administration.

As we post, there are more innocent people detained at Awka Central police station than in Guantanamo Bay.

4 Play:

The more apt response should have been that any reference of Guantanamo Bay as a ''gulag'' smacks of historical illiteracy, moral obtuseness and an obscenely egregious dimunition of the sufferings of the real Gulag inmates.

At least 10 million people were guests of the Soviet gulags which saw the deaths of over a million people; many of them women and children. Such is the crassness of modern discourse that  idiotic hyperboles are deployed in criticising perceived overreaches by the Bush administration.

As we post, there are more innocent people detained at Awka Central police station than in Guantanamo Bay.

The word in bold gave you away .

4 Play:

The more apt response should have been that any reference of Guantanamo Bay as a ''gulag'' smacks of historical illiteracy, moral obtuseness and an obscenely egregious dimunition of the sufferings of the real Gulag inmates.

At least 10 million people were guests of the Soviet gulags which saw the deaths of over a million people; many of them women and children. Such is the crassness of modern discourse that  idiotic hyperboles are deployed in criticising perceived overreaches by the Bush administration.

As we post, there are more innocent people detained at Awka Central police station than in Guantanamo Bay.

What's your point? To refresh our memories of Stalin's perceived overreaches?

Granted, Stalin had a dark side, but that is not the focus of the thread. This thread is about the George W. Bush, the epitome of incompetence in the present age.

4 Play:

The more apt response should have been that any reference of Guantanamo Bay as a ''gulag'' smacks of historical illiteracy, moral obtuseness and an obscenely egregious dimunition of the sufferings of the real Gulag inmates.

Lai wo we 

Ol'boy,your vocab na die !! 

However,inasmuch as I appreciate Bush's point of view,you'll agree with me he was probably overwhelmed by 911 & took some wrong decisions. We can't justify illegality.

congoshine:

Lai wo we 

Ol'boy,your vocab na die !! 

However,inasmuch as I appreciate Bush's point of view,you'll agree with me he was probably overwhelmed by 911 & took some wrong decisions. We can't justify illegality.

That is the simple principle Davidylan and 4 Play don't understand. How can you justify GWB's senseless actions all in the name of fighting a war against a noun?

RichyBlacK:

What's your point? To refresh our memories of Stalin's perceived overreaches?

Granted, Stalin had a dark side, but that is not the focus of the thread. This thread is about the George W. Bush, the epitome of incompetence in the present age.

You crudely deploy hyperbole and euphemisms with scant regard for reality. Stalin had a dark side? Stalin atrocities match, even surpass by some historical accounts, Hitler's.

To refer to Guantanamo as a gulag is crass. Nothing illustrates much of the intellectual bankruptcy of Bush critiques as the absurd mutilation of history and use of hyperbole.

Gitmo has been running for 7 years and not even Obama has fashioned any clear cut plans on how to deal with its inmates and future captives. Back in WWII, FDR's solution was to detain every single person of Japanese origin, this is currently the best of all possible evils.

davidylan:

Shows how little of the media you really know. Besides FOX . . . CNN, BBC, ABC and MSNBC are fierce critics of the US-led war in Iraq.

"Fierce" is too strong a word in this case, sorry. Moreover, they only opposed the war after it went sour. During the run-up to the war, they were all beating the drums!

What "atrocities" by Israel do you talk about? please tell us. which actions? Defending themselves?

You always ask this question feigning some kind of ignorance. Israel's IDF is the most powerful terrorist group in the entire middle-east!

Human Rights Watch (Headquarters in New York City, NY USA)
Israeli forces have systematically failed to distinguish between combatants and civilians in their military campaign against Hezbollah in Lebanon, Human Rights Watch said in report released today.

The pattern of attacks in more than 20 cases investigated by Human Rights Watch researchers in Lebanon indicates that the failures cannot be dismissed as mere accidents and cannot be blamed on wrongful Hezbollah practices. In some cases, these attacks constitute war crimes.
Source: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20060804_human_rights_watch_israel/


Haaretz (Headquarters in Tel Aviv, Israel) and Amnesty International (Headquarters in London, UK)
Amnesty: Israel committed war crimes in Lebanon campaign
By The Associated Press

LONDON - In a report to be released Wednesday, Amnesty International accuses Israel of war crimes, saying it broke international law by deliberately destroying Lebanon's civilian infrastructure during its recent war with Hezbollah guerrillas.

The human rights group said initial evidence, including the pattern and scope of the Israeli attacks, high number of civilian casualties, widespread damage and statements by Israeli officials "indicate that such destruction was deliberate and part of a military strategy, rather than 'collateral damage.'"

Amnesty International, whose delegates monitored the fighting in both Israel and Lebanon, said Israel violated international laws banning direct attacks on civilians and barring indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks.
Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/753972.html

No, for the following reasons:

1. Before 1948, the term palestinian refered to Jews only.

This is a blatant lie my friend! Stop this childishness already!

2. Jordan is 85% of the original palestinian Mandate, why is that not considered an "illegal occupation"?

Please desist from this form of historical revisionism! It is leading you nowhere.

3. Egypt had Gaza between 1948 and 1967 ditto for Jordan and the "West Bank" . . . the name actually comes from Jordanian authorities NOT the usurpers presently crying foul today . . . did anyone consider it "illegal occupation" then?

Irrelevant to the discourse at hand!

Even your friend George W. Bush has said that Israel has to pull out of the occupied territories. You may be the only person in the universe under the illusion that Israel's occupation of Palestinian territories is "legal".

What is wrong with it? Are there no gulags in the UK or even Nigeria? Why is this gulag of particular interest to hypocrites?
Is it populated by the wrongly accused? Since when did it become a crime to incarcerate terrorists?

Even your man Barack Obama, the man you campaigned so hard for, has condemned the illegality of Guantanamo. Two US Supreme court rulings have also exposed the crime called "Gitmo"

99% of the killings have been carried out by Iraqis and other terrorist groups. Where is your condemnation?

If the American killing machines had not lied their way into Iraq, close to a million Iraqis would not have lost their lives within 5 years of brutal US occupation.

In war there is what is called collateral damage. If those "innocent" folks love their lives then let them give up Osama Bn Laden.
Where were you when Osama killed thousands of innocent American women and children?

So, killing innocent women and children in the mountains of Afghanistan is okay because the US wants Osama bin Laden at any cost? It's comments like this that make me wonder what type of soul has claimed your mind. What is the point of all the sermons you hear at church, if you cannot condemn, without reservation, the killing of innocent women and children. May the God you serve forgive your hatred towards those who don't share your beliefs.

Hogwash.
Yeah when Israelis or Americans die i'd love to see you put up threads to condemn it.

When one Israeli dies from a bicycle accident near a town where a rocket was fired, CNN and the rest of the Western media beam the news 24/7. However, when 100 Palestinians are killed by one of Israel's one-tonne bombs, it hardly makes the news.


It is no secret that you hate the Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims generally, but you should put into practice the teachings from your Torah or Bible. There is no point claiming to be a Christian when you:
1. Support torture (Guantanamo)
2. Support murder (killing of innocent women and children) - because they are Muslim?
3. Support Apartheid (Israel is an Apartheid state)
4. Support mass-killings (the US killing machines have brought carnage to Iraq)

congoshine:

Lai wo we  ;DOl'boy,your vocab na die !! 
However,inasmuch as I appreciate Bush's point of view,you'll agree with me he was probably overwhelmed by 911 & took some wrong decisions. We can't justify illegality.

A measure is illegal only in so far as it has been determined to be in breach of law. Tell me what law Gitmo breaches: domestic law or international law?

The issue of Gitmo is complex and should not lend to simplistic characterisations.