seagulsntrawler:


It may interest you that the I.D of mohammed atta, one of the 9/11 alleged perpetrators, was found at ground zero. That means it survived the aircraft explosion and debris from the building collapse and all the intense heat generated leading to the collapse.
Can intense heat and panic also make the I.D to slip of his hip pocket? Perhaps he had it stuck on his shirt or trouser during the operation.

Those in the know are aware that Israel is the king of false flag attacks and I don't want to derail this thread by delving into that.

* First it wasn't Atta's but Suqami's passport(soaked in 'jet fuel').
* If they can find a body still strapped to one of the airplane's seat, why is it impossible to find an undamaged passport at the site?.
* Dude I'm a die hard fan of conspiracy theories too, but I don't delve into them with a 'made-up mind', I delve into them to learn...Contd.

...Contd

Okay let all pretend a second that it really is a false flag, can you at least back it up with some substancial proof? Y'all are just screaming about ID.
* this is about the paris attack, let deal with that and leave out 9/11 consiracy theory.

Al queda claimed responsibility for a fake attack?

cirmuell:
...Contd

Okay let all pretend a second that it really is a false flag, can you at least back it up with some substancial proof? Y'all are just screaming about ID.
* this is about the paris attack, let deal with that and leave out 9/11 consiracy theory.

It is convenient for him to leave his I.D behind cos the while thing was contrived from the word go. We were made to believe they were trained AQAP operatives and had planned this for a while. Only to bungle their getaway and to compromise their identity with the I.D incident.
You don't leave your house with guns, masks for such operation and still carry an I.D along when anonymity/secrecy is very crucial to the success of the operation.

Whichever way you look at it, the western and main stream media can never be trusted to define our sense of reality because there are so many questions but few answers here.

seagulsntrawler:


It is convenient for him to leave his I.D behind cos the while thing was contrived from the word go. We were made to believe they were trained AQAP operatives and had planned this for a while. Only to bungle their getaway and to compromise their identity with the I.D incident.
You don't leave your house with guns, masks for such operation and still carry an I.D along when anonymity/secrecy is very crucial to the success of the operation.

Whichever way you look at it, the western and main stream media can never be trusted to define our sense of reality because there are so many questions but few answers here.

We're just going in circles with this ID issue. My stance is, it may or may not be a false flag. ciao

Mondisweets:
Al queda claimed responsibility for a fake attack?

Please research the link between the CIA, british intelligence, al wahabism, islamic fundamentalism and also, how al qaeda and ISIS came into existence. They are all leprotic fingers of the same hand.

cirmuell:
We're just going in circles with this ID issue. My stance is, it may or may not be a false flag. ciao

Whatever suits you.

Cheers.

gatiano:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIoXLnj_dXI

it had always been a false flag from the beginning. who do the bible refer to as the liar, murderer and trickster?

cirmuell:
...Contd

How they were able to identify them?
* The french police has been on their(may be one of the brothers) case no be today, they just didn't see them as a big threat. Both were born raised an radicalized in France. That means they've got all the info on these guys, a simple ID left by one of them is enough to tell who he is and a background check to know who is with him(all this can happen within just minutes, no be Nigeria where there's no single record or database)

* Like I mentioned earlier, the fact that he's with an ID is another issue entirely(& no one can ever know why he's with it). But guy, even high caliber 'masked' robbers have been caught with their ID's found on crimes scenes(did they go with it intentionally too? and left it there intentionally?) did you see how sloppy those guys were? Did you notice they even almost ran into eachother? Did you see the other guy pick something from the floor beside the hatchback getaway car? tell me that's a guy that wanna leave 'anything' behind.

Good points. But lets take these issues one after the other.

1) The french police had been walking on them since... This makes it the more interesting. If they have been working thier case ever since, it then implies that, they must have been monitoring them, easvesdropping on thier conversations, bugging thier communications, agents trailing thier every moves, keeping close tabs on thier level and degree of interrelationships with the outside, etc etc etc.. Therefore, they (the seurities) are able to pre-empt them before they could carry out thier nefarious activities.. This is what intelligence bodies do,not to mention the highly sophisticated nature of the French Secret Service. But was this the case? Never! Rather, what we have is a situation in which, the police were ' miraclelously' able to identify the suspects by virtue of a ' wonderfully' forgoten ID card-- The same set of people on which they had a 'complete dossier'. Does it make any sense at all?

The whole thing smells of a foul play, even from afar...

2) On the ID... Pls dont make me laugh. We are not talking of some shoplifters whose carelessness and recklessness can make them pass for ' Sony Max World Most Dumbest Criminals' on Nash videos. Nor are we talking about an armed robber with the usual level of adrenaline and operating in panick mode, thereby becoming susceptible to such errors. What we are talking about is people with high intelligence, the criminaloids. People who plan in stages and reason geometrically. Who carefully mapped out thier strategies, weighed the cost and chances of success or failure. People that knows no fear, cos they understand that, the ultimate price, is death. A death which they see as 'a holy passge to paradise', hence, no reason to fear. Such is the nature of a true religious and islamic extremist.
But since any of these was not evident in this case, the excuse that the suspects out of panick and fear left the ID behind, does not hold water.

The ID card thing is a clear copy from 9/11.

3) On the video... If one is not bias, then a careful and critical study of the footage should reveal that there were series of ' cut-ins and cut-outs' editing, as it relate to the movement, apperance and disappearance of the suspects and police officers concerned. Pls just study the video..
Everyone cannot be fooled all the time.

4) On the suicide... It was at this stage that i shook my head in pity.. The lenght at which men can go in securing thier interesst... A police officer in charge of the investigation comits 'suicide'? A man that is full of life, healthy, not suffering from any terminal ailment, suddenly became disillusioned with life, and abruptly decided to ' pull the plug' on his life.....? Very pathetic. And What a perfect time to comit 'suicide'.
Yeah, of course, they will tell us the usual stories.. 'he has been self withrawn for some time now', 'or maybe the wife ran away' bla bla blah... How satanic this world has become..

But they didnt tell us that the man knew too much, nor are some of us considering that possibility. Instead, we chose to believe the 'false reality' dished out by the Main Stream Media. Just the same way many accepted the 9/11 lies, until now that the truth is in the open.

The circumstances surrounding the events in France, Ukrain etc, is a case of ' rep ipsa loquitor'...... The thing speaks for itself..

The evidence and facts does not lie...
And

Saw ur mention.
I'l be back bro

I realize that, “oftentimes excusing of a fault doth make the fault the worse by the excuse”… But, just as the news of the Charlie-Hebdo massacre hit the media, I was at alert..
To begin with, as already suggested by many outside the regime media, the attack smells of 9/11 from miles away. When (on 9/11), it was discovered that its architect and organizer was an emaciated Arab with a turban, a beard and bad kidneys. Who, from a cave on the other side of the world, designed an operation worthy of science-fiction, with science-fiction scenarios, resources and coincidences, and executed with science-fictional precision.
And there is a stunning detail, almost copied and pasted from 9/11. It would be funny, were it not for the tragic nature of both events. We must “season our admiration for a while with an attent ear, as the media delivers, upon the witness of the French police,this marvel to us.” The sophisticated French surveillance system discovered the identity of the terrorists thanks to an identity card, casually abandoned on the seat of the escape vehicle, by one of them.
Frenetically running away from the scene of the crime, the terrorist had, evidently, enough time to kill. So he pulled out his wallet, searched for the card and left it in plain view on the seat.
Much like the passport of Mohammed Atta, presumed leader of the 9/11 hijackers, miraculously found, clean and undamaged, among the remnants of the disintegrated skyscrapers. Like
Oscar Wilde’ said, “I believe anything provided it is quite incredible” perfectly fits the improbability. Or, more classically, like Antipholous of Syracuse in the Comedy of Errors, you may ask yourself, “...sleep I now and think I hear all this?”
I didn’t know of or read any issue of the Charlie-Hebdo magazine. But the cartoons, liberally published on the web, are, in my view, anything but funny. The semi-pornographic representations of a naked Mohammed are poor examples of even poorer taste. Without considering that, by ridiculing the Prophet, the Charlie-Hebdo cartoonists were deliberately offending 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. And they were also simultaneously ridiculing the poverty and the suffering, inflicted upon the Muslim world, by the rapacious and murdering arms of the Empire.
For, in a way unpredictable even 20 years ago, Islam has become the last and only credible opponent of imperial, neo-liberal economics. In other words, it is the only entity that, paradoxically, carries some echoes of the real Left – as opposed to the faux-intellectuals, liberal academics, captains of erudition, publicity seekers and sundry other pundits who, together, constitute the disposable and vendible “Caviar-Left.”
Besides, those who equate the Parisian terror attack to an attack on secularism, may want to ponder on another reality. That in many European countries ridiculing Jesus Christ, as the cartoonists ridiculed Mohammed, would end up with the ridiculer in jail, costing him very hefty fines and creating around himself a vacuum of respect.
Insulting a people because their God is different and because they are poor…. The jackals who mourn the loss of freedom of speech must have forgotten that insult triggers a reaction. That this type of insult, as a Russian saying goes, is a “spit on the soul.” And that some risk death rather than suffering insulted honor to remain un-revenged. “I beg mortality, rather than life preserved with infamy” goes a Shakespearean line but the message has a much more ancient history.
Furthermore, in the France of Voltaire, freedom of speech is anything but what it sounds. It is now illegal, for example, even to raise questions about the Holocaust.
French comedian Dieudonne’ has been judicially prevented from performing in public. And yet, listening to the available records of his performances on Youtube, the viewer has to concentrate really hard to find, in his tight Parisian argot, even a hint of satire – such as, for example, asking how many gas-chambers have been reconstructed in the concentration camp museums.
But that is enough for being accused of anti-Semitism. Not to speak of the media silence and justices’ indifference to the recurrent genocidal slaughters in Gaza and West Bank, or to the “NATO” drone killings at weddings and funerals, or to the thousands of civilians killed in Novorussia by the guns of the Ukrainian Junta forces.
So much for Western safeguard of “secular values” and freedom of speech.
It is not even a question of double standards. The media distorts the plainest facts into fanciful and imaginary narratives, leaving behind the sucking sound of a total ethical vacuum.

To be continued..

Continuation

For, who was the original assassins’ paymaster? Who decided to assassinate Ghadafi, Saddam, to invade Iraq twice, to turn Syria into a killing field, to set permanently in Afghanistan, to resume colonial control of so many African countries?
Starting with the “Mujaheddin” (freedom fighters) and for more than thirty years, the West has created, financed and armed extremist religious groups for its own interests – has supported any repressive, medieval and anachronistic petro-monarchy – has destroyed the few lay regimes, killing their leaders – has re-introduced torture. And now, it remotely kills desert peasants, supposed to be “enemies” (why and how they are so, we are not supposed to know, because of “National Security”).
Who is responsible or a conniver in the death of at least two million people?
For some talk-show narcissists, the slaughtered millions are not worth the life of a cartoonist, because shooting him is shooting against the freedom of expression. As if the regime media gave freedom of expression to any voice that may express an opposite point of view (see above). Not to speak of the Patriot Act (in the US), through which everyone is spied on, conditioned and preventively censured, among the almost total indifference of the citizenship.
Given the current state of media monopoly, freedom of expression means freedom to give voice to the voice of the profiteers. But who will profit from this Parisian carnage?
In more than one cynical way, it was just what the doctor ordered. Though Shakespeare would probably say, “Trust not the physician. His antidotes are poison and he slays more than you rob.”
The event removes the attention from Russia and exchanges Russia with a more malleable and less awkward enemy. Considering that the sanctions seriously damage European producers and may, in turn, produce a crack in the new world order.
Furthermore, these days, an external war is indispensable to cover-up the ongoing internal war of the rich against the poor. The cynical invention of an enemy diverts the reaction of the impoverished masses, rendered slaves of the plutocratic oligarchy, and“commanded always by the latest (media-blown) gust.” Confirming that, indeed, “such is the lightness of you common man.”
And the enemy is strategically wonderful. It is portrayed as threatening the western and European identity and tradition. A packaged message conveniently hiding the reality that the Thought-Unique (the practical meaning of the “European Union”) is destroying the roots of values established in two hundred years of conflicts and struggles – leaving now behind a vacuum of culture, an Everest of hypocrisy and affectation.
Welcome then the “conflict of civilizations”, at the time when the products of the neo-liberal civilization feel rank, and smell so much to heaven that they begin to even find hints of political opposition, in some quarters.
For, who knows, given the actual impoverishment of the 99%, someone may wonder if there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in neo-liberal philosophy. Something other than the latest smart-phone, built by slaves, and bought by slaves-in training, at prices one hundred times greater than the actual cost – the reward for the rich.
As an Italian writer put it, a conflict of civilizations suggests that a civilization still exists, while it is the enemy who attacks the freedom that we are losing.

God help us!

cirmuell:
...Contd

Okay let all pretend a second that it really is a false flag, can you at least back it up with some substancial proof? Y'all are just screaming about ID.
* this is about the paris attack, let deal with that and leave out 9/11 consiracy theory.

Nobody here is pretending or need be, cause when u connect the various dots together, it fits in well with ' a false flag'.

And how do you expect people not to mention 9/11, when the similarities/facts between the two events are closely knitted?

I wonder what else is 'substantial proof' if the issue of the ID card can not pass for proof.
And if all the viable circumstances and intrigues, ranging from ' the French Security knowledge of the suspects before now, but conspiciously have to 'rely' on 'a tip off' from the suspects themselves to 'identify them', down to the 'bizzar' movements and behaviour of ' well established terrorists' and the police, all within 'a comic' but well edited' footage,,,, that alot of reasonable persons here have mentioned.... If all of these could not pass as ' substantial proof' to you, one wonders (and a lawyer in equity like me does) what then constitute 'circumstantial evidence' that mostly form the basics of proof in the criminal courts of law...

This is the basics for proof in this case.

The circumstances connected by the chain of causal relativism, forms the nature of the inference drawn, based on the various factual dots linking each of the evidence..

The evidence does not lie..

@Appleyard, U're a lawyer?, little wonder. & I guess you're a muslim, yes? Well I'm a christian and I'm not on any side of the divide, I'm not in support of those #Charlie magazine stuffs neither do I condone the actions of the "terrorists". That should clear the air on where i stand.

1) In Law, "you are a suspect(not a big threat) until proven guilty(certified terrorist)" right? . Reports said they never saw these guys as big threat, yes they had one of them under watch probably for a brief period. They were probably more fixated on foriegn terrorists, they never expected the possibility of home-grown ones. If for example you travel to Iraq today & I started keeping tabs on you when you returned, where's the point in still watching you if you make no suspicious move after several years?(you've convinced me I have no reason to be too worried about you) That doesn't mean I don't have your records(everything about your life)...Contd

.

Contd...
2) I said High caliber robbers/criminals not petty thieves and shoplifters. I repeat, it could be that the I.D either dropped(out of negligence) from that guy or it was somewhere in the car's compartment prior to the attack.
Now what is your argument on the I.D about? That it was placed by French police or that the Said brothers(working for "whoever-planned" the attack) dropped it intentionaly? What is even "high inteligence" about those clumsy brothers? The Said brothers are disgruntled guys who 've had enough of #charlie & threw caution to the wind, those guys were in no way professionals. If they ever mapped-out that attack, it's probably how to get to their destination easily(I.D comes in here), cause as much damage as possible and get away as far as possible or end it there. I doubt if terrorist give a poo about wether they'd be I.D'd or not, their major concern would be to use any means possible to cause as much damage as possible before they get caught or killed, nothing to lose.

3) Which version? 'cause there are more than one video/clips of that incident on the internet.

4) The Officer in charge that commited suicide left me wondering too though.

more connecting dots.....



Indian Paper Confirms Charlie Hebdo is Owned By Zionist J**z....The Rothschild Family...To Be Exact


Date: Friday, 23-Jan-2015 20:39:34

Now we can better understand why they only Caricature Christians and Mooselims, and why a cartoonist was fired over his 'anti-semetic' art.
-----------------------------------------------

Zionist hand revealed: Rothschild family had purchased Charlie Hebdo in December 2014
2015-01-22 09:43:27


According to revelations from a very credible Dutch Business magazine, Quote, on the 9th January, and confirmed by German Newspaper Neopresse on 19th January, Charlie Hebdo was sold to the Rothschild family in December 2014.

It appears that this acquisition was the subject of heated discussions among family members according to the Baron Philippe de Rothschild, who recently gave an interview to Quote magazine published in January.

“There was a discussion concerning the acquisition that was completed by my uncle Baron Edouard de Rothschild” Philippe said. “Certain family members wanted to prevent the purchase, because they felt the purchase of this daily publication would be seen as giving us political influence. We wanted to avoid that at all costs. We do not want to be seen to be involved in politics, at least not in such a transparent way! In the end the family reticence was overcome”

Baron Philippe Rothschild informed Quote that the acquisition of Charlie Hebdo was finalised in December 2014.

It is clear that it was not met with approval by the whole family in the `underworld’, but it is also clear that the problem lay with the high profile nature of this purchase. As Philippe explained, the Rothschild family does not wish to meddle in politics “at least not overtly”!

The problem it appears, was that purchase of Charlie Hebdo would bring the Rothschild’s subversive involvement to the surface.

It does not need much imagination to create a link between this purchase only weeks before the attack on the daily satirical media outlet that was already a known Zionist platform for hate speech.

Let us not forget that since the attack, the magazine is rumoured to have received 20 million euros from the Government and its sales have boomed exponentially.

It is maybe the same way of thinking that would lead us to question the sale of the Twin Towers of the World Trade Centre to Larry Silverstein in the summer of 2001, followed by their destruction in an alleged “terrorist” attack in September of the same year. Particularly as it is known now that Silverstein changed the terms of his insurance to cover unexpected terrorist attacks only six weeks before the attack.

This information cannot be presented as categorical proof of Zionist involvement in the Charlie Hebdo attacks but it must make us think and consider all possibilities. It must most certainly make us question the mainstream media narrative that is already so full of anomalies.

Vanessa Beeley, International Correspondent, Medhaj News

http://medhajnews.com/article.php?id=NjAwMA==

cirmuell:
@Appleyard, U're a lawyer?, little wonder. & I guess you're a muslim, yes? Well I'm a christian and I'm not on any side of the divide, I'm not in support of those #Charlie magazine stuffs neither do I condone the actions of the "terrorists". That should clear the air on where i stand.

1) In Law, "you are a suspect(not a big threat) until proven guilty(certified terrorist)" right? . Reports said they never saw these guys as big threat, yes they had one of them under watch probably for a brief period. They were probably more fixated on foriegn terrorists, they never expected the possibility of home-grown ones. If for example you travel to Iraq today & I started keeping tabs on you when you returned, where's the point in still watching you if you make no suspicious move after several years?(you've convinced me I have no reason to be too worried about you) That doesn't mean I don't have your records(everything about your life)...Contd

Yeah, I am a lawyer in equity.
No, am no muslim, but a christian, also sitting on d divide fence, just like you.

You c, I understand ur points, but when u are a lawyer, u are bound to reason logically and indeptly, connecting the facts of a given case, understanding the motives, ad it may be, and above all, drawing an inference based on the evidence and circumstances surrounding the issue, or the facts in issue of the case or problem in question.
It is under these inherent principles that, when one rigorously and analytically sujected this same issue at hand, one would, in little or no doubt, be able to see that all is not black and white as being postulated. Because, the facts are speaking otherwise.

Appleyard:


Yeah, I am a lawyer in equity.
No, am no muslim, but a christian, also sitting on d divide fence, just like you.

You c, I understand ur points, but when u are a lawyer, u are bound to reason logically and indeptly, connecting the facts of a given case, understanding the motives, ad it may be, and above all, drawing an inference based on the evidence and circumstances surrounding the issue, or the facts in issue of the case or problem in question.
It is under these inherent principles that, when one rigorously and analytically sujected this same issue at hand, one would, in little or no doubt, be able to see that all is not black and white as being postulated. Because, the facts are speaking otherwise.

I agree with you.
What I was trying to do is look at this scenerio from different angles, exploring all the possibilities. I'm always of the opinion that if you can't prove it, don't pass it across as fact(I'm not bothered if you strongly believe in your opinion, what pisses me off is people trying to sholve their opinion down other people's throat when they clearly have their own contratry opinion/view). #Shalom bro.