What real evidence can be supplied for God's
existence? St. Thomas, in his Summa
Theologica, sets forth five separate proofs for
the existence of God, Unlike St. Anselm's
proof, which deals with pure concepts, St.
Thomas' proofs rely on the world of our
experience-what we can see around us. In
these proofs we can easily see the influence of
Aristotle and his doctrine of the Four Causes.

l) The Proof from Motion. We observe motion
all around us. Whatever is in motion now was
at rest until moved by something else, and that
by something else, and so on. But if there were
an infinite series of movers, all waiting to be
moved by something else, then actual motion
could never have got started, and there would
be no motion now. But there is motion now.
So there must be a First Mover which is itself
unmoved. This First Mover we call God.

2) The Proof from Efficient Cause. Everything
in the world has its efficient cause--its maker--
and that maker has its maker, and so on. The
coffee table was made by the carpenter, the
carpenter by his or her parents, and on and
on. But if there were just an infinite series of
such makers, the series could never have got
started, and therefore be nothing now. But
there is something everything there is! So there
must have been a First Maker, that was not
itself made, and that First Maker we call God.

3) The Proof from Necessary vs. Possible
Being. Possible, or contingent, beings are
those, such as cars and trees and you and I,
whose existence is not necessary. For all such
beings there is a time before they come to be
when they are not yet, and a time after they
cease to be when they are no more. If
everything were merely possible, there would
have been a time, long ago, when nothing had
yet come to be. Nothing comes from nothing,
so in that case there would be nothing now!
But there is something now-the world and
everything in it-so there must be at least one
necessary being. This Necessary Being we call
God.

4) The Proof from Degrees of Perfection. We
all evaluate things and people in terms of their
being more or less perfectly true, good, noble
and so on. We have certain standards of how
things and people should be. But we would
have no such standards unless there were
some being that is perfect in every way,
something that is the truest, noblest, and best.
That Most Perfect Being we call God.

5) The Proof from Design. As we look at the
world around us, and ourselves, we see ample
evidence of design--the bird's wing, designed
for the purpose of flight; the human ear,
designed for the purpose of hearing; the
natural environment, designed to support life;
and on and on. If there is design, there must
be a designer. That Designer we call God

What difference does it make if we don't call it God?

undercat:
What difference does it make if we don't call it God?

what exactly is your point??

LOSKYXANDER:

what exactly is your point??

The arguments are beautiful, but I don't think they refer to a living thing. If God is not a living thing, what are we then to do with it?

Thanks

Why is it that when theists try to prove god's existence, they take the POV of a deist? This says nothing about the God of the bible/quran/torah. These are all assertions without proof. "I don't know what started motion, therefore, God"(no.1), "I don't know how the universe came to be, therefore God"(no.2 & 3). That's called God of the gaps fallacy. Perfection is subjective(no. 4). Evolution explains no.5.

LOSKYXANDER:
What real evidence can be supplied for God's
existence? St. Thomas, in his Summa
Theologica, sets forth five separate proofs for
the existence of God, Unlike St. Anselm's
proof, which deals with pure concepts, St.
Thomas' proofs rely on the world of our
experience-what we can see around us. In
these proofs we can easily see the influence of
Aristotle and his doctrine of the Four Causes.

l) The Proof from Motion. We observe motion
all around us. Whatever is in motion now was
at rest until moved by something else, and that
by something else, and so on. But if there were
an infinite series of movers, all waiting to be
moved by something else, then actual motion
could never have got started, and there would
be no motion now. But there is motion now.
So there must be a First Mover which is itself
unmoved. This First Mover we call God.

2) The Proof from Efficient Cause. Everything
in the world has its efficient cause--its maker--
and that maker has its maker, and so on. The
coffee table was made by the carpenter, the
carpenter by his or her parents, and on and
on. But if there were just an infinite series of
such makers, the series could never have got
started, and therefore be nothing now. But
there is something everything there is! So there
must have been a First Maker, that was not
itself made, and that First Maker we call God.

3) The Proof from Necessary vs. Possible
Being. Possible, or contingent, beings are
those, such as cars and trees and you and I,
whose existence is not necessary. For all such
beings there is a time before they come to be
when they are not yet, and a time after they
cease to be when they are no more. If
everything were merely possible, there would
have been a time, long ago, when nothing had
yet come to be. Nothing comes from nothing,
so in that case there would be nothing now!
But there is something now-the world and
everything in it-so there must be at least one
necessary being. This Necessary Being we call
God.

4) The Proof from Degrees of Perfection. We
all evaluate things and people in terms of their
being more or less perfectly true, good, noble
and so on. We have certain standards of how
things and people should be. But we would
have no such standards unless there were
some being that is perfect in every way,
something that is the truest, noblest, and best.
That Most Perfect Being we call God.

5) The Proof from Design. As we look at the
world around us, and ourselves, we see ample
evidence of design--the bird's wing, designed
for the purpose of flight; the human ear,
designed for the purpose of hearing; the
natural environment, designed to support life;
and on and on. If there is design, there must
be a designer. That Designer we call God

soory i have to tell you my mind
theories cant explain who God is
mans mind is too finite to define the supremacy of God
or the excellency of his wisdom and power
our brain cant fathom his strenght
even if GOD came down today and says he isnt GOD and GOD dont exist
believe me id still follow him
nothing can SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD
NOTHING

DProDG:
Why is it that when theists try to prove god's existence, they take the POV of a deist? This says nothing about the God of the bible/quran/torah. These are all assertions without proof. "I don't know what started motion, therefore, God"(no.1), "I don't know how the universe came to be, therefore God"(no.2 & 3). That's called God of the gaps fallacy. Perfection is subjective(no. 4). Evolution explains no.5.

Nothing can come out of nothing. The same case applies to the universe. Please note that the universe exists in time and space. Before the beginning of the universe, time was reset to zero, meaning that there was no past, no future nor even a present. This is the realm God exists in. I am very sure you cannot imagine a situation were time did not exist because it is beyond human understanding. Time in its philosophical sense was created by God along with the universe, A superior being without a begining. Like I said, beyond human understanding

I cant believe someone just posted this Op above... smh

This proves God?

Mchewwww... I was expecting to see a picture.

LOSKYXANDER:

Nothing can come out of nothing. The same case applies to the universe. Please note that the universe exists in time and space. Before the beginning of the universe, time was reset to zero, meaning that there was no past, no future nor even a present. This is the realm God exists in. I am very sure you cannot imagine a situation were time did not exist because it is beyond human understanding. Time in its philosophical sense was created by God along with the universe, A superior being without a begining. Like I said, beyond human understanding

And please when did God start existing? and how?

LOSKYXANDER:

Nothing can come out of nothing. The same case applies to the universe. Please note that the universe exists in time and space. Before the beginning of the universe, time was reset to zero, meaning that there was no past, no future nor even a present. This is the realm God exists in. I am very sure you cannot imagine a situation were time did not exist because it is beyond human understanding. Time in its philosophical sense was created by God along with the universe, A superior being without a begining. Like I said, beyond human understanding

nothing can come out of nothing but you believe this ur deity (god) came out nothing right? now if nothing can come out of.nothing it means this ur god cant come out of nothing so who created this ur god and who created the god that created ur god and so the chain keeps going?

johnydon22:

nothing can come out of nothing but you believe this ur deity (god) came out nothing right? now if nothing can come out of.nothing it means this ur god cant come out of nothing so who created this ur god and who created the god that created ur god and so the chain keeps going?

Please go back to the first point I gave which was explained with the idea of motion. Study it criticaly and you will answer your question by yourself

OP, you ended up proving nothing.
Muslims and Christians are really dumbhead that they can't prove the existence of their theistic God(Allah & Yahweh).

What you just proved is the way a deist believes in God in no relation to yours.

Going by your post, any form of religion can use this logic to prove the existence of their God--even Beyonce's religion.

Prove the existence of your supernatural biblical Yahweh and Quaranic Allah, not delving into our own way(deistic way).

asala1:


And please when did God start existing? and how?

God never started to exist, he has always been. In his existence there is no begining because he existed before time. There are a lot of mysteries we humans do not understand yet. At least not while on earth

signor11:



soory i have to tell you my mind
theories cant explain who God is
mans mind is too finite to define the supremacy of God

But a mere mortal man, penned down stories, "chapters by chapters" and call it bible and quaran but you believed.
Now, Mans mind can't explain who the supremacy & existence of God - talk more of hypocrisy and delusion grandeur.

or the excellency of his wisdom and power
our brain cant fathom his strenght

How can you expect atheists to fathom the wisdom and power of a belief based on assumption.
More like, telling you my friend lives in Abuja but he doesn't and I'm expecting you to disprove it or fathom what he's doing there.

even if GOD came down today and says he isnt GOD and GOD dont exist
believe me id still follow him
nothing can SEPARATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD
NOTHING

Are you aware how contradictory your statement, is?

FrancisTony:
OP, you ended up proving nothing.
Muslims and Christians are really dumbhead that they can't prove the existence of their theistic God(Allah & Yahweh).

What you just proved is the way a deist believes in God in no relation to yours.

Going by your post, any form of religion can use this logic to prove the existence of their God--even Beyonce's religion.

Prove the existence of your supernatural biblical Yahweh and Quaranic Allah, not delving into our own way(deistic way).

very funny...SMH but I went through your profile and discovered that you are a catholic. Or are you now an atheist?

LOSKYXANDER:

very funny...SMH but I went through your profile and discovered that you are a catholic. Or are you now an atheist?

I'm a deist...

LOSKYXANDER:

Please go back to the first point I gave which was explained with the idea of motion. Study it criticaly and you will answer your question by yourself

lmao...assumptions!!!

Do I have to point out how many fallacies are in your statements?
1. Secundum quid
2. Exception Fallacy
3. Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Do I have to explain them to you too?

LOSKYXANDER:

God never started to exist, he has always been. In his existence there is no beginning because he existed before time. There are a lot of mysteries we humans do not understand yet. At least not while on earth

You are having a double standard here. You agree that God does not have a creator and has been from the beginning but you don't agree that the universe can come out of nothing just like God.

asala1:


You are having a double standard here. You agree that God does not have a creator and has been from the beginning but you don't agree that the universe can come out of nothing just like God.

Exactly!!!

LOSKYXANDER:

Exactly!!!

So how does "god" escape a beginning?

davien:
So how does "god" escape a beginning?

God simply has no beginning. Time exists in the mind while eternity is above our understanding. Besides I never knew there were so many atheists on nairaland

FrancisTony:

But a mere mortal man, penned down stories, "chapters by chapters" and call it bible and quaran but you believed.
Now, Mans mind can't explain who the supremacy & existence of God - talk more of hypocrisy and delusion grandeur.


How can you expect atheists to fathom the wisdom and power of a belief based on assumption.
More like, telling you my friend lives in Abuja but he doesn't and I'm expecting you to disprove it or fathom what he's doing there.


Are you aware how contradictory your statement, is?

i laugh
never knew your one of them

LOSKYXANDER:

God simply has no beginning. Time exists in the mind while eternity is above our understanding. Besides I never knew there were so many atheists on nairaland

And how did you figure out all of this?

johnydon22:

nothing can come out of nothing but you believe this ur deity (god) came out nothing right? now if nothing can come out of.nothing it means this ur god cant come out of nothing so who created this ur god and who created the god that created ur god and so the chain keeps going?

God is a spirit,He existed in a timeless eternity, the universe was created together with time meaning God exist in a realm where caused and effect are not real.

malvisguy212:
God is a spirit,He existed in a timeless eternity, the universe was created together with time meaning God exist in a realm where caused and effect are not real.

lolzzz Constant assumptions!!!
Timeless and eternity
nawa ooooo!!!

johnydon22:

lolzzz Constant assumptions!!!
Timeless and eternity
nawa ooooo!!!

science say time has a beginning,what caused time?

malvisguy212:
science say time has a beginning,what caused time?

Time has a beginning can you please show me the source where you read this from?
scientists that proposed it?
The field of study?
Provide them let me see for myself please bro

johnydon22:

Time has a beginning can you please show me the source where you read this from?
scientists that proposed it?
The field of study?
Provide them let me see for myself please bro

Stephen Hawkins and Albert einstine. Extended the equation of general relativity to include space and time, it indicates time has a beginning
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_epoch

Can time exist if no
event is happening anywhere?
http://www.iep.utm.edu/time/

malvisguy212:
Stephen Hawkins and Albert einstine. Extended the equation of general relativity to include space and time, it indicates time has a beginning
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_epoch

Can time exist if no
event is happening anywhere?
http://www.iep.utm.edu/time/

And where did any of these sources indicate time had a beginning?
I dont think you understand what is meant by time here, Do you?