Check them out here

Olabowale, can you oblige with some answers, please?

@Huxley: I went to the sight. Please write the Questions down and even including the bonus round. I will answer, Allah willing each and every one of them. Other Muslims will, too. The music is very distracting and I can not write fast to be able to get the accurate picture of your "Skeptic" guy.

@Huxley

Check them out here

Olabowale, can you oblige with some answers, please?

Just like Olabowale said, bring up the questions and you would surely be attended to INSHA ALLAH and you must be able to stand up to your claim just like you have been doing in other forum.

Goodluck in your quest for the truth

1) Why did Allah allow the words of the Old Testament prophets to become corrupt? Speaking to prophets and then not preserving the words seem to render the entire exercise in having prophets a moot point

@Huxley: « #3 on: Today at 09:02:15 PM »

1) Why did Allah allow the words of the Old Testament prophets to become corrupt? Speaking to prophets and then not preserving the words seem to render the entire exercise in having prophets a moot point

There is no need to think that Allah Who Wills that the process of His revelations be in stages, starting from Leaflets or Pamphlets (Suhuf), like the one that was given to Ibrahim (AS). Please this is mentioned in Surah Ala, in the last verse of it.

Then we see that Allah reveal a bigger volume, as in Taurah to Musa, who had to shephard a greater people, the Children of Israel. Since it is the will of Allah that the Taurah will not be the end of His Revelation to mankind, we see that there was no change or corruption in the taurah, during the time of Musa (AS). He Musa being the human guard of that book.

But please know that while Musa was alive, you had true believers, weak believers and hypocrites among the Children of Israel. And my proofs are many. But I will leave you with the building of golden calf as a primary proof. Even if they had believed that Musa was dead, was this enough to abandone the God Who had single handledly saved from the slavery of Egypt and provided them with manna from heaven?

It was not so surprising that after Musa, in time the Children of Israel corrupted the Taurah to fit their "need", coming up with a Taurah that is not 100% as what Musa left behind. The Children of Israel, as any human have free will. Therefore you see many throughout their lives, shunning evil and trying to worship God as they see successive prophets do, who came to stir them back to the right part, and lead them away from corrupted belief and book. The Children of Israel even developed "Talmuth", and occult known as kabala, today.



We also know that Allah gave Sabur (Psalm) to Prophet and King David (AS). It is a way to correct the people as well. After that the Injil (New Testament) came to Isa bin Mariam (AS). In each successive revelations, leading to the last and final revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah allows the human mind in the always willing to defy truth, (Like your Huxley as a good example, except that you are out and honest about your disbelief) we do not see in the Bible, the Old, the New Testament, and the Sabur and in the Qur'aan, that revelation of Allah ends, with any, except in the Qur'an where it says so about the Qur'aan, alone.

Why is this so? Prior to the Qur'aan, the process was just a continuous succession of revelations, leading to the final one. The final revelation will have to come with the final Messenger and Prophet. It also have to definitely prove to be final. And have to be different and be vouch save and be safeguarded.

1). Surah Azhab speaks about Muhammad (AS) as the final Messanger and the seal (ending of) of prophets.

2). Surah Al Maida speaks about a complete circle of favor on mankind, where by Islam has been perfected and other religions are now completely rejected.

3). Allah Himself said that He will safeguard The Qur'aan and will not allow any corruption to enter it.

So we see that even muslims of different sects still have the same Qur'aan. There is no new religion after the brand of Islam given to Muhammad (AS). Hence anyone who says (Upstate New York's Joseph Smith) he is a prophet is a liar. Incidentally, the question one would have Joseph Smith is this; didn't Jesus gave to the Christians a good and complete guidelines in the NT as his revelation that you have to come witha "Supplimentary?" But of course, my question was already answered even from the Bible as no, since we have acts of Apostles and the rest of the New Testaments apart from the four Gospels as Books after the time of Jesus on earth!

@Huxley

1)  Why did Allah allow the words of the Old Testament prophets to become corrupt?  Speaking to prophets and then not preserving the words seem to render the entire exercise in having prophets a moot point.

Firstly all prophets except the last prophet Muhammad (saw) were sent to their community.

Allah gave them freedom and entrusted them with the revelations but the scribes:

Jeremiah 8 v 8: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. 

The Torah was not altered during Moses' and Muhammad's time and still in its original state. But the Jews had so much disputes among themselves and ended losing the original revelation. They broke up into tribes and had no true judaism.I believe Allah allowed the alteration with regards to this hadith due to breakig their covenant:

Narrated Ubaidullah:  "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!'  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)" 

These are the verses butressing the above hadith in the Quran:

Quran 5:13 : "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them[/b]; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)." 

Quran 5:41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. [b]They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."

After the alterations and the lost in the original messages (torah and Injil), Allah then revealed the last message through the last prophet with this message of assurance and its being preserved till today, no versions going against each other:

Quran 15 v 9: "We have, without a doubt, sent down the Message (The Quran); and We (Allah) will assuredly Guard it [from corruption]. "

Next question please

Under each verse, there are question for you to answer. You can read the quran online at quranexplorer.com

Suratu Maryam 19:12

God says, "`Oh Yahya! (John the Baptist) take hold of the Book with might': and We gave him wisdom as a youth."

Question: Will allah ask Yahya to take hold of a corrupt book?

Ali `Imran 3:48

"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel."

Question: Will God teach a corrupt Torah and gospel?

Al-Tahrim 66:12

And Mary the daughter of `Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into her (body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (Servants)."

Question: Will Mary testify of a corrupted revelations?

Ali `Imran) 3:49-50

Jesus says, "I have come to you, attesting to (the truth of) what is between my hands of the Torah, and to make lawful to you a part of that which is forbidden to you."

Question: Will Jesus attest to a fake Book?

Al-Saff 61:6

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: `Oh Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God to you, confirming that which IS between my hands from the Torah, '"

Question: Was a fake book that Jesus confirmed?

Al-Ma'ida 5:49

"And in their footsteps (of Moses and the Jews) We sent Jesus the son of Mary, attesting to (the truth of) the Torah which was between his hands; and We gave him the Gospel - therein is guidance and light and attesting to (the truth of) the Torah which was between his hands: a guidance and an admonition to the righteous."

Question: Can there be guidance and light in a corrupted book?

Al-Ma'ida 5:113.

"Then will God say, `O Jesus son of Mary! Recount my favor to you and to your mother when I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit, so that you spoke to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel,

Question: Do you believe that God will teach Jesus a fake Book?

The bible says that the only way to heaven is repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ, otherwise you are on your way to hell!
God forbids! Acts of the apostle 12:4

C'mon, those were the time before the books were corrupt, we muslim believe in the original Torah and the Gospel, disbelieving in them is breaking one of the article of faith - check the last two verse of Baqarah. So is the same tactic applied to Maryam and co, they believed in the original and not the corrupted own, the message of the Torah and Gospel and Quran is the same, when the Quran came it combined the superiority of all those holy book being the last of all revealation

@ Abuzola
I don't understand the original you are talking about. Do you mean that some people had fake while others had original? Or that the books became corrupt after the people mentioned above have passed on?

@ Abuzola
By the statement above you are saying that there was original as at the time of Christ. Now, were there not original at the time of allah’s prophet ?

@Dexmond: « #6 on: Today at 06:34:02 PM »

Under each verse, there are question for you to answer. You can read the quran online at quranexplorer.com
Suratu Maryam 19:12. God says, "`Oh Yahya! (John the Baptist) take hold of the Book with might': and We gave him wisdom as a youth."
Question: Will allah ask Yahya to take hold of a corrupt book?

In surah Ala, the last verse says ; suhufi Ibrahima was Musa. This means that the patches or pamphlet given to Musa contains the essence of Torah; Allah is One and there is no Lord God Creator but He. Worship and obey His commands, rules. This is before the book of Isa bin Mariam , many decades after. Read how Jesus said that the doctors of the Jewish Laws, The Saduccees and the Pharisees attitudes with the essence of the Torah, the full obedience of it or just the letters of the law.

Ali `Imran 3:48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel."
Question: Will God teach a corrupt Torah and gospel?

This is what Allah said about Isa bin Mariam. It simply means that what is pure of the "Torah" minus what the hands of the scribes have added, the impurity. Then revealing the Injil to him, in additional. The Injil must be pure at the time of revelation?

Al-Tahrim 66:12
And Mary the daughter of `Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into her (body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (Servants)."
Question: Will Mary testify of a corrupted revelations?

Testification did not say that it is the whole "Torah" but what was revealed to "Musa", the pure portion, without what the Scribes put in it; Mishnash, etc. I think that we need to read it as it stated, testify to the the truth of what came ofrom her Lord. Evidently, there was this Lord in existence, before her son.

Ali `Imran) 3:49-50. Jesus says, "I have come to you, attesting to (the truth of) what is between my hands of the Torah, and to make lawful to you a part of that which is forbidden to you."
Question: Will Jesus attest to a fake Book?

Isa bMariam (AS) saidwhat is the "truth" of what is between my hands of the Torah. This means any untruth that is called part of Torah, he was not affirming it.

Al-Saff 61:6
"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: `Oh Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God to you, confirming that which IS between my hands from the Torah, '"
Question: Was a fake book that Jesus confirmed?

If you do not accept Isa bin Mariam as a Prophet as statedin this very verse, you can see how you will not know that what Jsus was affirming is pure "Torah" not just Torah which has corruptions in it. Afterall, the essence of God's existence is His Lordship, and that all others are His creations. So what you have is a One Lord God Creator Who is Allah and the others are the creations. Do you believe in this?

Al-Ma'ida 5:49
"And in their footsteps (of Moses and the Jews) We sent Jesus the son of Mary, attesting to (the truth of) the Torah which was between his hands; and We gave him the Gospel - therein is guidance and light and attesting to (the truth of) the Torah which was between his hands: a guidance and an admonition to the righteous."
Question: Can there be guidance and light in a corrupted book?

For this answer, you must have what is pure in Torah be exactly whats pure in Injil. For example we have in Torah and injil a verse demostrating this: Hear, oh Israel; your Lord and my lord is One God. Thats your answer. But when God in Torah iwas One and then in injil after Jesus is now 3, know that there is discrepancy and it can't be 100% Pure.

Al-Ma'ida 5:113.
"Then will God say, `O Jesus son of Mary! Recount my favor to you and to your mother when I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit, so that you spoke to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel,
Question: Do you believe that God will teach Jesus a fake Book?

Between purity and the fakery mixtre, God evidently taught His Messenger only the Purity.

The bible says that the only way to heaven is repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ, otherwise you are on your way to hell!
God forbids! Acts of the apostle 12:4

The bible was not revealed by Allah. And definitely the acts of the Apostles and the Epistles and Revelations were not revealed by Allah.

If the bible is not God's word, how will you explain the numerous prophecies whereas in the quran you just find may be two guess works?

What prophecy did the bible says ? Produce them from the new testament without stealing from the jews old testament

dexmond:


If the bible is not God's word, how will you explain the numerous prophecies whereas in the quran you just find may be two guess works?

When you read bible to yourself, you dont need a degree to know its not God's word. The prophesies therein can be easily cleared out, it's like someone is narrating my great grandfather stories, it's more than third party information with a lot of mis-transformation. Yoruba says"Iroyin okere, bi o lekan adinku".  Now, can you please quote to reveal what you called a guess work from the Quran.

littleb:

When you read bible to yourself, you dont need a degree to know its not God's word. The prophesies therein can be easily cleared out, it's like someone is narrating my great grandfather stories, it's more than third party information with a lot of mis-transformation. Yoruba says"Iroyin okere, bi o lekan adinku".  Now, can you please quote to reveal what you called a guess work from the Quran.

1. Prophecies like?

2. Where are allah's prophecies and which of them came to pass?

Back to ur question: We are made to believe in the torah, psalm, gospels and all the books God revealed, whether the bible is corrupt or not we have our own Holy book, we believe in the first and genuine book revealed to the men of God and not the corrupt one, during jesus time theTorah was corrupted but He also believed in the genuine Torah and not the corrupt one Quran 3:50
jesus saying 'And i have come confirming that which was before me of the torah' , likewise the people of moses believing in the genuine psalm euen though the later was corrupt

is the old testament not part of the bible?

Abuzola:

Back to ur question: We are made to believe in the torah, psalm, gospels and all the books God revealed, whether the bible is corrupt or not we have our own Holy book, we believe in the first and genuine book revealed to the men of God and not the corrupt one, during jesus time theTorah was corrupted but He also believed in the genuine Torah and not the corrupt one Quran 3:50
jesus saying 'And i have come confirming  that which was before me of the torah' , likewise the people of moses believing in the genuine psalm euen though the later was corrupt

where are these books?

as far as my research about the quran is concernerd, i have not seen a passage of the quran that talks of textual corruption but rather people interpreting to suit their whims.

Really dexmond ? And what if i produce a verse what will happen ?


Firstly, i want you to understand that during muhammad's time the bible wasn't compiled into intact bible dismissing some verses, during the Prophet's time all the verses were available for assessment and thats why Allah said Quran 5:77 'Say (o muhammad) 'o people of the scripture (jews and christian) ! Exceed not the limits in your religion by believing in something other than the truth, and do not follow the vain desires of people who went astray before you and misled many, and strayed from the Right path'

can you see how Allah warned them, but yet they concealed the truth making you fall a victim of their deceit, the Roman catholics dismissed many verse of the bible during compilation long after the death of muhammad.

davidylan:

1. Prophecies like?

2. Where are allah's prophecies and which of them came to pass?

1. You can help yourself by quoting it from bible and I will proof it wasn't a direct revelation, rather a narration.

2. There are lot of prophecies in the Quran, much of it very relevant ot our existence. In the early days of Islam, the conquest of Makkah was a prophecy which has nothing to do with bible prophetic messages.

littleb:

1. You can help yourself by quoting it from bible and I will proof it wasn't a direct revelation, rather a narration.

i thought you knew them already? Share them with us pls

littleb:

2. There are lot of prophecies in the Quran, much of it very relevant ot our existence. In the early days of Islam, the conquest of Makkah was a prophecy which has nothing to do with bible prophetic messages.

i asked for at least 2 . . . where are they? and when did they come to pass?

Also Quran 110:2 how many people will embrace Islam

davidylan:

i thought you knew them already? Share them with us pls

i asked for at least 2 . . . where are they? and when did they come to pass?

The conquest of Makkah by muslims and it has been fulfilled over 1400 years ago
Roman destruction, already fullfilled
prophecy about abi-laab and his wife in makkah. Already fulfilled.

Now, tell me the prophecies from the bible, directly God words.

Not just the bible, let him use the new testament, the old testament is for the jews and thats why they even divide it into halve differentiating the two part

littleb:

The conquest of Makkah by muslims and it has been fulfilled over 1400 years ago
Roman destruction, already fullfilled
prophecy about abi-laab and his wife in makkah. Already fulfilled.

Now, tell me the prophecies from the bible, directly God words.

this is simply an avenue to dodge the issue. I need SPECIFICS on those prophecies like the verse so i can go confirm. then you give me the alleged fulfillment and WHY you assume the "prophecy" is related to it.

you're asking for biblical prophecies and you disgusting hypocrite ask specifically for "directly God's words" . . . why didnt YOU directly give me allah's words?

Anyone can dream those up.

dont keep us waiting . . . we want "directly allah's words" too.

@dexmond; « #11 on: Yesterday at 11:06:23 PM »

If the bible is not God's word, how will you explain the numerous prophecies whereas in the quran you just find may be two guess works?

Dxmond, God did not reveal the Bible. You know it and I know it. If you said God revealed the OT containg what were given to Musa and Daud (AS) and what was given to Isa bin Mariam (AS), you will not find any argument from me about these. Except I may point to the fact that some parts of these revealed books have been compromised. For example, you cant tell me that the acts, epistles and revelations parts of the New Testaments were revealed to Isa bin Mariam. Or will you argue so? That will be unacceptable because it is evident that Jesus was not on earth anymore when the "acts" began to take shape.

And its not my place guess or explan the many or numerous propesies in the Bible. You asked if the Whole of the Bible is God's words, without any human words, or utterances of angels without permission from God. That will be no, since we see the words of Paul, for examples in the epistles, saying clearly when it was his opinion and clearly was not even ancoring it on Jesus, whom he claimed was talking to him from heavens. Unfortunately, what he said that Jesus is now saying to him, is quite different fromwhat Jesus said and stood upon on eearth! This sudden change is unexplainable.

And as to the Quranic prophesies, I have given you 8 or more where you asked me to give you only 5. And I did not even add prophesy that no prophets shall come from any family except that of Ibrahim, after his prayer to Allah for it. David, search Surah Imran for this.

Surah Fath was for the opening of Makka. Surah Yunus was for the preservation of the body of Pharaoh. Surah Abi Lahab is almost at the end of the Quran is the one stating his uncle will not become muslim, and will die a disbeliever. Surah Rum is a bout the Christians Rome defeating the Persian Zoroast!

@olabowale.

The author of the quran tried to re-tell the bible and presented it as if it fell from the sky.

The sale of Joseph.

Qur'an. Surah 12:20 tells us:
They sold him [Joseph] for a miserable price, for a few dirhams counted out [darahima ma‘dudatin]; in such low estimation did they hold him!

There was nothing like dirhams during that time, what they had was gold, silver and some precious stones! If you want more I will show you.

@dexmond, you lack comprehension of phrase expression. Quran 12:20 'AND THEY SOLD HIM FOR A LOW PRICE, FOR A FEW DIRHAM, ANDTHEY WERE OF THOSE WHO REGARDED HIM INSIGNIFICANT'

thus, few dirham indicates a few amount, e.g 1720 Nigeria was using cowrie as money, and today i want to value the object bought, am not going to use cowrie i will use naira instead, therefore i will say she bought the object for a few naira instead of cowrie so that people will comprehend my message, not everybody knows that cowrie was one time a money, the same thing with the Dirham and silver coins of the era of joseph