OLAADEGBU:


If we are not saved by grace which is by faith alone, what else saves us?

Do you think it's an *either or* thing? Faith and works are not mutually exclusive.

Papist:


Do you think it's an *either or* thing? Faith and works are not mutually exclusive.

In other words, you are saying faith plus works saves us. What work can you or have you done to supplement the finished work of Christ on the Cross, the sacrament of Penance for instance?

OLAADEGBU:


If we are not saved by grace which is by faith alone, what else saves us?

where did he said we are nt save by grace in his post? Show us some 1 quoted a bible verse insted for you to read it very wel u ar here twisting his words. And who told u that to be save by grace is by having faith alone? We are save by grace alone nt even our faith or works could save us if nt 4 dat grace of christ cus our initial savaltion is only by God grace nt even because we had faith or good works...........yes we all know we are saved by christ grace alone bt the question is what is our necessary respons to dat grace
a) faith alone
b)works alone
c)faith and works of grace e.g baptism
d)faith and works of the law e.g circumzing

vest:


where did he said we are nt save by grace in his post? Show us some 1 quoted a bible verse insted for you to read it very wel u ar here twisting his words.

Maybe you can help me out here. Did he say that we are saved by grace alone?

OLAADEGBU:


Maybe you can help me out here. Did he say that we are saved by grace alone?

where did he said we are nt save by grace i ask first

vest:


where did he said we are nt save by grace in his post? Show us some 1 quoted a bible verse insted for you to read it very wel u ar here twisting his words. And who told u that to be save by grace is by having faith alone? We are save by grace alone nt even our faith or works could save us if nt 4 dat grace of christ cus our initial savaltion is only by God grace nt even because we had faith or good works...........yes we all know we are saved by christ grace alone bt the question is what is our necessary respons to dat grace
a) faith alone
b)works alone
c)faith and works of grace e.g baptism
d)faith and works of the law e.g circumzing

If you had started reading from the beginning of this thread you would not be asking the questions you are now asking.

An2elect2:

Exactly,but...

sad. The "another gospel which is no gospel at all" has taken over Christendom. This grace plus works/merit has never, and will never save any man. It is either we are saved by God's sovereign grace or we are not.

The false gospel of grace plus works only gives men a sense of control of their own salvation, and as a result, they believe they can lose the salvation or decide to walk out on God. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

The crux of almost all heresies is the denial or rejection of the truth that salvation was earned through the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus once and for all. For ever.

Believe that to be saved one must work, then you will believe you can throw away what you've worked for(salvation) and then other heresies upon heresies and then you must come to the conclusion that whether by word or by heart that Christ's death for "us" was not once and for all. And therefore, it is either he comes down to be sacrificed again and again like those bulls and calves of old or you meet God's perfect standards by yourself.

Mine! This is mind blowing. Who are you?

OLAADEGBU

Do you truly bekueve that salvation is by grace alone or you are simply testing the grounds to import your own version of self imposed works oriented salvation by grace.

The last I check the church you attend do not consider a woman saved except she is all tied up like a widow, without any kind of beauty arraignment.

Or the fact that all that must be saved must tithe their income.

Salvation, my friend, is by grace alone. God saves the sinner and keeps him safe till eternity; he cannot be lost. Any other kind of salvation that requires you do one thing to save yourself or keep safe is not grace. Its works.

The Christian duty is independent of his salvation. We are saved to work; we do not work to be saved.

OLAADEGBU:


Are we then saved by both?

by neither, we are saved by the merits of Christ passion and death applied to us as grace, a "working, salvific faith" is simply a necessary precondition.

Was Abraham saved?

I never said the old testament saints were not saved, heb 11 is full of men and women who pleased God and who through faith were reckon righteous, even at that the old testament was defective because it lack what the new has i.e GRACE.

Granted that it is by grace we are saved through faith but the proud who insists on adding his works to the finished work of Christ to be saved cannot receive the grace of God. The law is for the proud and grace for the humble. God resists the proud.

you haven't been reading your bible well.

There is something called the "law of Christ", and the grace we recieve enables us to live it.
Listen to paul.


To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those
outside the law ( I Cor. 9:21).

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death ( Romans 8:2).

You may not like it but the bible clearly shows that there is a new and higher principle of obedience in the new testament.

Gal 5:2 Now I Paul say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness (Gr. dikaiosune— justification). For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love.

Our works in themselves cannot justify us, but the grace that justifies is only for those whose faith is willing to work thru charity.

Are you saying that we have to obey His laws before we can receive His grace?

No!

We receive grace without work, the law isn't the begining of salvation.

We receive grace first before we can do work, but we receive grace IN ORDER to do good work, we are members (branches) of the vine empowered to produce fruits and he who does not produce will be cut out. A christian who doesn't work is a branch without fruit, it will be cut off.

That is how our work co-operate with faith. It ensures we remain in the vine.

Does your working in love precede your faith in Christ or is a condition for getting saved?

working in love doesn't precede faith, it is a part and parcel of salvific faith.
and yes! That faith works in love is a necessity for salvation, the branch without fruit must be cut down.

OLAADEGBU:

Maybe you can help me out here. Did he say that we are saved by grace alone?

did he in any place deny that we are saved by grace alone?
Or you are just looking for how to pick an arguement