Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,150,853 members, 7,810,283 topics. Date: Saturday, 27 April 2024 at 05:23 AM

Amen....to This. - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Amen....to This. (3318 Views)

RCCG 64th Annual Convention : Amen; Aug 1-7 / Can You Say "AMEN" To This Prayer? / Why Do Christians Pray Aggressively & Shout Louder Amen At The Mention Of Money? (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (Reply) (Go Down)

Amen....to This. by Nobody: 12:24am On May 20, 2015
The Lord announced his presence to Moses at Sinai. Moses who worshiped the universal Egyptian god Aten asked this new lord who he was - and the reply was " I am that I am", which in Hebrew became Yahweh (Jehovah). However, for an extremely long period the Israelites were not allowed to utter the name Jehovah, except for the High Priest who was allowed to whisper it in private once a year. The problem was that prayers were supposed to be said to this new Lord - but how would the people know their prayers were indeed to this new Lord if his name was not mentioned? More importantly, how would this new Lord know their prayers were destined for him if he was not addressed?

The Israelite exiles from Egypt knew that Jehovah was not the same as Aten and so they presumed their new Lord must be the equivalent of the great state god of Egypt - even if not one and the same. It was decided, therefore, to add the name of that State-god to all prayers thereafter.

If the story of this state God of Egypt, also referred to as “King of Gods”, whose attributes covered every imaginable feat, is largely shrouded in antiquity, it is not in its entirety. In our prayers today we still pay homage. To this day the name of the “King of Gods” is still recited at the end of prayers, even the well known Christian Lord’s Prayer was transposed from an Egyptian original which began with the intonation “‘Amen, Amen, who art in heaven.....

We consistently and continually offer as a salutation to Him for our salvation, for Him to be a mediator between our Gods and to Himself, by uttering his name after our prayers, in whatever language, it is an affirmation that the object of the speaker’s desire will manifest into reality to and through .....AMEN

1 Like 2 Shares

Re: Amen....to This. by McSterling(m): 7:52am On Jul 23, 2015
Interesting but no comments. Believers don't like stuff like this.
Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 9:00am On Jul 23, 2015
[b]OP you are correct about the word AMEN it was for the egyptian God Amen-Ra...

The similarities between Amen Amen Who art in heaven, and Our father who art in heaven" May be just coincindental i think. . .

The egyptian cult of Aten was the first monotheic religion recorded in history of egypt and it is true the jews might have borrowed this monotheistic concept in the formation of their own religion.

But i think the jewish deity developed more from Canaanite descent. . . Isreali is just another canaanite civilization like jebusite, hizitess, peruzites etc.

And the Canaanite pentheon worshipped El as the chief and most high God, his consort is asherah and father of 70 gods including Baal, saleem and in some texts Yakub. Melchizedeck was a priest of the most high God (El) by then the tetregramaton (Yhwh) have not developed yet.

In simitic tongue calling these two deities together (El and Asherah) gives you the word Elohim.

Ancient isreali society was very polytheic just as every other canaanite civilization. it gradually developed into a strict intolerant monotheic religion.

Even the israeli name speaks tons to this. . . the name isra-el has EL instead of Yahu, Samu-EL, El-ijah and many of others.

tho other names started bearing Yahu (yahweh) instead like Yahushua (Joshua and Jesus).

acheological findings have shown israeli worshipped Yahweh alongside other canaanite gods and they worshipped asherah as his consort.
Even in the bible the canaanite god Baal and asherah were mentioned many times as regard being worshipped by the people.

The Israeli religion just like others before it where it borrowed some styles and concepts evolved from a loose polytheism to a strict and intolerant ever modifying monotheism. . .
[/b]

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 2:02pm On Jul 23, 2015
@Johnnydon22

I stand to be corrected, my reference is to the Egyptian universal, omnipotent God referred to as "King of Gods", Amen Ra. In its short form Amen being the substantive and "Ra" being the appellative.

I do agree with you that there is considerable early canaanite influence on the Hebrews, we see that "Yahweh" was a lesser god of the canaanite pantheon of whose supreme being was "EL". The divine council in its original form in Deuteronomy clarifies this.

Likewise, there is considerable Egyptian influence on early Hebrew literature, the Book of Psalms, Proverbs and Deuteronomy attest to this, you will find passages word for word taken from the Instructions of Amenemope (an Eggyptian codex) in these books, indeed the book of Amenemope has been used to clarify verses in the book of proverbs.

The term Amen is Egyptian in origin, its present day usage may connote something else indeed it first appears in Hebrew writings in the book of Numbers when a woman is accused of adultery and is asked to utter the words to exonerate herself. However, in its original form it was used as homage to the Egyptian king of Gods.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 2:16pm On Jul 23, 2015
Sarassin:
@Johnnydon22

I stand to be corrected, my reference is to the Egyptian universal, omnipotent God referred to as "King of Gods", Amen Ra. In its short form Amen being the substantive and "Ra" being the appellative.

I do agree with you that there is considerable early canaanite influence on the Hebrews, we see that "Yahweh" was a lesser god of the canaanite pantheon of whose supreme being was "EL". The divine council in its original form in Deuteronomy clarifies this.

Likewise, there is considerable Egyptian influence on early Hebrew literature, the Book of Psalms, Proverbs and Deuteronomy attest to this, you will find passages word for word taken from the Instructions of Amenemope (an Eggyptian codex) in these books, indeed the book of Amenemope has been used to clarify verses in the book of proverbs.

The term Amen is Egyptian in origin, its present day usage may connote something else indeed it first appears in Hebrew writings in the book of Numbers when a woman is accused of adultery and is asked to utter the words to exonerate herself. However, in its original form it was used as homage to the Egyptian king of Gods.


Yeap i agree that the egyptian text Amenemope influenced some passages in the book of proverbs as well psalms. . . its very obvious and too clear to deny. . . Historical scholars hold this to be a historical fact !!!
Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 5:53pm On Jul 25, 2015
I think discussing older antiquities should be interesting
Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 8:00pm On Jul 25, 2015
johnydon22:
I think discussing older antiquities should be interesting

Indeed, a comparative study of some of ancient texts puts many religions into perspective, for instance the Hammurabi Code which went on to form the basis of Hebrew Deuteronomic Law as well as Islamic Law, as we have seen there is the influence of Egyptian writings on Hebraic Law and religion and perhaps one of my favorites, the Ugaritic writings detailing the Sumerian pantheon and the standings of the Canaanite Gods.

I have also just finished a comparative study of the influence of the Greek cult of Orpheus on early Christianity which bafflingly, is something that the early Christian Church has made no attempt to explain.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 8:10pm On Jul 25, 2015
Sarassin:


Indeed, a comparative study of some of ancient texts puts many religions into perspective, for instance the Hammurabi Code which went on to form the basis of Hebrew Deuteronomic Law as well as Islamic Law, as we have seen there is the influence of Egyptian writings on Hebraic Law and religion and perhaps one of my favorites, the Ugaritic writings detailing the Sumerian pantheon and the standings of the Canaanite Gods.

I have also just finished a comparative study of the influence of the Greek cult of Orpheus on early Christianity which bafflingly, is something that the early Christian Church has made no attempt to explain.
[b]It is indeed curious how older myths are always reworked and represented in another culture painted with their cultural decorum.

The tower of babel an example, Just a temple at the center of Babylonia built for the worship of the Sun god Marduk, we all know how it was mutilated in the much earlier jewish text representing it with a flimsy tower attempted to be built.

Compare the Sumerian Gilgamesh text and the Noah fable.… The influence of older Myths from older cultures in the bible is undeniable and very clear. . . The 1st creation poem gives a testimony of being a product of the Babylonian Enuma elish creation myth.

The influence of Gnostic gospels on the Quran is very clear and heavily represented in many of its texts.

It's no doubt Greek culture influenced greatly the Newly emerged Christianity in those ages it is shown clearly in the adoption of the greek Tartarus concept this time misrepresented into a mythical hell.

I find it fascinating how much a little ancient antiquity can reveal when so much work have been put in place to tilt your interest away from them
[/b]

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 8:24pm On Jul 25, 2015
johnydon22:
[b]It is indeed curious how older myths are always reworked and represented in another culture painted with their cultural decorum.

The tower of babel an example, Just a temple at the center of Babylonia built for the worship of the Sun god Marduk, we all know how it was mutilated in the much earlier jewish text representing it with a flimsy tower attempted to be built.

Compare the Sumerian Gilgamesh text and the Noah fable.… The influence of older Myths from older cultures in the bible is undeniable and very clear. . . The 1st creation poem gives a testimony of being a product of the Babylonian Enuma elish creation myth.

The influence of Gnostic gospels on the Quran is very clear and heavily represented in many of its texts.

It's no doubt Greek culture influenced greatly the Newly emerged Christianity in those ages it is shown clearly in the adoption of the greek Tartarus concept this time misrepresented into a mythical hell.

I find it fascinating how much a little ancient antiquity can reveal when so much work have been put in place to tilt your interest away from them
[/b]

I completely agree with you. It simply goes to show that great religions such as Islam and Christianity did not occur in a vacuum and were the products of competing values and interests. Even though Christians and Muslims will have us believe their religions emanated from the Laps of God, ancient history tells us otherwise.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 10:09am On Jul 27, 2015
Sarassin:


I completely agree with you. It simply goes to show that great religions such as Islam and Christianity did not occur in a vacuum and were the products of competing values and interests. Even though Christians and Muslims will have us believe their religions emanated from the Laps of God, ancient history tells us otherwise.
Most Christian fables, gospels myths, traditions and even practises all originated from an older myth, but the naive ones who wouldn't bother going down history lane by studying these antiquities would naively swear their butts that those are original christian concepts, i find such naivete cute though not a good trait for 21st century beings

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 3:56pm On Sep 15, 2015
Where is sarassin?
Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 8:04pm On Sep 16, 2015
Sarassin:
The Lord announced his presence to Moses at Sinai. Moses who worshiped the universal Egyptian god Aten asked this new lord who he was - and the reply was " I am that I am", which in Hebrew became Yahweh (Jehovah). However, for an extremely long period the Israelites were not allowed to utter the name Jehovah, except for the High Priest who was allowed to whisper it in private once a year. The problem was that prayers were supposed to be said to this new Lord - but how would the people know their prayers were indeed to this new Lord if his name was not mentioned? More importantly, how would this new Lord know their prayers were destined for him if he was not addressed?

Where did u get the lie that Moses worshiped a god that came to prominence after they had left Egypt?

Aten was never a universal god of the egyptians when Jews were in Egypt.

Again, who told you that Yahweh pronunciation was prohibited then?

Where did you derive this new lord concept?

The Israelite exiles from Egypt knew that Jehovah was not the same as Aten and so they presumed their new Lord must be the equivalent of the great state god of Egypt - even if not one and the same. It was decided, therefore, to add the name of that State-god to all prayers thereafter.

Oga the Jew never knew Aten as a state god.

If the story of this state God of Egypt, also referred to as “King of Gods”, whose attributes covered every imaginable feat, is largely shrouded in antiquity, it is not in its entirety. In our prayers today we still pay homage. To this day the name of the “King of Gods” is still recited at the end of prayers, even the well known Christian Lord’s Prayer was transposed from an Egyptian original which began with the intonation “‘Amen, Amen, who art in heaven.....

We consistently and continually offer as a salutation to Him for our salvation, for Him to be a mediator between our Gods and to Himself, by uttering his name after our prayers, in whatever language, it is an affirmation that the object of the speaker’s desire will manifest into reality to and through .....AMEN

You are confused, sorry if that was blunt. You are now talking about Amon-ra.

I wonder how the jews would worship a god who should protect the egyptian firstborn, but who was there and Jehovah slaughtered the egyptian firstborn.

I wonder where u saw "amen amen" in xtian lords prayer. We know what thebans mean by "art in heaven". Not what xtians mean.

However, The Hebrew word for " amen" starts with aleph, while the Egyptian name begins with a yodh.
Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 10:22pm On Sep 16, 2015
johnydon22:
[b]OP you are correct about the word AMEN it was for the egyptian God Amen-Ra...

The similarities between Amen Amen Who art in heaven, and Our father who art in heaven" May be just coincindental i think. . .

The egyptian cult of Aten was the first monotheic religion recorded in history and it is true the jews might have borrowed this monotheistic concept in the formation of their own religion.

I disagree with that. The emperor himself was also viewed as a god. as such, thats not monotheism.

But i think the jewish deity developed more from Canaanite descent. . . Isreali is just another canaanite civilization like jebusite, hizitess, peruzites etc.

And the Canaanite pentheon worshipped El as the chief and most high God, his consort is asherah and father of 70 gods including Baal, saleem and in some texts Yakub. Melchizedeck was a priest of the most high God (El) by then the tetregramaton (Yhwh) have not developed yet.

In simitic tongue calling these two deities together (El and Asherah) gives you the word Elohim.

Ancient isreali society was very polytheic just as every other canaanite civilization. it gradually developed into a strict intolerant monotheic religion.

So funny how people like you just want to false the things to support your position. El is a title that can refer to both Jehovah and any other god. That is how it is used in the scriptures. Now is that how Canaanites view El?

secondly, how can Moses possibly copy Canaanites when he hasnt gotten there before penning the Torah?

The Tetegrammaton has not developed when? Tell me more.

Israel was never polytheic oga.

Even the israeli name speaks tons to this. . . the name isra-el has EL instead of Yahu, Samu-EL, El-ijah and many of others.

tho other names started bearing Yahu (yahweh) instead like Yahushua (Joshua and Jesus).

acheological findings have shown israeli worshipped Yahweh alongside other canaanite gods and they worshipped asherah as his consort.
Even in the bible the canaanite god Baal and asherah were mentioned many times as regard being worshipped by the people.

The Israeli religion just like others before it where it borrowed some styles and concepts evolved from a loose polytheism to a strict and intolerant ever modifying monotheism. . .
[/b]

Bible scholar, how do Jews view El, as a proper name or a title? Do Canaanotes view El as something to be translated as "God" or they view it as a proper name?

And Jehovah had to drive them out cos of false worship, and punished the Jews for often doing the same. How then can such be if the worshiped Canaanite gods were proper?

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by Angelou(m): 12:07am On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:


Where did u get the lie that Moses worshiped a god that came to prominence after they had left Egypt?

Aten was never a universal god of the egyptians when Jews were in Egypt.

Again, who told you that Yahweh pronunciation was prohibited then?

Where did you derive this new lord concept?



Oga the Jew never knew Aten as a state god.



You are confused, sorry if that was blunt. You are now talking about Amon-ra.

I wonder how the jews would worship a god who should protect the egyptian firstborn, but who was there and Jehovah slaughtered the egyptian firstborn.

I wonder where u saw "amen amen" in xtian lords prayer. We know what thebans mean by "art in heaven". Not what xtians mean.

However, The Hebrew word for " amen" starts with aleph, while the Egyptian name begins with a yodh.
i thought this God in question is called Amon-Ra... Where did you guys get the Amen From? Or did the hieroglyph translate directly to Amen?
Mr Sarassin I'd like to know if you are an atheist, agnostic, or member of an old confraternity dating back to pre-judaism Era?
Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:00am On Sep 17, 2015
Sarassin:
@Johnnydon22

I stand to be corrected, my reference is to the Egyptian universal, omnipotent God referred to as "King of Gods", Amen Ra. In its short form Amen being the substantive and "Ra" being the appellative.

I do agree with you that there is considerable early canaanite influence on the Hebrews, we see that "Yahweh" was a lesser god of the canaanite pantheon of whose supreme being was "EL". The divine council in its original form in Deuteronomy clarifies this

Please show me the clarification in Deutronomy.

The Yahweh you used as a lesser god is absurd especially when Yahweh has been in use before the Journey to Canaan.

Likewise, there is considerable Egyptian influence on early Hebrew literature, the Book of Psalms, Proverbs and Deuteronomy attest to this, you will find passages word for word taken from the Instructions of Amenemope (an Eggyptian codex) in these books, indeed the book of Amenemope has been used to clarify verses in the book of proverbs.

That there such similarities (exclude Deuteronomy) is not proof that there were copied from there. at least they did not match word for word in all. one will ask how the other parts were written, and were there also differences. Why is it possible to see similarity?

The Encyclopedia of Religion notes: “The reason for this similarity of form and content is cultural: notwithstanding the significant geographical and temporal differences between Ugarit and Israel, they were part of a larger cultural entity that shared a common poetic and religious vocabulary.” Garry Brantley therefore concludes: “It is improper exegesis to force pagan beliefs into the biblical text simply because of linguistic similarities.”

Finally, it should be noted that if any parallels do exist between the Ras Shamra texts and the Bible, they are purely literary, not spiritual. “The ethical and moral heights reached in the Bible are [not] to be found in Ugarit,” remarks archaeologist Cyrus Gordon. Indeed, the differences far outweigh any similarities.

The term Amen is Egyptian in origin, its present day usage may connote something else indeed it first appears in Hebrew writings in the book of Numbers when a woman is accused of adultery and is asked to utter the words to exonerate herself. However, in its original form it was used as homage to the Egyptian king of Gods.

What you see in the Hebrew Scriptures is not the same as the Egyptian Amun, pronounced as "amana". We do not pronounce such when we say Amen.

Secondly, the word amen is drawn from the root aman, which is hebrew, not egyptian tongue.

Thirdly, the word amen, means "so be it". Now what does Amun mean? also is it used in the same way "Amen" is used in the scriptures?

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:07am On Sep 17, 2015
Angelou:
i thought this God in question is called Amon-Ra... Where did you guys get the Amen From? Or did the hieroglyph translate directly to Amen?
Mr Sarassin I'd like to know if you are an atheist, agnostic, or member of an old confraternity dating back to pre-judaism Era?

It can be called Amon-ra or Amen-ra.
Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:20am On Sep 17, 2015
Sarassin:


Indeed, a comparative study of some of ancient texts puts many religions into perspective, for instance the Hammurabi Code which went on to form the basis of Hebrew Deuteronomic Law as well as Islamic Law, as we have seen there is the influence of Egyptian writings on Hebraic Law and religion and perhaps one of my favorites, the Ugaritic writings detailing the Sumerian pantheon and the standings of the Canaanite Gods.

I have also just finished a comparative study of the influence of the Greek cult of Orpheus on early Christianity which bafflingly, is something that the early Christian Church has made no attempt to explain.

If you accuse Deuteronomy of being copied from amenemope, you still accuse it of being copied from Hammurabi code. This shows that you just want to discredit the bible by all means.

You are wrong, Sir Charles Marston, on page 51 of his book The Bible Comes Alive, says: “It seems certain that Hammurabi’s laws were a codification of the older and existing laws and customs of the Semitic Race—the race that sprung from Noah’s son Shem, the race to which the Hebrews belonged.” The evidence is, therefore, that heathen nations carried over many ancient laws and customs from the Noachian system of law and order, which pattern the faithful Hebrew patriarchs followed.

Moreover, examining the two systems of law, that of Hammurabi and that given through Moses, the latter is seen to be the more just and equitable of the two and hence the more faithful to the original legal system that came into being among God’s faithful people. For instance, if an Israelite slaveholder became brutal and struck a male or female slave so that an eye was lost he was forced to let the slave go free, while under Hammurabi’s code he was let off with merely paying half the slave’s value. (Ex. 21:26; Ham. No. 199) Hammurabi’s code said: “If it [a poorly constructed house] cause the death of a son of the owner of the house, they shall put to death a son of that builder.” (Ham. No. 230) But the Mosaic law code specifically forbade putting to death a son for his father’s sin: “Fathers should not be put to death on account of children and children should not be put to death on account of fathers. Each one should be put to death for his own sin.”—Deut. 24:16, NW.

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:34am On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:
[b]It is indeed curious how older myths are always reworked and represented in another culture painted with their cultural decorum.

The tower of babel an example, Just a temple at the center of Babylonia built for the worship of the Sun god Marduk, we all know how it was mutilated in the much earlier jewish text representing it with a flimsy tower attempted to be built.

Compare the Sumerian Gilgamesh text and the Noah fable.… The influence of older Myths from older cultures in the bible is undeniable and very clear. . . The 1st creation poem gives a testimony of being a product of the Babylonian Enuma elish creation myth.

The influence of Gnostic gospels on the Quran is very clear and heavily represented in many of its texts.

It's no doubt Greek culture influenced greatly the Newly emerged Christianity in those ages it is shown clearly in the adoption of the greek Tartarus concept this time misrepresented into a mythical hell.

I find it fascinating how much a little ancient antiquity can reveal when so much work have been put in place to tilt your interest away from them
[/b]

You are too naive to bring this point I must say. Did you read this myths (note what they are myths) with open mind cos the above is quite otiose.

Enuma elish, or Sumerian-Babylonian “Epic of Creation.” According to this ancient record, Marduk, city-god of Babylon, vanquished the primeval sea goddess Tiamat and cut her in two. “From one half he fashioned the vault of the heavens, from the other the solid earth. That done, he organized the world. . . . Then ‘in order that the gods should live in a world to rejoice their hearts’ Marduk created humanity.”—Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology.

Do you believe man came from Ra’s tears? Many highly civilized and educated Egyptians did. Or can you accept the assertion that the cloven body of a goddess gave rise to the heavens and the earth?

Where did the bible make such a claim?

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:43am On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:
Most Christian fables, gospels myths, traditions and even practises all originated from an older myth, but the naive ones who wouldn't bother going down history lane by studying these antiquities would naively swear their butts that those are original christian concepts, i find such naivete cute though not a good trait for 21st century beings

Where are those myths now? why has religion of Jews survived till date?

Can any character in mythological stories be proven archaeologically? can there historicity ever be proven?

You are the one being naive. continue lying to yourself till that day.

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 6:45am On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:


Where are those myths now?
Oh yeah we all know the myths inside the fable. A human woman and a God gave birth to a demiGod, Perseus was sired by the God zeus and a human woman, Heracles was sired by the God zeus and a human woman. We have hundreds of cases of Gods having children by human women, i really do not need start counting them out for you.

why has religion of Jews survived till date?
Lmao, the jewish religion is a very young religion in history, Hinduism is the very first organized religion known to man. You should be asking me How Hinduism survived till today


Can any character in mythological stories be proven archaeologically? can there historicity ever be proven?
You cannot even different what a myth is in a story...


You are the one being naive. continue lying to yourself till that day.
This is as a result of indoctrinating children with idiotic superstition. . . here is the result.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 6:59am On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:


You are too naive to bring this point I must say. Did you read this myths (note what they are myths) with open mind cos the above is quite otiose.
I have read both the Enuma Elish and the genesis account and both of them plainly are myths. . . You think the other real and the other myth betraying the abject bigotry induced by belief in one myth over another.

Enuma elish, or Sumerian-Babylonian “Epic of Creation.” According to this ancient record, Marduk, city-god of Babylon, vanquished the primeval sea goddess Tiamat and cut her in two. “From one half he fashioned the vault of the heavens, from the other the solid earth. That done, he organized the world. . . . Then ‘in order that the gods should live in a world to rejoice their hearts’ Marduk created humanity.”—Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology.
[b][i]
1rst generation of gods and 1rst day of Genesis creation:
(From start of Enuma Elish)
When on high the heaven had not been named, Firm ground below had not
been called by name, Naught but primordial Apsu, their begetter, And
Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all, Their waters commingling as a
single body;
Apsu is the god of water.
Tiamat is the god of primeval chaos and bearer of the sky and the earth.
(Gen 1:1-2 NRSV) In the beginning when God created the heavens and the
earth, the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the
deep (or watery chaos), (Tehowm) while a wind from God swept over the
face of the waters. ...
(Gen 1:5 NRSV) ...And there was evening and there was morning, the first
day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
2nd and 3rd generation of gods and 2nd and 3rd day of Genesis creation:
... Lahmu and Lahamu were brought forth, by name they were called. ...
Anshar and Kishar were formed, surpassing the others. ...
(Lahamu was the god of muddy silt and Kishar was the god of the Earth)
(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the
waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
(Here God (Elohim) slices the waters into two with a sky dome to make the
sky and the oceans, in Enuma Elish this also parallels Marduk slicing Tiamat
(Tehowm in the bible) into two to make the land and sky.)
(Gen 1:8 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the second day.
(Gen 1:9-10 NRSV) And God said, "Let the waters under the sky be gathered
together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. God
called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he
called Seas. ...
(Gen 1:13 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the third day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
4rth generation of gods and 4rth day of Genesis creation:
Anu was their heir... (Anu was the god of the sky) ...
(Gen 1:16 NRSV) God made the two great lights--the greater light to rule the
day and the lesser light to rule the night-- and the stars. ... (and set them in
the sky dome)
(Gen 1:19 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
5th generation of gods and 5th day of Genesis creation:
He who begot him (Marduk) was Ea, (Ea was the god of all things of the
Earth and also of cantations, when he speaks things are made (God (Elohim)
makes things by speaking))
(Gen 1:21 NRSV) So God created the great sea monsters and every living
creature that moves, of every kind, with which the waters swarm, and every
winged bird of every kind. And God saw that it was good. ...
(Gen 1:23 NRSV) evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
6th generation of gods and 6th day of Genesis creation:
In the heart of holy Apsu was Marduk created. He who begot him was Ea,
his father;
(Marduk became king of the Gods and creator of man) "Blood I will mass
and cause bones to be.
I will establish a savage, `man' shall be his name. truly, savage-man I will
create. He shall be charged with the service of the gods That they might be
at ease! (Parallel this with God (Elohim) resting after creating man)
(Gen 1:26 NRSV) Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image,
(Gen 1:31 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
(Gen 2:2 NRSV) And on the seventh day God finished the work that he had
done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work that he had done.
So Marduk made man a slave so the gods could rest. After God (Elohim)
makes man he rests on the seventh day:





Wikipedia encyclopedia
The Enûma Eliš was recognized as being related to the Jewish Genesis
creation account from its first publication (Smith 1876), and it was an
important step in the recognition of the roots of the account found in the Bible
and in other Ancient Near Eastern ( Canaanite and Mesopotamian ) myths .
In one interpretation, Genesis 1:1-3 can be taken as describing the state of
chaos immediately before God's act of creation:
You can go ahead and read more about Enuma elish here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enûma_Eliš
[/b]


Do you believe man came from Ra’s tears? Many highly civilized and educated Egyptians did.
Neither do i believe man came from yahweh moulding some dirt, many civilized and educated 21st century beings think so like you


Or can you accept the assertion that the cloven body of a goddess gave rise to the heavens and the earth?
Where did the bible make such a claim?

Neither do i accept the assertion that earth was created first with day and night before it's parent star and the cause of day and night the sun.
But yet 21st century man like you still sheepishly believe it and at the same time somehow is under the stuporous impression that you are better than the Egyptians who believe their own myth..

Your naivete is evidently clear.

2 Likes 4 Shares

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 7:29am On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:


I disagree with that. The emperor himself was also viewed as a god. as such, thats not monotheism.
The Pharaoh was known as Son of Aten which influenced the change of his name from Amehotep to Akhenaton.

The ancient religion of Aten as introduced by Akhenaton is a monotheistic religion, stop bringing up unfounded assertions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten



So funny how people like you just want to false the things to support your position. El is a title that can refer to both Jehovah and any other god. That is how it is used in the scriptures. Now is that how Canaanites view El?

El to the canaanite is used to connote the canaanite head of pantheon, the canaaite chief God and the father of other canaanite Gods. in Semitic tongue can be used to refer to any other deity.

Here is where you can find the canaanite usage of El read it up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religion



secondly, how can Moses possibly copy Canaanites when he hasnt gotten there before penning the Torah?
The Tetegrammaton has not developed when? Tell me more.
Lmao and the boy still holds the jewish theological tradition that moses wrote the torah... The tetragrammaton derived from the word "I am what i am"

Israel was never polytheic oga.
Pheeeew i really am in no mood for any childish higi haga https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh



Bible scholar, how do Jews view El, as a proper name or a title? Do Canaanotes view El as something to be translated as "God" or they view it as a proper name?
Refer to above.

And Jehovah had to drive them out cos of false worship, and punished the Jews for often doing the same. How then can such be if the worshiped Canaanite gods were proper?
So wrote the jews and i am supposed to start weighing jewish mythology with you now?

Lmao..

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:11pm On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:
The Pharaoh was known as Son of Aten which influenced the change of his name from Amehotep to Akhenaton.

The ancient religion of Aten as introduced by Akhenaton is a monotheistic religion, stop bringing up unfounded assertions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten



El to the canaanite is used to connote the canaanite head of pantheon, the canaaite chief God and the father of other canaanite Gods. in Semitic tongue can be used to refer to any other deity.

Here is where you can find the canaanite usage of El read it up https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religion


Lmao and the boy still holds the jewish theological tradition that moses wrote the torah... The tetragrammaton derived from the word "I am what i am"
Pheeeew i really am in no mood for any childish higi haga https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh


Refer to above.
So wrote the jews and i am supposed to start weighing jewish mythology with you now?

Lmao..

No wonder you are still in the dark. You cast ur hope on wikipedia. Thats childish oga. I thought u view urself as mature? So wiki is ur source?

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:20pm On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:
I have read both the Enuma Elish and the genesis account and both of them plainly are myths. . . You think the other real and the other myth betraying the abject bigotry induced by belief in one myth over another.
[b]
1rst generation of gods and 1rst day of Genesis creation:
(From start of Enuma Elish)
When on high the heaven had not been named, Firm ground below had not
been called by name, Naught but primordial Apsu, their begetter, And
Mummu-Tiamat, she who bore them all, Their waters commingling as a
single body;
Apsu is the god of water.
Tiamat is the god of primeval chaos and bearer of the sky and the earth.
(Gen 1:1-2 NRSV) In the beginning when God created the heavens and the
earth, the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the
deep (or watery chaos), (Tehowm) while a wind from God swept over the
face of the waters. ...
(Gen 1:5 NRSV) ...And there was evening and there was morning, the first
day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
2nd and 3rd generation of gods and 2nd and 3rd day of Genesis creation:
... Lahmu and Lahamu were brought forth, by name they were called. ...
Anshar and Kishar were formed, surpassing the others. ...
(Lahamu was the god of muddy silt and Kishar was the god of the Earth)
(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the
waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
(Here God (Elohim) slices the waters into two with a sky dome to make the
sky and the oceans, in Enuma Elish this also parallels Marduk slicing Tiamat
(Tehowm in the bible) into two to make the land and sky.)
(Gen 1:8 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the second day.
(Gen 1:9-10 NRSV) And God said, "Let the waters under the sky be gathered
together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. God
called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he
called Seas. ...
(Gen 1:13 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the third day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
4rth generation of gods and 4rth day of Genesis creation:
Anu was their heir... (Anu was the god of the sky) ...
(Gen 1:16 NRSV) God made the two great lights--the greater light to rule the
day and the lesser light to rule the night-- and the stars. ... (and set them in
the sky dome)
(Gen 1:19 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
5th generation of gods and 5th day of Genesis creation:
He who begot him (Marduk) was Ea, (Ea was the god of all things of the
Earth and also of cantations, when he speaks things are made (God (Elohim)
makes things by speaking))
(Gen 1:21 NRSV) So God created the great sea monsters and every living
creature that moves, of every kind, with which the waters swarm, and every
winged bird of every kind. And God saw that it was good. ...
(Gen 1:23 NRSV) evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
6th generation of gods and 6th day of Genesis creation:
In the heart of holy Apsu was Marduk created. He who begot him was Ea,
his father;
(Marduk became king of the Gods and creator of man) "Blood I will mass
and cause bones to be.
I will establish a savage, `man' shall be his name. truly, savage-man I will
create. He shall be charged with the service of the gods That they might be
at ease! (Parallel this with God (Elohim) resting after creating man)
(Gen 1:26 NRSV) Then God said, "Let us make humankind in our image,
(Gen 1:31 NRSV) ...evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
(Gen 2:2 NRSV) And on the seventh day God finished the work that he had
done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work that he had done.
So Marduk made man a slave so the gods could rest. After God (Elohim)
makes man he rests on the seventh day:





Wikipedia encyclopedia
The Enûma Eliš was recognized as being related to the Jewish Genesis
creation account from its first publication (Smith 1876), and it was an
important step in the recognition of the roots of the account found in the Bible
and in other Ancient Near Eastern ( Canaanite and Mesopotamian ) myths .
In one interpretation, Genesis 1:1-3 can be taken as describing the state of
chaos immediately before God's act of creation:
You can go ahead and read more about Enuma elish here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enûma_Eliš
[/b]

Neither do i believe man came from yahweh moulding some dirt, many civilized and educated 21st century beings think so like you


Neither do i accept the assertion that earth was created first with day and night before it's parent star and the cause of day and night the sun.
But yet 21st century man like you still sheepishly believe it and at the same time somehow is under the stuporous impression that you are better than the Egyptians who believe their own myth..

Your naivete is evidently clear.

Oga did genesis account make the claim I stated above since it was copied from Enuma Elish?

Well I don't blame you, Christendom has filled ur head with the thought that day and night came before the sun.
Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 1:54pm On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:

No wonder you are still in the dark. You cast ur hope on wikipedia. Thats childish oga. I thought u view urself as mature? So wiki is ur source?

No maybe my source should be www.jwfacts.com. I can as well feed you with numerous pdf e-books on ancient history and archeological findings because you obviously need it.

You know you were quite as cliche as i thought, now you resort to blaming Wikipedia?

Lmao.. Thats so so not cool and quite sad.

It is very obvious who the kid is here, you better go back to reading Watchtower magazines

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 1:54pm On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:


Oga did genesis account make the claim I stated above since it was copied from Enuma Elish?
Lmao. . . You just have no idea what comparative mythology is. Nobody copies myths word for word rather it is reworked in the cultural decorum of the newer civilization.

We all see it evidently in both enuma elish and Epic of gilgamesh. . .The older myth Gilgamesh attributed it to the God ea and the newer version attributed it to the God yahweh and a man named Noah....

This is the same way Genesis myth copied both style, motif and theme from the enuma elish...

It's so sad the young man doesn't know how to identify comparative mythologies.


Well I don't blame you, Christendom has filled ur head with the thought that day and night came before the sun.
Oh sweetheart you now want to blame CHRISTIANITY? seriously? undecided

Actually Christianity has nothing to do with it rather the same Genesis, a mythological antiquity that you are here selling made that assertion where "Day and night got created in the first day and the sun on the fourth day"

This is what we get when 21st century beings base their thinking based on myths as stipulated by idiotic beliefs.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 1:56pm On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:
Oh yeah we all know the myths inside the fable. A human woman and a God gave birth to a demiGod, Perseus was sired by the God zeus and a human woman, Heracles was sired by the God zeus and a human woman. We have hundreds of cases of Gods having children by human women, i really do not need start counting them out for you.

Since you don't love the truth, God let operation of error to inhabit you. You can't see that your myth above does not relate to the bible. You love lie, so you have myths.

Lmao, the jewish religion is a very young religion in history, Hinduism is the very first organized religion known to man. You should be asking me How Hinduism survived till today

Wonderful. Care to tell? Looking for another wiki.

You cannot even different what a myth is in a story...

And u are here saying the bible is.

You ve not answered the question tho:

Can any character in mythological stories be proven archaeologically? can there historicity ever be proven?

This is as a result of indoctrinating children with idiotic superstition. . . here is the result.

It is important to tell yourself the truth man cos your being blind to it does not change it. Its ur life tho.
Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 2:04pm On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:

No maybe my source should be www.jwfacts.com. I can as well feed you with numerous pdf e-books on ancient history and archeological findings because you obviously need it.

You know you were quite as cliche as i thought, now you resort to blaming Wikipedia?

Lmao.. Thats so so not cool and quite sad.

It is very obvious who the kid is here, you better go back to reading Watchtower magazines

My goodness! Like seriously, you believe wiki to be a good reference?

Smh, I really would have a hard time with dis guy.

Now, if can go to the book "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Revised Edition, check under Religion of Egypt, you ll see why such claimed monotheism is doubtful. If you ve read well, you will understand that emperors were worshiped as gods.

Don't limit yourself to wiki.

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 2:10pm On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:


Since you don't love the truth, God let operation of error to inhabit you. You can't see that your myth above does not relate to the bible. You love lie, so you have myths.
Lmao bursted are we? grin

God Zeus impregnated a human woman Danaë and had a son Perseus (Johnydon: this is a myth... JMAN5: yes it is a myth.)

The God Zeus impregnated a human woman Alcmene and had a son Hercules (Johnydon: That is a clear myth. . . JMAN5: Of course it is myth)

The God yahweh impregnated a human woman Mary and had a son Jesus (Johnydon: That obviously like others is a myth.
JMAN5: you don't love the truth, this one is the truth of God angry)

Can bigotry get any lower? grin

The difference between us is that you disbelieve other myths and believe only the one found in your religion while i myself disbelieve both other myths and yours too






Wonderful. Care to tell? Looking for another wiki.
Hinduism remains one of the top three major religions in the world even though it is the oldest religion known to man.

I do refer you to a Hindu and ask them how their old religion survived till now smiley




And u are here saying the bible is.

You ve not answered the question tho:
It is important to tell yourself the truth man cos your being blind to it does not change it. Its ur life tho.
I think you need to check the meaning of Myth and then relate it the stories.

The story of Achilles has tons of archeological findings suggesting Achilles is a historical figure but amidst this, Achilles mother being a Nymph is a pure myth.

You see, you don't even know what premise you were arguing over... Pretty lame

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by johnydon22(m): 2:15pm On Sep 17, 2015
JMAN05:


My goodness! Like seriously, you believe wiki to be a good reference?
Smh, I really would have a hard time with dis guy.
Lmao. . Now looking for a rope to hang on?

It is now wikipedia is the subject of argument Uuuuuuuhm. . Thats so poor lady, just too poor..

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 2:24pm On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:
Lmao. . . You just have no idea what comparative mythology is. Nobody copies myths word for word rather it is reworked in the cultural decorum of the newer civilization.

We all see it evidently in both enuma elish and Epic of gilgamesh. . .The older myth Gilgamesh attributed it to the God ea and the newer version attributed it to the God yahweh and a man named Noah....

This is the same way Genesis myth copied both style, motif and theme from the enuma elish...

And history confirms and finds materials that supports the historicity of a myth? Where did u keep ur head?

It's so sad the young man doesn't know how to identify comparative mythologies.
Oh sweetheart you now want to blame CHRISTIANITY? seriously? undecided

Actually Christianity has nothing to do with it rather the same Genesis, a mythological antiquity that you are here selling made that assertion where "Day and night got created in the first day and the sun on the fourth day"

This is what we get when 21st century beings base their thinking based on myths as stipulated by idiotic beliefs.

Christendom, not xtainity honey. Hahaha

Go and think the meaning of the phrase "in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth". That will clear u up

1 Like

Re: Amen....to This. by Nobody: 2:28pm On Sep 17, 2015
johnydon22:
Lmao. . Now looking for a rope to hang on?

It is now wikipedia is the subject of argument Uuuuuuuhm. . Thats so poor lady, just too poor..

Maybe in the future u ll understand. For now, keep viewing that source as accurate.

Now, if can go to the book "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - Revised Edition, check under Religion of Egypt, you ll see why such claimed monotheism is doubtful. If you ve read well, you will understand that emperors were worshiped as gods.

Don't limit yourself to wiki.

1 Like

(1) (2) (Reply)

What Can You Tell An Atheist To Believe There Is God? / Noah Ark Have Been Discover On The Mountains In Turkey. / Who Trnslated The Bible To Igbo Language For The First Time?

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 144
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.