burnt offerings also preceded the law since cain and abel offered burnt offering to God.why dont you continue with burnt offerings since it preceded the law? Anything other than continuing with burnt offerings would amount to hypocrisy

Image123:

@SirJohn
I'll choose not to fully answer your question,but let me give you one.
PEACE.I have peace that comes fromobeying God.Obviously even an onlooker can tell that anti-tithers are restless and,

lol, dont even waste your time Image123 cos you cant answer the question. You speak of peace, Oh I have it in abundance. Hundreds of people and counting are getting to know the truth, what more can I ask for; this is pure fulfilment

,

Hi all,
I have read thru d arguments both for & against tithing and it hurts that our christian faith or fate has to be debated. Its nobody's fault here though. Its not even the Pastors that propagate bad doctrine, its us. The Bible unlike the Quran was written in plain English with lots of translations and versions and then as a bonus, The Holy Spirit was also given to translate and interprete the scriptures to us individually. As if that was not enough, we were also forewarned that there will be false prophets and that each of us has to work out our salvation. On Our Own.

The issue of tithes is something i have been pondering on for a while now. I was happy to stumble upon this thread. The scriptures quoted here have clarified a lot of stuff for me. I remember once asking a Man Of God if I could give my tithe out to ppl in need and he said no. That i should bring it to Church then go back and parcel another gift for the poor. Now, I am some one who loves giving. i wish i could give more than I earn. It felt wrong for me. for a while i was doing that double giving until my Sister who by any standards is Born Again revealed truths to me. I am glad my eyes have been open and i can give freely.

The so-called tithers on this thread remind me of a catholic sister i had an argument with one day. She vehemently oposed everything i said but quoted no scripture to support her claims.

We know its ok to give. We know the bible commanded it. Its ok. But prove it. No, instead they are busy making foolish comments. Its obvious they are clearly brainwashed.

I am not saying you should/shouldnt pay tithes. I am only trying to say that what ever you decide to do, believe in it, check the scriptures, do not consult what ur pastor said or didnt say. Do the right thing. If you are  truly born again, the Holy Spirit will convince you of your choice.

|Hope to see you all in Heaven.

Image123:

@SirJohn
I'll choose not to fully answer your question,but let me give you one.
PEACE.I have peace that comes fromobeying God.Obviously even an onlooker can tell that anti-tithers are restless and,

I laugh with scorn at this delusion and foolishness cause as the bible says you are placing yourself under a curse:

Galatians 3:10-11:

  10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” 11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.

Galatians 5:4:
4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.

I am not only at peace but i rejoice in the freedom i have in christ: (Galatians 5:13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters) I also have a ministry, a burning zeal and desire to set other captive christians free from this evil yoke of tithes which some dis-honest preachers place on innocent christians cos as the good book says "ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" i am a vessel of communicating the truth to my fellow christians. the choice is yours to remain in bondage, under the law and all the curses that accompany it.

bloodred:

Hi all,
I have read thru d arguments both for & against tithing and it hurts that our christian faith or fate has to be debated. Its nobody's fault here though. Its not even the Pastors that propagate bad doctrine, its us. The Bible unlike the Quran was written in plain English with lots of translations and versions and then as a bonus, The Holy Spirit was also given to translate and interprete the scriptures to us individually. As if that was not enough, we were also forewarned that there will be false prophets and that each of us has to work out our salvation. On Our Own.

The issue of tithes is something i have been pondering on for a while now. I was happy to stumble upon this thread. The scriptures quoted here have clarified a lot of stuff for me. I remember once asking a Man Of God if I could give my tithe out to ppl in need and he said no. That i should bring it to Church then go back and parcel another gift for the poor. Now, I am some one who loves giving. i wish i could give more than I earn. It felt wrong for me. for a while i was doing that double giving until my Sister who by any standards is Born Again revealed truths to me. I am glad my eyes have been open and i can give freely.

The so-called tithers on this thread remind me of a catholic sister i had an argument with one day. She vehemently oposed everything i said but quoted no scripture to support her claims.

We know its ok to give. We know the bible commanded it. Its ok. But prove it. No, instead they are busy making foolish comments. Its obvious they are clearly brainwashed.

I am not saying you should/shouldnt pay tithes. I am only trying to say that what ever you decide to do, believe in it, check the scriptures, do not consult what ur pastor said or didnt say. Do the right thing. If you are truly born again, the Holy Spirit will convince you of your choice.

|Hope to see you all in Heaven.

hmm!

How did a pastor get 4 billion naira to buy a private jet? thithing ofcourse!!!

what in God's name is he doing with a private jet when there are many jobless and poor poeple in his fold. Imagine!!!!!!

This same pastor joins others in saying[b]" PAY YOUR THITHE OR THINGS WILL BE TIGHT FOR YOU"[/b]

i'd rather give more than 10% of my income to those who really need it than to these disco dancing, greesy haired, Prada wearing, fancy talking guys who claim to be men of God

By the way, the Pope flies Alitalia (commercial plane)

Lest i forget, the catholic church started christianity and compiled the books of the bible in the year 350AD. yet, they dont mandate the faithful to pay tithe.
Pastors make it look as if you're sinning by not giving them 10% of your income. they use it to enrich themselves, buy fancy cars and houses.
Religion is NOW the the most lucrative business in NIgeria
who wants to join me? we'll open a church.
Pay your tithe church of faith, inc.
I'll be the general overseer and treasurer

Jacob's vow was conditional, He said If God does this, then i will do this, And if God doesn't i will not

I'm sure this is the Obatoro amplified version of the scriptures in english of course.

Hmm, that trash again! Tithing preceeded the law, I've also said that many things preceeded the law. Twelve also preceeded the law.
When Martin Luther started bringing out some truths from the bible, these truths were contrary to the doctrine of the church in his time, he was excommunicated. But today see what we have!

I don't know how some of you guys do not follow discussion,but just jump in and pick words.The purpose why we say that tithing is before the law is not because everything before the law is right/wrong but because tithing is not under the law.Removing the law doesn't remove tithes because they were not born the same day.
KunleOshob and his friends don't seem to know the meaning of peace.
1Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
Like I said,I'm not here to force you to pay your tithes or do any of God's demands.It is not by force.People who are not free from sin are rejoicing about being free from 'giving' tithe or offering.Well its your choice.But saying that tithing is wrong is in itself wrong.that's what I stand against.And I don't think that there's a need for you to view others as under bondage.

@image123
why don't you continue with burnt ofrings since it preceded the law?

chukwudi44:

@image123
why don't you continue with burnt ofrings since it preceded the law?

. . . . Aahh yes, A pleasing odour to the Lord.

@image123

Image123:

I'm sure this is the Obatoro amplified version of the scriptures in english of course.
I don't know how some of you guys do not follow discussion,but just jump in and pick words.[/b]The purpose why we say that tithing is before the law is [b]not because everything before the law is right/wrong but because tithing is not under the law.Removing the law doesn't remove tithes because they were not born the same day.

Now we know who is not actually following discussion, and young man watch your choice of words. Nobody is jumping in and picking words check my earlier posts.

obatoro:

@image123Now we know who is not actually following discussion, and young man watch your choice of words. Nobody is jumping in and picking words check my earlier posts.

is it not image123? his penchant for distorting and manipulating the scriptures is legendary. Yet he constantly hypocritically accuses does that say the truth of distorting scriptures.

@Image 123
I hope you have prayed to God for forgiveness for adding to his word in Hebrews 7:15 to avoid the curses stated in revelations from falling on you.

@KunleOshob
Mr. Kunle how u dey? Long time no chat.
You're still talking about not paying tithe up till now.

obinna5000:

@KunleOshob
Mr. Kunle how u dey? Long time no chat.
You're still talking about not paying tithe up till now.

dont mind kunle and his small mind. christians having finance to do what he never dreamt a christian could do upsets him. yet he doesn't have problem with obasanjo and his pdp theives stealing money. shows you the kind of slow poison religion some people caught.

@Obinna5000
How now? I dey oh, i can never stop telling people the truth about tithes it is my christian duty to do so. We must rise up and drive away deception, falsehood and greed from our churches and set churches back to the way of christ.

@JJyou
What is worse? stealing God's money (stealing in the name of God) or stealing man's money. That is apart from the fact that i do not appreciate your penchant for insults. I don't have any problems with christians having money cause i am also well to do by the special grace of God. What i can't stick is so called christian preachers using God's name to extort money from innocent christians,

KunleOshob:

@Obinna5000
How now? I dey oh, i can never stop telling people the truth about tithes it is my christian duty to do so. We must rise up and drive away deception, falsehood and greed from our churches and set churches back to the way of christ.

@JJyou
What is worse? stealing God's money (stealing in the name of God) or stealing man's money. That is apart from the fact that i do not appreciate your penchant for insults. I don't have any problems with christians having money cause i am also well to do by the special grace of God. What i can't stick is so called christian preachers using God's name to extort money from innocent christians,

didnt know theives have honour in your book.  theives are wicked taking what does not belong to them it doesnt matter whose money.  are you well to do by the grace of obasanjo's pdp or the God His people are scum of the earth to you and your league? how come you are the only person permitted to do well in your little corner of christianity?

i do not appreciate your penchant for insults

where are the insults?  is it anywhere near the vernom you throw on oyedepo, chris oyakhilome and adeboye?  remember God said 1 Kings 19 (New Living Translation)

14 He replied again, “I have zealously served the Lord God Almighty. But the people of Israel have broken their covenant with you, torn down your altars, and killed every one of your prophets. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me, too.”

15 Then the Lord told him, “Go back the same way you came, and travel to the wilderness of Damascus. When you arrive there, anoint Hazael to be king of Aram. 16 Then anoint Jehu son of Nimshi to be king of Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from the town of Abel-meholah to replace you as my prophet. 17 Anyone who escapes from Hazael will be killed by Jehu, and those who escape Jehu will be killed by Elisha! 18[b] Yet I will preserve 7,000 others in Israel who have never bowed down to Baal or kissed him![/b]”

the church of God is a broad church.  bigger than you and your myopic views.

Jesus Christ save us from this bickering!

'For tithers' & 'against tithers' REALLY hope to see y'all at the END with CHRIST.

That's the common hope, I hope.

Please let's work out our respective salvations, because finally it's not about whether or not you brought tithe or paid tithe o!

All ye CHRISTIANS (tithe bingers, payers and non-tithers alike), biko turn your attention to GOD!

@JJYOU
It is now very obvious to me that you are mentally deluded freak whois just seeking attention, hence forth i would seize to engage in dialogue with someone who has a peanut sized brianed. I thought you had a chance but now it is obvious to me that your soul is completely sold to the devil.

KunleOshob:

@JJYOU
It is now very obvious to me that you are mentally deluded freak whois just seeking attention, hence forth i would seize to engage in dialogue with someone who has a peanut sized brianed. I thought you had a chance but now it is obvious to me that your soul is completely sold to the devil.

save your ill gotten money  you may need it in purgatory.  the more you get exposed the more you show your stupidity. religious and political wicked man. enjoy your stollen loot becos it would soon be taken away from you.

henriee:

Jesus Christ save us from this bickering!

'For tithers' & 'against tithers' REALLY hope to see y'all at the END with CHRIST.

That's the common hope, I hope.

Please let's work out our respective salvations, because finally it's not about whether or not you brought tithe or paid tithe o!

All ye CHRISTIANS (tithe bingers, payers and non-tithers alike), biko turn your attention to GOD!

how can some people turn to God when obasanjo and his pdp are now god to them?

@image123
you were caught in your glib misquoting of scripture, you fled for some time hoping we will forget now you are back trying to sell a damaged concept peddled by damaging business men and believed by brain damaged humans too lazy to take responsibility for themselves.

On the other hand your pastor will really love you because you are what every business man dreams of- loyal die hard repeat customer who swears by a useless product!
If i were u i will quietly sneak away and submit myself to the shearer to continue his fleecing business!

stanloski:

@image123
you were caught in your glib misquoting of scripture, you fled for some time hoping we will forget now you are back trying to sell a damaged concept peddled by damaging business men and believed by brain damaged humans too lazy to take responsibility for themselves.

On the other hand [b]your pastor will really love you b[/b]ecause you are what every business man dreams of- loyal die hard repeat customer who swears by a useless product!
If i were u i will quietly sneak away and submit myself to the shearer to continue his fleecing business!

I suspect very strongly that he is either a tithe preaching pastor himself or he one way benefits from the filthy lucre named tithes. Most of his accomplice that used to debate this issue of tithes with me a year ago have now seen the light and are no longer in bondage, but image123 with all the overwhelming evidence against tithes is actually twisting scripture and sinfully adding to the bible to justify this evil. he most certainly must be a beneficiary of the filth.

KunleOshob:

I suspect very strongly that he is either a tithe preaching pastor himself or he one way benefits from the filthy lucre named tithes. Most of his accomplice that [b]used to debate this issue of tithes with me a year ago [/b]have now seen the light and are no longer in bondage, but image123 with all the overwhelming evidence against tithes is actually twisting scripture and sinfully adding to the bible to justify this evil. he most certainly must be a beneficiary of the filth.

A year ago! You mean this issue has been dragging since last year!!! I think that is even before I discovered Nairaland.

Pastor AIO:

A year ago!  You mean this issue has been dragging since last year!!! I think that is even before I discovered Nairaland.

Yeah i first posted my article on tithes https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html on the 15th of february 2008 and image123 was one of the active early contributors to the thread defending tithes. Most of his conconspirators have since seen the light and are now free from the guilt trap of tithes imposed on them. A number of them have even sent me private e-mails thanking me for showing them the light with irrefutable bible based evidence.

@kunleosob

KunleOshob:

I suspect very strongly that he is either a tithe preaching pastor himself or he one way benefits from the filthy lucre named tithes. Most of his accomplice that used to debate this issue of tithes with me a year ago have now seen the light and are no longer in bondage, but image123 with all the overwhelming evidence against tithes is actually twisting scripture and sinfully adding to the bible to justify this evil. he most certainly must be a beneficiary of the filth.

My dear brother he that hath an ear, let him hear!
Do you know that some people are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah up till now?, when Jesus had already come and ascended! some people still believe that the earth is flat till today.(the flat earth association in America).
I wonder why those who tithe still borrow money from us non tithers anyway?

@chukwudi44

@image123
why don't you continue with burnt ofrings since it preceded the law?

I think I've seen this question earlier,anyway,I'll take it.Like I've said,tithing was practiced bfore the law,therefore we can't quote scriptures that say that the law is no more in effect, and then class tithing as under the law.Removing the law doesn't remove tithes because they were not born the same day.I never suggested that we should do every thing that was done before the law.Someone might soon ask about building an ark.They've talked about no 12 already.We don't offer burnt offerings simply because our priest has offered it for us once and for all,so we've offered it technically.

Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and[b] burnt offerings [/b] and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.



@kunleOshob

is it not image123? his penchant for distorting and manipulating the scriptures is legendary. Yet he constantly hypocritically accuses does that say the truth of distorting scriptures.

You keep repeating this accusations after most of my posts,but hardly do I accuse you of such.Maybe your conscience does anyway,and you thought it was me.
Matthew 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Did you see your name in that text?

It is now very obvious to me that you are mentally deluded freak whois just seeking attention, hence forth i would seize to engage in dialogue with someone who has a peanut sized brianed. I thought you had a chance but now it is obvious to me that your soul is completely sold to the devil.

Should a follower of Christ really say these quoted to anyone?These are KunleOshob's words to JJYOU.Kunle,this is terrible and its not your first.I've read worse from you.Even if I should drop my Bible and apply common sense to choose whether to 'give' tithe or not,I'll look at the anti-tithers ' corner and see the likes of KunleOshob,huxley and other atheists,many defiant sinners and some professing 'chritians' and then I'll look at the tithers corner and I see wonderful people,some that I may not even completely agree with their stands on some issues,but who are challenging examples.I see Charles Spurgeon and Smith Wigglesworth and John Wesley and Kenneth Hagin of Rhema,and David Cho and David Oyedepo of Living Faith and Chris Oyakhilome and William Kumuyi of Deeper Life, and Gbile Akanni and Enoch Adeboye of Redeemed church, and Olukoya of Mountain of Fire and they are all of tithe inspite of their seeming differences.Immediately,I should know who to follow just by common sense.And I'm wondering who is likely to be in front of these two lines,is it God or Satan?Then I join the right line.I will not be a foolish virgin.

@henriee

Jesus Christ save us from this bickering!

'For tithers' & 'against tithers' REALLY hope to see y'all at the END with CHRIST.

That's the common hope, I hope.

Please let's work out our respective salvations, because finally it's not about whether or not you brought tithe or paid tithe o!

All ye CHRISTIANS (tithe bingers, payers and non-tithers alike), biko turn your attention to GOD!

Unfortunately,seeing us all at the end with Christ doesn't appear to be the common hope.Many of the anti-tithers consider tithers as great sinners,under yoke and serious curse of the law.Also they're very restless and have made a big deal out of the issue of tithes than can be imagined.

I suspect very strongly that he is either a tithe preaching pastor himself or he one way benefits from the filthy lucre named tithes. Most of his accomplice that used to debate this issue of tithes with me a year ago have now seen the light and are no longer in bondage, but image123 with all the overwhelming evidence against tithes is actually twisting scripture and sinfully adding to the bible to justify this evil. he most certainly must be a beneficiary of the filth.

May God not permit me to be led away with the error of the wicked.Amen. Where are the overwhelming evidences?Is it your vague reasoning in Malachi1-3 or Deuteronmy12,14 or Hebrews7.Which one have you not avoided my replies to by dancing around to some so called next point and then going some days later to quote the same scriptures to another new person.Your sins are already finding you out like a birthday garment.May God help you.Amen

Image123:

@henrieeUnfortunately,seeing us all at the end with Christ doesn't appear to be the common hope.Many of the anti-tithers consider tithers as great sinners,under yoke and serious curse of the law.Also they're very restless and have made a big deal out of the issue of tithes than can be imagined.

@Image123,
Nobody has said that tithers will go to hell, neither have we said that they are great sinners. I am particularly against ministers shoving the tithe doctrine down the throat of their members, making them feel guilty for non compliance when the word of God does not teach thus.
I've been there so I know what I'm talking about; for instance in christ embassy and some other churches that I know, members who do not pay tithe or are inconsistent in doing so for whatever reason find it difficult to get assistance from the church whenever they are in need of such.

One of the criteria for having an appointment with a christ embassy pastor is that you have to be a tither. they would usually not spell it out okay but if a pastor is told that someone wants to see him, he would usually request for the persons financial records from his staff, if the person falls short of what he expects, he would either not honour the appointment or he would send someone else to the guy.

This is evil in black and white and some people are expecting us to keep quiet

@sting_224
Whatever is done in wherever church doesn't nullify the facts of the originality and goodness of tithing.It is like they say 'throwing the baby out of the basin with the dirty water'.

Image123:

@sting_224
Whatever is done in wherever church doesn't nullify the facts of the originality and goodness of tithing.It is like they say 'throwing the baby out of the basin with the dirty water'.

Noted some errors in the above so i have taken liberty to help you correct them

Whatever is done in wherever church doesn't nullify the facts of the imposition and evil of tithing.It is like they say 'swallowing a bait hook, line and sinker'.

@ Topic,
Hmm, people are still waging "Holy War" on this issue of whether to tithe or not (hope we don't get any suicide bombers ).

Whatever side of the fence you're on concerning this issue, let's know that it's not the most important thing about Christianity. Moreover everyone should have a right to do what they want with their hard-earned or (easily-stolen cash as the case may be ).

IMHO this is just one of such cases of "doubtful disputations" that Paul was talking about. Let's put this issue behind us already. As long as you're saved by the blood of the Lamb we're brothers. Let me give my 10% and you use yours however you like. JESUS is still LORD!!!

grand jedi:


Whatever side of the fence you're on concerning this issue, let's know that it's not the most important thing about Christianity. Moreover everyone should have a right to do what they want with their hard-earned or (easily-stolen cash as the case may be ).

I would have been fooled. The way it is preached from the pulpit you would think it were the only important thing about christianity. The way it is being defended you would think it were the cornerstone of christianity.

That you have the right to do what you want with your cash is not the issue. The issue is that it is taught as a cash offering not a food offering and as a central christian practice that will cause God to bless you. The issue is that scriptures are being twisted to facilitate this extortion. If you choose to give me your money then that is up to you, however if you've given me your money on account of a lie that I've told you then that is extortion. That is theft. Most churches are practicing theft on a grand scale. THAT is the point!